Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[smoothrunnings]

Cointerra kept their 20nm very quiet, or did I miss that??  

guess CT's dreams of 14nm FinFen being next are gone....
Considering CT's performance on 28nm, I wouldn't bank on anything  special there.
If there's any truth to the document, we will see Plan "B" soon

14nm are too old!

10nm should be next...

http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1264668

according to your link....2015 on 10nm...

By the time any ASIC mining rig gets their 14nm rig out the door 10nm chips will be available.

[1715571457]

1715571457

[1715571457]

1715571457

[1715571457]

1715571457

[raskul]

Cointerra kept their 20nm very quiet, or did I miss that??  

guess CT's dreams of 14nm FinFen being next are gone....
Considering CT's performance on 28nm, I wouldn't bank on anything  special there.
If there's any truth to the document, we will see Plan "B" soon

14nm are too old!

10nm should be next...

http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1264668

according to your link....2015 on 10nm...

By the time any ASIC mining rig gets their 14nm rig out the door 10nm chips will be available.

don't consider 14nm. next step is 16nm.

[tolip_wen]

Quoted from the 20nm post...  "actual cybershuttle cycle time figures on the 20nm technology, which will be included in the Swedish mining manufacturer KnC and the US Cointerra, shows shuttle times of around 130days, with 16nm at 171 days."

Since KNC's 20nm is an industry 1st for AlChip and AST; where do the numbers come from?

a confidential document. you may now either choose to believe, or disbelieve. either way - keep your tinfoil hat on.

Are those times for RISC or CISC products?

An sha256 ASIC is a SINGLE INSTRUCTION part.
Way less complicated by comparison.

Me thinks you mix apples and oranges.

YMMV

I have cointerra's statistical data on the same document.

yes KnC = apples and CT = oranges.

best wishes.

And 'actual shuttle times' for 28nm are 3-4 months.
KnC delivered in 8 weeks.

This was already discussed.

YMMV


P.S. I'm not claiming KnC has another rabbit in the hat, but They DID have one in there as they said they did, previously.

[Phoenix1969]

Okay, well they began 20nm prior to November 5th....
https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-63
"Unbeknown to the community we are currently developing the next generation product in 20nm/16nm process with Alchip, "

...  and then completed "Tape Out" mid February....
https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-78
This important milestone was achieved only 3 months after starting the project, during February 2014.

So the issue in the post then is "Cybershuttle", which  refers to tape-out at TSMC, and was already completed mid Feb.
Cybershuttle is nothing more than a pre-production tapeout service made for speed, and once the "Tapeout" is complete, so is "Cybershuttle"
http://www.tsmc.com/english/dedicatedFoundry/services/cyberShuttle.htm
In conclusion, "Cybershuttle" phase, was from November, to February for KNC... which is most likely where the estimate comes from.
and KNC has already told us they are in the "Foundry" stage.

So....   I see no delay here.

[raskul]

Quoted from the 20nm post...  "actual cybershuttle cycle time figures on the 20nm technology, which will be included in the Swedish mining manufacturer KnC and the US Cointerra, shows shuttle times of around 130days, with 16nm at 171 days."

Since KNC's 20nm is an industry 1st for AlChip and AST; where do the numbers come from?

a confidential document. you may now either choose to believe, or disbelieve. either way - keep your tinfoil hat on.

Are those times for RISC or CISC products?

An sha256 ASIC is a SINGLE INSTRUCTION part.
Way less complicated by comparison.

Me thinks you mix apples and oranges.

YMMV

I have cointerra's statistical data on the same document.

yes KnC = apples and CT = oranges.

best wishes.

And 'actual shuttle times' for 28nm are 3-4 months.
KnC delivered in 8 weeks.

This was already discussed.

YMMV


P.S. I'm not claiming KnC has another rabbit in the hat, but They DID have one in there as they said they did, previously.

shuttle times for 28nm were ~80 days, 8 weeks was I agree, very well done on their part.

[lemonte]

Quoted from the 20nm post...  "actual cybershuttle cycle time figures on the 20nm technology, which will be included in the Swedish mining manufacturer KnC and the US Cointerra, shows shuttle times of around 130days, with 16nm at 171 days."

Since KNC's 20nm is an industry 1st for AlChip and AST; where do the numbers come from?

a confidential document. you may now either choose to believe, or disbelieve. either way - keep your tinfoil hat on.

Are those times for RISC or CISC products?

An sha256 ASIC is a SINGLE INSTRUCTION part.
Way less complicated by comparison.

Me thinks you mix apples and oranges.

YMMV

I have cointerra's statistical data on the same document.

yes KnC = apples and CT = oranges.

best wishes.

And 'actual shuttle times' for 28nm are 3-4 months.
KnC delivered in 8 weeks.

This was already discussed.

YMMV


P.S. I'm not claiming KnC has another rabbit in the hat, but They DID have one in there as they said they did, previously.

shuttle times for 28nm were ~80 days, 8 weeks was I agree, very well done on their part.

Are KNC and Cointerra specifically referenced in this document??

[Phoenix1969]

If the document is 100% true or not true at all is no matter, because Cybershuttle was done in mid February.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg6004642#msg6004642

[raskul]

If the document is 100% true or not true at all is no matter, because Cybershuttle was done in mid February.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg6004642#msg6004642

you are a giggle of a shill.
so mr, explain to us the difference between tape-out, and full mask?

you are telling us they are the same thing?

EDIT:
go back to selling snake oil. you know FUCK ALL.

apologies for my tone, this was out of order. R.

[Phoenix1969]

If the document is 100% true or not true at all is no matter, because Cybershuttle was done in mid February.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg6004642#msg6004642

you are a giggle of a shill.
so mr, explain to us the difference between tape-out, and full mask?

you are telling us they are the same thing?
go back to selling snake oil. you know FUCK ALL.

well, Mr Bad News; Cybershuttle has nothing to do with full mask, it's the step prior to that. ..and the post confuses pre-tape-out with post tapeout.
Cybershuttle is part of the tapeout process node offered by TSMC. The poster of that thread thinks cybershuttle is post tapeout, which is incorrect.
"snake oil", ROFL. Pot calling Kettle black here imho

He cites cybershuttle as being the reason KNC will be late....   when its been done since mid Feb.
That was part of the code re-submission in December.

[Phoenix1969]

If the document is 100% true or not true at all is no matter, because Cybershuttle was done in mid February.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg6004642#msg6004642

you are a giggle of a shill.
so mr, explain to us the difference between tape-out, and full mask?

you are telling us they are the same thing?
go back to selling snake oil. you know FUCK ALL.

well, Mr Bad News; Cybershuttle has nothing to do with full mask, it's the step prior to that. ..and the post confuses pre-tape-out with post tapeout.
Cybershuttle is part of the tapeout process node offered by TSMC. The poster of that thread thinks cybershuttle is post tapeout, which is incorrect.

tape out is just that - tape out. you are at least correct that cybershuttle has nothing to do with full mask, and as I pointed out in my blog - the time-frames, from tape-out are similar (cybershuttle / full-mask). Full mask happens post tape-out. you know FUCK ALL - go back to selling snake oil.

again, I will reiterate, my blog post was not directed at any one manufacturer. But I do understand your frustration, as the news just means it will be longer til you can get your photo taken with your #1 neptune (which will not have decent burn in and will likely set your house on fire).

okay, so knowing cybershuttle tapeout process is done 6 weeks ago, where do the "Full mask" delay estimates come from then? There is nothing cited to back up that claim.
BTW...  this "Fuck all" stuff really isn't necessary, is it?

[raskul]

If the document is 100% true or not true at all is no matter, because Cybershuttle was done in mid February.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg6004642#msg6004642

you are a giggle of a shill.
so mr, explain to us the difference between tape-out, and full mask?

you are telling us they are the same thing?
go back to selling snake oil. you know FUCK ALL.

well, Mr Bad News; Cybershuttle has nothing to do with full mask, it's the step prior to that. ..and the post confuses pre-tape-out with post tapeout.
Cybershuttle is part of the tapeout process node offered by TSMC. The poster of that thread thinks cybershuttle is post tapeout, which is incorrect.

tape out is just that - tape out. you are at least correct that cybershuttle has nothing to do with full mask, and as I pointed out in my blog - the time-frames, from tape-out are similar (cybershuttle / full-mask). Full mask happens post tape-out. you know FUCK ALL - go back to selling snake oil.

again, I will reiterate, my blog post was not directed at any one manufacturer. But I do understand your frustration, as the news just means it will be longer til you can get your photo taken with your #1 neptune (which will not have decent burn in and will likely set your house on fire).

okay, so knowing cybershuttle tapeout process is done 6 weeks ago, where do the "Full mask" delay estimates come from then? There is nothing cited to back up that claim.
BTW...  this "Fuck all" stuff really isn't necessary, is it?

tapeout has been done. cyberhshuttle has not. your manufacturer is compiling full mask.

[Phoenix1969]

If the document is 100% true or not true at all is no matter, because Cybershuttle was done in mid February.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg6004642#msg6004642

you are a giggle of a shill.
so mr, explain to us the difference between tape-out, and full mask?

you are telling us they are the same thing?
go back to selling snake oil. you know FUCK ALL.

well, Mr Bad News; Cybershuttle has nothing to do with full mask, it's the step prior to that. ..and the post confuses pre-tape-out with post tapeout.
Cybershuttle is part of the tapeout process node offered by TSMC. The poster of that thread thinks cybershuttle is post tapeout, which is incorrect.

tape out is just that - tape out. you are at least correct that cybershuttle has nothing to do with full mask, and as I pointed out in my blog - the time-frames, from tape-out are similar (cybershuttle / full-mask). Full mask happens post tape-out. you know FUCK ALL - go back to selling snake oil.

again, I will reiterate, my blog post was not directed at any one manufacturer. But I do understand your frustration, as the news just means it will be longer til you can get your photo taken with your #1 neptune (which will not have decent burn in and will likely set your house on fire).

okay, so knowing cybershuttle tapeout process is done 6 weeks ago, where do the "Full mask" delay estimates come from then? There is nothing cited to back up that claim.
BTW...  this "Fuck all" stuff really isn't necessary, is it?

tapeout has been done. cyberhshuttle has not. your manufacturer is compiling full mask.

Before you go any further, educate yourself on cybershuttle:
http://www.tsmc.com/english/dedicatedFoundry/services/cyberShuttle.htm

as you can see, "Cybershuttle" is indeed a coined term for TSMC's speedy tape-out development process.

[HardwareReviewer]

http://www.coindesk.com/mining-hardware-companies-miners-roundup/

[spiccioli]

They offered two options, to keep your hardware order and be compensated for their lateness with cloud hashing "while you wait" so to speak.
Or swap your hardware order for a cloud hashing order completely.

Hi Biffa,

do you have a link for the offer?

Thanks

spiccioli

From the "Plan B" announcement: https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-75

Over the next few months we are bringing online enough hashing power to make sure that any delay in the Neptune timeline will be compensated with a completely free hosted hashing packages to all fully paid customers.
 
In the addition to this commitment, as part of Plan B, for all Neptune customers, we will be offering a free conversion to a hosted hashing package

Thanks,

I did miss it...

spiccioli

[raskul]

If the document is 100% true or not true at all is no matter, because Cybershuttle was done in mid February.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg6004642#msg6004642

you are a giggle of a shill.
so mr, explain to us the difference between tape-out, and full mask?

you are telling us they are the same thing?
go back to selling snake oil. you know FUCK ALL.

well, Mr Bad News; Cybershuttle has nothing to do with full mask, it's the step prior to that. ..and the post confuses pre-tape-out with post tapeout.
Cybershuttle is part of the tapeout process node offered by TSMC. The poster of that thread thinks cybershuttle is post tapeout, which is incorrect.

tape out is just that - tape out. you are at least correct that cybershuttle has nothing to do with full mask, and as I pointed out in my blog - the time-frames, from tape-out are similar (cybershuttle / full-mask). Full mask happens post tape-out. you know FUCK ALL - go back to selling snake oil.

again, I will reiterate, my blog post was not directed at any one manufacturer. But I do understand your frustration, as the news just means it will be longer til you can get your photo taken with your #1 neptune (which will not have decent burn in and will likely set your house on fire).

okay, so knowing cybershuttle tapeout process is done 6 weeks ago, where do the "Full mask" delay estimates come from then? There is nothing cited to back up that claim.
BTW...  this "Fuck all" stuff really isn't necessary, is it?

tapeout has been done. cyberhshuttle has not. your manufacturer is compiling full mask.

Before you go any further, educate yourself on cybershuttle:
http://www.tsmc.com/english/dedicatedFoundry/services/cyberShuttle.htm

as you can see, "Cybershuttle" is indeed a coined term for TSMC's speedy tape-out development process.

sorry, no, it's most definitely, the step after t/o...

"CyberShuttle® services break the barrier by letting multiple designs share tooling costs through a multi-project mask set. "
and
"CyberShuttle® services also validate the sub-circuit functionality and process compatibility of IP, standard cell libraries and I/Os."

[faetos]

http://www.coindesk.com/mining-hardware-companies-miners-roundup/

odd that they didn't have the hardware that you can purchase now and have in your hands in 4 days. kfc surely can't do that unless it is for themselves. coindesk really is turning into some waste of internet space.

[tolip_wen]

shuttle times for 28nm were ~80 days, 8 weeks was I agree, very well done on their part.

I'm not trying to tag team ya here.
fenix and I are of WAY different ilk.
(I'm only a Jr. fanboy who likes to tinker with HW)

My ignorance is great regarding foundry schedules.

Based on my understanding of the link Phoenix provided.
Cybershuttle refers specifically to multiproject wafers.

KnCMiner may have thrown down for full wafers.
(with my money)
Time is money in this racket and the risk/reward may justify the position.
I think that is how they did it with 28nm.

Rather than quip about others ignorance why not educate?
(I don't dispute my ignorance)

Some negative Nancy's have already taken your post about a possible delay as gospel.
(see I am not above ad-hominim either)
Even though it is based on 'confidential sources' and what I consider possibly misleading terminology that does not apply to this situation.

At any rate, time will tell!

YMMV


*EDIT
While composing my post I see you have clearly self identified as a disruptor.
I'll apply Occams Razor as apropriate

[Biodom]

I know that technical details are important, but what we don't know is what will be the hashing power and energy usage.
At BTC $456, S1 is $2.26/GH with 5day delivery. I want a new cool machine as much as anyone, but it has to be 5 TH delivered now. I would also appreciate some sort of compensation-they are not legally have to do it, but considering the datorhall impact, it would be a good gesture. Something like 2-2.5 TH free from the datorhall until presumably late May delivery for batches 0(CA) and 1. Anything short of this and refunds will continue until only 20-25% are left (according to poll on knc website). I think that they have something coming soon as far as policy is concerned because they suddenly posted that refund problems have been resolved.

[Wesly]

tape out is just that - tape out. you are at least correct that cybershuttle has nothing to do with full mask, and as I pointed out in my blog - the time-frames, from tape-out are similar (cybershuttle / full-mask). Full mask happens post tape-out. you know F__K ALL - go back to selling snake oil.

again, I will reiterate, my blog post was not directed at any one manufacturer. But I do understand your frustration, as the news just means it will be longer til you can get your photo taken with your #1 neptune (which will not have decent burn in and will likely set your house on fire).

It is funny (or rather ironic) that you are the one who is acting like the "Know it all" or at least that's what you are so desperately trying to believe that you result into name calling in back-to-back posts.  You know what they say, whoever screams the loudest knows the least...

How much Ego does one must possess to create a new post about a "news" and quoting his own blog as source and proof of this news?  As if that wasn't enough, that said egotistical person has the gut to post a Please Donate at the end..  As if he is providing a great service to everyone.  You are a sad, sad little man.  I am sorry for you.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=551261.0

[raskul]

tape out is just that - tape out. you are at least correct that cybershuttle has nothing to do with full mask, and as I pointed out in my blog - the time-frames, from tape-out are similar (cybershuttle / full-mask). Full mask happens post tape-out. you know F__K ALL - go back to selling snake oil.

again, I will reiterate, my blog post was not directed at any one manufacturer. But I do understand your frustration, as the news just means it will be longer til you can get your photo taken with your #1 neptune (which will not have decent burn in and will likely set your house on fire).

It is funny (or rather ironic) that you are the one who is acting like the "Know it all" or at least that's what you are so desperately trying to believe that you result into name calling in back-to-back posts.  You know what they say, whoever screams the loudest knows the least...

How much Ego does one must possess to create a new post about a "news" and quoting his own blog as source and proof of this news?  As if that wasn't enough, that said egotistical person has the gut to post a Please Donate at the end..  As if he is providing a great service to everyone.  You are a sad, sad little man.  I am sorry for you.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=551261.0

yeah that'll be me, a man with an opinion, i know it runs against the grain but there you have it.

ADD: I do admit that I took my personal repulsion of Eric Hansen and I applied it to my reasoning.
I was wrong in that I should have just ignored him in the first place. I have not offered you any proof of anything, I feel that proof will show for itself from what I have read in the confidential documentation which was leaked to me, whilst I was researching something along a totally different line.

I also understand the frustration that your hardware manufacturer is screwing you over left and right, while you attack the messenger of bad news.
I'm sorry for your frustration and also for the millions of £'s that your h/w builder is accruing while you are the ones who have funded their greed.
you asked for disruptive? you are welcome.

direct your anger at those who are delaying your profit, not the ones who show it in plain sight.