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Author Topic: Obyte: Totally new consensus algorithm + private untraceable payments  (Read 1216741 times)
tonych
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November 13, 2017, 04:49:03 PM
 #15041

Version 1.11.3 released https://github.com/byteball/byteball/releases

* Added support for user friendly asset names.  However you will see the names in the wallet only after we set up the registries.  More about it later.

Sorry for the delay, recent wallet issues took too much time.  This is how the registry system is supposed to work.

Asset names are supposed to be assigned by trusted users/businesses called registries.  Any number of registries can exist, and each hub will have a list of registries it trusts.  Only names assigned by trusted registries will be broadcast to wallets connected to the hub.

The registries post data records like this https://explorer.byteball.org/#kYdnCr84pe/T7QJRLV0Yknf24+n9K9c9AGZclgS8WVA=
Pay attention to the Data section of this unit:
Code:
asset: 9x6ZmDXonsyLhv2lEc5snj04MPiQ8tMq7m8qSJLac8o=
name: tonycoin
decimals: 2
It says that registry 3Y24IXW57546PQAPQ2SXYEPEDNX4KC6Y (the author of this unit) assigned name "tonycoin" to asset 9x6ZmDXonsyLhv2lEc5snj04MPiQ8tMq7m8qSJLac8o= and its amounts must be displayed with 2 decimal places.

Anyone can post such a record and be a self-proclaimed registry, they need to use only the standard wallet with its recently added data posting functionality.

However, to make these names visible by users, the registry must be trusted by hubs.  It is in the interest of the hubs to create a safe environment for their users where asset names are unique, clear, and fairly assigned, without names that were created to deliberately confuse, mislead, or scam people, and without name squatting.  That's why the hubs are expected to trust only those registries whose policies meet their quality criteria.

Each hub can have its own set of criteria, here is what I would expect from a registry to be trusted:

- it should never register the same name to two different assets
- it should do its best to avoid registering a name that was already registered by another trusted registry to another asset (impossible to totally exclude e.g. if they make registrations at nearly the same time)
- it should not register names that are meant to mislead people.  E.g. names that are similar to existing ones, names using spelling tricks (lowercase L for uppercase I, etc), names that are already associated with something else (e.g. a random guy cannot apply to register "microsoft")
- it should not register dictionary words to avoid name squatting.  When the asset is still associated with a dictionary word, it must be qualified, e.g. with the owner's name.  For example, you can't register a "pizza" but can register "PapaJohnsPizza" or "DominosPizza".  The registries may use a hierarchical structure in such cases, e.g. papajohns.pizza, dominos.pizza, hawaiian.dominos.pizza.  The registry should verify the owner's name, either on its own, or relying on a third-party verification (such as attestation).  In any case, the responsibility is with the registry.
- invented words are OK.  E.g. it was OK to register "google" in 1997.

It all sounds similar to trademark registration, just more decentralized with multiple competing registries.

Registration is a manual process and takes some work and human judgement to validate each application.  That's why registries are supposed to charge a fee for their work.

If the same name is still registered to different assets by different registries, and both registries are trusted by the hub, the hub should append a suffix with the registry name to remove ambiguity in the wallets.  Otherwise, the suffix is not displayed to make the name shorter.

The end result is, asset names are unique and honest, making the environment safe for users.  This is different from other platforms (such as Waves) where duplicate names are allowed, anyone can register anything, and users have to be constantly on guard against scams.

------

Now, we still have 0 trusted registries on the default hub byteball.org and the assets in the wallets are still cryptic hashes.  My proposal is that we elect 1 or 2 registries to start with.  We already have a poll bot and can put it to use here.  If this sounds like a good idea, let's start with nominations.


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evok3d
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November 13, 2017, 05:42:45 PM
 #15042

i had a question regarding the decentralised nature of byteball. It seems that the smart contracts are just bots using some special features making them very centralised. Any comments or feedback would be great.


What do you mean? Smart contracts can be used by anyone. You probably mean the oracles? Like the time oracle, which is a node that posts timestamps. Its true there is only one at the moment. But anyone could create one and utilize it. Or even a bunch of them and creat a smart contract which uses 5 oracles as a source.

I am yet to find the protocols for a smart contract / smart contract code, is there a documentation explaining how to code a smart contract on byteball?

My comment is based on: https://github.com/byteball/ico-bot

Which is just a bot to run the ICO to interact with the database. Which is not really a smart contract.

you might want to take a look at this page: https://github.com/byteball/byteballcore/wiki/Writing-chatbots-for-Byteball
If you want to take a look at conditional payment in action, feel free to connect to my bot #freebe. And play around with the sell and buy command. It will offer you a smart contract that way.

but that is still a bot operating with byteball. it is not very decentralised nor is it a "smart contract". Am i wrong here?

Hmm,  whats your definition of decentralised and "smart contract"? In my opinion it is very much decentralised in my example.
#freebe is a bot i wrote myself. i am not connected with the byteball developers in any way.

I create smart contracts between freebe and its users. for example to give a certain amount of bytes for blackbytes.
If freebe or the user wants to cash out this smart address (contract) the conditions are checked by the byteball network, not by the user it self or by freebe.
If the network nodes agree that a cerain condition of the contract is met, the user or me can pay out the contract.

I appreciate your feedback. I understand what you mean, though therein lies the problem. You are hosting this bot on a server. As far as the concept of decentralization goes, your bot is sitting in a central server, open to corruption, spam, being blocked, hacks, modification etc.

The standard method is to have the smart contract run directly on the chain without external bots or participants.

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evok3d
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November 13, 2017, 05:43:04 PM
 #15043

i had a question regarding the decentralised nature of byteball. It seems that the smart contracts are just bots using some special features making them very centralised. Any comments or feedback would be great.


What do you mean? Smart contracts can be used by anyone. You probably mean the oracles? Like the time oracle, which is a node that posts timestamps. Its true there is only one at the moment. But anyone could create one and utilize it. Or even a bunch of them and creat a smart contract which uses 5 oracles as a source.

I am yet to find the protocols for a smart contract / smart contract code, is there a documentation explaining how to code a smart contract on byteball?

My comment is based on: https://github.com/byteball/ico-bot

Which is just a bot to run the ICO to interact with the database. Which is not really a smart contract.

you might want to take a look at this page: https://github.com/byteball/byteballcore/wiki/Writing-chatbots-for-Byteball
If you want to take a look at conditional payment in action, feel free to connect to my bot #freebe. And play around with the sell and buy command. It will offer you a smart contract that way.

but that is still a bot operating with byteball. it is not very decentralised nor is it a "smart contract". Am i wrong here?

I think you are searching for this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1617816.0

Awesome, thank you very much.

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November 13, 2017, 05:56:49 PM
 #15044


You bet against the market (binaryballs.com makes the counterpart as a market maker).

So, basically I bet against you, right? Could you be a little more transparent on how you calculate payoff? From what I see, you offer to make 1Gb bet against yours 0.8Gb. This seems to be pretty high house edge. Most bitcoin casinos offer like 0.5% house edge.


You can say that yes. It is not a casino. The payout rate varies function of the choosen market and the active contracts on that market. For example if there is a need to cover on a pair because there are a lot of "down" contract you may expect to see a 95% net return or even more on a "up" contract.

Byteball payment gateway for web merchants https://byteball-for-merchants.com/ - BEEB  (Blackbytes Exchange Bot): https://www.beeb-bot.com/ (closed)
Network map, stats, Top Richests and Byteball world map at https://byteball.fr/ (closed) - Hub operator featuring the cashback witness https://byteball-cashback-witness.com (closed)
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November 13, 2017, 06:01:11 PM
 #15045

Was Distribution skipped in Oct or something? Huh  I haven't opened my Byteball wallet for a while until recently.  I saw that I got an airdrop on 9-6 and then another on 11-4.  I have not touched my wallet for months, I'm wondering what happened to the Oct airdrop?

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tonych
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November 13, 2017, 06:10:50 PM
 #15046

Version 1.11.5 released https://github.com/byteball/byteball/releases

This is a bugfix release that fixes the remaining "removing stable units" errors and fixes payment requests that were broken in 1.11.3.

This may be a stupid question but is it safe to upgrade directly to this latest wallet version from a very old one after skipping updates? I'm asking because with IOTA this caused issues for users who missed on crucial steps that were required with some of the updates. Thanks!

Yes it is safe.  Just be prepared that the database upgrade will take some time when the wallet starts for the 1st time after the upgrade.  A backup would never hurt.

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November 13, 2017, 06:19:56 PM
 #15047

Was Distribution skipped in Oct or something? Huh  I haven't opened my Byteball wallet for a while until recently.  I saw that I got an airdrop on 9-6 and then another on 11-4.  I have not touched my wallet for months, I'm wondering what happened to the Oct airdrop?

There was no airdrop in October.

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tonych
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November 13, 2017, 06:22:18 PM
 #15048

i had a question regarding the decentralised nature of byteball. It seems that the smart contracts are just bots using some special features making them very centralised. Any comments or feedback would be great.


What do you mean? Smart contracts can be used by anyone. You probably mean the oracles? Like the time oracle, which is a node that posts timestamps. Its true there is only one at the moment. But anyone could create one and utilize it. Or even a bunch of them and creat a smart contract which uses 5 oracles as a source.

I am yet to find the protocols for a smart contract / smart contract code, is there a documentation explaining how to code a smart contract on byteball?

The white paper https://byteball.org/Byteball.pdf, section 21.

My comment is based on: https://github.com/byteball/ico-bot

Which is just a bot to run the ICO to interact with the database. Which is not really a smart contract.

This particular bot doesn't use smart contracts.  There is another one https://github.com/byteball/conditional-token-sale that sells tokens based on smart contracts, but for ICOs, they are not really required.  There is no problem that a smart contract would solve when you still have to trust the team that they will build what they promise to build.

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November 13, 2017, 06:31:19 PM
 #15049


You bet against the market (binaryballs.com makes the counterpart as a market maker).

So, basically I bet against you, right? Could you be a little more transparent on how you calculate payoff? From what I see, you offer to make 1Gb bet against yours 0.8Gb. This seems to be pretty high house edge. Most bitcoin casinos offer like 0.5% house edge.


You can say that yes. It is not a casino. The payout rate varies function of the choosen market and the active contracts on that market. For example if there is a need to cover on a pair because there are a lot of "down" contract you may expect to see a 95% net return or even more on a "up" contract.

Could you display info about number of current contracts on your page for the sake of transparency? If there are many "down" contracts and no "up" contracts, I would expect something like 10x payout if I bet "up", not 95%. If there are equal amount of "down" and "up" contracts, the fair payout would be 2x, or 100%.

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November 13, 2017, 06:35:04 PM
 #15050

Very quick question about distribution:
I received my bytes from the airdrop but not the blackbytes. Is it normal?



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November 13, 2017, 06:37:37 PM
 #15051

i had a question regarding the decentralised nature of byteball. It seems that the smart contracts are just bots using some special features making them very centralised. Any comments or feedback would be great.


What do you mean? Smart contracts can be used by anyone. You probably mean the oracles? Like the time oracle, which is a node that posts timestamps. Its true there is only one at the moment. But anyone could create one and utilize it. Or even a bunch of them and creat a smart contract which uses 5 oracles as a source.

I am yet to find the protocols for a smart contract / smart contract code, is there a documentation explaining how to code a smart contract on byteball?

The white paper https://byteball.org/Byteball.pdf, section 21.

My comment is based on: https://github.com/byteball/ico-bot

Which is just a bot to run the ICO to interact with the database. Which is not really a smart contract.

This particular bot doesn't use smart contracts.  There is another one https://github.com/byteball/conditional-token-sale that sells tokens based on smart contracts, but for ICOs, they are not really required.  There is no problem that a smart contract would solve when you still have to trust the team that they will build what they promise to build.


Thanks for the response.

I am not that interested in trusting the people doing the ICO's as much as i am in the bots and how they function within the system.

As i had mentioned :



Hmm,  whats your definition of decentralised and "smart contract"? In my opinion it is very much decentralised in my example.
#freebe is a bot i wrote myself. i am not connected with the byteball developers in any way.

I create smart contracts between freebe and its users. for example to give a certain amount of bytes for blackbytes.
If freebe or the user wants to cash out this smart address (contract) the conditions are checked by the byteball network, not by the user it self or by freebe.
If the network nodes agree that a cerain condition of the contract is met, the user or me can pay out the contract.

I appreciate your feedback. I understand what you mean, though therein lies the problem. You are hosting this bot on a server. As far as the concept of decentralization goes, your bot is sitting in a central server, open to corruption, spam, being blocked, hacks, modification etc.

The standard method is to have the smart contract run directly on the chain without external bots or participants.

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clovis A.
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November 13, 2017, 06:38:42 PM
 #15052

Super duper stoked about the wallet updates released over the weekend. The sync performance has been vastly improved and is doing wonders for my full client. 

I haven't been fully synced since mid September, but she's gaining ground rapidly now, thanks to the lastest update. Soon, I'll get to actually see the bytes and blackbytes from the November airdrop

Thanks for hooking us up, tonych!!

peace

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Cloud storage is about to change
                          Are you ready?
muleroaa
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November 13, 2017, 06:50:48 PM
 #15053

Is the next airdrop happening in December? I think the last full moon was around 3/4 November?

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Michail1
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November 13, 2017, 06:53:09 PM
 #15054

Very quick question about distribution:
I received my bytes from the airdrop but not the blackbytes. Is it normal?


Since you think it's a quick question, I will give you a quick answer.

No.


Is the next airdrop happening in December? I think the last full moon was around 3/4 November?

No.
Correct.



ByteFan
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November 13, 2017, 07:13:42 PM
 #15055

If there are equal amount of "down" and "up" contracts, the fair payout would be 2x, or 100%.


Of course you will never see that because there is the margin of the house in the middle. It is not a casino but it is a business that means it is supposed to bring profit after dev get paid, hosting paid, promotion cost and market-making risk capital expenses...

Byteball payment gateway for web merchants https://byteball-for-merchants.com/ - BEEB  (Blackbytes Exchange Bot): https://www.beeb-bot.com/ (closed)
Network map, stats, Top Richests and Byteball world map at https://byteball.fr/ (closed) - Hub operator featuring the cashback witness https://byteball-cashback-witness.com (closed)
IckyYak22871
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November 13, 2017, 07:27:19 PM
 #15056

If there are equal amount of "down" and "up" contracts, the fair payout would be 2x, or 100%.


Of course you will never see that because there is the margin of the house in the middle. It is not a casino but it is a business that means it is supposed to bring profit after dev get paid, hosting paid, promotion cost and market-making risk capital expenses...

I am not against a house edge, it is absolutely fair to charge a fee for providing service, but your house edge seem to be pretty high to me. That is why I am asking to provide more details on how exactly you calculate payouts and how much you keep for yourself.

Blockchain (or DAG) based business is all about transparency. Without transparency why bother about these technologies?

zhou2
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November 13, 2017, 07:29:15 PM
 #15057

Did I miss something? A price jump of 34%.

Telum
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November 13, 2017, 07:49:33 PM
 #15058

Did I miss something? A price jump of 34%.

Not sure... could be a pump & dump when you consider it happened exactly at 9.00 UTC. Since the weekend there is lot of money floating around.

Wanted to accumulate some for myself but now iam waiting 1 or 2 days... Think anyway this project could play a major role in future.

Are there any new infos for next airdrop? Is there still potential for airdrop?
Michail1
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November 13, 2017, 07:50:20 PM
 #15059

Did I miss something? A price jump of 34%.

Looks like you didn't miss it to me.   Smiley   Thanks for pointing it out, now I am gonna do ..... nothing.  Hodl!

kola-schaar
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November 13, 2017, 08:20:30 PM
 #15060

Version 1.11.3 released https://github.com/byteball/byteball/releases

* Added support for user friendly asset names.  However you will see the names in the wallet only after we set up the registries.  More about it later.

Sorry for the delay, recent wallet issues took too much time.  This is how the registry system is supposed to work.

Asset names are supposed to be assigned by trusted users/businesses called registries.  Any number of registries can exist, and each hub will have a list of registries it trusts.  Only names assigned by trusted registries will be broadcast to wallets connected to the hub.

The registries post data records like this https://explorer.byteball.org/#kYdnCr84pe/T7QJRLV0Yknf24+n9K9c9AGZclgS8WVA=
Pay attention to the Data section of this unit:
Code:
asset: 9x6ZmDXonsyLhv2lEc5snj04MPiQ8tMq7m8qSJLac8o=
name: tonycoin
decimals: 2
It says that registry 3Y24IXW57546PQAPQ2SXYEPEDNX4KC6Y (the author of this unit) assigned name "tonycoin" to asset 9x6ZmDXonsyLhv2lEc5snj04MPiQ8tMq7m8qSJLac8o= and its amounts must be displayed with 2 decimal places.

Anyone can post such a record and be a self-proclaimed registry, they need to use only the standard wallet with its recently added data posting functionality.

However, to make these names visible by users, the registry must be trusted by hubs.  It is in the interest of the hubs to create a safe environment for their users where asset names are unique, clear, and fairly assigned, without names that were created to deliberately confuse, mislead, or scam people, and without name squatting.  That's why the hubs are expected to trust only those registries whose policies meet their quality criteria.

Each hub can have its own set of criteria, here is what I would expect from a registry to be trusted:

- it should never register the same name to two different assets
- it should do its best to avoid registering a name that was already registered by another trusted registry to another asset (impossible to totally exclude e.g. if they make registrations at nearly the same time)
- it should not register names that are meant to mislead people.  E.g. names that are similar to existing ones, names using spelling tricks (lowercase L for uppercase I, etc), names that are already associated with something else (e.g. a random guy cannot apply to register "microsoft")
- it should not register dictionary words to avoid name squatting.  When the asset is still associated with a dictionary word, it must be qualified, e.g. with the owner's name.  For example, you can't register a "pizza" but can register "PapaJohnsPizza" or "DominosPizza".  The registries may use a hierarchical structure in such cases, e.g. papajohns.pizza, dominos.pizza, hawaiian.dominos.pizza.  The registry should verify the owner's name, either on its own, or relying on a third-party verification (such as attestation).  In any case, the responsibility is with the registry.
- invented words are OK.  E.g. it was OK to register "google" in 1997.

It all sounds similar to trademark registration, just more decentralized with multiple competing registries.

Registration is a manual process and takes some work and human judgement to validate each application.  That's why registries are supposed to charge a fee for their work.

If the same name is still registered to different assets by different registries, and both registries are trusted by the hub, the hub should append a suffix with the registry name to remove ambiguity in the wallets.  Otherwise, the suffix is not displayed to make the name shorter.

The end result is, asset names are unique and honest, making the environment safe for users.  This is different from other platforms (such as Waves) where duplicate names are allowed, anyone can register anything, and users have to be constantly on guard against scams.

------

Now, we still have 0 trusted registries on the default hub byteball.org and the assets in the wallets are still cryptic hashes.  My proposal is that we elect 1 or 2 registries to start with.  We already have a poll bot and can put it to use here.  If this sounds like a good idea, let's start with nominations.


That sounds good, Tony. I would be very happy to try the poll bot. Another milestone, nicely done! Smiley
(I think that's worth a Fullquote...)  Wink
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