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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3006423 times)
Phoenix1969
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December 31, 2013, 09:46:25 PM
 #27081

No information to make decisions may be the point.  A group sales figure here on bitcointalk has gear to sell.  It's not KnC gear, it's not too efficient, price isn't great, but the stuff is available and he was an early provider of ASICs to us in this country at the home user level.  He personally put ASICs in miners homes  here while BFL was blowing smoke our way.  If KnC were to say 'We've been working full work weeks producing Jupiters for release in January.' sales of comrade ASIC miners might be damaged.  KnC knows it has the Lexus of Bitcoin Miners at present.  KnC can sell at will all it offers.
They can't. As I've been saying, if they flood the market with new Jupiters, it'll massively impact neptune sales/refunds. Anyone with money would buy a dozen jupiters for delivery in Jan/Feb and cancel all neptune orders. Because 3TH now is worth XXTH in June/July. They can't risk a mass refund on neptunes, as they will have no business. Also, if they flood the market with Jupiters, it'll increase the network hashrate dramatically and that'll make the neptune look less and less attractive. Could even kill it.

So, they are in a delightfully difficult situation  Cheesy KNC can

1. Sell loads of Jupiters and forget neptune. Lot's of money, but the end of their business.
2. Sell limited number of Jupiters and hope it doesn't damage neptune sales or lead to mass neptune refunds (most likely scenario).
3. Sell loads of Jupiters, but make sure people with neptune orders cannot get a refund. In the process, make themselves the most hated asic company in the world.
4. Don't sell any new Jupiters and rely on neptune. But this bet relies on their competition screwing up and not being able to take the lead for the X months it takes knc to squeeze out the neptune. If competion surges ahead, knc are left behind. Any major delays in neptune - knc are dead.

How many more options do they have?
*Keep us clueless 'till the announcement "We have them in stock for immediate shipping".....
No way a Neptune refund would make it in time in that scenario, and then could do both...which is what my guess WAS
Now, I'm not so sure, sounds as if the 28nm idea got 86'd


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December 31, 2013, 09:54:18 PM
 #27082

I wish KNC would just keep selling batches of Jupiters,   put the nail in the coffin of all these scam hardware companies!


With BFL's aggressive new pricing i expect something from KNC in the next few days!
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December 31, 2013, 09:59:00 PM
 #27083

I wish KNC would just keep selling batches of Jupiters,   put the nail in the coffin of all these scam hardware companies!


With BFL's aggressive new pricing i expect something from KNC in the next few days!
Their price has no bite considering it's stating 600Gh/s MAYBE  in March... and given the novel of history, I wouldn't touch that, even with Josh's signature in blood. He's been Wrong, every single time, with every single uttering for a year and a half now....  and with about ten thousand pissed-off customers to testify.....Why would you expect different?


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December 31, 2013, 10:11:28 PM
 #27084

I wish KNC would just keep selling batches of Jupiters,   put the nail in the coffin of all these scam hardware companies!


^^ This is their answer really.  They can still be legit on their word to early customers on waiting before making more Jupiters and still hit their competitors pretty hard.

If KNC just shipped out Jupiters with no case and no heatsinks and already they don't ship PSUs they have a nice margin they can drop vs worrying about power usage wars (meaningless in any scenario vs other factors like delivery time & cost per Gh)

They can keep Neptune on the whiteboard and offer those customers refunds or switching to Jupiters.  Sometimes best to take a step back before hitting a wall.


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December 31, 2013, 10:48:06 PM
 #27085

I wish KNC would just keep selling batches of Jupiters,   put the nail in the coffin of all these scam hardware companies!


With BFL's aggressive new pricing i expect something from KNC in the next few days!

1st week 2014, 1/1-1/4 probability of Jupiter sales opening, 20%
2nd week 2014, 1/5-1/11 probability of Jupiter sales opening, 45%

these are my guesses.



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December 31, 2013, 10:51:07 PM
 #27086

I wish KNC would just keep selling batches of Jupiters,   put the nail in the coffin of all these scam hardware companies!


With BFL's aggressive new pricing i expect something from KNC in the next few days!
Their price has no bite considering it's stating 600Gh/s MAYBE  in March... and given the novel of history, I wouldn't touch that, even with Josh's signature in blood. He's been Wrong, every single time, with every single uttering for a year and a half now....  and with about ten thousand pissed-off customers to testify.....Why would you expect different?

wrong if fulfilling most customer's expectations, right if plan was to get pre-paid orders to finance first ASIC development and implementation then sell first to employees and self, then waiting customers and backdoor deals slowly while hashing while the hashing was best for ASICs; then when ROI was almost break even on the miners, really start to ship pre-orders.



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December 31, 2013, 10:51:21 PM
 #27087

I wish KNC would just keep selling batches of Jupiters,   put the nail in the coffin of all these scam hardware companies!

With BFL's aggressive new pricing i expect something from KNC in the next few days!

Far from aggressive.

The *only* manufacturer shipping at a reasonable price right now is BitMain. It would be good if KNC would get back in production to provide some competition.

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December 31, 2013, 11:04:23 PM
 #27088

You really wanna know...  Okay...
In all seriousness... I took the newsletter statement ""we may be in a position to release Jupiter’s and possibly upgrade cards which we will ship from stock." to mean... they will not be preorders, but will be a batch run & assembled before offered for sale, which could then be sold from stock, for immediate shipment. Which would also explain the answers in your emails. Nothing in the statement they made says they have them in stock as I understand it.  What are 40 new employees going to do until Neptune time? Based on the past, they can assemble & ship an entire batch in 2 weeks, so there's plenty of time to pull that one off. That's what I'm betting is happening....  and no, that's NOT an inside scoop, I could be totally off-base too.   Wink

"SOLD FROM STOCK" means what it says, SOLD FROM STOCK. Where in the world would you put together they would have to make them? If they had to make them and put them together and all that, they probably wouldn't have said SOLD FROM STOCK. It was a BALK KNC did to make people get some coin and not purchase from a competitor. Then the Neptune sales came out. It was just a marketing tactic.


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December 31, 2013, 11:06:58 PM
 #27089

You really wanna know...  Okay...
In all seriousness... I took the newsletter statement ""we may be in a position to release Jupiter’s and possibly upgrade cards which we will ship from stock." to mean... they will not be preorders, but will be a batch run & assembled before offered for sale, which could then be sold from stock, for immediate shipment. Which would also explain the answers in your emails. Nothing in the statement they made says they have them in stock as I understand it.  What are 40 new employees going to do until Neptune time? Based on the past, they can assemble & ship an entire batch in 2 weeks, so there's plenty of time to pull that one off. That's what I'm betting is happening....  and no, that's NOT an inside scoop, I could be totally off-base too.   Wink

"SOLD FROM STOCK" means what it says, SOLD FROM STOCK. Where in the world would you put together they would have to make them? If they had to make them and put them together and all that, they probably wouldn't have said SOLD FROM STOCK. It was a BALK KNC did to make people get some coin and not purchase from a competitor. Then the Neptune sales came out. It was just a marketing tactic.



They seem good to their word with minor exceptions so far and that's way ahead of others so I'm not going to give the 'just a marketing tactic' any weight.



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1l1l11ll1l
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December 31, 2013, 11:07:09 PM
 #27090

Well, if HashLast doesn't make KNC sell another batch, I suppose Cointerra will

http://cointerra.com/engineering-update-goldstrike-packaged-chips-system-board-assembly/

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smoothrunnings
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December 31, 2013, 11:10:32 PM
 #27091

No information to make decisions may be the point.  A group sales figure here on bitcointalk has gear to sell.  It's not KnC gear, it's not too efficient, price isn't great, but the stuff is available and he was an early provider of ASICs to us in this country at the home user level.  He personally put ASICs in miners homes  here while BFL was blowing smoke our way.  If KnC were to say 'We've been working full work weeks producing Jupiters for release in January.' sales of comrade ASIC miners might be damaged.  KnC knows it has the Lexus of Bitcoin Miners at present.  KnC can sell at will all it offers.
They can't. As I've been saying, if they flood the market with new Jupiters, it'll massively impact neptune sales/refunds. Anyone with money would buy a dozen jupiters for delivery in Jan/Feb and cancel all neptune orders. Because 3TH now is worth XXTH in June/July. They can't risk a mass refund on neptunes, as they will have no business. Also, if they flood the market with Jupiters, it'll increase the network hashrate dramatically and that'll make the neptune look less and less attractive. Could even kill it.

So, they are in a delightfully difficult situation  Cheesy KNC can

1. Sell loads of Jupiters and forget neptune. Lot's of money, but the end of their business.
2. Sell limited number of Jupiters and hope it doesn't damage neptune sales or lead to mass neptune refunds (most likely scenario).
3. Sell loads of Jupiters, but make sure people with neptune orders cannot get a refund. In the process, make themselves the most hated asic company in the world.
4. Don't sell any new Jupiters and rely on neptune. But this bet relies on their competition screwing up and not being able to take the lead for the X months it takes knc to squeeze out the neptune. If competion surges ahead, knc are left behind. Any major delays in neptune - knc are dead.

How many more options do they have?

As you said in #4 they don't sell new Jupiters and rely on the Neptune, but as they continue to do the R&D before they ship the first batch the competition surges again allowing Knc to leap frog the competition with the Neptune. Remember they said it will do a minimum of 3TH/s and that they have the right to increase the hashing rate before its shipped.

Realistically it would have been more wise to buy the 2nd and or 3rd batch of the Neptune's as they are more likely to do more hashing than the first batch whatever its at, be that 3TH/s or more.

It's great to see they decided to focus all their resources (for all we know) on the Neptune and not be spread out thin trying to release a newer Jupiter while working on the Neptune as smaller companies who have spread themselves out too thin end up in bankruptcy pretty quickly.

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December 31, 2013, 11:15:55 PM
 #27092

Sorry, I just don't think there is any strategy at all. Sometimes it seems like they just throw a dart at the board and go with whatever it lands on. I think we give them too much credit coming up with all these elaborate plans on if they are selling jupiters/netpunes/prunes, etc. Whoever is making business decisions at KnC really needs to be more consistent to warrant any of these conspiracy theories.
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December 31, 2013, 11:16:07 PM
 #27093

Well, if HashLast doesn't make KNC sell another batch, I suppose Cointerra will

http://cointerra.com/engineering-update-goldstrike-packaged-chips-system-board-assembly/

That's a fun sight Smiley

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December 31, 2013, 11:27:22 PM
 #27094

Well, if HashLast doesn't make KNC sell another batch, I suppose Cointerra will

http://cointerra.com/engineering-update-goldstrike-packaged-chips-system-board-assembly/

Their April 2TH/s machine will only be a 28nm chip, how does that start to compare with the 20nm chip Knc has?
Also 2 x 1100 watt power supplies suggests the 28nm 2TH/s machine will consume ALOT of power, so I hope you don't pay for your power where you live or you'll be paying a lot more for it! Smiley

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December 31, 2013, 11:33:56 PM
 #27095

Well, if HashLast doesn't make KNC sell another batch, I suppose Cointerra will

http://cointerra.com/engineering-update-goldstrike-packaged-chips-system-board-assembly/

Their April 2TH/s machine will only be a 28nm chip, how does that start to compare with the 20nm chip Knc has?
Also 2 x 1100 watt power supplies suggests the 28nm 2TH/s machine will consume ALOT of power, so I hope you don't pay for your power where you live or you'll be paying a lot more for it! Smiley



that meant something when bitcoins were worth under $100

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December 31, 2013, 11:43:45 PM
 #27096

Well, if HashLast doesn't make KNC sell another batch, I suppose Cointerra will

http://cointerra.com/engineering-update-goldstrike-packaged-chips-system-board-assembly/

Their April 2TH/s machine will only be a 28nm chip, how does that start to compare with the 20nm chip Knc has?
Also 2 x 1100 watt power supplies suggests the 28nm 2TH/s machine will consume ALOT of power, so I hope you don't pay for your power where you live or you'll be paying a lot more for it! Smiley



that meant something when bitcoins were worth under $100

I guess if you found away for your hydro electric provider to accept bitcoins! Smiley
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January 01, 2014, 12:24:18 AM
 #27097

I'd like to see knc just start selling jupiters. Not from limited stock, but just set a price and sell them. Lower the price some with each difficulty level until they are no longer profitable to sell, then start pumping out neptunes.
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January 01, 2014, 01:20:45 AM
 #27098

Dear KNC, if you read this,
Happy New Year!!!
You set a new standard and I am eternally grateful for all your hard work, your integrity and work ethics. Do not mind some people complaining, there will always be some. Majority of the customers, like myself can see the nobility of your company, following the legacy of brave Vikings. May your success continue in the new year!

Yours faithfully,
monsieur
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January 01, 2014, 01:33:36 AM
 #27099

HNY from LDN! Grin


Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful Smiley BTC Address --->
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seanrarey
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January 01, 2014, 02:28:54 AM
 #27100

Dear KNC, if you read this,
Happy New Year!!!
You set a new standard and I am eternally grateful for all your hard work, your integrity and work ethics. Do not mind some people complaining, there will always be some. Majority of the customers, like myself can see the nobility of your company, following the legacy of brave Vikings. May your success continue in the new year!

Yours faithfully,
monsieur

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