Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[El duderino_]

Had a Nice dinner with gin and wine, a town party after, probably everyone can imagine my b00z status right now.....

Of to bed for early HODLsleep and skip the pee-pic

Nite WO-bro’s!!!!!!!! Love you HODLers!!!!!

[heslo]

Had a Nice dinner with gin and wine, a town party after, probably everyone can imagine my b00z status right now.....

Of to bed for early HODLsleep and skip the pee-pic

Nite WO-bro’s!!!!!!!! Love you HODLers!!!!!

Night mate, 10400 when you wake

[El duderino_]

 ^^
Five digital fight
Drunk not knowing what I write
But still, NO homo .....

[JayJuanGee]

Things are becoming more and more chaotic.
My preference would be for flat equities and for bitcoin to appreciate against this background.
It does not look this way at the moment.
Dow is actually below its Jan 22, 2018 value, some bull market we have. Oh, well.

I am still of the opinion that bitcoin needs at least a flat market to grow.
If stocks would get seriously smashed, btc would decline as well, at least initially.

Carney's libra-like ideas are meaningless without multiple major countries backing it and I don't see anyone even acknowledging it (so far).

You are surely coming off as a weak hand, Biodom.... like you are easily scared into doing something crazy, like selling on the way down (or worse at the bottom)...     

Same thing with me 1 year beforehand time has passed When the money is low and there are many problems around(Example: political problem, family problem, official problem etc.) the only thought is how to get profitable.

 Don't worry @Biodom expectation one day we are glad more than 2018 price.

To me, that seems like a sign of having had over invested into BTC.

Of course, we have historically had outrageously bullish periods in bitcoin, and we currently seem to be in the midst of an outrageously bullish period  - yeah, it might not work out - meaning that the price might go down instead of up, but still.. fuck, we had about 3.5x price increase in less than 3 months, which came on the heels of a bout a year long bear market and consolidation in the $3ks that has now converted into consolidation that has been largely in the $9k to $12ks. 

I cannot see hardly any reason to be complaining about that, even if our potential upcoming bullrun gets delayed for a couple of years, we still are in a great position, including the fact that it seems that shitcoins are getting purged on the way up rather than on the way down.  Many of us were partly disheartened in bitcoin's situation because we kind of figured that there was going to be a continued dragging down of bitcoin because of the purging of the excessive value of shitcoins, but we have been able to experience an alternative scenario to have a purging of shitcoins while bitcoin is having some upwards price performance.

UP or down from here, I don't have many clues, but still seems to me that buying on the way down would be a better strategy than doing something irrational.  We are already bouncing in a bit more than a 30% price correction when we are in the $10k area that had gone down to a bit over 35% correction in the $9k area, so there is no given scenario that we have to have more down before up.. even though at the same time, it does seem to be that we remain in a bull market, therefore, up remains more likely than down, even if the fear index might be showing a decent amount of fear, currently.

[JayJuanGee]

Hodlllllllllllllll / StrongHats

I need something a little more...substantial to HODL on to.

Don't be dissing spinners.

There is a kind of saying amongst some peeps that if you get them skinny, they are always gonna get BIGGER.

[d_eddie]

Relaying response:

(snip)
Again note I am not a BSV-shill. BSV is likely a decoy employed by Craig to obscure that he is really reinstating legacy, immutable Bitcoin.

Thank you! How could we manage without our daily Shelby? Luckily he's not a shill, since he explicitly said so.
/s

[JayJuanGee]

...
The consolidation might take a bit longer ...

Interesting find, mindrust. But ATH before halving is impossible, isn't it? So I would extend everything on the time axis.

Yeah.. that is why it seems that we are more in early 2016 rather than early 2017, even if we did happen to experience a bit of overexuberance with hitting the mayer multiple of 2.5 at $13,880.. which shows that we might get a bit of front running this time, but I doubt that we are going to get BIG ass movement before the halvening... so even if we get some more up movement before the halvening, there is likely going to be more upward price movement coming after the halvening, too.

[JayJuanGee]

This is what I'm seeing on BTC dominance graph:



Seriously, IF this breaks down, go get some alts to further increase your BTC stash.

Hahahahahaha

It would not be very smart to be trading based on that kind of information or even deciding whether or not to play around with shitcoins based on that kind of information.

[realr0ach]

We all expect and know, there will be a time in the future, Bitcoin will become just like Gold.

Lifeless, non-volatile, boring.

Wrong, and you're a lying fucktard for constantly spamming disinformation like this in an attempt to scam people.  Bitcoin has a synthetic cost of production, pseudo price floor that's recursive based on it's own demand. Meaning if nobody on the planet wants to buy gold or silver for the entire year, it has no effect on it's cost of production - it still costs the same and this is one of the reasons for why it functions as a *reliable* store of value.

If nobody wants to buy Bitcoin - even temporarily going out of fashion for a few months - miners shutting off from being unprofitable implodes it's fake price floor and it's impossible to function as a store of value at all.  New coins are always being generated by recycling transaction fees and people will just buy those coins at a cheaper cost of production instead of buying yours from a higher one.  In other words, since Bitcoin is not a real commodity or resource and it's pseudo price floor mechanism is inherently terrible for facilitating either stability or store of value metrics at all, Bitcoin will always be destined to be a highly volatile pump and dump scam.

[HairyMaclairy]

3. The way they truly get you is by taxing gains, but allowing only $3000 per year in losses. This way, you could be in a situation where you pay large gains one year, but are allowed only limited recourse (3K) when you have a large loss. I find this very unfair.

Yes, but any losses that exceed $3K you can roll over YoY.

True, but it is still a limitation as there is no such limit on gains.
It is what it is.

Gents, to provide a little clarity here, the 3k max is for deductions against regular income. So if you have a salary or wages then yes you can only roll over 3k worth of losses as deductions each year and this can be done till you die or run out of losses. But..... for capital gains you can deduct all your capital losses from prior years with no limit whatsoever. The way they fuck you is you could gain a million one year, pay taxes on it then lose a million the first day of the next year and get no refund for the taxes you paid the year prior. You would either have to make another million in capital gains to use those losses as a deduction or you would have to live 333 more years making a salary and writing off 3k each year. The tax man is a real sob. A more fair form of theft would allow you to get a refund for past taxes paid.

That’s why you get a 50% discount on your CGT taxes. For taking that risk.

If you don’t like the risk, structure it as trading income so you can deduct all the losses.  

You get to choose how it is treated if you are smart about it.  You shouldn’t complain about outcomes which are the result of your choices.   

[realr0ach]

If you think the tax system is bad now, just wait to see what happens if they ever succeed in forcing their digital only, cashless society, slavery system.  I forget what the percentage is, but people have done studies claiming that no matter how high the govt sets the tax rate at, they DON'T ACTUALLY PULL IN MORE TAXES by doing so.  In other words, even when they set the tax rates to like 90% back in the old days, they were still pulling in the same percentages of income stream as before.

People either get creative in hiding their assets somehow, or they just flat out refuse to pay it.  Govt is a cancer that would grow out of control and take over the entire planet if this was not the case of people having the ability to just flat out boycott the system when it ridicuously oversteps it's bounds.  In a cashless society slavery system like Bitcoin though, govt can just mandate everyone is forced to use only domestic transaction validators, regulate all the giant mining pools, and forcibly extract whatever percentage they want that passes through like a gasoline tax.  There is then no limit whatsoever on govt tyranny and instead of revolution occurring by financial boycott, the govt basically forces kinetic revolution instead.

[HairyMaclairy]

If you have 10BTC, you are a Sat billionaire.

[JayJuanGee]

If you have 10BTC, you are a Sat billionaire.

How many do you need to be a multi-billionnaire?  What's the entry level to "multi-"?  My tentative guess is minimum would be 30 BTC.  Less than 30 BTC would not be enough, unless exaggeration is involved.

[Hueristic]

Not that most people here need convincing, but here is a very detailed description of why bitcoin investment is much preferred over alts:

https://medium.com/@damiandurruty/bitcoin-not-ethereum-4d916f519f11

There is a lot of truth in this article.

If you have 10BTC, you are a Sat billionaire.

How many do you need to be a multi-billionnaire?  What's the entry level to "multi-"?  My tentative guess is minimum would be 30 BTC.  Less than 30 BTC would not be enough, unless exaggeration is involved.

2 is multi JJG, I.e more than 1.

Added: must be a multiple of 1 I believe. I did a google to be sure and was surprised to find ambiguous answers abound.

[Biodom]

If you have 10BTC, you are a Sat billionaire.

funny...Circle OTC trade is $100K minimum, which is almost exactly 10 btc.
I wonder if there is a realization that each trade might constitute many $$ millions (if not a cool bil) later on.

[bkbirge]

Not that most people here need convincing, but here is a very detailed description of why bitcoin investment is much preferred over alts:

https://medium.com/@damiandurruty/bitcoin-not-ethereum-4d916f519f11

Thanks for sharing, very interesting article, merit to you.

[Biodom]

Not that most people here need convincing, but here is a very detailed description of why bitcoin investment is much preferred over alts:

https://medium.com/@damiandurruty/bitcoin-not-ethereum-4d916f519f11

Thanks for sharing, very interesting article, merit to you.

Sure, I also thought that author (who is an elite programmer) described it all very succinctly.

[JayJuanGee]

If you have 10BTC, you are a Sat billionaire.

How many do you need to be a multi-billionnaire?  What's the entry level to "multi-"?  My tentative guess is minimum would be 30 BTC.  Less than 30 BTC would not be enough, unless exaggeration is involved.

2 is multi JJG, I.e more than 1.

Added: must be a multiple of 1 I believe. I did a google to be sure and was surprised to find ambiguous answers abound.

Well, i kind of suspected that the concept of multi- was ambiguous, and that is why I was a bit more conservative in my own accepted definition, which requires three....  


Right now, with current BTC prices floating around $10k, you would be floating around BTC millionnaire status with 100 BTC.  However, I would argue that you need  300 BTC, at this particular price range to proclaim multi-milliionnaire status (in terms of your BTC holdings), without engaging in exaggeration.

I understand that guys are going to differ in this matter, and I personally give more credibility to more conservative assertions.

[VB1001]

Bitcoin is Not Too Slow

Bitcoin ≠ Visa

Ultimately, bitcoin is not competing with Visa for supremacy in global payments. Instead, bitcoin is competing with the dollar, euro, yen and gold as money, and any comparison to Visa, its transaction volume or transaction speed is fundamentally flawed. Bitcoin fulfills the role of currency issuer and final settlement. As a result, the proper comparison would be between bitcoin and the Fed as currency issuer and as a clearing mechanism. No one makes the mistake of confusing the functions of Visa for that of the New York Fed, but for some reason, the comparison is often made between Visa and bitcoin.

While it would require time and investment, Visa’s payment network could sit on top of the bitcoin network to fulfill payments much the same way it sits on top of the existing banking system. Rather than clearing the currency through a central bank, final settlement of transactions would clear through the bitcoin network. In the existing architecture, the payments layer (Visa) and the settlement layer (banking network/central banks) are separate and distinct. The principal problem bitcoin intends to solve has little to do with the former, but instead, with the mechanism by which currency is issued and cleared (think the Fed and QE). Visa helps move dollars but Visa is not the dollar. It is a technology company that provides a service; it has 17,000 employees. Bitcoin has none.

Whether credit or debit, Visa is an inherently trust-based credit system. While consumers generally associate swiping a Visa card (or the equivalent) at a point of sale terminal as payment, it really is not. Instead, balances are checked, transactions are authorized and settlement occurs later. Dollars are not actually cleared through a central bank or settled at the point of sale every time a transaction is processed. Individual transactions are also never really cleared. Instead, transactions are batched together, netted and settled at a later point in time; only then are accounts credited with proper balances. So when someone attempts to equate a Visa transaction with final settlement, that is just not the way the world works. But that is the comparison that is implicitly being made when someone attempts to compare Visa with bitcoin.

https://www.unchained-capital.com/blog/bitcoin-is-not-too-slow/

Good morning WO,s good article, with more interesting points:

Bitcoin fixes this
Not a Payments Rail
Security Trade-offs
Bitcoin ≠ Visa
Bitcoin vs. the Federal Reserve
Scaling Bitcoin is 1 to n

[Lambie Slayer]

3. The way they truly get you is by taxing gains, but allowing only $3000 per year in losses. This way, you could be in a situation where you pay large gains one year, but are allowed only limited recourse (3K) when you have a large loss. I find this very unfair.

Yes, but any losses that exceed $3K you can roll over YoY.

True, but it is still a limitation as there is no such limit on gains.
It is what it is.

Gents, to provide a little clarity here, the 3k max is for deductions against regular income. So if you have a salary or wages then yes you can only roll over 3k worth of losses as deductions each year and this can be done till you die or run out of losses. But..... for capital gains you can deduct all your capital losses from prior years with no limit whatsoever. The way they fuck you is you could gain a million one year, pay taxes on it then lose a million the first day of the next year and get no refund for the taxes you paid the year prior. You would either have to make another million in capital gains to use those losses as a deduction or you would have to live 333 more years making a salary and writing off 3k each year. The tax man is a real sob. A more fair form of theft would allow you to get a refund for past taxes paid.

That’s why you get a 50% discount on your CGT taxes. For taking that risk.

If you don’t like the risk, structure it as trading income so you can deduct all the losses.  

You get to choose how it is treated if you are smart about it.  You shouldn’t complain about outcomes which are the result of your choices.  

Who is complaining about an outcome? Its a hypothetical, not an irl experience. The "tax man is an sob" is a statement of fact, not a complaint.  

I think you are misunderstanding something Im saying also, bc as far as not liking the risk and structuring the income as trading income so you can deduct losses, well you can deduct all capital losses whether you declare yourself an investor or a trader. Thats what ive been talking about all along. Status declaration does not give or take away this ability, its built in for everyone. What neither a trader or investor can do is use a capital loss to get a rebate on past taxes paid. This imo is unfair to people who might find themselves in this situation. These could also be people who sold a house, land, or business at a large loss but had large cap gains they paid taxes on the year before. It applies to all capital losses as far as I know unless you have new info for me.