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Author Topic: Obyte: Totally new consensus algorithm + private untraceable payments  (Read 1164832 times)
ByteFan
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November 13, 2017, 07:13:42 PM
 #15061

If there are equal amount of "down" and "up" contracts, the fair payout would be 2x, or 100%.


Of course you will never see that because there is the margin of the house in the middle. It is not a casino but it is a business that means it is supposed to bring profit after dev get paid, hosting paid, promotion cost and market-making risk capital expenses...

Byteball payment gateway for web merchants https://byteball-for-merchants.com/ - BEEB  (Blackbytes Exchange Bot): https://www.beeb-bot.com/ (closed)
Network map, stats, Top Richests and Byteball world map at https://byteball.fr/ (closed) - Hub operator featuring the cashback witness https://byteball-cashback-witness.com (closed)
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November 13, 2017, 07:27:19 PM
 #15062

If there are equal amount of "down" and "up" contracts, the fair payout would be 2x, or 100%.


Of course you will never see that because there is the margin of the house in the middle. It is not a casino but it is a business that means it is supposed to bring profit after dev get paid, hosting paid, promotion cost and market-making risk capital expenses...

I am not against a house edge, it is absolutely fair to charge a fee for providing service, but your house edge seem to be pretty high to me. That is why I am asking to provide more details on how exactly you calculate payouts and how much you keep for yourself.

Blockchain (or DAG) based business is all about transparency. Without transparency why bother about these technologies?

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November 13, 2017, 07:29:15 PM
 #15063

Did I miss something? A price jump of 34%.

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November 13, 2017, 07:49:33 PM
 #15064

Did I miss something? A price jump of 34%.

Not sure... could be a pump & dump when you consider it happened exactly at 9.00 UTC. Since the weekend there is lot of money floating around.

Wanted to accumulate some for myself but now iam waiting 1 or 2 days... Think anyway this project could play a major role in future.

Are there any new infos for next airdrop? Is there still potential for airdrop?
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November 13, 2017, 07:50:20 PM
 #15065

Did I miss something? A price jump of 34%.

Looks like you didn't miss it to me.   Smiley   Thanks for pointing it out, now I am gonna do ..... nothing.  Hodl!
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November 13, 2017, 08:20:30 PM
 #15066

Version 1.11.3 released https://github.com/byteball/byteball/releases

* Added support for user friendly asset names.  However you will see the names in the wallet only after we set up the registries.  More about it later.

Sorry for the delay, recent wallet issues took too much time.  This is how the registry system is supposed to work.

Asset names are supposed to be assigned by trusted users/businesses called registries.  Any number of registries can exist, and each hub will have a list of registries it trusts.  Only names assigned by trusted registries will be broadcast to wallets connected to the hub.

The registries post data records like this https://explorer.byteball.org/#kYdnCr84pe/T7QJRLV0Yknf24+n9K9c9AGZclgS8WVA=
Pay attention to the Data section of this unit:
Code:
asset: 9x6ZmDXonsyLhv2lEc5snj04MPiQ8tMq7m8qSJLac8o=
name: tonycoin
decimals: 2
It says that registry 3Y24IXW57546PQAPQ2SXYEPEDNX4KC6Y (the author of this unit) assigned name "tonycoin" to asset 9x6ZmDXonsyLhv2lEc5snj04MPiQ8tMq7m8qSJLac8o= and its amounts must be displayed with 2 decimal places.

Anyone can post such a record and be a self-proclaimed registry, they need to use only the standard wallet with its recently added data posting functionality.

However, to make these names visible by users, the registry must be trusted by hubs.  It is in the interest of the hubs to create a safe environment for their users where asset names are unique, clear, and fairly assigned, without names that were created to deliberately confuse, mislead, or scam people, and without name squatting.  That's why the hubs are expected to trust only those registries whose policies meet their quality criteria.

Each hub can have its own set of criteria, here is what I would expect from a registry to be trusted:

- it should never register the same name to two different assets
- it should do its best to avoid registering a name that was already registered by another trusted registry to another asset (impossible to totally exclude e.g. if they make registrations at nearly the same time)
- it should not register names that are meant to mislead people.  E.g. names that are similar to existing ones, names using spelling tricks (lowercase L for uppercase I, etc), names that are already associated with something else (e.g. a random guy cannot apply to register "microsoft")
- it should not register dictionary words to avoid name squatting.  When the asset is still associated with a dictionary word, it must be qualified, e.g. with the owner's name.  For example, you can't register a "pizza" but can register "PapaJohnsPizza" or "DominosPizza".  The registries may use a hierarchical structure in such cases, e.g. papajohns.pizza, dominos.pizza, hawaiian.dominos.pizza.  The registry should verify the owner's name, either on its own, or relying on a third-party verification (such as attestation).  In any case, the responsibility is with the registry.
- invented words are OK.  E.g. it was OK to register "google" in 1997.

It all sounds similar to trademark registration, just more decentralized with multiple competing registries.

Registration is a manual process and takes some work and human judgement to validate each application.  That's why registries are supposed to charge a fee for their work.

If the same name is still registered to different assets by different registries, and both registries are trusted by the hub, the hub should append a suffix with the registry name to remove ambiguity in the wallets.  Otherwise, the suffix is not displayed to make the name shorter.

The end result is, asset names are unique and honest, making the environment safe for users.  This is different from other platforms (such as Waves) where duplicate names are allowed, anyone can register anything, and users have to be constantly on guard against scams.

------

Now, we still have 0 trusted registries on the default hub byteball.org and the assets in the wallets are still cryptic hashes.  My proposal is that we elect 1 or 2 registries to start with.  We already have a poll bot and can put it to use here.  If this sounds like a good idea, let's start with nominations.


That sounds good, Tony. I would be very happy to try the poll bot. Another milestone, nicely done! Smiley
(I think that's worth a Fullquote...)  Wink
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November 13, 2017, 08:39:49 PM
 #15067

i had a question regarding the decentralised nature of byteball. It seems that the smart contracts are just bots using some special features making them very centralised. Any comments or feedback would be great.


What do you mean? Smart contracts can be used by anyone. You probably mean the oracles? Like the time oracle, which is a node that posts timestamps. Its true there is only one at the moment. But anyone could create one and utilize it. Or even a bunch of them and creat a smart contract which uses 5 oracles as a source.

I am yet to find the protocols for a smart contract / smart contract code, is there a documentation explaining how to code a smart contract on byteball?

My comment is based on: https://github.com/byteball/ico-bot

Which is just a bot to run the ICO to interact with the database. Which is not really a smart contract.

you might want to take a look at this page: https://github.com/byteball/byteballcore/wiki/Writing-chatbots-for-Byteball
If you want to take a look at conditional payment in action, feel free to connect to my bot #freebe. And play around with the sell and buy command. It will offer you a smart contract that way.

but that is still a bot operating with byteball. it is not very decentralised nor is it a "smart contract". Am i wrong here?

Hmm,  whats your definition of decentralised and "smart contract"? In my opinion it is very much decentralised in my example.
#freebe is a bot i wrote myself. i am not connected with the byteball developers in any way.

I create smart contracts between freebe and its users. for example to give a certain amount of bytes for blackbytes.
If freebe or the user wants to cash out this smart address (contract) the conditions are checked by the byteball network, not by the user it self or by freebe.
If the network nodes agree that a cerain condition of the contract is met, the user or me can pay out the contract.

I appreciate your feedback. I understand what you mean, though therein lies the problem. You are hosting this bot on a server. As far as the concept of decentralization goes, your bot is sitting in a central server, open to corruption, spam, being blocked, hacks, modification etc.

The standard method is to have the smart contract run directly on the chain without external bots or participants.

The smart contract is verified by the network, not on my server. But i see what you mean. But any real smart contract would need data from the chain or internet (like timestamps, etc.) so, correct me if i'm wrong, but wouldnt a smart contract on lets say ETH also at one point uses data from a private owned server (like a timestamp)?

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November 13, 2017, 08:55:56 PM
 #15068

Was Distribution skipped in Oct or something? Huh  I haven't opened my Byteball wallet for a while until recently.  I saw that I got an airdrop on 9-6 and then another on 11-4.  I have not touched my wallet for months, I'm wondering what happened to the Oct airdrop?

There was no airdrop in October.

Was there a reason for this?  i remember the airdrops being Monthly before or am i thinking of another coin?

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November 13, 2017, 09:03:45 PM
 #15069

Did I miss something? A price jump of 34%.

Looks like you didn't miss it to me.   Smiley   Thanks for pointing it out, now I am gonna do ..... nothing.  Hodl!


free bcash profits looking for something else to play with is my guess. there was one hell of alot of volume.
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November 13, 2017, 09:39:53 PM
 #15070

Did I miss something? A price jump of 34%.

Looks like you didn't miss it to me.   Smiley   Thanks for pointing it out, now I am gonna do ..... nothing.  Hodl!


free bcash profits looking for something else to play with is my guess. there was one hell of alot of volume.
That's classic: When two quarrel, a third rejoices. Grin
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November 13, 2017, 10:01:16 PM
 #15071

Was Distribution skipped in Oct or something? Huh  I haven't opened my Byteball wallet for a while until recently.  I saw that I got an airdrop on 9-6 and then another on 11-4.  I have not touched my wallet for months, I'm wondering what happened to the Oct airdrop?

There was no airdrop in October.

Was there a reason for this?  i remember the airdrops being Monthly before or am i thinking of another coin?
RTFT

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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November 13, 2017, 11:08:29 PM
 #15072

Version 1.11.3 released https://github.com/byteball/byteball/releases

* Added support for user friendly asset names.  However you will see the names in the wallet only after we set up the registries.  More about it later.

Sorry for the delay, recent wallet issues took too much time.  This is how the registry system is supposed to work.

Asset names are supposed to be assigned by trusted users/businesses called registries.  Any number of registries can exist, and each hub will have a list of registries it trusts.  Only names assigned by trusted registries will be broadcast to wallets connected to the hub.

The registries post data records like this https://explorer.byteball.org/#kYdnCr84pe/T7QJRLV0Yknf24+n9K9c9AGZclgS8WVA=
Pay attention to the Data section of this unit:
Code:
asset: 9x6ZmDXonsyLhv2lEc5snj04MPiQ8tMq7m8qSJLac8o=
name: tonycoin
decimals: 2
It says that registry 3Y24IXW57546PQAPQ2SXYEPEDNX4KC6Y (the author of this unit) assigned name "tonycoin" to asset 9x6ZmDXonsyLhv2lEc5snj04MPiQ8tMq7m8qSJLac8o= and its amounts must be displayed with 2 decimal places.

Anyone can post such a record and be a self-proclaimed registry, they need to use only the standard wallet with its recently added data posting functionality.

However, to make these names visible by users, the registry must be trusted by hubs.  It is in the interest of the hubs to create a safe environment for their users where asset names are unique, clear, and fairly assigned, without names that were created to deliberately confuse, mislead, or scam people, and without name squatting.  That's why the hubs are expected to trust only those registries whose policies meet their quality criteria.

Each hub can have its own set of criteria, here is what I would expect from a registry to be trusted:

- it should never register the same name to two different assets
- it should do its best to avoid registering a name that was already registered by another trusted registry to another asset (impossible to totally exclude e.g. if they make registrations at nearly the same time)
- it should not register names that are meant to mislead people.  E.g. names that are similar to existing ones, names using spelling tricks (lowercase L for uppercase I, etc), names that are already associated with something else (e.g. a random guy cannot apply to register "microsoft")
- it should not register dictionary words to avoid name squatting.  When the asset is still associated with a dictionary word, it must be qualified, e.g. with the owner's name.  For example, you can't register a "pizza" but can register "PapaJohnsPizza" or "DominosPizza".  The registries may use a hierarchical structure in such cases, e.g. papajohns.pizza, dominos.pizza, hawaiian.dominos.pizza.  The registry should verify the owner's name, either on its own, or relying on a third-party verification (such as attestation).  In any case, the responsibility is with the registry.
- invented words are OK.  E.g. it was OK to register "google" in 1997.

It all sounds similar to trademark registration, just more decentralized with multiple competing registries.

Registration is a manual process and takes some work and human judgement to validate each application.  That's why registries are supposed to charge a fee for their work.

If the same name is still registered to different assets by different registries, and both registries are trusted by the hub, the hub should append a suffix with the registry name to remove ambiguity in the wallets.  Otherwise, the suffix is not displayed to make the name shorter.

The end result is, asset names are unique and honest, making the environment safe for users.  This is different from other platforms (such as Waves) where duplicate names are allowed, anyone can register anything, and users have to be constantly on guard against scams.

------

Now, we still have 0 trusted registries on the default hub byteball.org and the assets in the wallets are still cryptic hashes.  My proposal is that we elect 1 or 2 registries to start with.  We already have a poll bot and can put it to use here.  If this sounds like a good idea, let's start with nominations.



This is the news I have been waiting for for months! I guess this will be a very important milestone for Byteball. Let's start with the nominations Smiley

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November 13, 2017, 11:33:18 PM
 #15073

Great news re the assets guys! Keep it up!
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November 14, 2017, 12:58:52 AM
 #15074

From a technical analytic perspective, this is a huge event. The 50 Day Moving Average is being tested/broken right now. This is extremely bullish and hopefully we see byteball to .12-.14 region in the next couple weeks!!

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November 14, 2017, 01:18:25 AM
 #15075

Get ready boys, it's beginning, let's see how many of you are eager to dump.

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November 14, 2017, 01:25:09 AM
 #15076

I am not against a house edge, it is absolutely fair to charge a fee for providing service, but your house edge seem to be pretty high to me. That is why I am asking to provide more details on how exactly you calculate payouts and how much you keep for yourself.

Blockchain (or DAG) based business is all about transparency. Without transparency why bother about these technologies?
You keep using "house edge" as if this was in relation to casino gambling... You are using the wrong term. It is NOT a house edge. A house edge is the theoretical "edge" that the house has based on mathematically provable probabilities over an infinite series of events.

This is more like sports betting... and the risks involved offering odds on the result of a sporting event.

Given that there are so many factors outside the control the guy running this service... and the result is not likely to be "truly random" like casino games are supposed to be, I would suggest that he has basically done a quick "risk calculation" based on historical data/current events/magic 8 ball... and has created the options as he deems appropriate.

Essentially the same way a bookie will calculate odds on a sports result...

Think of it this way... Brazil vs. Scunthorpe United in a game of football... it wouldn't be entirely unexpected that the payout for Brazil winning would be something like "$1.01", in which case, you'd need to wager $100 to win $1.... much like whatever option you were looking at... betting 1 GB to make 0.8 GB... sounds like the "bookie" decided that was the more likely outcome of the two and adjusted the payouts accordingly.


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November 14, 2017, 01:32:28 AM
 #15077

I am not against a house edge, it is absolutely fair to charge a fee for providing service, but your house edge seem to be pretty high to me. That is why I am asking to provide more details on how exactly you calculate payouts and how much you keep for yourself.

Blockchain (or DAG) based business is all about transparency. Without transparency why bother about these technologies?
You keep using "house edge" as if this was in relation to casino gambling... You are using the wrong term. It is NOT a house edge. A house edge is the theoretical "edge" that the house has based on mathematically provable probabilities over an infinite series of events.

This is more like sports betting... and the risks involved offering odds on the result of a sporting event.

Given that there are so many factors outside the control the guy running this service... and the result is not likely to be "truly random" like casino games are supposed to be, I would suggest that he has basically done a quick "risk calculation" based on historical data/current events/magic 8 ball... and has created the options as he deems appropriate.

Essentially the same way a bookie will calculate odds on a sports result...

Think of it this way... Brazil vs. Scunthorpe United in a game of football... it wouldn't be entirely unexpected that the payout for Brazil winning would be something like "$1.01", in which case, you'd need to wager $100 to win $1.... much like whatever option you were looking at... betting 1 GB to make 0.8 GB... sounds like the "bookie" decided that was the more likely outcome of the two and adjusted the payouts accordingly.



It is in fact a house edge, you can call it what ever you like, but these fees are so high that professional traders are probably unlikely to want to use the service. For me, the fees are far to high for me to use it, although I would definitely use it if reasonable fees of 0.1% or so were levied.

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November 14, 2017, 03:28:41 AM
 #15078

Get ready boys, it's beginning, let's see how many of you are eager to dump.

Let's see how far it can be! The current price is now $252.32 for a percentage increased of 47.92%!  Smiley

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November 14, 2017, 03:42:58 AM
 #15079

Wow. Very encouraging price rise today. Wonderful volume of 330 BTC! Highest since initial dump below .04. The pattern of being rewarded for dumping incessantly after each airdrop was going to come to an end sooner or later.

From a technical analytic perspective, this is a huge event. The 50 Day Moving Average is being tested/broken right now. This is extremely bullish and hopefully we see byteball to .12-.14 region in the next couple weeks!!
You are right, but I'd even be happy to see it in the next couple months  Cheesy

For reference, 50 DMA has not been touched since it was crossed to the downside at .26 BTC/GB on July 8th.
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November 14, 2017, 04:47:42 AM
 #15080

It is in fact a house edge, you can call it what ever you like, but these fees are so high that professional traders are probably unlikely to want to use the service. For me, the fees are far to high for me to use it, although I would definitely use it if reasonable fees of 0.1% or so were levied.
I still don't think you quite understand how this works... All you see is that you are "wagering" 1 GB, but will only win 0.8 GB (total payout of 1.8GB)... and somehow you think that this means you're paying a 20% "fee".

You're not, what you're essentially doing is playing "dice" with a 1.8x payout setting.... which on a lot of dice sites, would equate to a "chance" of around 55%. The thing is, YOU need to figure out what you think the actual odds of the "up/down" is and whether or not the payout you're getting matches the "odds" of the result you select.

The "odds" are not as clearly defined as they are with dice which operate in a "fixed" environment... you're basically just guessing that the price is going to be higher or lower after a set time frame... now, if the market you're wagering on is "mooning"... then "UP" is more likely, the return will likely be reduced to reflect those odds.... likewise, if the currency is dumping... then "Down" is more likely and the return is likely to reflect those odds by being reduced.

if the market is v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v... then it is a lot more difficult to guess... and I'd say that the return is likely to be closer to 1:1 to reflect that... of course, it never WILL be 1:1, as the site owner needs to make some money to cover costs... Wink


Payout
The payout is the total paid to the trader in case of a winning contract. Payout = stake + net return.
Example: A winning contract of 78.9% with a 1GBytes stake will award you a 789 MBytes net return and generates a payout of 1.789GBytes. The net return is fixed upon contract purchase. Its value is function of the selected underlying asset, the contract duration and the market conditions at the time of the contract purchase.
As I suspected, it is just like a bookie creating odds for sports...

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