Obyte: Totally new consensus algorithm + private untraceable payments

[tarmo888]

So, once again, what were the reasons for choosing lottery over equal distribution to holders? I wasn't following the discussion if there was one but I'm sure there were some solid points for such decision.

Don't know the exact reasons, but here are possible reasons:
* the goal of the distribution fund is NOT to spend it as fast as possible. long distribution is preferred because long distribution will give free bytes to more users than just some early adopters.
* Bitcoin airdrop showed that distributing equally to all based on how much they already had didn't create adoption, just more sell off.
* the bigger the lottery reward in real world the more participants it usually draws into it. this worked in the beginning, but new participants on Draw Airdrop has stalled now.
* draw airdrop has predictable 200-400 GB cost after each 2 weeks.
* there are around 500 000 addresses with any history on Obyte.
* each storage unit fits around 100 payment transactions.
* the fee for 500 000 addresses would be up to 275MB (depending how many transactions in each unit and how much to set the minimum balance for airdrop).
* sending transaction to all addresses would waste up to 275MB of every full node disk space.

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[JesusCryptos]

The funds are not meant to give away to institutions, they are meant to be distributed to users.

I didn't think I should explain it in full, but since you don't get it I will. Obyte's original plan was to have institutions to act as witnesses. Ask Tonych if you don't believe it. This is difficult, as Tonych lately said. Nevertheless, this goal should still be pursued. Offering bytes to them could ease things. Anyway, they would not accept them if they are not interested, since they wouldn't understand the usefulness of accepting.  It is written "distribution do Institution" but it reads "onboarding institution."

Do you have proof (actual data) that draw airdrop is harming the project or that's just your opinion?

Only my skills in logic, but I understand this will sound very mysterious to you.
As of the argument that it is not producing adoption - which is actually my point - this is self evident, all the bytes go to single people who have already adopted Obyte, which means zero new adopters added.

* draw airdrop [...] motivates people to hold the bytes, exactly what some people asked for, a motivation to hold.

Yes, it will motivate idiots. You are a dev I guess, have you ever heard of the laws of probability? Lotteries appeal only to VERY stupid people who can't understand probabilities. You have usually a higher chance of getting in a car accident than to win at a lottery - so to base your actions on the hope to win a lottery is totally stupid. Moreover, why would you have to win a "positive" lottery? Perhaps the lottery you end up winning a negative lottery instead - ie the car accident one. So my question now is: is Obyte's plan that of selecting idiots as preferred holders? I guess you know how natural selection works.
By the way, I am holding my bytes - but NOT because of the lottery. In spite of the lottery. I hold bytes because I believe in the project, which is NOT a stupid reason to hold bytes - as it instead would be the lottery reason.

* Developer contest for Autonomous agents happens also after every 2 weeks.
* Around 2-3 GB per day is distributed on World Community Grid
* There is also Real Name attestation

I have acknowledged that there are good ways of distribution, and I deeply respect that. I was just asking for more in substitution of the idiotic way. If there is no new good way, just keep the bytes until a good way appears. I've mentioned the Hedera Hashgraph example for a good reason: patience is an option.

* Then there is grants program, which is not only for developers, anyone can write a proposal project document, but not many do. I guess it is too much work to actually do something that would benefit the community, everybody just wants stuff for free. https://medium.com/obyte/byteball-grants-program-906a71b93d3c

I have to admit I was unaware of the grants for non-developers and I apologize for that. Happy to hear there is this option. Perhaps this part should be put in better evidence for the community.

You can come up with better methods and share it with the community, but you probably won't come up with anything better (more viral and less abused)

If I'll get any precise idea I surely will. I agree it is not easy. The only easy thing to do is to abolish the stupid lottery.

All I can see is that you think that somebody should just give you free bytes for actually not doing anything really, just for writing a random misinformed Bitcointalk post.

You are a dev but you can't properly read or count or both or more likely you may have problems to understand what you've read. Read again. Read better. I've been asking just for 2 bytes - or 2 cents, at your choice. It's probably one of the rare cases in Obyte where to send this "free money" has higher fees that the value of what you would be actually sending.

[StandingTall]

Talking to tarmo888 is a waste of time. There's zero chance he will change his mind. It has never happened before and it will never happen. The only thing that always happens is a toxic discussion, name calling and eventually invectives. It always happened before and will always happen. With anybody trying. Again. And again. No matter the arguments you will come up with. It's better to spend your time on something more enjoyable. You can send me 2 cents for saving you time and preventing debilitating frustration.

[andreibi]

Well, I don't think any current style of distribution works toward adoption. It is a catch-22 situation. What is the use of having a bit of bytes if no one will accept it as payment or you can't spend it anywhere. It is the reason the Bitcoin holder airdrop failed because they don't value the airdrop coins. Maybe some big partnership is needed before any distribution is continued.

[coinpreacher]

Should be started from scratch.

Same code, but with at least one person understanding marketing. Restart as a stable coin pegged to eur / us / Y or something.

Coca Cola just puts regular water into plastic bottles and the enduser price is x10. If you don't how to turn your product into something
valuable: ask a professional.

[tarmo888]

The funds are not meant to give away to institutions, they are meant to be distributed to users.

I didn't think I should explain it in full, but since you don't get it I will. Obyte's original plan was to have institutions to act as witnesses. Ask Tonych if you don't believe it. This is difficult, as Tonych lately said. Nevertheless, this goal should still be pursued. Offering bytes to them could ease things. Anyway, they would not accept them if they are not interested, since they wouldn't understand the usefulness of accepting.  It is written "distribution do Institution" but it reads "onboarding institution."

That's makes even less sense. Your great idea is that we should pay companies to become witnesses? Like that is somehow going to work out great.
Or are you suggesting we should cover the fees of doing the witnesses? I am afraid you haven't even researched how witnessing works or how little is needed to run a witness.

* draw airdrop [...] motivates people to hold the bytes, exactly what some people asked for, a motivation to hold.

Yes, it will motivate idiots. You are a dev I guess, have you ever heard of the laws of probability? Lotteries appeal only to VERY stupid people who can't understand probabilities. You have usually a higher chance of getting in a car accident than to win at a lottery - so to base your actions on the hope to win a lottery is totally stupid. Moreover, why would you have to win a "positive" lottery? Perhaps the lottery you end up winning a negative lottery instead - ie the car accident one. So my question now is: is Obyte's plan that of selecting idiots as preferred holders? I guess you know how natural selection works.
By the way, I am holding my bytes - but NOT because of the lottery. In spite of the lottery. I hold bytes because I believe in the project, which is NOT a stupid reason to hold bytes - as it instead would be the lottery reason.

Seems like you just have heard somewhere that lottery is stupid and now applying it to everything that mentions lottery, but Draw Airdrop mentions lottery just because it has elements of lottery, but is nothing like actual lottery.

Draw airdrop doesn't have the same risks that regular lotteries have. Normal lottery is stupid because there is almost certain downside of loosing the ticket price and unlikely chance of winning.
Regular lottery is stupid because you lose $1 and you have 1 of million chance of winning $1 million (minus taxes), you could just donate to government directly instead of participating in lottery.
Draw airdrop, it doesn't cost you anything to participate and you have 1 of 5500 chance of winning 100GB or 1 of 550 chance of winning 100GB if you have done Real Name attestation, which is not comparable how bad regular lottery is. Your only risk is that GBYTE value can go down.

I have acknowledged that there are good ways of distribution, and I deeply respect that. I was just asking for more in substitution of the idiotic way. If there is no new good way, just keep the bytes until a good way appears. I've mentioned the Hedera Hashgraph example for a good reason: patience is an option.

Cannot please everyone, some say that the distribution fund should be spent faster, some say it should be on hold. I think it should have predictable distribution rate, that's probably why the draw airdrop was not totally cancelled, but reduced by exactly the amount that the new distribution, developer contest, spends every 2 weeks. So, the distribution rate would stay the same.

Do you have proof (actual data) that draw airdrop is harming the project or that's just your opinion?

Only my skills in logic, but I understand this will sound very mysterious to you.
As of the argument that it is not producing adoption - which is actually my point - this is self evident, all the bytes go to single people who have already adopted Obyte, which means zero new adopters added.

That's a sh1tty excuse for not doing some research. Actually data is always more important than somebody's opinion. Opinions are like assh0les, everyone has one.
One look at CoinmarketCap and you could have said something smart like: "changing the draw airdrop from every week to every 2 weeks has reduced the trading volume", but you didn't do that. I bet you could not run a successful company by just counting on your gut feeling and not the data. I don't have any data that draw lottery raises or lowers the price, it just seems it affects the volume.

* Then there is grants program, which is not only for developers, anyone can write a proposal project document, but not many do. I guess it is too much work to actually do something that would benefit the community, everybody just wants stuff for free. https://medium.com/obyte/byteball-grants-program-906a71b93d3c

I have to admit I was unaware of the grants for non-developers and I apologize for that. Happy to hear there is this option. Perhaps this part should be put in better evidence for the community.

Another example that you are not into doing some research first before voicing your opinion.

Second of all, pay me a bounty for having suggesting you one first right thing to do.
My two cents - or bytes.

All I can see is that you think that somebody should just give you free bytes for actually not doing anything really, just for writing a random misinformed Bitcointalk post.

You are a dev but you can't properly read or count or both or more likely you may have problems to understand what you've read. Read again. Read better. I've been asking just for 2 bytes - or 2 cents, at your choice. It's probably one of the rare cases in Obyte where to send this "free money" has higher fees that the value of what you would be actually sending.

I think it is you who has problems with reading and writing, you literally say that somebody should pay you a bounty for Bitcointalk post.
"My two cents" expression is used to state that you had an opinion, not how much the bounty should be. Learn English and don't use expressions which you don't have idea when to use them!

[tarmo888]

Talking to tarmo888 is a waste of time. There's zero chance he will change his mind. It has never happened before and it will never happen. The only thing that always happens is a toxic discussion, name calling and eventually invectives. It always happened before and will always happen. With anybody trying. Again. And again. No matter the arguments you will come up with. It's better to spend your time on something more enjoyable. You can send me 2 cents for saving you time and preventing debilitating frustration.

Not any arguments, bring on the good arguments. Preferably something backed with data, not just opinions, we have internally bunch of opinions too, which are quite useless if they can't be proved.

You used to post normal posts, but it seems that it is you who has turned toxic lately. All you do now is post animated gifs and FUD. Maybe you are pissed that you bags are worthless now, but I can't see how posting FUD will help that, seems like you are digging bigger crave to your bags with every new FUD post.

[maxray]

Talking to tarmo888 is a waste of time. There's zero chance he will change his mind. It has never happened before and it will never happen. The only thing that always happens is a toxic discussion, name calling and eventually invectives. It always happened before and will always happen. With anybody trying. Again. And again. No matter the arguments you will come up with. It's better to spend your time on something more enjoyable. You can send me 2 cents for saving you time and preventing debilitating frustration.

Not any arguments, bring on the good arguments. Preferably something backed with data, not just opinions, we have internally bunch of opinions too, which are quite useless if they can't be proved.

You used to post normal posts, but it seems that it is you who has turned toxic lately. All you do now is post animated gifs and FUD. Maybe you are pissed that you bags are worthless now, but I can't see how posting FUD will help that, seems like you are digging bigger crave to your bags with every new FUD post.

The market is very bad, many people slowly lose confidence

[tarmo888]

Talking to tarmo888 is a waste of time. There's zero chance he will change his mind. It has never happened before and it will never happen. The only thing that always happens is a toxic discussion, name calling and eventually invectives. It always happened before and will always happen. With anybody trying. Again. And again. No matter the arguments you will come up with. It's better to spend your time on something more enjoyable. You can send me 2 cents for saving you time and preventing debilitating frustration.

Not any arguments, bring on the good arguments. Preferably something backed with data, not just opinions, we have internally bunch of opinions too, which are quite useless if they can't be proved.

You used to post normal posts, but it seems that it is you who has turned toxic lately. All you do now is post animated gifs and FUD. Maybe you are pissed that you bags are worthless now, but I can't see how posting FUD will help that, seems like you are digging bigger crave to your bags with every new FUD post.

The market is very bad, many people slowly lose confidence

Same with every other coin out there after almost 2 years of bear market.

[andreibi]

Talking to tarmo888 is a waste of time. There's zero chance he will change his mind. It has never happened before and it will never happen. The only thing that always happens is a toxic discussion, name calling and eventually invectives. It always happened before and will always happen. With anybody trying. Again. And again. No matter the arguments you will come up with. It's better to spend your time on something more enjoyable. You can send me 2 cents for saving you time and preventing debilitating frustration.

Not any arguments, bring on the good arguments. Preferably something backed with data, not just opinions, we have internally bunch of opinions too, which are quite useless if they can't be proved.

You used to post normal posts, but it seems that it is you who has turned toxic lately. All you do now is post animated gifs and FUD. Maybe you are pissed that you bags are worthless now, but I can't see how posting FUD will help that, seems like you are digging bigger crave to your bags with every new FUD post.

The market is very bad, many people slowly lose confidence

Same with every other coin out there after almost 2 years of bear market.

Exactly. In fact on most of the threads I have bags on, most posts are just complaints and incessant whining. I guess it can't be helped that people lose their shit when their coin investment lost 95% of its value. And not a single coin was spared.

[jwinterm]

Talking to tarmo888 is a waste of time. There's zero chance he will change his mind. It has never happened before and it will never happen. The only thing that always happens is a toxic discussion, name calling and eventually invectives. It always happened before and will always happen. With anybody trying. Again. And again. No matter the arguments you will come up with. It's better to spend your time on something more enjoyable. You can send me 2 cents for saving you time and preventing debilitating frustration.

Not any arguments, bring on the good arguments. Preferably something backed with data, not just opinions, we have internally bunch of opinions too, which are quite useless if they can't be proved.

You used to post normal posts, but it seems that it is you who has turned toxic lately. All you do now is post animated gifs and FUD. Maybe you are pissed that you bags are worthless now, but I can't see how posting FUD will help that, seems like you are digging bigger crave to your bags with every new FUD post.

The market is very bad, many people slowly lose confidence

Same with every other coin out there after almost 2 years of bear market.

Exactly. In fact on most of the threads I have bags on, most posts are just complaints and incessant whining. I guess it can't be helped that people lose their shit when their coin investment lost 95% of its value. And not a single coin was spared.

Bitcoin is down a little over 50% from all time high. Byteballs are down over 98% from ath. Not exactly the same level of destruction there.

[tbct_mt2]

Bitcoin is down a little over 50% from all time high. Byteballs are down over 98% from ath. Not exactly the same level of destruction there.

How about other top altcoins when you compare their prices today to their all time high prices? It is not too bad for Obyte if you compare percentage of loss from all time high to today price.
I know how investors who bought Obyte (Byteball) and other top altcoins at all time highs, and still held their coins by now. It is not comfortable feeling, I know. In contrast, if someone have spare money to use for investment now, they can determinantly do this with very good profitable potential in coming weeks or months.
I can not deny the fact that hoping altcoins recovering to their all time highs, in both BTC or USDT pairs is unrealistic, so my advice is selling when they move upwards around 30 percent, and wait dips to buy them back. Repeats that trading strategies for several rounds, then some months later, investors who bought at all time highs can get their capital back. It's not easy, and it costs lots of time, but it will do help them.

[tarmo888]

The market is very bad, many people slowly lose confidence

Same with every other coin out there after almost 2 years of bear market.

Exactly. In fact on most of the threads I have bags on, most posts are just complaints and incessant whining. I guess it can't be helped that people lose their shit when their coin investment lost 95% of its value. And not a single coin was spared.

Bitcoin is down a little over 50% from all time high. Byteballs are down over 98% from ath. Not exactly the same level of destruction there.

Are you sure that it is not even worse destruction for a market leader who should be bit more stable? That "little over 50% drop is f-ing 150 billion dollars gone from Bitcoin marketcap. That's billion with the B. There was lot of real hard-earned money in there. Most of Obyte holders are those who got the bytes for free, no institutional investors here.

[naska21]

Should be started from scratch.

Same code, but with at least one person understanding marketing. Restart as a stable coin pegged to eur / us / Y or something.

Coca Cola just puts regular water into plastic bottles and the enduser price is x10. If you don't how to turn your product into something
valuable: ask a professional.

Agree, seems right now  Obyte is out of touch with the ppl needs . Formally, the Obyte foundation has been created, but the results of its activities are not yet visible and marketing, if any, is doing turtle steps.

[pineapple express]

The market is very bad, many people slowly lose confidence

Same with every other coin out there after almost 2 years of bear market.

Exactly. In fact on most of the threads I have bags on, most posts are just complaints and incessant whining. I guess it can't be helped that people lose their shit when their coin investment lost 95% of its value. And not a single coin was spared.

Bitcoin is down a little over 50% from all time high. Byteballs are down over 98% from ath. Not exactly the same level of destruction there.

Are you sure that it is not even worse destruction for a market leader who should be bit more stable? That "little over 50% drop is f-ing 150 billion dollars gone from Bitcoin marketcap. That's billion with the B. There was lot of real hard-earned money in there. Most of Obyte holders are those who got the bytes for free, no institutional investors here.

marketcap has little to do with money in orders
150 billion dollars dump could be caused with 500 millions total sell for example. Usually this rate will be very low fir coins from #3 and lower. Like you need $100k sell to dump obyte below $1m cap

[allwelder]

A much long time did not follow byteball,now changed to Obyte.
What's the most important updates for users to get?
As a Delegates DAG coin,create a fully new vision for adoption,but seems the marketcap is not satisfactory.

[mishax1]

A much long time did not follow byteball,now changed to Obyte.
What's the most important updates for users to get?
As a Delegates DAG coin,create a fully new vision for adoption,but seems the marketcap is not satisfactory.

and more importantly, are there any users left ?

[tarmo888]

A much long time did not follow byteball,now changed to Obyte.
What's the most important updates for users to get?
As a Delegates DAG coin,create a fully new vision for adoption,but seems the marketcap is not satisfactory.

http://press.obyte.org/timeline

[tarmo888]

The market is very bad, many people slowly lose confidence

Same with every other coin out there after almost 2 years of bear market.

Exactly. In fact on most of the threads I have bags on, most posts are just complaints and incessant whining. I guess it can't be helped that people lose their shit when their coin investment lost 95% of its value. And not a single coin was spared.

Bitcoin is down a little over 50% from all time high. Byteballs are down over 98% from ath. Not exactly the same level of destruction there.

Are you sure that it is not even worse destruction for a market leader who should be bit more stable? That "little over 50% drop is f-ing 150 billion dollars gone from Bitcoin marketcap. That's billion with the B. There was lot of real hard-earned money in there. Most of Obyte holders are those who got the bytes for free, no institutional investors here.

marketcap has little to do with money in orders
150 billion dollars dump could be caused with 500 millions total sell for example. Usually this rate will be very low fir coins from #3 and lower. Like you need $100k sell to dump obyte below $1m cap

it's a not a temporary price swing, there were many people who traded billions of dollars worth of Bitcoin when it was near 20k and now 150 billion of dollars worth of value has gone from their portfolio. You can loose more money with market leader drops 50% then when altcoin drops 95%. All depends on individual investor portfolio, but even if you held the total supply of GBYTE, you would have lost only 1/150 of what Bitcoin lost in value combined.

[tarmo888]

Should be started from scratch.

Same code, but with at least one person understanding marketing. Restart as a stable coin pegged to eur / us / Y or something.

Coca Cola just puts regular water into plastic bottles and the enduser price is x10. If you don't how to turn your product into something
valuable: ask a professional.

Agree, seems right now  Obyte is out of touch with the ppl needs . Formally, the Obyte foundation has been created, but the results of its activities are not yet visible and marketing, if any, is doing turtle steps.

If people need is fiat-backed stablecoin then I think these people have missunderstood one of the main points of any cryptocurrencies.
None of the fiat-backed cryptocurrencies are decentralized, you basically trust some company that they will give you back the fiat currency of your bags worth. There are many coins like that, basically every exchange creates one now, go load up your bags.

Anybody can make stablecoin collateralized with bytes on Obyte, make a grant proposal if you have a team to build it, autonomous agents will enable you to make them decentralized way, but native token pegged to USD just doesn't make sense.