[$XVG] VERGE [POW][MultiAlgo][TOR/i2P][no premine/ico!]

[bitLeap]

right now, in our specs, its 30 seconds, 12,500 xvg per block. of course, difficulty affects this greatly. which is why no coin has exact timing specs actually occuring. i could see keeping the reward schedule identical, but changing the 30 seconds to 10 seconds, however 12,500 isnt divisible by 3. you'd get 4166.666666666667 which just doesnt work. however, 15 seconds, with 6,250 does work. ill add that to the poll, reset, and see how it fairs.

this give us the same exact inflation main problem is inflation as it is. maybe keep de 10 seconds 520 xvg option in the new poll?! In the last poll 70% wanted less inflation smoother blocks.

you cant just change the amount of coins though, without pissing off the portion of the community that isnt sitting on tens of millions of coins, and wants to mine and get more before halvings. i honestly cant think of anything that would be more unfair..

edit: thought of something even more unfair, also adding PoS, so baghodlers get even richer.

you are not changing the amount of coins that will be mined you are smoothing the total coins per block adding more future blocks. I think the only people that will be pissed is a handful of miners who are not exactly thinking as a community. You can run a poll with these options and let the community decide as you saw 70% voted for smoother inflation.

Dev I agree with this post coins will remain the same amount the first poll had all options possible not sure why you removed it.

[Zedux]

right now, in our specs, its 30 seconds, 12,500 xvg per block. of course, difficulty affects this greatly. which is why no coin has exact timing specs actually occuring. i could see keeping the reward schedule identical, but changing the 30 seconds to 10 seconds, however 12,500 isnt divisible by 3. you'd get 4166.666666666667 which just doesnt work. however, 15 seconds, with 6,250 does work. ill add that to the poll, reset, and see how it fairs.

this give us the same exact inflation main problem is inflation as it is. maybe keep de 10 seconds 520 xvg option in the new poll?! In the last poll 70% wanted less inflation smoother blocks.

you cant just change the amount of coins though, without pissing off the portion of the community that isnt sitting on tens of millions of coins, and wants to mine and get more before halvings. i honestly cant think of anything that would be more unfair..

edit: thought of something even more unfair, also adding PoS, so baghodlers get even richer.

you are not changing the amount of coins that will be mined you are smoothing the total coins per block adding more future blocks. I think the only people that will be pissed is a handful of miners who are not exactly thinking as a community. You can run a poll with these options and let the community decide as you saw 70% voted for smoother inflation.

How do you not understand this is stealing?

Stealing whom? Please elaborate. The number of coins will not be reduced or increased and everyone who has coins will continue to have their coins. I don't see anyone else objecting smoothing inflation.

[Zedux]

right now, in our specs, its 30 seconds, 12,500 xvg per block. of course, difficulty affects this greatly. which is why no coin has exact timing specs actually occuring. i could see keeping the reward schedule identical, but changing the 30 seconds to 10 seconds, however 12,500 isnt divisible by 3. you'd get 4166.666666666667 which just doesnt work. however, 15 seconds, with 6,250 does work. ill add that to the poll, reset, and see how it fairs.

this give us the same exact inflation main problem is inflation as it is. maybe keep de 10 seconds 520 xvg option in the new poll?! In the last poll 70% wanted less inflation smoother blocks.

you cant just change the amount of coins though, without pissing off the portion of the community that isnt sitting on tens of millions of coins, and wants to mine and get more before halvings. i honestly cant think of anything that would be more unfair..

edit: thought of something even more unfair, also adding PoS, so baghodlers get even richer.

you are not changing the amount of coins that will be mined you are smoothing the total coins per block adding more future blocks. I think the only people that will be pissed is a handful of miners who are not exactly thinking as a community. You can run a poll with these options and let the community decide as you saw 70% voted for smoother inflation.

How do you not understand this is stealing?

Stealing whom? Please elaborate. The number of coins will not be reduced or increased and everyone who has coins will continue to have their coins. I don't see anyone else objecting smoothing inflation.

Because miners who invested in rigs for DOGED/XVG will have their investment pay off much later if at all, and investors who bought early to bring the price up to bring miners on board will lose those miners if their reward decreases. Hashrate drops and resources that were allocated efficiently become misallocated in favor of newer miners and newer investors.

That's exactly what I guessed!

Are we looking here the interest of a few miners and miners only? Is this what is becoming??? Which btw are free to mine any coin and overlook an entire community??? Btw you also opposed a name change to the coin not sure I assume you mine wait the highs and sell over and over again.

[Zedux]

right now, in our specs, its 30 seconds, 12,500 xvg per block. of course, difficulty affects this greatly. which is why no coin has exact timing specs actually occuring. i could see keeping the reward schedule identical, but changing the 30 seconds to 10 seconds, however 12,500 isnt divisible by 3. you'd get 4166.666666666667 which just doesnt work. however, 15 seconds, with 6,250 does work. ill add that to the poll, reset, and see how it fairs.

this give us the same exact inflation main problem is inflation as it is. maybe keep de 10 seconds 520 xvg option in the new poll?! In the last poll 70% wanted less inflation smoother blocks.

you cant just change the amount of coins though, without pissing off the portion of the community that isnt sitting on tens of millions of coins, and wants to mine and get more before halvings. i honestly cant think of anything that would be more unfair..

edit: thought of something even more unfair, also adding PoS, so baghodlers get even richer.

I can not agree by any means that by the will of a single miner who is complaining you pulled the poll when most were happy and 70% already asked for smoother inflation.

[juanp11]

right now, in our specs, its 30 seconds, 12,500 xvg per block. of course, difficulty affects this greatly. which is why no coin has exact timing specs actually occuring. i could see keeping the reward schedule identical, but changing the 30 seconds to 10 seconds, however 12,500 isnt divisible by 3. you'd get 4166.666666666667 which just doesnt work. however, 15 seconds, with 6,250 does work. ill add that to the poll, reset, and see how it fairs.

this give us the same exact inflation main problem is inflation as it is. maybe keep de 10 seconds 520 xvg option in the new poll?! In the last poll 70% wanted less inflation smoother blocks.

you cant just change the amount of coins though, without pissing off the portion of the community that isnt sitting on tens of millions of coins, and wants to mine and get more before halvings. i honestly cant think of anything that would be more unfair..

edit: thought of something even more unfair, also adding PoS, so baghodlers get even richer.

you are not changing the amount of coins that will be mined you are smoothing the total coins per block adding more future blocks. I think the only people that will be pissed is a handful of miners who are not exactly thinking as a community. You can run a poll with these options and let the community decide as you saw 70% voted for smoother inflation.

How do you not understand this is stealing?

Stealing whom? Please elaborate. The number of coins will not be reduced or increased and everyone who has coins will continue to have their coins. I don't see anyone else objecting smoothing inflation.

Because miners who invested in rigs for DOGED/XVG will have their investment pay off much later if at all, and investors who bought early to bring the price up to bring miners on board will lose those miners if their reward decreases. Hashrate drops and resources that were allocated efficiently become misallocated in favor of newer miners and newer investors.

This is the point of Satoshi making Bitcoin a fixed rate of supply increase. Changing supply changes how people will invest in that resource.

It also sets the precedent that it may be changed on some other future whim arbitrarily. This goes against the principles Bitcoin was built upon.

Stealing is subjective and so is coin supply, apparently, since no one has said they wanted wanted reduction in overall supply of Verge, I thought. I believe we were talking about a reduction in reward, "smoothing" even you, frankly, if I am correct. My assumption that the block halves based on block numbers, not coins.... To that end,  I am going by blockexperts current block number which says that there are 297724 and the next halving occurs at block 378,000

Original Block times
80276 left before the halving with 30 second block times. That is roughly 2880 blocks a day which equals 28 days of mining give or take a few days.  Total coins to be mined before the next halving 2880x12500x28=1008000000

15 second block times
80276 left before the halving with 15 second block times. That is roughly 5760 blocks a day which equals 14 days of mining give or take a few days. Total coins to be mined before the next halving  5760x6250x14=504000000

5  second block times, your proposal, I think.
80276 left before the halving with 5 second block times. That is roughly 14400 blocks a day which equals 6 days of mining give or take a few days. Total coins to be mined before the next halving  14400x2500x6=216000000

Granted, I know that you probably mean that you wanted to adjust the block halving numbers to make your idea consistent with Satoshi and not reduce the rewards sooner...and such....

[Zedux]

right now, in our specs, its 30 seconds, 12,500 xvg per block. of course, difficulty affects this greatly. which is why no coin has exact timing specs actually occuring. i could see keeping the reward schedule identical, but changing the 30 seconds to 10 seconds, however 12,500 isnt divisible by 3. you'd get 4166.666666666667 which just doesnt work. however, 15 seconds, with 6,250 does work. ill add that to the poll, reset, and see how it fairs.

this give us the same exact inflation main problem is inflation as it is. maybe keep de 10 seconds 520 xvg option in the new poll?! In the last poll 70% wanted less inflation smoother blocks.

you cant just change the amount of coins though, without pissing off the portion of the community that isnt sitting on tens of millions of coins, and wants to mine and get more before halvings. i honestly cant think of anything that would be more unfair..

edit: thought of something even more unfair, also adding PoS, so baghodlers get even richer.

I can not agree by any means that by the will of a single miner who is complaining you pulled the poll when most were happy and 70% already asked for smoother inflation.

It was last at 3, 4, 3, and I don't mine but bought at a loss for a very long time to bring new miners on board early on.

ok you seem to be one man army here against improving the coin. let's see if dev gives back the community the chance to decide what it wants. I'm not going to argue with you no more.

[jwinterm]

right now, in our specs, its 30 seconds, 12,500 xvg per block. of course, difficulty affects this greatly. which is why no coin has exact timing specs actually occuring. i could see keeping the reward schedule identical, but changing the 30 seconds to 10 seconds, however 12,500 isnt divisible by 3. you'd get 4166.666666666667 which just doesnt work. however, 15 seconds, with 6,250 does work. ill add that to the poll, reset, and see how it fairs.

Cool, you understand exactly what I'm getting at. You might consider 12'500 coins is divisible by 5, and so is 30 sec.  

6 sec block time 2,500 reward is clean, but so is 15 sec and 6,250 reward. Just post one though or votes would get split.

A 15 second block time would probably be OK at this point, however, imagine that suddenly there was suddenly a lot of interest in the coin, and blocks started filling up to be 100 or 200 kB - I think with a 15 s block time you would probably start inducing a shit ton of orphans due to the non-zero propagation time of non-zero sized blocks. Not that this is an immediate issue, but even with 30 s target time you would probably get lots of orphans if the blocks were getting filled at all. My vote is to leave target time at 30 s.

[Dogedarkdev]

i see no issue with reducing block time, and altering the reward to fit it, so 15 seconds, 6,250, instead of right now having 30 seconds, 12,500.

i will not reduce or increase the overall amount of coins. that would be unfair. the idea of changing it to 30 seconds (staying the same as it is now) and 500 coins per block a reduction by over 11,000 coins), does in fact change the specs, and too much, in my opinion.

ive posted the options im willing to go with, halving the block time and halving the reward, and keeping it the same.

i like the idea of 15 second blocks and halving the reward, because this allows for faster transactions. block size will not be a worry, especially if we have blocks being produced faster, because we've already had blocks with thousands of transactions in them, and they were fine.

edit: to sum it up, i am not concerned with trying to make the price of xvg go up by changing the emission. that seems unfair and i am not willing to cooperate on that, sorry. we got to where we are as it is, and we will continue the way it is. that is why the only option im considering is halving the time and reward.

[fosco333]

right now, in our specs, its 30 seconds, 12,500 xvg per block. of course, difficulty affects this greatly. which is why no coin has exact timing specs actually occuring. i could see keeping the reward schedule identical, but changing the 30 seconds to 10 seconds, however 12,500 isnt divisible by 3. you'd get 4166.666666666667 which just doesnt work. however, 15 seconds, with 6,250 does work. ill add that to the poll, reset, and see how it fairs.

this give us the same exact inflation main problem is inflation as it is. maybe keep de 10 seconds 520 xvg option in the new poll?! In the last poll 70% wanted less inflation smoother blocks.

you cant just change the amount of coins though, without pissing off the portion of the community that isnt sitting on tens of millions of coins, and wants to mine and get more before halvings. i honestly cant think of anything that would be more unfair..

edit: thought of something even more unfair, also adding PoS, so baghodlers get even richer.

From reading the last posts I tend to go with 30 second block and I tend to agree with smoothing inflation. I don't see many people pissed off dev and smoothing inflation as everybody is calling is indeed very interesting. I vote for it too.

[Dogedarkdev]

by halving the time and reward, and our new multi algo system, i believe this will help with distribution. many will hold, many will dump. we will just have to wait and see what happens.

[juanp11]

i see no issue with reducing block time, and altering the reward to fit it, so 15 seconds, 6,250, instead of right now having 30 seconds, 12,500.

i will not reduce or increase the overall amount of coins. that would be unfair. the idea of changing it to 30 seconds (staying the same as it is now) and 500 coins per block a reduction by over 11,000 coins), does in fact change the specs, and too much, in my opinion.

ive posted the options im willing to go with, halving the block time and halving the reward, and keeping it the same.

i like the idea of 15 second blocks and halving the reward, because this allows for faster transactions. block size will not be a worry, especially if we have blocks being produced faster, because we've already had blocks with thousands of transactions in them, and they were fine.

edit: to sum it up, i am not concerned with trying to make the price of xvg go up by changing the emission. that seems unfair and i am not willing to cooperate on that, sorry. we got to where we are as it is, and we will continue the way it is. that is why the only option im considering is halving the time and reward.

So, at 15 second block times, are we moving up the halving date because there are more blocks? Frankly, if we are that helps with the inflation issue in the near term.

[Zedux]

i see no issue with reducing block time, and altering the reward to fit it, so 15 seconds, 6,250, instead of right now having 30 seconds, 12,500.

i will not reduce or increase the overall amount of coins. that would be unfair. the idea of changing it to 30 seconds (staying the same as it is now) and 500 coins per block a reduction by over 11,000 coins), does in fact change the specs, and too much, in my opinion.

ive posted the options im willing to go with, halving the block time and halving the reward, and keeping it the same.

i like the idea of 15 second blocks and halving the reward, because this allows for faster transactions. block size will not be a worry, especially if we have blocks being produced faster, because we've already had blocks with thousands of transactions in them, and they were fine.

edit: to sum it up, i am not concerned with trying to make the price of xvg go up by changing the emission. that seems unfair and i am not willing to cooperate on that, sorry. we got to where we are as it is, and we will continue the way it is. that is why the only option im considering is halving the time and reward.

So, at 15 second block times, are we moving up the halving date because there are more blocks? Frankly, if we are that helps with the inflation issue in the near term.

yep so 15 seconds/6,250 xvg per block is what we get so voted for it

[p75formula]

I find it very hard to believe that ANYONE invested in hardware solely for the purpose of mining VERGE. Even if they did, this still doesn't really hurt them. Also, if they did, they should have done the math and bought VERGE instead of mining hardware.

[jwinterm]

i see no issue with reducing block time...

Bitcoin is having a civil war over whether or not to go to 2 MB per 10 min. With a 1 MB block limit and 15 s target time, you would effectively have 40 MB per 10 min. Greg Maxwell would probably shit a brick if someone proposed that for BTC. I guess 20 MB per 10 min (current situation with 30 s block target), or 40 MB per 10 min doesn't make a big difference in the end probably, but there could be an issue at some point if lots of txs started flying (or miners created a bunch of txs to stuff their own blocks for whatever reason), probably in either case.

[Dogedarkdev]

i see no issue with reducing block time...

Bitcoin is having a civil war over whether or not to go to 2 MB per 10 min. With a 1 MB block limit and 15 s target time, you would effectively have 40 MB per 10 min. Greg Maxwell would probably shit a brick if someone proposed that for BTC. I guess 20 MB per 10 min (current situation with 30 s block target), or 40 MB per 10 min doesn't make a big difference in the end probably, but there could be an issue at some point if lots of txs started flying (or miners created a bunch of txs to stuff their own blocks for whatever reason), probably in either case.

we could always add pruning, for the users sake though. but also, all the megabytes in the limit are not used. bitcoin still only has about 800k in really high blocks, so they wouldnt even see larger blocks unless the transactions started doubling.

[kampretkabur]

voted for 15 seconds/6250, i dont really know bout the technical problem if its changed to this, but considering of what is happening now, speeding the transaction is a primary now, dont know how it will affect the miner though, they are the most important people to be considered here

[Dogedarkdev]

voted for 15 seconds/6250, i dont really know bout the technical problem if its changed to this, but considering of what is happening now, speeding the transaction is a primary now, dont know how it will affect the miner though, they are the most important people to be considered here

oh we've already come up with the solution for fixing the blockchain, this is just random and honestly i should have not even put it to vote.. lol

[BITDV]

voted for 15 seconds/6250, i dont really know bout the technical problem if its changed to this, but considering of what is happening now, speeding the transaction is a primary now, dont know how it will affect the miner though, they are the most important people to be considered here

oh we've already come up with the solution for fixing the blockchain, this is just random and honestly i should have not even put it to vote.. lol

Pull the vote down , a can of worms is getting opened that could end in just a big shit fight mate!!  Once the Multi-algo starts , it will spread the rewards around and away from the hogs(this isnt directed at the normal run of the mill miners, its the hashzilla's kill the difficulty) , so wether people have only invested in scrypt miners just for verge mining (which i doubt in the majority of cases) , it will be spread over the other algos , so the arguement that people are getting ripped off is mute!!
Get the algos happens , speed well all except the hashzilla's killing it , i think is fine!!

[Dogedarkdev]

voted for 15 seconds/6250, i dont really know bout the technical problem if its changed to this, but considering of what is happening now, speeding the transaction is a primary now, dont know how it will affect the miner though, they are the most important people to be considered here

oh we've already come up with the solution for fixing the blockchain, this is just random and honestly i should have not even put it to vote.. lol

Pull the vote down , a can of worms is getting opened that could end in just a big shit fight mate!!  Once the Multi-algo starts , it will spread the rewards around and away from the hogs(this isnt directed at the normal run of the mill miners, its the hashzilla's kill the difficulty) , so wether people have only invested in scrypt miners just for verge mining (which i doubt in the majority of cases) , it will be spread over the other algos , so the arguement that people are getting ripped off is mute!!
Get the algos happens , speed well all except the hashzilla's killing it , i think is fine!!

good call. also glad we could finally get x17 going. thanks for keeping it on your github

[OMALLEY-CRYPTO]

For next Wallet update, could you please consider implimenting 'kimoto gravity well algorithm' to regulate the diff please..