Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[Phoenix1969]

I'm no expert and I haven't been following the conversation, but doesn't it have to do with the way the device is handling the flush?

Scenario:
The pool issues lets say 512 shares to you for Block A.  Part way through processing the hashes on those shares, Block A is found and the pool tells you to flush and also gives you 512 additional shares for Block B.  If you turn around and submit the hashes you've completed for Block A, they would be errors as they are for the previously (already completed) block.

Depending on the firmware for your device, the flush work may be handled in different ways.  It seems to me that the way KNC has/is handling the flush work has been problematic from the beginning (based on little tidbits I've read without a deep understanding of the process).

I would actually like to know if my understanding is flawed so please correct me if I'm wrong.

if your pool pays for stale/rejected shares....yes, something like that, but some others don't pay for them
and yes... Flushwork was problematic from beginning...   they improved the situation by shortening the flushtime... but I really think no flush at all would be faster, and if your pool pays for rejected/stale shares, you LOOSE all those btc with every flush, because your pool would have paid you for them!

[dhenson]

I'm no expert and I haven't been following the conversation, but doesn't it have to do with the way the device is handling the flush?

Scenario:
The pool issues lets say 512 shares to you for Block A.  Part way through processing the hashes on those shares, Block A is found and the pool tells you to flush and also gives you 512 additional shares for Block B.  If you turn around and submit the hashes you've completed for Block A, they would be errors as they are for the previously (already completed) block.

Depending on the firmware for your device, the flush work may be handled in different ways.  It seems to me that the way KNC has/is handling the flush work has been problematic from the beginning (based on little tidbits I've read without a deep understanding of the process).

I would actually like to know if my understanding is flawed so please correct me if I'm wrong.

if your pool pays for stale/rejected shares....yes, something like that, but some others don't pay for them
and yes... Flushwork was problematic from beginning...   they improved the situation by shortening the flushtime... but I really think no flush at all would be faster, and if your pool pays for rejected shares, you LOOSE all those btc with every flush, because your pool would have paid you for them!

I've never heard of a pool paying for rejected shares.  I've heard of pools paying for orphaned blocks but not rejected shares.

Can you give me an example so I can look into it?

[Phoenix1969]

Henson...   http://imgur.com/w3XpJuy  (50BTC)

**Maybe a simple "flushwork checkbox option" on the GUI would help things until the rest is figured out.
We could then check/uncheck the box depending on how your pool pays out.

sry to go on and on about it... but I'm thinking just a minor code/config tweak could increase our income potential here.  

[merv77]

what I thought 'network protection' meant is to protect your share (existing KNC customer share) of the network.

in other words if your share of the network is 1TH, and the network rose 20% you should add 20% to your existing 1TH which would add up to be 1.2TH.
therefore the BTC you generate stays the same.  This is my opinion of how 'network protection' should work.  And this should only apply to existing customers who actually own miners only and shouldn't be sold to the general public for it to work.  If a 'network protection' batch were to be sold to anyone that wouldn't protect your share of the network but in fact make it worse for existing customers that own miners.  I know this sounds like an expensive exercise but this is the theory behind the 'network protection' statement. 

Also I think why KNC have not or are hesitant in selling Jupiters is because they don't want existing Neptune customers asking for refunds just to buy Jupiters.  If KNC did offer Jupiters again then they should remove the refund option on Neptunes.  Or if this sounds to drastic for some, then KNC should say we will not sell Jupiters to people who have asked for refunds in the past.

[RickJamesBTC]

if knc sell jupiter is  break network protection

Sorry, but that's bullshit.
We just had 15 and  20% diff increases without KVC delivering a thing, which totally negates the statement.

Helmet is just confused. Also, confusing to read. Network protection is silly, we all want more miners, they should be selling them to us. They could have destroyed the competition if they saturated the market with the original orders, and shipped from immediate stock thereafter. It's a competitive game, let us be competitive.

Rick, you have a frightening "arms race" mentality there. 

What do you expect... He's Rick James.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuT7S-qpLfs

Cocaine is a hell of a drug.

[derekleong75]

Any news for new jupiter batch from knc ? Thanks.

Yes, it sold out today for under 10 minutes.

Were you just making this up? Or did it actually happen?

He's making it up.

It was under 8 minutes.

Btw the price KNC decided to sell them for today was very good. $2500 was a good call  

What the hell?  I was looking out for a newsletter for the next batch of Jups as I really wanted to buy another one.    Well done, KNC.

[merv77]

Any news for new jupiter batch from knc ? Thanks.

Yes, it sold out today for under 10 minutes.

Were you just making this up? Or did it actually happen?

He's making it up.

It was under 8 minutes.

Btw the price KNC decided to sell them for today was very good. $2500 was a good call  

What the hell?  I was looking out for a newsletter for the next batch of Jups as I really wanted to buy another one.    Well done, KNC.

don't beleive these dudes...  IT'S A JOKE... a bad joke really..    LOL
this is what you call pommy humor, not funny for everyone 

[de_ixie]

Any news for new jupiter batch from knc ? Thanks.

Yes, it sold out today for under 10 minutes.

Were you just making this up? Or did it actually happen?

He's making it up.

It was under 8 minutes.

Btw the price KNC decided to sell them for today was very good. $2500 was a good call  

What the hell?  I was looking out for a newsletter for the next batch of Jups as I really wanted to buy another one.    Well done, KNC.

don't beleive these dudes...  IT'S A JOKE... a bad joke really..    LOL
this is what you call pommy humor, not funny for everyone 

yeahh - exactly - a joke... *cough...*

[Searing]

Any news for new jupiter batch from knc ? Thanks.

Yes, it sold out today for under 10 minutes.

heh..you almost had me there..almost...(jeez I need to take a chill pill and just concentrate on the Neptunes this is just ridiculous ...watching this thread for "possible" Jupiter sightings...its like we are all the folks on the hillside from the movie "close encounters of a third kind" ....(ps to self I need a life ..then again it is like 30 below wind chill outside..maybe not having a life is better)

Searing

[Searing]

Hi guys,

I dont post much in this thread if ever. I do have 1 jupiter and thought I had a second procured but the seller has been non responsive (another story I wont go into here.)..

I have read speculation in this thread about lower priced Jupiters but doesnt that hurt the Neptune market?

My questions for you guys are. What do you think KNC will do with the price of a Jupiter if they were to throw another batch out there?

Do you think they would kill the antminer, BFL products with a painfully priced (to bitmain, BFL)
Jupiter?

Or

Do you think they are waiting for the price of BTC to break 900 again and then release painfully priced (to us) Jupiters?

The reason I bring this up is what I saw with Bitfury gear (doubling the price of H-cards) and antminers selling at above 4000 usd equivilent when BTC was sky high.

Look forward to your responses.

Best Regards,

I stated on this thread previously ..that with BFL selling 'vaporware" march at best monarch 600gh cards for 2.5k now ..imho if I was KNC I'd kill the competition and dump whatever is prudent Jupiter units "at cost" or dang near close to it say 1.5K or some such.....just to drive BFL into dust and keep market share for KNC. byt slapping the comptetion down for being late to the party...a good use of "old stock on hand Jupiters in my book" ..then again I always wanted to be "Dr. Evil"...but no real loss to them...slap the other asic companies down... keep market share

but then again I know zip..just saying

Searing

[lemonte]

Hi guys,

I dont post much in this thread if ever. I do have 1 jupiter and thought I had a second procured but the seller has been non responsive (another story I wont go into here.)..

I have read speculation in this thread about lower priced Jupiters but doesnt that hurt the Neptune market?

My questions for you guys are. What do you think KNC will do with the price of a Jupiter if they were to throw another batch out there?

Do you think they would kill the antminer, BFL products with a painfully priced (to bitmain, BFL)
Jupiter?

Or

Do you think they are waiting for the price of BTC to break 900 again and then release painfully priced (to us) Jupiters?

The reason I bring this up is what I saw with Bitfury gear (doubling the price of H-cards) and antminers selling at above 4000 usd equivilent when BTC was sky high.

Look forward to your responses.

Best Regards,

I stated on this thread previously ..that with BFL selling 'vaporware" march at best monarch 600gh cards for 2.5k now ..imho if I was KNC I'd kill the competition and dump whatever is prudent Jupiter units "at cost" or dang near close to it say 1.5K or some such.....just to drive BFL into dust and keep market share for KNC. byt slapping the comptetion down for being late to the party...a good use of "old stock on hand Jupiters in my book" ..then again I always wanted to be "Dr. Evil"...but no real loss to them...slap the other asic companies down... keep market share

but then again I know zip..just saying

Searing

As much as i wish this was true, It wouldn't end up killing BFL. They occupy a hell of a lot of space in terms of marketing, appealing on the broadest of terms. I'd hazard a guess that they're target audience these days is noobs who don't know any better.

[de_ixie]

Hi guys,

I dont post much in this thread if ever. I do have 1 jupiter and thought I had a second procured but the seller has been non responsive (another story I wont go into here.)..

I have read speculation in this thread about lower priced Jupiters but doesnt that hurt the Neptune market?

My questions for you guys are. What do you think KNC will do with the price of a Jupiter if they were to throw another batch out there?

Do you think they would kill the antminer, BFL products with a painfully priced (to bitmain, BFL)
Jupiter?

Or

Do you think they are waiting for the price of BTC to break 900 again and then release painfully priced (to us) Jupiters?

The reason I bring this up is what I saw with Bitfury gear (doubling the price of H-cards) and antminers selling at above 4000 usd equivilent when BTC was sky high.

Look forward to your responses.

Best Regards,

I stated on this thread previously ..that with BFL selling 'vaporware" march at best monarch 600gh cards for 2.5k now ..imho if I was KNC I'd kill the competition and dump whatever is prudent Jupiter units "at cost" or dang near close to it say 1.5K or some such.....just to drive BFL into dust and keep market share for KNC. byt slapping the comptetion down for being late to the party...a good use of "old stock on hand Jupiters in my book" ..then again I always wanted to be "Dr. Evil"...but no real loss to them...slap the other asic companies down... keep market share

but then again I know zip..just saying

Searing

You are correct, sir - but they can also achieve that with a well designed 20nm product. I'd highly prefer they push their whole energy in only one direction: Neptune.... and meanwhile catch up on some other 'worldly' things - e.g. I still did not receive a final invoice for my Neptunes, which is crucial for the tax statement.

Edit: Forgot - maybe they could damage BFL, but not Cointerra, they are serious competition. KnC can only stay ahead with 20nm

[OmegaNemesis28]

Where can I sign up for new newsletters?

I got the original upgrade modules email, never got Neptune even for existing customers,  never got this supposed new one.

Still furious about their disregard for pre existing customers. And now I can't even get damn updates.

What disregard now?? Geez.

Subscribe here: at bottom of "Common info: tab

I have that but I still haven't received whatever recent newsletter went out. And I certainly don't have them under spam.

[DPoS]

 KnC can only stay ahead with 20nm

This doesn't really make sense..  if you are trying to scrape another $100 a month on each miner from lower power usage then you really have to rethink how much money you thought you were going to make in the first place.

If KNC put their Neptune plans on hold, let those customers switch to newly made Jupiters (or take refund) and ship as many miners in Feb as they can make, they would do fine (and also stay on their word to wait before flooding market)

Remember, Cointerra hasn't proved anything yet.

[Flashman]

C'mon Sam, I'm a one man F5 DDoS, hoping to see Jupiters on sale before BFLs Monarch sale expires on the 5th...

... though I might need my head read for considering either, now Hashfast starting to ship and Cointerra in final stages of chip production.

[de_ixie]

 KnC can only stay ahead with 20nm

This doesn't really make sense..  if you are trying to scrape another $100 a month on each miner from lower power usage then you really have to rethink how much money you thought you were going to make in the first place.

If KNC put their Neptune plans on hold, let those customers switch to newly made Jupiters (or take refund) and ship as many miners in Feb as they can make, they would do fine (and also stay on their word to wait before flooding market)

Remember, Cointerra hasn't proved anything yet.

Yeah - you are right. They had the choice. Optimizing 28nm and doing serious cash now or going for innovation with 20nm and doing maybe even more serious cash later. Safe (28nm) vs. Risky (20nm).

Their business decision was going the (risky) innovative route and I like that. How will turn things out for them? No idea, I dont have a crystal ball at home - I dont know whether R&D expenses and unforeseen problems of 20nm justify the potential 30% power savings. My gut tells me it will be a significant advantage over compitition in 2014/ 2015. Maybe it turns out 20nm is not worth it - we will see. Captain hindsight will provide us the solution soon. My point is, they are still a small company - they decided to go risky 20nm - I decided to go with them. They made the decision, we tied up our money. Stopping that train is not an option any more. They have to put all effort on this now. KnC is all in.

Hashfast already failed majorly - have the feeling Cointerra will not, they seem to have a different level of professionalims. My bet would be KnC and Cointerra are the big players in 2014. Others? Dunno, blackarrow seems lacking customer support, Bitmine seems capable but too small. Bfl - no comment.

[de_ixie]

C'mon Sam, I'm a one man F5 DDoS, hoping to see Jupiters on sale before BFLs Monarch sale expires on the 5th...

... though I might need my head read for considering either, now Hashfast starting to ship and Cointerra in final stages of chip production.

Hashfast stopped selling their product due to massive failure  

Edit: Seems like Hashfast will struggle hard to survive the upcoming months - do not order from them

[ImI]

Where can I sign up for new newsletters?

I got the original upgrade modules email, never got Neptune even for existing customers,  never got this supposed new one.

Still furious about their disregard for pre existing customers. And now I can't even get damn updates.

What disregard now?? Geez.

Subscribe here: at bottom of "Common info: tab

I have that but I still haven't received whatever recent newsletter went out. And I certainly don't have them under spam.

same here

[Phoenix1969]

Where can I sign up for new newsletters?

I got the original upgrade modules email, never got Neptune even for existing customers,  never got this supposed new one.

Still furious about their disregard for pre existing customers. And now I can't even get damn updates.

What disregard now?? Geez.

Subscribe here: at bottom of "Common info: tab

I have that but I still haven't received whatever recent newsletter went out. And I certainly don't have them under spam.

Dude, if you even bothered to check the site...
the last newsletter was December 14th, surely you check the site more than that.
Serious disregard?... I'd say you are the guilty one on that.
There was NOT another run on modules, or Jupiters... !
You've been had!  Let that be a lesson to ya.
Now... Pay attention or get left in the dust!  

[soy]

 KnC can only stay ahead with 20nm

This doesn't really make sense..  if you are trying to scrape another $100 a month on each miner from lower power usage then you really have to rethink how much money you thought you were going to make in the first place.

If KNC put their Neptune plans on hold, let those customers switch to newly made Jupiters (or take refund) and ship as many miners in Feb as they can make, they would do fine (and also stay on their word to wait before flooding market)

Remember, Cointerra hasn't proved anything yet.

Yeah - you are right. They had the choice. Optimizing 28nm and doing serious cash now or going for innovation with 20nm and doing maybe even more serious cash later. Safe (28nm) vs. Risky (20nm).

Their business decision was going the (risky) innovative route and I like that. How will turn things out for them? No idea, I dont have a crystal ball at home - I dont know whether R&D expenses and unforeseen problems of 20nm justify the potential 30% power savings. My gut tells me it will be a significant advantage over compitition in 2014/ 2015. Maybe it turns out 20nm is not worth it - we will see. Captain hindsight will provide us the solution soon. My point is, they are still a small company - they decided to go risky 20nm - I decided to go with them. They made the decision, we tied up our money. Stopping that train is not an option any more. They have to put all effort on this now. KnC is all in.

Hashfast already failed majorly - have the feeling Cointerra will not, they seem to have a different level of professionalims. My bet would be KnC and Cointerra are the big players in 2014. Others? Dunno, blackarrow seems lacking customer support, Bitmine seems capable but too small. Bfl - no comment.

Small company or not,  the development lab people wouldn't benefit from the production workers crowding into their lab asking for something to do.  While we're sitting here waiting for KnC machines they have production workers with fewer and fewer make-stock-sub-assemblies-for-inventory chores to do.  Paid vacation time was great I'm sure but now they're back drawing paychecks and 401k matching contributions.  That has to be working toward a decision to get back into Jupiter production.  The alternative?