Bitcoin Forum
August 13, 2020, 06:17:08 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 0.20.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 ... 999 1000 1001 1002 1003 1004 1005 1006 1007 1008 1009 1010 1011 1012 1013 1014 1015 1016 1017 1018 1019 1020 1021 1022 1023 1024 1025 1026 1027 1028 1029 1030 1031 1032 1033 1034 1035 1036 1037 1038 1039 1040 1041 1042 1043 1044 1045 1046 1047 1048 [1049] 1050 1051 1052 1053 1054 1055 1056 1057 1058 1059 1060 1061 1062 1063 1064 1065 1066 1067 1068 1069 1070 1071 1072 1073 1074 1075 1076 1077 1078 1079 1080 1081 1082 1083 1084 1085 1086 1087 1088 1089 1090 1091 1092 1093 1094 1095 1096 1097 1098 1099 ... 1115 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Obyte: Totally new consensus algorithm + private untraceable payments  (Read 1216842 times)
tarmo888
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 450
Merit: 41


View Profile WWW
November 14, 2018, 07:07:03 PM
 #20961

Quote
What can they force those witnesses to do?
Convince all of them to censor some specific transactions?
20 years of jail

Quote
Even if they manage to convince 7 witnesses to do something that specific, all of those 7 witnesses will be replaced with hard-fork.
good luck finding people who want to spend the rest of their days in prison

With that Liberty Reserve example, you are missing the key point, they got busted because of money laundering, the same way how exchanges that doesn't require KYC will get busted with money laundering (or no bank will not accept them if they haven't done it). Byteball witnesses have nothing to do with fiat currencies and bots that accept credit cards also do KYC.
You can be right, but cannot guarantee it.
Decentralized, trustless systems are good because they create a situation in which malicious behavior causes losses, while following the rules makes a profit. Thus, the system remains protected even if each of its participants ready to become malicious.
Your model say "Government won't do any harm because i believe they won't do any harm".
In a crypto community, it is customary to trust systems based on economic initiatives and not on hopes.

Imagine situation. Satoshi, Ross Ulbricht, Mark Karpeles, Roger Ver and 8 other well known people are witnesses of Bitcoin. FBI arrest Ross, shut down SilkRoad. Do you really belive rest of witnesses will not be arrested?

Ross Ulbricht was not arrested because of Bitcoin, not even through Bitcoin. He was charged with drug trafficing, Mark Karpeles was charged with embezzlement. Roger Ver has convicted because of explosives.
"Cannot guarantee it" is not how governments work, you need to be convicted because of some law. Goal of Byteball witnesses is to have them around the world, so even if one gets arrested for something Byteball unrelated crime, they could be replaced. But if they are already in trouble with law then obviously they are not a good candidate for witness either, hence why they need to be public.
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
thehulkk
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 442
Merit: 10



View Profile
November 14, 2018, 07:15:47 PM
 #20962

At the time of release I did not own many BTC should not get many Byteball Bytes. Byteball Bytes is a very good coin, I paid attention to it as soon as it started to release. I continue to monitor its price and intend to buy large amounts of Byteball Bytes later this year. Hope somebody will give me good advice.

▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
Cannacor.io [/b]║Cannacor:Cannabis Cultivation║
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
barborrico
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 111
Merit: 2


View Profile
November 14, 2018, 07:18:14 PM
 #20963

Decentralized, trustless systems are good because they create a situation in which malicious behavior causes losses, while following the rules makes a profit. Thus, the system remains protected even if each of its participants ready to become malicious.
A witness has to have reputation and be known. It is a matter of image. And government/s has an image too. It has balance.


Your model say "Government won't do any harm because i believe they won't do any harm".
In a crypto community, it is customary to trust systems based on economic initiatives and not on hopes.
Imagine situation. Satoshi, Ross Ulbricht, Mark Karpeles, Roger Ver and 8 other well known people are witnesses of Bitcoin. FBI arrest Ross, shut down SilkRoad. Do you really belive rest of witnesses will not be arrested?

If each witness node (no person) does their job, they receive aprox 1/12 of the half of fees I post. They need bytes to post each 10 minutes or so. So it will be sustainable because simply users use the system.
This means that even with the node operator in jail, system still working because witnesses operators will have put their node in a safe location, out from the hands of anyone and routed by TOR, like Rogier did.

If witnesses are arrested due to being byteball witnesses, I can guarantee you, world would have become something that you would desire to be in the world of the 1984 novel.
pineapple express
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 630
Merit: 103



View Profile
November 14, 2018, 07:19:16 PM
 #20964

Quote
What can they force those witnesses to do?
Convince all of them to censor some specific transactions?
20 years of jail

Quote
Even if they manage to convince 7 witnesses to do something that specific, all of those 7 witnesses will be replaced with hard-fork.
good luck finding people who want to spend the rest of their days in prison

With that Liberty Reserve example, you are missing the key point, they got busted because of money laundering, the same way how exchanges that doesn't require KYC will get busted with money laundering (or no bank will not accept them if they haven't done it). Byteball witnesses have nothing to do with fiat currencies and bots that accept credit cards also do KYC.
You can be right, but cannot guarantee it.
Decentralized, trustless systems are good because they create a situation in which malicious behavior causes losses, while following the rules makes a profit. Thus, the system remains protected even if each of its participants ready to become malicious.
Your model say "Government won't do any harm because i believe they won't do any harm".
In a crypto community, it is customary to trust systems based on economic initiatives and not on hopes.

Imagine situation. Satoshi, Ross Ulbricht, Mark Karpeles, Roger Ver and 8 other well known people are witnesses of Bitcoin. FBI arrest Ross, shut down SilkRoad. Do you really belive rest of witnesses will not be arrested?

Ross Ulbricht was not arrested because of Bitcoin, not even through Bitcoin. He was charged with drug trafficing, Mark Karpeles was charged with embezzlement. Roger Ver has convicted because of explosives.
"Cannot guarantee it" is not how governments work, you need to be convicted because of some law. Goal of Byteball witnesses is to have them around the world, so even if one gets arrested for something Byteball unrelated crime, they could be replaced. But if they are already in trouble with law then obviously they are not a good candidate for witness either, hence why they need to be public.
you do not understand the essence of the written
pineapple express
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 630
Merit: 103



View Profile
November 14, 2018, 07:22:54 PM
Last edit: November 14, 2018, 07:36:00 PM by pineapple express
 #20965

Quote
If witnesses are arrested due to being byteball witnesses, I can guarantee you, world would have become something that you would desire to be in the world of the 1984 novel.
Many will agree that this will be the world in which we live now, where people ensuring the workability of payment processors used for illegal activities are imprisoned.
free, uncontrolled money is not what governments want to have. They will break any such system, provided they can.
Quote
Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks like Napster, but pure P2P networks like Gnutella and Tor seem to be holding their own.

Satoshi
Thul
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 140
Merit: 0


View Profile
November 14, 2018, 07:31:45 PM
 #20966

you do not understand the essence of the written

Question: How does a sectarian react to fundamental arguments?
Answer: With ignorance. It cannot be what may not be.
pineapple express
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 630
Merit: 103



View Profile
November 14, 2018, 07:45:24 PM
 #20967

anyway where the witnesses guys? No users, no merchants, no speculators, no holders, no witnesses and no adoption. You can not continue to say that speculators donkeys, holders are harmful, merchants are not about cryptocurrency. And that adoption is the main. These are contradictory statements.
without holders you don't have community. Without community you will not have the network effects
without speculators you don't have liquidity. Without liquidity you will not have merchants
without merchants you don't have use cases. Without use cases you will not have users
Without users the coin is a shitcoin. Who will want to be a witness of shitcoin?
tarmo888
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 450
Merit: 41


View Profile WWW
November 14, 2018, 08:00:25 PM
 #20968

anyway where the witnesses guys? No users, no merchants, no speculators, no holders, no witnesses and no adoption. You can not continue to say that speculators donkeys, holders are harmful, merchants are not about cryptocurrency. And that adoption is the main. These are contradictory statements.
without holders you don't have community. Without community you will not have the network effects
without speculators you don't have liquidity. Without liquidity you will not have merchants
without merchants you don't have use cases. Without use cases you will not have users
Without users the coin is a shitcoin. Who will want to be a witness of shitcoin?

You are contradicting yourself too, if there is no holders then who were those Bitcoin holders who got 65% of all bytes?
If those holders are selling, there should be either huge sell orders or lot of liquidity.

The problem is there is too many holders and not enough actual users. More speculators won't add any users because speculation happens on centralized exchanges and only exchanges benefit from speculators.

There are some use cases and there are some users (500-1000).
barborrico
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 111
Merit: 2


View Profile
November 14, 2018, 08:06:03 PM
Last edit: November 14, 2018, 11:46:35 PM by barborrico
 #20969

Quote
If witnesses are arrested due to being byteball witnesses, I can guarantee you, world would have become something that you would desire to be in the world of the 1984 novel.
Many will agree that this will be the world in which we live now, where people ensuring the workability of payment processors used for illegal activities are imprisoned.
free, uncontrolled money is not what government want to have. They will break any such system, provided they can.
Quote
Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks like Napster, but pure P2P networks like Gnutella and Tor seem to be holding their own.

Satoshi
The fact is byteball does not rely on witnesses, it uses them for their "own" benefit, which is achieve deterministic transaction finality and nothing more after that.

Byteball is P2P trustless. Yes, it is a bit ugly the transition between witnesses, but it is not supossed to happen as I said in previous posts.

Anyway you replied to my personal opinion, could you reply to the argument, please? Thank you.

you do not understand the essence of the written

Question: How does a sectarian react to fundamental arguments?
Answer: With ignorance. It cannot be what may not be.
Thanks for your lack of answers to my arguments. Makes my work of spreading truth much easier.


anyway where the witnesses guys? No users, no merchants, no speculators, no holders, no witnesses and no adoption. You can not continue to say that speculators donkeys, holders are harmful, merchants are not about cryptocurrency. And that adoption is the main. These are contradictory statements.
without holders you don't have community. Without community you will not have the network effects
without speculators you don't have liquidity. Without liquidity you will not have merchants
without merchants you don't have use cases. Without use cases you will not have users
Without users any coin is a shitcoin. You will not find good 12 witnesses for shitcoin
But we have a P2P network which achieves irreversible transaction confirmation in 5-15 min.

I would reward holders a bit, I have to tell, excluding big addresses.
pineapple express
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 630
Merit: 103



View Profile
November 14, 2018, 08:06:59 PM
Last edit: November 14, 2018, 08:44:14 PM by pineapple express
 #20970

Quote
If those holders are selling, there should be either huge sell orders or lot of liquidity.
either 1 year of endless dump and -99% of value at the end. But you right, there always will be holders. Holders that will sell to NEW holders at 50% loss. New holders will sell to very new holders at 50% loss and so on. Until price will not fall from $1200 to $0.
actually i appreciate your work guys Wink. You are trying to do something and you are not guilty that all this is wasted.
Losing bitcoiners, removing airdropt for holders and ignoring the size of a unit and ico airdrop issues were fatal errors. Four decisions that destroyed the young community. It is difficult to create a community, but it is even more difficult to restore a destroyed community.
barborrico
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 111
Merit: 2


View Profile
November 14, 2018, 08:41:15 PM
 #20971

Quote
If those holders are selling, there should be either huge sell orders or lot of liquidity.
either 1 year of endless dump and -99% of value at the end. But you right, there always will be holders. Holders that will sell to NEW holders at 50% loss. New holders will sell to very new holders at 50% loss and so on. Until price will not fall from $1200 to $0.
actually i appreciate your work guys Wink. You are trying to do something and you are not guilty that all this is wasted.
Losing bitcoiners, removing airdropt for holders and ignoring the size of a unit and ico airdrop issues were fatal errors. Four decisions that destroyed the young community.

Maybe you are right. Maybe we are the ashes of that community.

But...

You know what resurges from the ashes.
tarmo888
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 450
Merit: 41


View Profile WWW
November 14, 2018, 09:15:43 PM
Last edit: November 14, 2018, 10:43:16 PM by tarmo888
 #20972

Quote
If those holders are selling, there should be either huge sell orders or lot of liquidity.
either 1 year of endless dump and -99% of value at the end. But you right, there always will be holders. Holders that will sell to NEW holders at 50% loss. New holders will sell to very new holders at 50% loss and so on. Until price will not fall from $1200 to $0.

If that is true, then there should be plenty of liquidity any given time. Byteball still has 25 million marketcap, you can't sell 65% without being noticeable.

It's funny how some holders get extra furious of spreading FUD every time when price drops. Some other probably hold their heads because they are speechless how shitty can one community be that it undermines its own investments with FUD even more. Thanks for all the FUD, you are doing great job.
dautay_crypto
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 193
Merit: 11


View Profile
November 15, 2018, 02:26:29 AM
 #20973

I known about the Byteball project around one year ago, and have experienced amazing things with the project, the team, and the community.
Over time, Byteball project developed further and deeper invaded into real-life use-cases.
The Byteball community have expanded very well early months this year.
tyz
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2324
Merit: 1240



View Profile
November 15, 2018, 09:56:03 AM
 #20974

I need help with an error message that appears on client launch from one day to another. New installation of the client software did not solve the error. I use MacOs.

Message encrypted to unknown key. The error might be caused by restoring from an old backup or using the same keys on another device


Thul
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 140
Merit: 0


View Profile
November 15, 2018, 10:55:27 AM
 #20975

"IMF says governments could set up their own cryptocurrencies "
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/nov/14/imf-says-governments-could-set-up-their-own-cryptocurrencies

Since bite ball is obviously oriented towards the regulated Fiat markets, what advantages would this currency have over a state-regulated one?
PinchClock
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 36
Merit: 0


View Profile
November 15, 2018, 03:39:29 PM
 #20976

The 15 November deadline is fast approaching for the writing opportunity.

There are 20 prizes and less than 20 entries, so your chances of winning are......rather good!


https://www.reddit.com/r/ByteBall/comments/9ud8j5/writers_wanted_new_byteball_contest/
tarmo888
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 450
Merit: 41


View Profile WWW
November 15, 2018, 08:47:59 PM
Last edit: November 15, 2018, 11:38:48 PM by tarmo888
 #20977

"IMF says governments could set up their own cryptocurrencies "
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/nov/14/imf-says-governments-could-set-up-their-own-cryptocurrencies

Since bite ball is obviously oriented towards the regulated Fiat markets, what advantages would this currency have over a state-regulated one?

I am not worried about state-regulated cryptocurrencies, if anything, they will just bring more adoption to other cryptocurrencies.

Problem at the moment with public sector is that in every country (there are very few exceptions), they have weaker IT than private sector. This is because public sector needs to hire private sector to build them stuff they need and the one who offers the smallest price wins the job (tender). This means that public sector doesn't always get the best quality out there and they are always years behind. Years behind in blockchain technology is not competitive at all. That happens even when public sector hires private sector with service level agreement (SLA) to maintain some systems.

So, I guess first state-regulated cryptocurrencies will be forks of some existing cryptocurrencies or even tokens on some other platforms where they have option to freeze accounts and reverse transactions (maybe XRP, XLM, EOS). They could fork any other cryptocurrency and change them to their needs, but they will fall back in time as rest of the world progresses. Everybody hates public sector IT solutions (or lack of them) for a reason, they are in stone age compared to private sector.
goldart
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 546
Merit: 122



View Profile
November 15, 2018, 11:53:23 PM
 #20978

Quote
If those holders are selling, there should be either huge sell orders or lot of liquidity.
either 1 year of endless dump and -99% of value at the end. But you right, there always will be holders. Holders that will sell to NEW holders at 50% loss. New holders will sell to very new holders at 50% loss and so on. Until price will not fall from $1200 to $0.

If that is true, then there should be plenty of liquidity any given time. Byteball still has 25 million marketcap, you can't sell 65% without being noticeable.

It's funny how some holders get extra furious of spreading FUD every time when price drops. Some other probably hold their heads because they are speechless how shitty can one community be that it undermines its own investments with FUD even more. Thanks for all the FUD, you are doing great job.
a lot of coins or project will disappear. but I hope byteball wont be one of these. the byteball is highly ambitious project that hold vast promise.
tarmo888
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 450
Merit: 41


View Profile WWW
November 16, 2018, 12:24:10 AM
 #20979

Quote
If those holders are selling, there should be either huge sell orders or lot of liquidity.
either 1 year of endless dump and -99% of value at the end. But you right, there always will be holders. Holders that will sell to NEW holders at 50% loss. New holders will sell to very new holders at 50% loss and so on. Until price will not fall from $1200 to $0.

If that is true, then there should be plenty of liquidity any given time. Byteball still has 25 million marketcap, you can't sell 65% without being noticeable.

It's funny how some holders get extra furious of spreading FUD every time when price drops. Some other probably hold their heads because they are speechless how shitty can one community be that it undermines its own investments with FUD even more. Thanks for all the FUD, you are doing great job.
a lot of coins or project will disappear. but I hope byteball wont be one of these. the byteball is highly ambitious project that hold vast promise.

Coins that disappeared during last big bear market (after 2014) were mostly forks of Bitcoin that had slight configuration differences (kind of like ERC20 tokens now). Those remained that were different and/or had dedicated teams to support those coins (Litecoin, XRP, Dogecoin). I listened some podcast recently where some fork author just gave up because lost interest and didn't have resources to maintain the fork.

Bear market is also great time to come up with something new (Ethereum) and be productive because everybody gets distracted when price is going up during bull market, but there is high chance that many new cryptocurrencies that launched their ICOs just on whitepapers and haven't created any working product by now, won't be able to create anything valuable for next bull-run either.

Byteball is working on creating the foundation, which has the reserves for development and maintenance and Byteball also has dedicated team.
https://medium.com/byteball/the-future-of-byteball-the-byteball-foundation-cca9d495bf46
CryptoUnicornRider
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 36
Merit: 0


View Profile
November 16, 2018, 12:28:41 AM
Last edit: November 16, 2018, 12:39:21 AM by CryptoUnicornRider
 #20980

@unicorn

I can't quote all of that since it will take up too much space. People need to scroll up to view the previous post you made.

there is either too much being lost in translation or you simply do not understand what I am saying. Trying to deny what i have merely observed and pointed out is pointless.

Everything I have suggested in the past would have clearly benefitted the project. There is nothing more to be said about it.

No tonych was not naive we had discussed going ahead would land the largest proportions with those ico managers and exchanges.
I am not in favour of airdrops to bitcoin holders anyway just on the basis i would not give the already most wealthy the most.

I am as selfish and greedy as any other normal person here. However arguing against airdropping to btc holders was not in my financial favour since i could have linked a lot more than i did and also it suits me financially better than some of my other suggestions. Wide distributions with no immediate super whales is best.

No need to apologise for your english I can not speak french. I just believe you do not fully understand everything that I am trying to convey.

I have no problem with people saying i want more money for doing nothing. However actually I am not doing nothing and if all the effort I had put into this thread and project had had any effect the real bb holders and enthusiasts would be better off and so would tonych. Also as i have explained people who buy and hold your alt are not doing nothing. They are adding to investor confindence which is a form of free advertising and at this time the most powerful type of advertising. When everyone dumps your project and people see it sinking that is showing a lack of confidence which can self perpetuate strongly.

I would love more money for doing nothing for sure that is not something you should doubt is a primary dream of a great proportion of people in the world.

I really honestly do not see your point that you are trying to make?

Are you saying trying to get people to invest and make it look as attractive as possible to future investors and hodlers is less important than drumming up adoption with baker and piano stores. Well that is useful too but the fast route to the top 50 right now is appealing to speculators and investors. Once there you will give yourselves a lot more financial leverage to develop applications and usage and get the attention of those that already have huge opportunities waiting in terms of adoption.  You will need a lot of volume and value to bring in big adopters.

crypotounicornrider    Date Registered:   12-10-2018
tarm0888                  Date Registered:   12-10-2018


come on guys....


Hi cryptohunter,

First, my aim is not to offend you or to disrespect you. You have logical arguments and you have been here since the beginning and I respect that.

Nevertheless, I believe that your exclusive focus on investors and speculators doesn't serve the Byteball platform cause. Worst, it's fuel for pessimists and trolls.

In plus, you don't give any real consideration to Byteball platform aims : Wide adoption and real world adoption. Grossly translated, that means first mister and miss everybody and secondly the industrial, financial and retail sector even if these target groups are complementary. These groups don't care about CC markets even if financial sector could monitor it from a remote perspective.

In my opinion, investors/speculators/BTC holders were useful as a kick-starter. But now, the snowball effect doesn't need them to grow the network.

I was a Byteball BitcoinTalk thread's silent reader since January 2017. To improve my understanding of the Byteball platform, I decide to share my poor knowledge with users. Barborrico used it nicely. And I noticed that Tarmo888 subscribed the same day than myself. Two possibilities, it's a coincidence or, more egocentric, I motivate him to act :-) Only Tarmo888 can answer to it.

And I guarantee you that we are two different persons even if we have common aims. He's a lion. He spends a lot of energy trying to sanitize the Byteball BitcoinTalk thread of pessimist people. And he's doing an important job because this thread should be used to inform and help the Byteball community, not to spread pessimism. Btw, I call this kind of behaviors insider trading.

In my opinion, BitcoinTalk threads are focus on the CC market community (your target). So, I prefer focus myself on other targets. Maybe have you read some of my articles like Byteball : A pizza for two generals or Byteball : An Unstoppable Financial Revolution ;-)

I sincerely hope you'll stop to fuel pessimists and trolls. And that you review your positions about how relevant is wide adoption and real world adoption.

And I don't think that Anton Churyumov is naive. In fact, he has a master plan in mind since the beginning. But it's my personal opinion.

Pleasure to read you again.
Pages: « 1 ... 999 1000 1001 1002 1003 1004 1005 1006 1007 1008 1009 1010 1011 1012 1013 1014 1015 1016 1017 1018 1019 1020 1021 1022 1023 1024 1025 1026 1027 1028 1029 1030 1031 1032 1033 1034 1035 1036 1037 1038 1039 1040 1041 1042 1043 1044 1045 1046 1047 1048 [1049] 1050 1051 1052 1053 1054 1055 1056 1057 1058 1059 1060 1061 1062 1063 1064 1065 1066 1067 1068 1069 1070 1071 1072 1073 1074 1075 1076 1077 1078 1079 1080 1081 1082 1083 1084 1085 1086 1087 1088 1089 1090 1091 1092 1093 1094 1095 1096 1097 1098 1099 ... 1115 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!