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Author Topic: Obyte: Totally new consensus algorithm + private untraceable payments  (Read 1216741 times)
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November 05, 2017, 11:07:14 PM
 #14841

@cryptohunter - serious question but can you suggest a fair distribution method and how you’ll combat gaming of the system?

from what i see there is no fair way. there is only better ways but none of them are ungameable.

theres camps that always want more for the little guys but end result is little guys usually sell fast for meager returns and capital flows to the smart. then the little complain later when its worth more.

personally short of unique person id and equal giving of coins there is no fair way. identifying a unique person is impossible.

people talk of whales and no risked btc  but back in initial first byteball drop anyone could of purchased more btc to do it. 100btc linked then would give around 450gb today.

it doesnt sound fair but is it fair today that $7300 gets you 1btc where 6 years ago it got you like 10,000 btc?

also if all the people sold gb and 1 person bought it all up is that fair? should everyone buying all get a piece at that price?

I gave many small tweaks that would have made it much fairer and much more sensible ie not funding competing projects and not being able to fund our own without halting the full moon distributions.

The only fair way to launch a project in a trustless decentralised way is fair launch protocol POW.

However a retro spective snapshot with top 2-5 % of wallets chopped would have helped a lot. The first distribution was where the most damage was done. If you can tell me how that could be gamed then I will admit it is not a good solution. Never forget though even if things make it difficult for gaming it is worth doing. You lock your doors when you leave home right but I can smash the windows or drive a lorry through the walls to obtain access. Does not mean it is not worth locking your door right. You don't leave it open and a sign saying please rob me do you?

I would actually have more of an issue thinking up a worse way to distribute in terms of perceived fairness and dev funding.

Think clearly about what you are saying.

Being a btc whale now should give you automatic rights to being a whale in every new alt  for free with no risk to your btc. That notion is ludicrous.




chopping 2-5% of top wallets wont work. you have to announce prior to be open transparent for accountability. scripts run can split payments. this is what i mean there is holes in every way.

fair launch pow is not fair either think about it. china has cheaper electricity than other countries is this not unfair or discrimination? what about asic manufacturers like bitmain sending resources at it? they make their equipment so can hold back tech and supply to do it. this is also not fair.

if not sha256 then people with pc farms same diff.

yes there is a spend but its still a market advantage. in the same way btc could have been bought to acquire more bb.

not having a go at you but i think you are focusing on this tonys method whilst not realising your suggestions are highly gamable as well.

its not perfect but its better than a lot of existing ways ie buy ico and huge premines.

its cheap now and likely to get cheaper. one could buy more bb now with the future in mind. so far i think the biggest sellers are the smaller owners.

edit

also remember tony wanted a wide distribution. icos rarely do this. the sell fast in big amounts to few. their prices to others dictate market which is not fair.

i think personally there is no fair way to do it without identity linking. even that without in person collection is hard.

its not perfect but i think its done well for the goal of a wide distribution. the list on transition has a lot of addresses linked.
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November 05, 2017, 11:30:55 PM
 #14842

@cryptohunter - serious question but can you suggest a fair distribution method and how you’ll combat gaming of the system?

from what i see there is no fair way. there is only better ways but none of them are ungameable.

theres camps that always want more for the little guys but end result is little guys usually sell fast for meager returns and capital flows to the smart. then the little complain later when its worth more.

personally short of unique person id and equal giving of coins there is no fair way. identifying a unique person is impossible.

people talk of whales and no risked btc  but back in initial first byteball drop anyone could of purchased more btc to do it. 100btc linked then would give around 450gb today.

it doesnt sound fair but is it fair today that $7300 gets you 1btc where 6 years ago it got you like 10,000 btc?

also if all the people sold gb and 1 person bought it all up is that fair? should everyone buying all get a piece at that price?

I gave many small tweaks that would have made it much fairer and much more sensible ie not funding competing projects and not being able to fund our own without halting the full moon distributions.

The only fair way to launch a project in a trustless decentralised way is fair launch protocol POW.

However a retro spective snapshot with top 2-5 % of wallets chopped would have helped a lot. The first distribution was where the most damage was done. If you can tell me how that could be gamed then I will admit it is not a good solution. Never forget though even if things make it difficult for gaming it is worth doing. You lock your doors when you leave home right but I can smash the windows or drive a lorry through the walls to obtain access. Does not mean it is not worth locking your door right. You don't leave it open and a sign saying please rob me do you?

I would actually have more of an issue thinking up a worse way to distribute in terms of perceived fairness and dev funding.

Think clearly about what you are saying.

Being a btc whale now should give you automatic rights to being a whale in every new alt  for free with no risk to your btc. That notion is ludicrous.




chopping 2-5% of top wallets wont work. you have to announce prior to be open transparent for accountability. scripts run can split payments. this is what i mean there is holes in every way.

fair launch pow is not fair either think about it. china has cheaper electricity than other countries is this not unfair or discrimination? what about asic manufacturers like bitmain sending resources at it? they make their equipment so can hold back tech and supply to do it. this is also not fair.

if not sha256 then people with pc farms same diff.

yes there is a spend but its still a market advantage. in the same way btc could have been bought to acquire more bb.

not having a go at you but i think you are focusing on this tonys method whilst not realising your suggestions are highly gamable as well.

its not perfect but its better than a lot of existing ways ie buy ico and huge premines.

its cheap now and likely to get cheaper. one could buy more bb now with the future in mind. so far i think the biggest sellers are the smaller owners.

edit

also remember tony wanted a wide distribution. icos rarely do this. the sell fast in big amounts to few. their prices to others dictate market which is not fair.

i think personally there is no fair way to do it without identity linking. even that without in person collection is hard.

its not perfect but i think its done well for the goal of a wide distribution. the list on transition has a lot of addresses linked.


Okay you seem more reasonable and I believe you are genuine in what you are saying.

chopping 2-5% of top wallets wont work. you have to announce prior to be open transparent for accountability. scripts run can split payments. this is what i mean there is holes in every way.

I personally do not believe that not announcing to  the super rich will not get richer for free is as bad as what happened. Not by a long way. They would probably have more shame than even to complain about it. Sorry they should understand they have enough already.

Also what about a max payment to any individual address not announced before time?

Ok announce a few mins before let them scurry around breaking up all their wallets then linking them all up ... let them try that.

These are not perfect but they are a vast improvement upon what happened to me anyway.

Remember we still lock our doors even though people can gain access to our home if they really want. No points saying it can still be gamed let them try and work to game it don';t just hand it over to them with no hassle or stress for them.

The rich wanting to get richer well make them work for it splitting up their address and all the rest of the hassle make them work for it at least.

I suggested some one as smart as tony could easily think of something even better if we need to use btc as some kind of vehicle.


A short POW phase of a few months is not going to really make that much difference (electricity advantage speaking i mean the hardware is roughly the same cost everywhere so that balances it out quite a bit and for short phase equipment is by far a larger factor) on a gpu only minable coin with fair launch protocol and fast scaling diff. Really the difference in electricity cost is not going to even be close to not even close to the advantage given to whales in this method.


Any short duration , capped or unadvertised icos are scams.

Ico should be widely advertised, long duration and open ended.

POW with fair launch protocol is the best way to launch a trustless decentralised project. Both ltc and btc did not have fast enough scaling dif and anti instamine measures really.


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November 06, 2017, 12:15:56 AM
 #14843

@ coiner

Ah I hear more speculation on my motives and BTC history of course all totally incorrect. Yet no real explanation. Only that you have a strange sense of what is fair. Because of one shared rule it seems that makes it fair to you. I'm sorry but there is more complexity to life than that.

BTAIM, that wasn't "more" speculation (assuming you're referring to what I think you are), it was simply me clarifying, as you did, my earlier speculation on your motives.

Quote
Let me try and give some assistance off of the top of my head....

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 people land on a desert island from a ship wreck you and my good self.

I find a box with 20 cans of food inside... yummy

You find a box containing 1 can of food.


A ship comes a month later and the captain says how have you guys survived. You look a bit fucked up but he is polite and does not mention I am better looking and in far better shape. He initially puts this down to better genetics/breeding etc

I tell them I found a box with 20 cans of food in and these were big cans of very nutritious food (nom nom nom)

You whisper in a croaky feminine voice you barely survived because you only  found a box with 1 can of food in .and it was digusting (oh dear Sad )

Captain says - he will bring us food regularly (but wont rescue us on his boat for some reason, doesn't like the look of you but does not want to be unfair)

He says the fairest way is if I get 20 cans of food each month and you get 1. After all that is what we had before right.

I'll admit the analogy sorta works but it fails at this point because it should be based on the %age of the cans of food we have. Since there should be more cans of food on the island (for it to match the ByteBall/BTC situation), nothing stops either of us from scavenging for more cans of food to increase the %age we receive from the captain. That's certainly what I've been doing since I found out about ByteBall in July/August.

Quote
I wonder if that little story can assist you? I assure you it would if this happened for real. Although being fair i would give you some of my cans don't worry dude.

 Cheesy Thanks.


Quote
Your english is nice. I like it. Your logic and sense of fair play not so much


So question 2. I agree with you.  There is no further need to discuss it. It was a bad move unless tony is in league or colluding with the other projects.


Question 1 is still a big issue for you.

You will never convince people that being a whale in BTC should automatically permit you to get a whale share in other alts for free with no risk to their own whale stash of bitcoins.

Sorry that will not wash. Create a thread on the main board and poll so that I may see how you start to grasp that your version of fair is not fair.

If that's what you've gleaned from my posts up till now then you've completely misunderstood me. Not only am I not saying that, I'm really saying the opposite. If you disagree, feel free to show me how "You're not entitled to anything in an airdrop irrespective of how much BTC you hold" translates to "You should automatically get [i.e. are entitled to] a whale share of an airdropped alt because you're a BTC whale".

I'll clarify it one more time: Whether you have 0.014 BTC or 140 BTC (like one guy that linked his address), you're not entitled to anything in this airdrop. For example, I didn't get my GBB during one of the airdrops because it was apparently way too little and was told to not complain about "losing cents" as they put it. Others too didn't get theirs for a variety of reasons. That said, having more BTC means that you will get more GB than someone who has less and in fact, you'll get it sooner than someone that has less.

Taking from your POW alternative, it's just like Bitmain will always mine more BTC than you ever could with the little mining farm you have. They're not entitled to it, they just have more of what is needed to get it. In ByteBall's case, it was BTC that was needed.

Quote
Your logic tells you that since there is one shared rule for both parties whales and guppy that it makes it fair you are wrong.

But it is fair. I wouldn't complain if I was placed on a race track with another guy but my car wasn't fast enough to beat the guy in the Chiron but I would complain if I was prevented from winning because he was provided a shortcut to the finish line.
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November 06, 2017, 12:58:35 AM
 #14844

sry guys, i dumped... i dumped real hard. But dont worry i'll be back in the game when price is like fiddy bucks. I believe in this project.
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November 06, 2017, 01:13:08 AM
 #14845



Quick announcement...

I started new exchange where we trading BTC/GByte, LTC/Gbyte and also we have dash and shortly ETH. We will start accepting Byteball assets and Erc20 tokens. I am open for comments and opinions. Also ideas which coins or which pairs we should have is always welcome


Link to main thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2363568.msg24096554#msg24096554
Link to our reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Cryptochangex/
Link to our twitter: https://twitter.com/cryptochangex

Or just link to our exchange: https://cryptochangex.com
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November 06, 2017, 01:20:49 AM
Last edit: November 06, 2017, 01:40:06 AM by cryptohunter
 #14846

@coiner

Yes you are correct my analogy really only works okay for the first air drop. However that was the most damaging one it was worth 10 x the following airdrops. It was then compounded on top of being 10x larger already.

I could adapt and adapt the island one until it was almost a perfect analogy and if you and I were really on the island experiencing this then you would eventually concede it wasn't fair or that life is just a complete bitch. I mean fair is a matter of perspective unless grossly grossly unfair then usually agreement is reached.

Now as to the bitmain one..

I like to view every new alt release as a separate event.

Now bitmain wants a new alt. If that alt is popular (byteball is popular and will become more so) it will face wide competition for the new alt.

If bitmain wants say 1000x more of this alt that myself they will need to spend/risk 1000x (perhaps only 300x they get cheap electricity but mine is not expensive)

So I spend 100 bucks they spend 30000 bucks

The new alts turn to junk and becomes worthless.

I lose 100 bucks they lose 30000 bucks.
This is pretty much fair to me. Or as fair as life gets. I would have no issue with that.


The car race one.... hmmm. Yes if nothing depended on the race no reason to complain too much i guess. Up the anti though....

It is televised..like the running man (love that film ...the arnie one with buzzsaw and dynamo) and you and some other guy are running this race and your life now depends  upon it.

His father is rich and so naturally (and fairly according to you) the producer gives him the chiron. Your dad was not paying attention in school and you get an old heap of junk. Neither parent has to hand over hard cash so same for both i guess.

Track is the same track.. same distance.

People watching are going to be saying fair or unfair?

Now we are kind of pals and all I wouldn't even want to watch it Sad turns my stomach even to think about it.






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November 06, 2017, 01:23:38 AM
 #14847



Quick announcement...

I started new exchange where we trading BTC/GByte, LTC/Gbyte and also we have dash and shortly ETH. We will start accepting Byteball assets and Erc20 tokens. I am open for comments and opinions. Also ideas which coins or which pairs we should have is always welcome


Link to main thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2363568.msg24096554#msg24096554
Link to our reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Cryptochangex/
Link to our twitter: https://twitter.com/cryptochangex

Or just link to our exchange: https://cryptochangex.com

Wow, this is... wow. Talk about unexpected good news. :thumbs up:



@cryptohunter, just saw your post. I'll respond ASAP.
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November 06, 2017, 02:17:27 AM
 #14848

I'm not good at all this technical blockchain staff.
Could somebody describe why large ICO projects will choose ByteBall as a platform for their tokens?

As I understand Byteball is very fast and it will become even faster if a byteball network can attract new users (witnesses).
So, if Byteball is so fast it will be cool to use it for small instant payments. Buy what about ICOs? Why they will choose BB instead of
Etherium for example?

Thanks in advance

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November 06, 2017, 04:09:09 AM
 #14849

sry guys, i dumped... i dumped real hard. But dont worry i'll be back in the game when price is like fiddy bucks. I believe in this project.
Lol now I'm curious how much are we talking about?  Grin
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November 06, 2017, 04:16:19 AM
 #14850

sry guys, i dumped... i dumped real hard. But dont worry i'll be back in the game when price is like fiddy bucks. I believe in this project.
so is that the time to dive in ? 50 ? seriously ?
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November 06, 2017, 04:20:38 AM
 #14851

sry guys, i dumped... i dumped real hard. But dont worry i'll be back in the game when price is like fiddy bucks. I believe in this project.
Lol now I'm curious how much are we talking about?  Grin

Can't be a lot since byteball has only dropped 10% today.  It's now at nearly 11%.
The real value drop is because of bitcoin dropping so much today.
$7570 to $7134 at the time of the post.

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November 06, 2017, 07:14:41 AM
 #14852



Quick announcement...

I started new exchange where we trading BTC/GByte, LTC/Gbyte and also we have dash and shortly ETH. We will start accepting Byteball assets and Erc20 tokens. I am open for comments and opinions. Also ideas which coins or which pairs we should have is always welcome
<snip>
Fiat trading is coming for Byteball, awesome!

 Cheesy  Cheesy  Cheesy

Follow me on twitter for the latest news on bitcoin and altcoins and I'll follow you back the same day!
Obyte - An open cryptocurrency platform ready for real world adoption
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November 06, 2017, 08:12:14 AM
 #14853

I didn't find the bounty thread....  Sad
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November 06, 2017, 09:08:12 AM
 #14854



Do not miss the special Airdrop-Jackpot at Luckybytes!


Jackpot now at: 7450 MB with only 490 tickets sold! So the odds are fantastic!

One ticket costs 11 MB
Only one day left!


Join from your botstore or from this website:
https://lucky.byte-ball.com

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November 06, 2017, 09:43:23 AM
 #14855

sry guys, i dumped... i dumped real hard. But dont worry i'll be back in the game when price is like fiddy bucks. I believe in this project.
Lol now I'm curious how much are we talking about?  Grin

Can't be a lot since byteball has only dropped 10% today.  It's now at nearly 11%.
The real value drop is because of bitcoin dropping so much today.
$7570 to $7134 at the time of the post.


The problem is that the BYTE has dropped against bitcoin in the last three months.
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November 06, 2017, 11:58:17 AM
 #14856

The problem is that the BYTE has dropped against bitcoin in the last three months.

everything has dropped hugely, but gbyte carried out its biggest drops long before all the other alts began to bleed out. it's not a general market thing, it's a consequence of who's holding or selling gbyte.
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November 06, 2017, 01:14:32 PM
 #14857

Anybody have similar problem?


What`s wrong with witness?

            ▄▄████▄▄
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.SEMUX
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  Semux uses 100% original codebase
  Superfast with 30 seconds instant finality
  Tested 5000 tx per block on open network
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November 06, 2017, 01:27:47 PM
 #14858

I got same message ozik.  Maybe its a bug just be patient im sure tonych will fix it within a day or whenever he gets to it.
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November 06, 2017, 02:05:20 PM
 #14859

Anybody have similar problem?


What`s wrong with witness?

Thanks for reporting. This error is already known and a fix is underway!

Follow me on twitter for the latest news on bitcoin and altcoins and I'll follow you back the same day!
Obyte - An open cryptocurrency platform ready for real world adoption
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November 06, 2017, 02:10:08 PM
 #14860

Anybody have similar problem?


What`s wrong with witness?

Thanks for reporting. This error is already known and a fix is underway!

Thanks for your good job and project!

            ▄▄████▄▄
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██████████████████▄▄        ▀▀████
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  ▀▀████████████████████████
      ▀▀█████████████████▀▀
           ▀▀███████▀▀



.SEMUX
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  Semux uses 100% original codebase
  Superfast with 30 seconds instant finality
  Tested 5000 tx per block on open network
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