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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 21581398 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (143 posts by 33 users deleted.)
Icygreen
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February 21, 2020, 12:39:10 AM

Just got an email from Trezor with a link to their halving blog which mostly shits on PlanBTC stock to flow model.  I've always considered the S2F strong hopium for hodlers so nothing new but nice to get level-headed approach to alternative narratives.


TLDR, S2F model shows scarcity, not demand. Price and demand historically goes up with each supply halving, how much this time, still nobody knows.
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bitserve
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February 21, 2020, 12:46:41 AM

Just got an email from Trezor with a link to their halving blog which mostly shits on PlanBTC stock to flow model.  I've always considered the S2F strong hopium for hodlers so nothing new but nice to get level-headed approach to alternative narratives.


TLDR, S2F model shows scarcity, not demand. Price and demand historically goes up with each supply halving, how much this time, still nobody knows.

Which is why I have always said the S2F will only be valid until it isn't, and that is probably coming soon.... maybe in one year, maybe two... It is just a matter of time it reaches a price mathematically impossible to achieve. But way sooner than reaching that point it will begin to fail.

Can Bitcoin reach $100K in the next couple of years? Yes, it is a *possibility*. I don't even give it a 50/50 chance... which is a lot anyways!

Can S2F model still be valid 10 years from now? No, it simply can't.

Nice hopium though.
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February 21, 2020, 01:07:08 AM

Kind of like when the US Govt outlawed possession of gold. Not much changes.

Don't worry though, if you are rich enough laws do not apply to you. Cultivate political pull, it is the currency of the next century.
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February 21, 2020, 01:17:03 AM


Not at all. I am very pissed atm. But I knew that had to happen. I just thought crypto was still minor enough to not warrant that kind of new rules. I guess adoption is already reaching levels where they think they need to use the "tools" at their disposal.

Governments would never let everyone go and switch to a different kind of asset they can't control in some way. Making kind of "ilegal" to have "hidden assets" (unreported to them) they secure they can control the flow (and taxable events) of those.

Also, this is what happens when a radical left wing alliance takes over the government as it has happened in Spain: The horror.

Fucking communists.

That is why we need the infrastructure in place to bypass them completely.


Working with institutions is only going to lead to more of the same.

Bypass governments? Near 100% habitable land on earth is already government controlled. At the most you can choose which one do you prefer to live under...
The one that only takes 20% of my corns at most. So not one of the western ones.
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February 21, 2020, 01:20:53 AM

It is a clear demonstration of an inflationary economy of fiat money against Bitcoin.

Quote
In this table we see how much money would a person have now in $ if he/she would, in a given year (first column) buy BTC for $2 (average cup of coffee?) every day.

For example: if in 2012 somebody would buy every day BTC for $2 he/she could now sell it for ~$1M.

#bitcoin #btc


Source: https://twitter.com/digitalikNet/status/1230519543224832000

another columb actual dollars spend would be good here
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February 21, 2020, 01:22:46 AM
Merited by d_eddie (1)


Not at all. I am very pissed atm. But I knew that had to happen. I just thought crypto was still minor enough to not warrant that kind of new rules. I guess adoption is already reaching levels where they think they need to use the "tools" at their disposal.

Governments would never let everyone go and switch to a different kind of asset they can't control in some way. Making kind of "ilegal" to have "hidden assets" (unreported to them) they secure they can control the flow (and taxable events) of those.

Also, this is what happens when a radical left wing alliance takes over the government as it has happened in Spain: The horror.

Fucking communists.

That is why we need the infrastructure in place to bypass them completely.


Working with institutions is only going to lead to more of the same.

Bypass governments? Near 100% habitable land on earth is already government controlled. At the most you can choose which one do you prefer to live under...
The one that only takes 20% of my corns at most. So not one of the western ones.

Most western countries "only" take "around" 20%. Some even less.

Tbh I am more ok with paying that tax when I do sell than with the obligation to report my "hodlings". That REALLY pisses me off. I don't want them to fucking know how much (or how little) BTC I do have! What's next? Be forced to let them "custody" it for me so that I don't have a boating accident in the future?
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February 21, 2020, 01:27:21 AM

I think BTC is going to rise.

The legendary rpietila.



fixed that for you

The once legendary rpietila.

very sad but fuck off. OK thanks you got me into monero, then you robbed a lot of people.

Why arent people like this banned.

Big shame, the fallen hero from my view.

Fuck off then fuck off again.

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February 21, 2020, 01:30:36 AM

Ibian
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February 21, 2020, 01:35:26 AM


Not at all. I am very pissed atm. But I knew that had to happen. I just thought crypto was still minor enough to not warrant that kind of new rules. I guess adoption is already reaching levels where they think they need to use the "tools" at their disposal.

Governments would never let everyone go and switch to a different kind of asset they can't control in some way. Making kind of "ilegal" to have "hidden assets" (unreported to them) they secure they can control the flow (and taxable events) of those.

Also, this is what happens when a radical left wing alliance takes over the government as it has happened in Spain: The horror.

Fucking communists.

That is why we need the infrastructure in place to bypass them completely.


Working with institutions is only going to lead to more of the same.

Bypass governments? Near 100% habitable land on earth is already government controlled. At the most you can choose which one do you prefer to live under...
The one that only takes 20% of my corns at most. So not one of the western ones.

Most western countries "only" take "around" 20%. Some even less.

Tbh I am more ok with paying that tax when I do sell than with the obligation to report my "hodlings". That REALLY pisses me off. I don't want them to fucking know how much (or how little) BTC I do have! What's next? Be forced to let them "custody" it for me so that I don't have a boating accident in the future?
No they don't. In my country we are taxed at over 80%. No tax on bitcoin yet, but there will be, and I expect it to be something like 60%.
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February 21, 2020, 01:36:51 AM

I know somebody who has used Kraken to cash out large sums & he’s had no problems.



We should get ready for the glorious cashout day which is coming soonish so any hints on where to do it safe, fast and efficient are welcome! Exchanges? OTC? Anything else?  Cool

OTC is supposed to be the best, speak to gentlemand.

off the chart?

over the counter?

something else?
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February 21, 2020, 01:37:01 AM


Comic was good for a long time. Then it turned into a feminist rant in picture form.
bitserve
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February 21, 2020, 01:37:44 AM

Da fuck! What country are you in?!?? Never saw capital gains taxed so fucking high. That percentage is ridiculous even for regular salary income FFS!

Also, if you are completely sure you are not taxed right now (which I doubt) then sell it all and rebuy so that you "upgrade" your cost price before that is considered a taxable event.
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February 21, 2020, 01:39:59 AM

Da fuck! What country are you in?!?? Never saw capital gains taxed so fucking high. That percentage is ridiculous even for regular salary income FFS!
50% income tax, give or take depending. 25% sales tax. Hidden taxes on everytyhing, not sure how much but not less than 50%. In total, 80-90% taxation.

Which is why there is no fucking way I will get off with ONLY 20% when they get around to bitcoin. States always want More.

Denmark, by the way.
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February 21, 2020, 01:42:29 AM
Last edit: February 21, 2020, 02:15:11 AM by bitserve
Merited by vapourminer (1), gentlemand (1)

Da fuck! What country are you in?!?? Never saw capital gains taxed so fucking high. That percentage is ridiculous even for regular salary income FFS!
50% income tax, give or take depending. 25% sales tax. Hidden taxes on everytyhing, not sure how much but not less than 50%. In total, 80-90% taxation.

Which is why there is no fucking way I will get off with ONLY 20% when they get around to bitcoin. States always want More.

Denmark, by the way.

Jesus, I have just checked and it is true Denmark has outrageous taxes! Not as much as you say, regarding CAPITAL GAINS (which is what you should be taxed for your Bitcoin profits), but still ridiculously high. Sorry is all I can say about that situation.

Quote
Denmark has one of the highest tax rates in the world, which is often mentioned as one of the biggest objections against the Danish welfare model. The average annual income in Denmark is about 39,000 euros (nearly $43,000) and as such, the average Dane pays a total amount of 45 percent in income taxes.

Quote
Personal Income Tax Rate in Denmark averaged 60.45 percent from 1995 until 2018, reaching an all time high of 65.90 percent in 1997 and a record low of 55.40 percent in 2010.

Quote
Denmark. Share dividends and realized capital gains on shares are charged 27% to individuals of gains up to DKK 48,300 (2013-level, adjusted annually), and at 42% of gains above that. Carryforward of realized losses on shares is allowed.

Quote
Bitcoins are not a real currency
The National Tax Board has established that, in a taxation context, bitcoins cannot be equated with 'real' currencies such as the euro, dollars and kroner. Therefore, bitcoins are not covered by the rules in the Danish Capital Gains Tax Act.

Quote
Tax on profits, deduction of losses
If you are among those who jumped on the bandwagon and invested in one or more bitcoins, you must report any profits as personal income. Similarly, you can deduct a loss as a deduction. In round numbers, the tax on profits is approx. 53%, while the losses are deducted by about 28%, as the deduction that can be achieved is only a tax allowance.

If you invested in bitcoins as a company, profits and losses are taxed as regular corporate income.

If you have profits or losses from the cryptocurrency, we recommend that you report the amount under comments in your tax return, until a legal practice has been announced by the Danish Customs and Tax Administration (SKAT).

If you are unsure, it is important to find out what to do with your profit or loss. Among other things, you can find out by requesting a binding answer from SKAT, which costs DKK 400. Here, you can have your legal position clarified.

Absolutely ridiculous. Now I understand why you seem to be so pissed most of the time  Roll Eyes
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February 21, 2020, 02:01:59 AM


Not at all. I am very pissed atm. But I knew that had to happen. I just thought crypto was still minor enough to not warrant that kind of new rules. I guess adoption is already reaching levels where they think they need to use the "tools" at their disposal.

Governments would never let everyone go and switch to a different kind of asset they can't control in some way. Making kind of "ilegal" to have "hidden assets" (unreported to them) they secure they can control the flow (and taxable events) of those.

Also, this is what happens when a radical left wing alliance takes over the government as it has happened in Spain: The horror.

Fucking communists.

That is why we need the infrastructure in place to bypass them completely.


Working with institutions is only going to lead to more of the same.

Bypass governments? Near 100% habitable land on earth is already government controlled. At the most you can choose which one do you prefer to live under...

You believe humanity will be controlled by governments for all time until we are extinct?
bitserve
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February 21, 2020, 02:04:24 AM


Not at all. I am very pissed atm. But I knew that had to happen. I just thought crypto was still minor enough to not warrant that kind of new rules. I guess adoption is already reaching levels where they think they need to use the "tools" at their disposal.

Governments would never let everyone go and switch to a different kind of asset they can't control in some way. Making kind of "ilegal" to have "hidden assets" (unreported to them) they secure they can control the flow (and taxable events) of those.

Also, this is what happens when a radical left wing alliance takes over the government as it has happened in Spain: The horror.

Fucking communists.

That is why we need the infrastructure in place to bypass them completely.


Working with institutions is only going to lead to more of the same.

Bypass governments? Near 100% habitable land on earth is already government controlled. At the most you can choose which one do you prefer to live under...

You believe humanity will be controlled by governments for all time until we are extinct?

There will always be some form (even if informal) of governments.

And I am sure there will be basically the same type of governments before I die. So nothing will change for ME (or you) for all practical purposes.
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February 21, 2020, 02:06:37 AM

There will always be some form (even if informal) of governments.

And I am sure there will be basically the same type of governments before I die. So nothing will change for ME (or you) for all practical purposes.

Nothing will change until the majority believes it can change, guess who's winning?
bitserve
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February 21, 2020, 02:07:57 AM

There will always be some form (even if informal) of governments.

And I am sure there will be basically the same type of governments before I die. So nothing will change for ME (or you) for all practical purposes.

Nothing will change until the majority believes it can change, guess who's winning?

Then that majority will be the "new" government.
Ibian
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February 21, 2020, 02:16:53 AM

There will always be some form (even if informal) of governments.

And I am sure there will be basically the same type of governments before I die. So nothing will change for ME (or you) for all practical purposes.

Nothing will change until the majority believes it can change, guess who's winning?
The majority. The majority are idiots. This is not just me being pissed all the time, it's the pareto principle. As the number of people increase, the number of dipshits increase exponentially and the number of normal people increase linearly. And there has never been more people than now.
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February 21, 2020, 04:05:30 AM

Da fuck! What country are you in?!?? Never saw capital gains taxed so fucking high. That percentage is ridiculous even for regular salary income FFS!
50% income tax, give or take depending. 25% sales tax. Hidden taxes on everytyhing, not sure how much but not less than 50%. In total, 80-90% taxation.

Which is why there is no fucking way I will get off with ONLY 20% when they get around to bitcoin. States always want More.

Denmark, by the way.

From what I understand, most European countries have taxation based on country of residency. So, you should be able to get residency in 0% country, like Malaysia or Panama, stay there for a year, dump your bitcoins, then move back. All 100% legal and tax free.
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