[$XVG] VERGE [POW][MultiAlgo][TOR/i2P][no premine/ico!]

[5trade]

where is all the power coming from?  everybody left supanova? 

[saymissme]

where is all the power coming from?  everybody left supanova? 

wait multi-algo switch

[Zedux]

where is all the power coming from?  everybody left supanova?  

wait multi-algo switch

I've suggested dev Verge smoothing out inflation. For those who don't know Bitcoin is discussing doing the same thing.

[bitspill]

I've suggested dev Verge smoothing out inflation. For those who don't know Bitcoin is discussing doing the same thing.

*citation needed*

[Zedux]

I've suggested dev Verge smoothing out inflation. For those who don't know Bitcoin is discussing doing the same thing.

*citation needed*

Yep around 1500 coins per block and longer period of time. Specially now with MA with algos like X17 we need to give more time and smooth inflation. Let's see if that can happen.

[juanp11]

I've suggested dev Verge smoothing out inflation. For those who don't know Bitcoin is discussing doing the same thing.

*citation needed*

Yep around 1500 coins per block and longer period of time. Specially now with MA with algos like X17 we need to give more time and smooth inflation. Let's see if that can happen.

If my math was/is not off, it might be, but I roughed out block halving timeline when I decided to invest in the coin, around August of this year the block reward was supposed to drop to 1560 (blocks 714,000 to 2,124,000) and last around 490 days. (Of course that is going to take longer given the network hang ups and assuming that I correct about block halving....)

Sometime in April of this year, the block reward dropping to 6250 (378,000 to 546,000: 6,250)... so why not drop it to 1560, then? I think it is worth considering, given the hard fork coming up... like others, I bet.

[TheSignsGuy]

I don't know if any other currencies are doing this, but "smoothing out" the halving reward schedule might be interesting to consider.
The total amount of coins mined could still hit the on the regular dates/blocks of the original schedule, but on a more gradual decrease.
Newcomers might be more interested in mining, and a gradual decrease may make things smoother in regard to possible jumps in price before/during/after block reward halvening.
I saw another mention something like this for another coin and made me think that others may consider it an option also.
Since we are going for quite a major change with the MultiAlgo, thought I would bring this up.

[bitLeap]

I've suggested dev Verge smoothing out inflation. For those who don't know Bitcoin is discussing doing the same thing.

*citation needed*

Yep around 1500 coins per block and longer period of time. Specially now with MA with algos like X17 we need to give more time and smooth inflation. Let's see if that can happen.

If my math was/is not off, it might be, but I roughed out block halving timeline when I decided to invest in the coin, around August of this year the block reward was supposed to drop to 1560 (blocks 714,000 to 2,124,000) and last around 490 days. (Of course that is going to take longer given the network hang ups and assuming that I correct about block halving....)

Sometime in April of this year, the block reward dropping to 6250 (378,000 to 546,000: 6,250)... so why not drop it to 1560, then? I think it is worth considering, given the hard fork coming up... like others, I bet.

I really like that too.

Verge could go...

Block Time: 10 seconds
Block Rewards: 520

Faster blocks but maintain 1560 avg every 30 secs. Any way you look at it its a win-win for Verge. Miners help secure the network as volunteers also expecting on future price increases and avoid predatory mining.

[wttbs]

Some info about the algorithms:

Quark
Quark is super secure and uses a different hashing algorithm with 9 rounds of hashing from 6 unique hashing functions (blake, groestl, blue midnight wish, jh, SHA-3, skein). 3 rounds deliver a random hashing function. Even though most believe the SHA2 is sufficient at present, technology is always changing and improving. Just one of Quark's algos, SHA-3, was developed after SHA-2 in case it was somehow comprised in the future. The multiple hash gives a further layer of security against unknowns that will enter the market down the road. Only CPU mined

Groestl
The design of Grøstl is transparent and based on principles very different from those used in the SHA-family.The two permutations used are constructed using the wide trail design strategy, which makes it possible to give strong statements about the resistance of Grøstl against large classes of cryptanalytic attacks. Moreover, if these permutations are assumed to be ideal, there is a proof for the security of the hash function.
Can and is accelerated by the hardware AES support present in most modern Intel CPUs, which helps reduce the efficiency gap between a CPU and other implementations. Groestl (old GPU/CPU) – Groestl makes a wide range of tradeoffs between throughput, latency, and power consumption. Because of this, groestl uses less power per hash than other algos. Due to the less complex hashing, Groestl performs well on older GPU’s as well as CPU’s.
tech info: http://www.groestl.info/Groestl.pdf

Blake2s
The Blake2s algorithm is a new entry in the crypto mining scene and while initially there was only CPU mining support available for it now there is also a ccMiner fork with support for Blake2s algorithm on Nvidia GPUs (source). The initial CPU mining support for Blake2s was first introduced in cpumuiner-multi from tpruvot, though there is now a new more-efficient CPU miner available here. With the release of a GPU miner however CPU mining might be not worth it anymore, even though for the moment there is only GPU mining available for Nvidia-based video cards and no for AMD, but soon we are probably going to see Blake2s supported on AMD as well.
full info: https://blake2.net/#sp

X17
No much recent info, most is from 2014   it's GPU based mining. You can use SGminer with -X17 option: https://github.com/LordzS/sgminer-x17

scrypt
well known. info: https://litecoin.info/Scrypt
You can use GPU's or Scrypt-miners.

lyra2rev2
a proof-of-work algorithm. GPU mining. Can be used by SGminer as well.
extra info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertcoin

Neoscrypt
NeoScrypt is CPU and GPU mining
extra info: http://www.feathercoin.com/neo-scrypt-press-release.pdf

Thanks for the post mate, sorry for the late response on this.. crazy day at work and updating Altcoinrenegade.com

I'll be taking this information and expanding on it on my site. I will give you post credit when I publish it.

Cheers
Rekt

Hello Rekt,

You don't have to credit me  I just searched for info on the internet and took info from several websites, posts, forums, wikipedia and stuff. I haven't written it my self.

[Dogedarkdev]

well, when i briefly said on here once, that i could change/lower the reward system, i got hell for it on twitter.. so im not sure if its a great idea.. but we can keep discussing it if thats what everyone wants.

im removing the poll now, since we have a clear winner on algos.

scrypt, x17, lyra2rev2, blake2s, groestl has won by a landslide.


 

[bitLeap]

well, when i briefly said on here once, that i could change/lower the reward system, i got hell for it on twitter.. so im not sure if its a great idea.. but we can keep discussing it if thats what everyone wants.

im removing the poll now, since we have a clear winner on algos.

scrypt, x17, lyra2rev2, blake2s, groestl has won by a landslide.

I remember people were thinking the supply was going to increase . I'm sure (I would assume) 10/10 people here would agree with the following...

Block Time: 10 seconds
Block Rewards: 520
And extend number of blocks

This way as posted by others will smooth and tackle abrupt inflationary pressures.

Btw congratulations now Verge is also the most decentralized crypto-currency!

[Dogedarkdev]

well, when i briefly said on here once, that i could change/lower the reward system, i got hell for it on twitter.. so im not sure if its a great idea.. but we can keep discussing it if thats what everyone wants.

im removing the poll now, since we have a clear winner on algos.

scrypt, x17, lyra2rev2, blake2s, groestl has won by a landslide.

I remember people were thinking the supply was going to increase . I'm sure (I would assume) 10/10 people here would agree with the following...

Block Time: 10 seconds
Block Rewards: 520
And extend number of blocks

This way as posted by others will smooth and tackle abrupt inflationary pressures.

Btw congratulations now Verge is also the most decentralized crypto-currency!

i put up a poll, and ill choose it later today based on results.

[juanp11]

well, when i briefly said on here once, that i could change/lower the reward system, i got hell for it on twitter.. so im not sure if its a great idea.. but we can keep discussing it if thats what everyone wants.

im removing the poll now, since we have a clear winner on algos.

scrypt, x17, lyra2rev2, blake2s, groestl has won by a landslide.


 

I seen the heck you got over the mention of the idea...  That said maybe they have different visions of what this coin could be (mine one block a day and have ten BTC when it goes up or something like that). We all speculate like that, I suppose.


However, as a practical matter, I see Verge being used for things like paying for file hosting services, legal adult websites (Have a Naughty Urge, use Verge) and torrent subscription sites.... well you get the picture... my point is that the coin cannot be used for these things until the kinks are ironed out, well it could... but vendors might be more inclined to employ the coin if transactions were faster, perhaps.

Faster block times would be great, from a transactions perspective, no doubt. I assume that ten second blocks are feasible or a good goal to shoot for since payment systems need to be nearly real time, I think (I never bought into those news articles, reports about how Bitcoins long transaction time (sometimes) lead to more sales... way too pie in the sky). Frankly, in five years, when the novelty of block chain currencies have worn off and coins have matured, can anyone say that it will be "acceptable" to have to wait an hour even even six minutes for a block chain transaction to be verified?


As to reducing the reward to 1560 per block, at current values

187200-coins an hour@ 0.00000026 sat = 0.048672 BTC per hour

4492800-coins per day @ 0.00000026 = 1.168128 BTC per day

which would make this coin significantly undervalued, which might lead to some dumps in the short term but I think the market could absorb it. You could argue it is undervalued now, since

36000000-coins per day @ 0.00000026 = 9.36 BTC per day

and we are seeing 25 to 30 BTC in volume a day on Bittrex ... so there is lots of demand and not enough supply or whatever.... On the other hand,  perhaps, we should be asking ourselves if we want to move to a block reward that might be more conducive to actual transactions, eventually, versus the rather massive rewards, right now since it makes me, (and others, maybe) think that Verge could be viewed as a tipping coin, which is sort of bad, I think.


Lastly, I think of Verge as being a 10 cent coin, in five to ten years or 52 dollars a block is not a bad reward, in my head, if you held it that long. Heck, even a penny would not be a horrible value from a mining perspective.

[Zedux]

The idea that this is even being considered is troubling. Only if it is exactly proportional enabling shorter block times; not to change inflationary pressures. This is one thing that kills coins and deserves a load of bad feedback on Twitter if not proportionally implemented to reflect the current block time schedule.

I don't think you got it properly the final amount of coins will be exactly the same it's not like Neucoin where they sliced supply 1/3 which helped their price a lot. We are not looking into reducing the total supply just make block rewards smoother which also will make the network more stable. Bitcoin is considering that it's almost going to happen to them. The only losers here are dumpers who will eventually regret. We need an entire community working together Miners are part of the community most coins now days simply ignore them for this exact reason they are not partners so Verge miners as partners will mine and Verge will become even stronger.

[bitLeap]

Faster block times would be great, from a transactions perspective, no doubt. I assume that ten second blocks are feasible or a good goal to shoot for since payment systems need to be nearly real time, I think (I never bought into those news articles, reports about how Bitcoins long transaction time (sometimes) lead to more sales... way too pie in the sky). Frankly, in five years, when the novelty of block chain currencies have worn off and coins have matured, can anyone say that it will be "acceptable" to have to wait an hour even even six minutes for a block chain transaction to be verified?

That's why 10 seconds would be nice would be another great feature.

[Zedux]

The idea that this is even being considered is troubling. Only if it is exactly proportional enabling shorter block times; not to change inflationary pressures. This is one thing that kills coins and deserves a load of bad feedback on Twitter if not proportionally implemented to reflect the current block time schedule.

I don't think you got it properly the final amount of coins will be exactly the same it's not like Neucoin where they sliced supply 1/3 which helped their price a lot. We are not looking into reducing the total supply just make block rewards smoother which also will make the network more stable. Bitcoin is considering that it's almost going to happen to them. The only losers here are dumpers who will eventually regret. We need an entire community working together Miners are part of the community most coins now days simply ignore them for this exact reason they are not partners so Verge miners as partners will mine and Verge will become even stronger.

I never mentioned the total supply. The only way this works without somebody who invested early hashpower losing is if it occurs with the same schedule divided over exactly proportional smaller increments (i.e. 10 seconds per block, divide reward by 3).

Maybe the community vote to keep as it is but the only winners will be miners who continue to dump for anyprice they can get. The amount of coins being mined are overwhelming and it's crashing and will always crash Verge with current inflation supply is not the matter the inflation is just to high. I don't see anyone but big miners wanting to keep as it's is. With the multialgo everyone would be prepared to mine it with smoother blocks.

[Dogedarkdev]

right now, in our specs, its 30 seconds, 12,500 xvg per block. of course, difficulty affects this greatly. which is why no coin has exact timing specs actually occuring. i could see keeping the reward schedule identical, but changing the 30 seconds to 10 seconds, however 12,500 isnt divisible by 3. you'd get 4166.666666666667 which just doesnt work. however, 15 seconds, with 6,250 does work. ill add that to the poll, reset, and see how it fairs.

[Zedux]

right now, in our specs, its 30 seconds, 12,500 xvg per block. of course, difficulty affects this greatly. which is why no coin has exact timing specs actually occuring. i could see keeping the reward schedule identical, but changing the 30 seconds to 10 seconds, however 12,500 isnt divisible by 3. you'd get 4166.666666666667 which just doesnt work. however, 15 seconds, with 6,250 does work. ill add that to the poll, reset, and see how it fairs.

this give us the same exact inflation main problem is inflation as it is. maybe keep de 10 seconds 520 xvg option in the new poll?! In the last poll 70% wanted less inflation smoother blocks.

p.s. 5 secs blocks are even better (260 xvg per block)

[Dogedarkdev]

right now, in our specs, its 30 seconds, 12,500 xvg per block. of course, difficulty affects this greatly. which is why no coin has exact timing specs actually occuring. i could see keeping the reward schedule identical, but changing the 30 seconds to 10 seconds, however 12,500 isnt divisible by 3. you'd get 4166.666666666667 which just doesnt work. however, 15 seconds, with 6,250 does work. ill add that to the poll, reset, and see how it fairs.

this give us the same exact inflation main problem is inflation as it is. maybe keep de 10 seconds 520 xvg option in the new poll?! In the last poll 70% wanted less inflation smoother blocks.

you cant just change the amount of coins though, without pissing off the portion of the community that isnt sitting on tens of millions of coins, and wants to mine and get more before halvings. i honestly cant think of anything that would be more unfair..

edit: thought of something even more unfair, also adding PoS, so baghodlers get even richer.

[Zedux]

right now, in our specs, its 30 seconds, 12,500 xvg per block. of course, difficulty affects this greatly. which is why no coin has exact timing specs actually occuring. i could see keeping the reward schedule identical, but changing the 30 seconds to 10 seconds, however 12,500 isnt divisible by 3. you'd get 4166.666666666667 which just doesnt work. however, 15 seconds, with 6,250 does work. ill add that to the poll, reset, and see how it fairs.

this give us the same exact inflation main problem is inflation as it is. maybe keep de 10 seconds 520 xvg option in the new poll?! In the last poll 70% wanted less inflation smoother blocks.

you cant just change the amount of coins though, without pissing off the portion of the community that isnt sitting on tens of millions of coins, and wants to mine and get more before halvings. i honestly cant think of anything that would be more unfair..

edit: thought of something even more unfair, also adding PoS, so baghodlers get even richer.

you are not changing the amount of coins that will be mined you are smoothing the total coins per block adding more future blocks. I think the only people that will be pissed is a handful of miners who are not exactly thinking as a community. You can run a poll with these options and let the community decide as you saw 70% voted for smoother inflation.