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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3041659 times)
joeventura
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March 19, 2014, 07:32:30 PM
 #30981

are you saying you got a jupiter to scryptmine?

No! I am saying with 15mh of Gridseed scypt miners I am doing this.

I sold my Jupiter for what I bought it for a few weeks ago.

Timing my friend, is everything.

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sickpig
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March 19, 2014, 07:33:11 PM
 #30982


I understand, two data points you are missing:

1. Not just Litecoin - coins change profitability very fast, most coins (like DOGE) are 4400% more profitable than Bitcoin,
Multipools like scryptguild and clevermining are paying 0.00867-0.009 per Mh per day

2. I have 15Mh mining right now and I am making 0.09 btc a day with scryptguild.com

got it now.

the aformentioned exchanges is transparently choosing the more profitable scrypt coin to mine. this is clever.

anyway I still think that buying crypto is more profitable than mining.

with $10K I could buy BTC16.5, you need to mine for more thatn 180 days to get all those coins (at .09 BTC/day).

the only cons I see in the "buying now" approach is that:

-  you've to have a decent enviroment (security wise) to protect your stash

-  having all of your cryptos at your disposal means that you need a serious "investiment" strategy and a lot of strength to adhere to such a plan Tongue



Bitcoin is a participatory system which ought to respect the right of self determinism of all of its users - Gregory Maxwell.
sickpig
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March 19, 2014, 07:33:55 PM
 #30983

are you saying you got a jupiter to scryptmine?

No! I am saying with 15mh of Gridseed scypt miners I am doing this.

I sold my Jupiter for what I bought it for a few weeks ago.

Timing my friend, is everything.

clever.

Bitcoin is a participatory system which ought to respect the right of self determinism of all of its users - Gregory Maxwell.
Phoenix1969
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March 19, 2014, 07:39:03 PM
 #30984

are you saying you got a jupiter to scryptmine?

No! I am saying with 15mh of Gridseed scypt miners I am doing this.

I sold my Jupiter for what I bought it for a few weeks ago.

Timing my friend, is everything.

clever.
Yep Yep, nice
...aaaah, how well we know about the "timing" thing... haha...kudos


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joeventura
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March 19, 2014, 07:47:27 PM
 #30985


I understand, two data points you are missing:

1. Not just Litecoin - coins change profitability very fast, most coins (like DOGE) are 4400% more profitable than Bitcoin,
Multipools like scryptguild and clevermining are paying 0.00867-0.009 per Mh per day

2. I have 15Mh mining right now and I am making 0.09 btc a day with scryptguild.com

got it now.

the aformentioned exchanges is transparently choosing the more profitable scrypt coin to mine. this is clever.

anyway I still think that buying crypto is more profitable than mining.

with $10K I could buy BTC16.5, you need to mine for more thatn 180 days to get all those coins (at .09 BTC/day).

the only cons I see in the "buying now" approach is that:

-  you've to have a decent enviroment (security wise) to protect your stash

-  having all of your cryptos at your disposal means that you need a serious "investiment" strategy and a lot of strength to adhere to such a plan Tongue




yes I am with you, there is money to be made many places, just the arbitrage between the same coin on one exchange to the next can net you 10% a day.

Early on I bought a lot (ahem) of Dogecoin for 0.0000008 per and it did not take long for them to be worth much much more!

re: security, paper wallets are the only way to go.

When I get X coins (different for each coin) they go to a paper wallet.
Period.
You have to be vigilant.


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FUKT
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March 19, 2014, 07:58:35 PM
 #30986

news letter from KNC

Quote
We are now in the foundry stage and as soon as the chips arrive we will let you all know. More info about the tape out is available here.


Thanks
KnCMiner Team


What does Foundry stage mean? I wish they would update on power specs, I have a lot of Neptunes coming my way and really want to begin ordering in PSUs

It means its another 4 months before you get your extremely inefficient piece of junk.
dimaze
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March 19, 2014, 08:04:07 PM
 #30987

Quote
Bitmain wiped out Neptune. They probably didn't need to keep lowering their prices, but they did, until their price matched exactly Neptune per GH Grin

(N.B. Do the math - their current price of 0.988BTC matches exactly)

Shipping from stock, they have destroyed BFL/KNC's cosy pre-order business.

I predict Bitmain (or some other Chinese company using the Bitmain business model) will flood the market with ~10MH litecoin rigs as soon as it's feasible.

I disagree that it completely wiped out the Neptune. I'm glad there is more competition out there to make the market more competitive, it ultimately drives companies to deliver more.

Here's a calculator I utilized to cross reference 3 Bitmain miners to the Neptune batches.

This assumes the following variables:
625 USD/BTC
15% increased difficulty per jump, decreasing by 3% every jump
1% BTC/USD increase per jump.
Advertised hash rates.
32 jump calculations.
On the Neptune batches, an additional 500$ is added to reflect PSUs.
Bitmain S2 (Second Batch) begins hashing 4/12
KnC CA batch delivers hashpower/miner 4/12, and every additional batch 3 jumps later.
Public Batch hashing 5/18
Second Public Patch Hashing 6/23

Bitmain S2 3x
Neptune CA
Neptune Public Batch 1
Neptune Public Batch 2

Conclusion on the above:

The CA batch will outperform the Bitmains due to power consumption.
Neptune Public batches fall short on expectations. It would be more better off to buy and hold BTC or go with Bitmain (which is sold out already)

Additional Consideration:

The warranty period on the Neptunes is a full year. This beats Bitmain's 90 days on the S2 *(I can't see warranty information for either the S2 or Neptune, I am assuming they will match their previous products)
In the long run, at today's prices, the Neptunes will be unprofitable at around 123B difficulty. The Bitmains will be unprofitable around 93B.

The unknown:

We're not exactly sure when KnC will deliver their hashpower. 11% power reduction has been announced, but nothing set in stone about how much it would push out. I personally think it will be at least a 4 TH unit, with consumption around 2500 watts, in which case the first Public batch would be better than Bitmain, but the third batch will still be lagging behind.
Obviously, the market can crash, to earth or the moon.

Final thoughts:

The CA batch should be a great investment. I'm holding my orders. My advice to the consumers of public batches is to hold on and wait for more information on the Neptune along with paying close attention to the market. Do your due diligence.

This next month will be a damn fun ride, that's for sure. Happy mining everyone!

Phoenix1969
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March 19, 2014, 08:11:42 PM
 #30988

hmm, based on "jupiter formfactor", I don't see why it's ten grand
Looks like they did a good study on what the market would bear.

One good thing about all this scryptmining stuff is that it will help with BTC difficulty slowing down a bit.


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sickpig
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March 19, 2014, 08:17:21 PM
 #30989


yes I am with you, there is money to be made many places, just the arbitrage between the same coin on one exchange to the next can net you 10% a day.

Early on I bought a lot (ahem) of Dogecoin for 0.0000008 per and it did not take long for them to be worth much much more!


I miss the doge train due to naivety and lack of proper attitude. I hope to learn from that missing profit :/  

Quote

re: security, paper wallets are the only way to go.

When I get X coins (different for each coin) they go to a paper wallet.
Period.

amen.

Bitcoin is a participatory system which ought to respect the right of self determinism of all of its users - Gregory Maxwell.
xstr8guy
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March 19, 2014, 08:28:58 PM
 #30990

Saying the Titan is a diversionary tactic is straight BULLSHIT, when WE voted for them to make the litecoin rig several months ago.
But is does help explain where/why everyone has been very extremely busy
Boden, Neptune, Titan...
Wish I was there helping actually.

Why not? It was a great career move for Bitcoinorama!  I mean, look where he is today.   Kiss
Phoenix1969
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March 19, 2014, 08:40:07 PM
 #30991

Saying the Titan is a diversionary tactic is straight BULLSHIT, when WE voted for them to make the litecoin rig several months ago.
But is does help explain where/why everyone has been very extremely busy
Boden, Neptune, Titan...
Wish I was there helping actually.

Why not? It was a great career move for Bitcoinorama!  I mean, look where he is today.   Kiss
Great for a young guy like him...
My decrepit twisted arthritic riddled spine isn't up to the frigid weather... lol
...and he's waay smarter than me, I mean look... he's not posting in here...  Grin


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March 19, 2014, 08:43:41 PM
 #30992

Hey KNC, go fuck yourselves with your pre-order (pre-mined) bullshit

Before when we all bought Jupiters, KNC didn't have a mining center to fire up new hardware and mine the hell out of new boards (hosting took months to iron out)
but now if you pre-order a neptune or titan you are just feeding their mining monster and you'll get maybe batch 5 of their hardware as the customers 'first batch'

Antminers and Gridseeds was a nice refreshing change to mining but big bad KNC has to crash the party and bully people with super miner specs to take your money hostage in fear


You COULD of sold us extra modules in Feb and kept a loyal fan base, but NOOOOOO you showed your new stripes so again... go fuck yourselves





+1000

This is just another blatant money grab by KNC to build their massive mining farm. Knc still hasn't delivered a single Neptune, so I seriously doubt we'll see a Titan anytime soon.

Don't fall for it, people!!!

They are doing EXACTLY what we ASKED AND VOTED for.
Hahaha, and then why did we even vote for them to create Titan?

There was an overwhelming response to that vote, and now that they deliver exactly what we asked for, they get chastized for it.
Typical for this forum I must say.

They have the money to fund the chip mask themselves and there is no need for more pre-orders. I do understand that all the components must be paid, but they could just do 50% now and 50% before shipping. Considering that their datacenter is already making money for them then i don't understand this pre-order stuff. The only explanation is that it helps them manage all the supply chain a bit better, but taking 100% payment in advance is just silly right now considering that we know that they have more than enough money to do it by themselves. But just like addicts, if i had the money i will buy one just for fun Smiley

H/w Hosting Directory & Reputation - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622998.0
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March 19, 2014, 08:55:16 PM
Last edit: March 19, 2014, 09:14:15 PM by Phoenix1969
 #30993

Hey KNC, go fuck yourselves with your pre-order (pre-mined) bullshit

Before when we all bought Jupiters, KNC didn't have a mining center to fire up new hardware and mine the hell out of new boards (hosting took months to iron out)
but now if you pre-order a neptune or titan you are just feeding their mining monster and you'll get maybe batch 5 of their hardware as the customers 'first batch'

Antminers and Gridseeds was a nice refreshing change to mining but big bad KNC has to crash the party and bully people with super miner specs to take your money hostage in fear


You COULD of sold us extra modules in Feb and kept a loyal fan base, but NOOOOOO you showed your new stripes so again... go fuck yourselves





+1000

This is just another blatant money grab by KNC to build their massive mining farm. Knc still hasn't delivered a single Neptune, so I seriously doubt we'll see a Titan anytime soon.

Don't fall for it, people!!!

They are doing EXACTLY what we ASKED AND VOTED for.
Hahaha, and then why did we even vote for them to create Titan?

There was an overwhelming response to that vote, and now that they deliver exactly what we asked for, they get chastized for it.
Typical for this forum I must say.

They have the money to fund the chip mask themselves and there is no need for more pre-orders. I do understand that all the components must be paid, but they could just do 50% now and 50% before shipping. Considering that their datacenter is already making money for them then i don't understand this pre-order stuff. The only explanation is that it helps them manage all the supply chain a bit better, but taking 100% payment in advance is just silly right now considering that we know that they have more than enough money to do it by themselves. But just like addicts, if i had the money i will buy one just for fun Smiley
I can surely see that point, but at the same time, imagine once if they waited until it was produced to sell it...
(They surely don't need the 50%) and collecting twice is a pain in the butt
Other companies will gobble up those prospective orders with the preorder game, the diff will rise before they are ready, and they would then have to charge less for, and lose an abundance of profitability(Theirs) It just makes good sense right now from a manufacturer standpoint at this stage to do preorders and deal with any refunds as they come IMHO

this bit on Titan is interesting tho...."as this is KnCMiner we of course reserve the right to increase the performance at any time"
Ug, back to the calculator... hehe  
Q3 is just too damned far away for my taste here


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joeventura
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March 19, 2014, 09:14:58 PM
 #30994


yes I am with you, there is money to be made many places, just the arbitrage between the same coin on one exchange to the next can net you 10% a day.

Early on I bought a lot (ahem) of Dogecoin for 0.0000008 per and it did not take long for them to be worth much much more!


I miss the doge train due to naivety and lack of proper attitude. I hope to learn from that missing profit :/  

Quote

re: security, paper wallets are the only way to go.

When I get X coins (different for each coin) they go to a paper wallet.
Period.

amen.

the DOGE train may still be rolling

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March 19, 2014, 09:40:48 PM
 #30995

It makes no sense whatsoever to pre-order a litecoin rig for delivery 6 months from now.

If you have $10,000 burning a hole in your pockets - buy some gpus and be mining with substantial MH in 2 to 3 days.

Then in X months time, you will still have substantial resale value in the motherboards, gpus etc and can sell them and move up to a 25MH or 50MH rig or whatever is available. PLUS you will have X months mining profits to help with the purchase!

Why put your money in the "KNC Savings and Free-Loans-For-Us Bank" for 6 months, doing nothing except earning KNC interest, when you can have your money working for YOU in 2 to 3 days?
hey that's what i did, but last year, now selling GPUs heaters and buying dualminer USBs or Gridseeds....then will upgrade to the next gen. scrypt miner....I hear someone is trying to use an Antminer and a PC to make a giant scrypt miner...possible???, we shall see.
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March 19, 2014, 10:06:27 PM
 #30996

knc titan other methond for take your bitcoins  Grin

looking job
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March 19, 2014, 10:06:35 PM
Last edit: March 19, 2014, 10:19:41 PM by vaelrock
 #30997

Expand your horizons outside of Bitcoin and you will see there is a lot of money to be made now, by the time KNC delivers their solution Litecoin will likely be $25-$30 (IMHO)
I've briefly check and you can get 15Mh/s of scrypt mining power for ~$10K. it will give you 2.6 ltc/day (0.07583304 btc/day at current exchange).
Your math is a little off, 15Mh/s will get you 0.09 btc a day, that is not me estimating by the way.
could be.

this is the first litecoin profit calculator google decided to serve me:

http://www.coinwarz.com/calculators/litecoin-mining-calculator/?h=15000.00&p=500.00&pc=0.00&pf=0.00&d=5735.89666335&r=50.00000000&er=0.02883000&btcer=611.52000000&hc=10000

I understand, two data points you are missing:

1. Not just Litecoin - coins change profitability very fast, most coins (like DOGE) are 4400% more profitable than Bitcoin,
Multipools like scryptguild and clevermining are paying 0.00867-0.009 per Mh per day

2. I have 15Mh mining right now and I am making 0.09 btc a day with scryptguild.com
So Titan, today would be around .6btc/day...  wow

Now you got it!!!

I am making more with the the 15Mh I am mining scrypt with now than the 750Gh I was mining BTC with last week.
and my power consumption is 1/4 to 1/3rd what it was and the heat produced is near zero.

If I wanted I could run my miners in my 90 degree attic all summer and they would never overheat.
Those are actually the best ROI numbers I've heard of yet.

Totally false. If you have ONE titan and nobody else have one, then yes, you can get 0.5BTC/day tomorrow.

Except that when you'll get your titan, nearly 3k other customers will have theirs too. Network diff will jump to 20k+ (easily) and you'll have only 0.15BTC/day at best. And that is if the titans are delivered tomorrow. If it's delivered in august, you can expect a diff of 30k easily (probably more, except if there's a DOGE 2 robbing the hashrate again).
But even with a magical impossible constant 20k diff for 6 months, you'd ROI your Titan in ~ 5 to 6 months. It's ok, but that will not happen (who in their right mind can expect a diff of 20k in jan/feb 2015 ?).

You have to take into account that 3000 titans means more added GH/s to the network than the current total network of litecoin + every others alts.

A Neptune is currently a better investment to my eyes. (expected ROI in 4 to 5 months with 4TH/s delivered in may with a diff of ~8.5 million, and of ~24 million 4 months after).

Oh, and expect nearly every not half assed alt coin to have their algo changed to n-adaptive scrypt, meaning the titan will only be usable to mine litecoin (except if the litecoin dev team also changes the algo, but I don't think KnC did all their investment without asking them (bribing ?) beforehand).
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March 19, 2014, 10:27:05 PM
 #30998

I can not wait to see people pre order then see it late.  Same thing over and over...yet they keep pre ordering.  100MH in 6+ months will not make much... I have 100MH Scrypt and for the last months nothing but a fast decline.
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March 19, 2014, 10:30:26 PM
 #30999

Totally false. If you have ONE titan and nobody else have one, then yes, you can get 0.5BTC/day tomorrow.

Except that when you'll get your titan, nearly 3k other customers will have theirs too. Network diff will jump to 20k+ (easily) and you'll have only 0.15BTC/day at best. And that is if the titans are delivered tomorrow. If it's delivered in august, you can expect a diff of 30k easily (probably more, except if there's a DOGE 2 robbing the hashrate again).
But even with a magical impossible constant 20k diff for 6 months, you'd ROI your Titan in ~ 5 to 6 months. It's ok, but that will not happen (who in their right mind can expect a diff of 20k in jan/feb 2015 ?).

You have to take into account that 3000 titans means more added GH/s to the network than the current total network of litecoin + every others alts.

A Neptune is currently a better investment to my eyes.

Oh, and expect nearly every not half assed alt coin to have their algo changed to n-adaptive scrypt, meaning the titan will only be usable to mine litecoin (except if the litecoin dev team also changes the algo, but I don't think KnC did all their investment without asking them (bribing ?) beforehand).
Great post.

I don't think knc even thought about this yet - they only decided to make a litecoin miner last night, after all Grin

And it also goes back to faetos question about if they are going to run off a few thousand titans for themselves first, before customers get theirs. Litecoin difficulty readjusts very quickly, so profits can sink fast.

It only makes sense for scrypt coins, designed to be asic-proof, to adapt to remain asic-proof. Surely all alt coins will have to consider what to do soon, with the gc3355 already coming off production lines fast.

If they haven't been sufficiently "bribed", Litecoin devs could wait until a few weeks before titan ships and then change to an adaptive n-factor, rendering titan useless for litecoin. That would be funny Grin

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March 19, 2014, 10:31:55 PM
 #31000

The debs do not care about ASIC they have stated they will not hard fork to anything else.
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