DNotes 2.0 - Staking, CRISP Interest, DNotes Pay

[sl-avik]

Good day,
I read many info about China and btc fall in this thread, but what about concrete date and Dnotes2?
if such interesting news are ready for sharing, I think low volume and low support on polo say about need new news

[TeeGee]

This leaves two suggested scenarios, both of which raise further questions:

JPMorgan are purchasing Bitcoin for themselves at discount prices thanks to Dimon's involvement in manipulating prices (but anybody who did so at JPMorgan would be fired for being "stupid" right?).

Or

JPMorgan are buying Bitcoin for their clients, which after Dimon suggesting Bitcoin was a fraud, means they are ignoring any sense of fiduciary care. Are JP Morgan allowing their clients to purchase securities that they believe are fraud? -- remember that banks in the USA regularly close customer accounts  just on the 'reputation risk' clients purchasing cryptocurrencies presents.

**Side note: earlier this week Jamie Dimon spoke at the Barclays financial conference, where he stated that JPMorgan's trading revenue was expected to reduce by 20% year on year (in a market of 'all time highs'?).

Either way, the industry moves on, and just focuses on what 'we can do'. The traders will always focus on making a buck from the 'real value' created by the work of pioneers and innovators. We must focus on being the latter. Trading will always be a major part of cryptocurrencies, but the industry will mature as it continues to grow.

[DNotes]

Good day,
I read many info about China and btc fall in this thread, but what about concrete date and Dnotes2?
if such interesting news are ready for sharing, I think low volume and low support on polo say about need new news

Hi sl-avik, we plan to update the community next week.

[sl-avik]

Good day,
I read many info about China and btc fall in this thread, but what about concrete date and Dnotes2?
if such interesting news are ready for sharing, I think low volume and low support on polo say about need new news

Hi sl-avik, we plan to update the community next week.

Ok, I will waiting it

I see you have great community and support, but for russian users we have not any resources
please share such links if it exist
I think it will very usefull for Dnotes share info and  make group in vk social also

[DNotes]

Good day,
I read many info about China and btc fall in this thread, but what about concrete date and Dnotes2?
if such interesting news are ready for sharing, I think low volume and low support on polo say about need new news

Hi sl-avik, we plan to update the community next week.

Ok, I will waiting it

I see you have great community and support, but for russian users we have not any resources
please share such links if it exist
I think it will very usefull for Dnotes share info and  make group in vk social also

Yes, you are correct, we do not have a regular resource for updates for the Russian users. It would be helpful to understand which platforms would be suitable. Would vk be the most viable social media platform?

[sl-avik]

Good day,
I read many info about China and btc fall in this thread, but what about concrete date and Dnotes2?
if such interesting news are ready for sharing, I think low volume and low support on polo say about need new news

Hi sl-avik, we plan to update the community next week.

Ok, I will waiting it

I see you have great community and support, but for russian users we have not any resources
please share such links if it exist
I think it will very usefull for Dnotes share info and  make group in vk social also

Yes, you are correct, we do not have a regular resource for updates for the Russian users. It would be helpful to understand which platforms would be suitable. Would vk be the most viable social media platform?

yes, Vk is very popular among students and  for 15-40 years old people, fb and twitter is not very popular for russian speakers auditory

[erv]

wallet is so slow, or im doing something wrong?

[DNotes]

wallet is so slow, or im doing something wrong?

Hi erv, it takes a while to download and update the blockchain. How many connections do you have?

[erv]

wallet is so slow, or im doing something wrong?

Hi erv, it takes a while to download and update the blockchain. How many connections do you have?

well, 4 :s

Edit: 6

[DNotes]

wallet is so slow, or im doing something wrong?

Hi erv, it takes a while to download and update the blockchain. How many connections do you have?

well, 4 :s

Edit: 6

That should be enough. Will take a while to update initially.

[TimMarsh]

This is a sad day for our industry. There will be significant "weeding out" with many suffering significant losses. This is a major correction and will take time to digest.

It is most prudent to take a step back and let the dusk settle. No one can stop the industry from moving forward. My greatest fear is that it could lead to over-regulation that will stiflel innovations.

China's Bitcoin Exchanges Receive Shutdown Orders and Closure Timeline
Coindesk:
Sep 15, 2017 at 11:28 UTC by Tian Chuan & Rachel-Rose O'Leary
https://www.coindesk.com/document-lists-closure-steps-for-chinas-bitcoin-exchanges/
[...]
6. Exchanges shall save all user trading and holding data, and send it to local authorities immediately in DVDs.

I found it interesting that China wanted the exchanges to forward them information on DVDs. And I wondered if the Chinese exchanges were also expected to supply all of the customer's personal details. It has always surprised me that people hoped their transactions on the blockchain would remain anonymous despite the fact that all transactions are permanently public. A big spill of user data could be very informative. And it could also be used to write better algorithms for determining the probability of assigning particular transactions to people.

For example, it could show how strong correlations are between trading times, amounts, and recipient behaviour are with individuals. It could then group patterns into profiles and use these to detect with higher accuracy which addresses are owned by the same person. 

As for the impact and correction caused by the news, I'm surprised it was so small and short-lived. From it's high point this week on September 12, at US$4,344 it steadily dropped until the announcements and news on the 15th. The morning of the 15th opened at 74% of the week's high point. Then during the day of the news and media circus about this issue, it actually climbed to 83% of the high point value.
Figures extracted from: https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/

And if this shows you anything, I think it proves beyond reasonable doubt that bitcoin is not a bubble. The reason we use a bubble metaphor for artificially inflated investments isn't due to the inflation. It is due to the fact that when a bubble starts to pop, there is no recovery. Everybody playing the game rushes to be the faster rather than greater fool. But we didn't see a significant collapse that a bubble would predict. And then we saw a strong and fast recovery. So thanks China, my bubble concerns are gone. And I believe we might have seen a stronger recovery if Chinese money had felt safer to flow back into the system.

[TeeGee]

This is a sad day for our industry. There will be significant "weeding out" with many suffering significant losses. This is a major correction and will take time to digest.

It is most prudent to take a step back and let the dusk settle. No one can stop the industry from moving forward. My greatest fear is that it could lead to over-regulation that will stiflel innovations.

China's Bitcoin Exchanges Receive Shutdown Orders and Closure Timeline
Coindesk:
Sep 15, 2017 at 11:28 UTC by Tian Chuan & Rachel-Rose O'Leary
https://www.coindesk.com/document-lists-closure-steps-for-chinas-bitcoin-exchanges/
[...]
6. Exchanges shall save all user trading and holding data, and send it to local authorities immediately in DVDs.

I found it interesting that China wanted the exchanges to forward them information on DVDs. And I wondered if the Chinese exchanges were also expected to supply all of the customer's personal details. It has always surprised me that people hoped their transactions on the blockchain would remain anonymous despite the fact that all transactions are permanently public. A big spill of user data could be very informative. And it could also be used to write better algorithms for determining the probability of assigning particular transactions to people.

For example, it could show how strong correlations are between trading times, amounts, and recipient behaviour are with individuals. It could then group patterns into profiles and use these to detect with higher accuracy which addresses are owned by the same person. 

As for the impact and correction caused by the news, I'm surprised it was so small and short-lived. From it's high point this week on September 12, at US$4,344 it steadily dropped until the announcements and news on the 15th. The morning of the 15th opened at 74% of the week's high point. Then during the day of the news and media circus about this issue, it actually climbed to 83% of the high point value.
Figures extracted from: https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/

And if this shows you anything, I think it proves beyond reasonable doubt that bitcoin is not a bubble. The reason we use a bubble metaphor for artificially inflated investments isn't due to the inflation. It is due to the fact that when a bubble starts to pop, there is no recovery. Everybody playing the game rushes to be the faster rather than greater fool. But we didn't see a significant collapse that a bubble would predict. And then we saw a strong and fast recovery. So thanks China, my bubble concerns are gone. And I believe we might have seen a stronger recovery if Chinese money had felt safer to flow back into the system.

I agree that the industry as a whole is showing remarkable strength. Weak hands began to sell, and many in China heavily encouraged to do so, but a lot of people seem to have looked at this as a buying opportunity. The Chinese government have had somewhat of a tumultuous relationship with digital currencies -- frequently changing their public stance on what industry players can do there. For now, the world crypto economy can continue to grow without concern for what effects the decisions by Chinese officials may have on the world market.

[Dyna]

This is a sad day for our industry. There will be significant "weeding out" with many suffering significant losses. This is a major correction and will take time to digest.

It is most prudent to take a step back and let the dusk settle. No one can stop the industry from moving forward. My greatest fear is that it could lead to over-regulation that will stiflel innovations.

China's Bitcoin Exchanges Receive Shutdown Orders and Closure Timeline
Coindesk:
Sep 15, 2017 at 11:28 UTC by Tian Chuan & Rachel-Rose O'Leary
https://www.coindesk.com/document-lists-closure-steps-for-chinas-bitcoin-exchanges/
[...]
6. Exchanges shall save all user trading and holding data, and send it to local authorities immediately in DVDs.

I found it interesting that China wanted the exchanges to forward them information on DVDs. And I wondered if the Chinese exchanges were also expected to supply all of the customer's personal details. It has always surprised me that people hoped their transactions on the blockchain would remain anonymous despite the fact that all transactions are permanently public. A big spill of user data could be very informative. And it could also be used to write better algorithms for determining the probability of assigning particular transactions to people.

For example, it could show how strong correlations are between trading times, amounts, and recipient behaviour are with individuals. It could then group patterns into profiles and use these to detect with higher accuracy which addresses are owned by the same person. 

As for the impact and correction caused by the news, I'm surprised it was so small and short-lived. From it's high point this week on September 12, at US$4,344 it steadily dropped until the announcements and news on the 15th. The morning of the 15th opened at 74% of the week's high point. Then during the day of the news and media circus about this issue, it actually climbed to 83% of the high point value.
Figures extracted from: https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/

And if this shows you anything, I think it proves beyond reasonable doubt that bitcoin is not a bubble. The reason we use a bubble metaphor for artificially inflated investments isn't due to the inflation. It is due to the fact that when a bubble starts to pop, there is no recovery. Everybody playing the game rushes to be the faster rather than greater fool. But we didn't see a significant collapse that a bubble would predict. And then we saw a strong and fast recovery. So thanks China, my bubble concerns are gone. And I believe we might have seen a stronger recovery if Chinese money had felt safer to flow back into the system.

I agree that the industry as a whole is showing remarkable strength. Weak hands began to sell, and many in China heavily encouraged to do so, but a lot of people seem to have looked at this as a buying opportunity. The Chinese government have had somewhat of a tumultuous relationship with digital currencies -- frequently changing their public stance on what industry players can do there. For now, the world crypto economy can continue to grow without concern for what effects the decisions by Chinese officials may have on the world market.

The quick recovery surprised me. I am also surprised that there are still many ICOs going on. In the simplest term - there is a lot of greed and fear which can cut both ways.

Our industry will remain strong with rapid growth, and Bitcoin is not going away. However, I am concerned that this will lead to more regulations in the name of "consumer protection" and a tougher crack-down on ICOs. 

[steven.wasserman]

Thank you very much to Steve and the team at Vments for working with me on the interview.

Vments have a lot of fascinating content and product offerings listed at their website that have a high degree of potential to facilitate collaboration between Vments and DNotes in the future -- especially given our plan to integrate the frictionless means to convert DNotes or other crypto to merchant POS spending via fiat conversion. I could personally see the Vments ecosystem benefiting the DNotes multi-currency card and banking network in the following way, as I will outline one potential use case below.

Spending of cryptocurrency using the DNotes multi-currency *debit* card could trigger the following process:

Any crypto converted into DNotes via DNotes' decentralized exchange >
DNotes are converted into fiat through our regulated exchange (fiat gateway) >
USD transfer from the fiat gateway exchange into the DNotes bank >
Forwarding of funds from DNotes bank to partner bank accounts (nostro accounts)> (particular benefit here)
Forwarding of payment to local merchant that multi-currency card is used to make purchase of goods or services.

The process above would be designed to be seamless and near-instant, and Vments work in the area of inter-bank payment flows could massively benefit some of these processes - namely, inter-bank money flows in different countries. This could allow debits to be made from checking accounts with instant movement of funds across the entire process, rather than current 'credits' being made in lieu of physical money transfer as is the case with credit card systems today. This would allow users to avoid a lot of the fees common with credit card systems. Currently some projects allow for integration with the visa network to spend cryptocurrencies, the above model is different in that it brings the 'authentication', 'liquidity provider' / 'exchange' and 'banking' network under the same roof as the operators of the currency & card issuer, which means they can be more tightly integrated with more cost effective revenue models.  

This is just an example of how such collaboration could work. There are many others.

Tim, that was an excellent interview. Steve has very high regards for DNotes and has been following us for quite a while. I have spoken to him and very impressed with what Vments has to offer. Although some collaborations in the future is very possible, we need to be mindful that anything to do with banking these days will that a long time to jump through a lot of legal hurdles. Especially because of the current market conditions, we will that our time to seek out the best opportunities and do things right.

I agree with Alan that this is definitely one to watch, while taking careful, sure steps as the ground beneath cryptocurrencies becomes more solid and predictable.

And I'm really glad that DNotes has such talent, including TeeGee to make sense of all of those buzz words used in the article. To me, the meanings of a lot of the terms were unfamiliar, but not entirely vague.

But what really caught my attention was, "At the core of the technology is Virtual Fiat Money (VFM) which flows through account types CommunityVcash and CommunityVcredit established by participating financial institutions in their local base currency."

I assumed that both of these were a permissioned blockchain cryptocurrency that is pegged to a particular currency. I then imagined it was used to symbolise a transfer of value in some way, but I really would like to know more about it. Like does this virtual fiat currency have a tag in the transaction saying which currency it is pegged to and the peg value? Do they actually buy the virtual fiat from Vments at the pegged currency rate and the Vments sell this back to the receiver as a different fiat currency according to the predetermined pegged value?

So much to think about, so I hope there is a follow up article with more concrete details once that information is ready for public disclosure. And again I wonder if this DNotes thread might be the most broadly informative thread on bitcointalk.org.

Thanks, Tim. Vments platform is a private and permissioned blockchain functional ecosystem and network of financial institutions.

I sometime see the decentralized world and the centralized world as two extremely ends of the spectrum. Neither one is perfect but each has massive potential. A bridge that can negotiate the gap in a well balanced manner can reap great rewards. That is what DNotes Global, Inc. is destined to become. It will take time and many great strategic moves, collaborations, and partnership.

Vments can enable peer to peer settlement with a merchant or vendor using its VFM (virtual fiat money) using an account denominated in DNotes (or any cryptocurrency) where the card/account issuers settle with the customer in the cryptocurrency and the fiat currency of the transaction is similar to current credit/debit card trans for a foreign currency transaction. The card/account issuer would have to acquired VFM of the currency they need to send to the merchant/vendor, but then collect in crypto from the card/account holder. The merchant/vendor can then redeem the VFM to their bank account, reuse it for other transactions, or exchange it for some other fiat or crypto currency. If the merchant/vendor is willing to accept the crypto, then the conversion to VFM is not necessary and they can either reuse the crypto or exchange it for some other fiat or crypto currency. The VFM would be minted by the bank that the card/account issuer uses for the settlement, including where the bank could be the card/account issuer and handle all of the applicable compliance that our software would help comply with.

[DNotes]

Thank you very much to Steve and the team at Vments for working with me on the interview.

Vments have a lot of fascinating content and product offerings listed at their website that have a high degree of potential to facilitate collaboration between Vments and DNotes in the future -- especially given our plan to integrate the frictionless means to convert DNotes or other crypto to merchant POS spending via fiat conversion. I could personally see the Vments ecosystem benefiting the DNotes multi-currency card and banking network in the following way, as I will outline one potential use case below.

Spending of cryptocurrency using the DNotes multi-currency *debit* card could trigger the following process:

Any crypto converted into DNotes via DNotes' decentralized exchange >
DNotes are converted into fiat through our regulated exchange (fiat gateway) >
USD transfer from the fiat gateway exchange into the DNotes bank >
Forwarding of funds from DNotes bank to partner bank accounts (nostro accounts)> (particular benefit here)
Forwarding of payment to local merchant that multi-currency card is used to make purchase of goods or services.

The process above would be designed to be seamless and near-instant, and Vments work in the area of inter-bank payment flows could massively benefit some of these processes - namely, inter-bank money flows in different countries. This could allow debits to be made from checking accounts with instant movement of funds across the entire process, rather than current 'credits' being made in lieu of physical money transfer as is the case with credit card systems today. This would allow users to avoid a lot of the fees common with credit card systems. Currently some projects allow for integration with the visa network to spend cryptocurrencies, the above model is different in that it brings the 'authentication', 'liquidity provider' / 'exchange' and 'banking' network under the same roof as the operators of the currency & card issuer, which means they can be more tightly integrated with more cost effective revenue models.  

This is just an example of how such collaboration could work. There are many others.

Tim, that was an excellent interview. Steve has very high regards for DNotes and has been following us for quite a while. I have spoken to him and very impressed with what Vments has to offer. Although some collaborations in the future is very possible, we need to be mindful that anything to do with banking these days will that a long time to jump through a lot of legal hurdles. Especially because of the current market conditions, we will that our time to seek out the best opportunities and do things right.

I agree with Alan that this is definitely one to watch, while taking careful, sure steps as the ground beneath cryptocurrencies becomes more solid and predictable.

And I'm really glad that DNotes has such talent, including TeeGee to make sense of all of those buzz words used in the article. To me, the meanings of a lot of the terms were unfamiliar, but not entirely vague.

But what really caught my attention was, "At the core of the technology is Virtual Fiat Money (VFM) which flows through account types CommunityVcash and CommunityVcredit established by participating financial institutions in their local base currency."

I assumed that both of these were a permissioned blockchain cryptocurrency that is pegged to a particular currency. I then imagined it was used to symbolise a transfer of value in some way, but I really would like to know more about it. Like does this virtual fiat currency have a tag in the transaction saying which currency it is pegged to and the peg value? Do they actually buy the virtual fiat from Vments at the pegged currency rate and the Vments sell this back to the receiver as a different fiat currency according to the predetermined pegged value?

So much to think about, so I hope there is a follow up article with more concrete details once that information is ready for public disclosure. And again I wonder if this DNotes thread might be the most broadly informative thread on bitcointalk.org.

Thanks, Tim. Vments platform is a private and permissioned blockchain functional ecosystem and network of financial institutions.

I sometime see the decentralized world and the centralized world as two extremely ends of the spectrum. Neither one is perfect but each has massive potential. A bridge that can negotiate the gap in a well balanced manner can reap great rewards. That is what DNotes Global, Inc. is destined to become. It will take time and many great strategic moves, collaborations, and partnership.

Vments can enable peer to peer settlement with a merchant or vendor using its VFM (virtual fiat money) using an account denominated in DNotes (or any cryptocurrency) where the card/account issuers settle with the customer in the cryptocurrency and the fiat currency of the transaction is similar to current credit/debit card trans for a foreign currency transaction. The card/account issuer would have to acquired VFM of the currency they need to send to the merchant/vendor, but then collect in crypto from the card/account holder. The merchant/vendor can then redeem the VFM to their bank account, reuse it for other transactions, or exchange it for some other fiat or crypto currency. If the merchant/vendor is willing to accept the crypto, then the conversion to VFM is not necessary and they can either reuse the crypto or exchange it for some other fiat or crypto currency. The VFM would be minted by the bank that the card/account issuer uses for the settlement, including where the bank could be the card/account issuer and handle all of the applicable compliance that our software would help comply with.

Steven, thanks for joining joining us on the DNotes forum. We are looking forward to explore how our platforms can work together and strategic partnerships in the future.

[DCEBrief]

Columbus GA Medical Clinic Now Accepting Bitcoin

https://dcebrief.com/columbus-ga-medical-clinic-now-accepting-bitcoin/

[Chase]

The problem with cryptocurrency is that it is far too transparent to act as a global currency... lol.


Canada flagged as hidden $14 trillion credit bubble stokes global crisis fears

The world's top financial watchdog has uncovered $14 trillion of global dollar debt hidden in bank report ‘footnotes’

http://business.financialpost.com/news/economy/credit-bubble

[TeeGee]

The problem with cryptocurrency is that it is far too transparent to act as a global currency... lol.


Canada flagged as hidden $14 trillion credit bubble stokes global crisis fears

The world's top financial watchdog has uncovered $14 trillion of global dollar debt hidden in bank report ‘footnotes’

http://business.financialpost.com/news/economy/credit-bubble

Sounds like enron accounting to me... 

The patterns of world economic boom and busts have been one of my primary areas of study and interest for a decade. My criticism of the stability risks that result from money creation combined with fractional reserve lending are what led me to my involvement in cryptocurrency. It is my conviction that if we do things the right way, and get all of our ducks in a row, that we will be in a position to help by providing a trusted alternative in DNotes' ecosystem -- a faster, more secure, and convenient means of conducting payments and international trade at reduced cost. 

Chinese banks, according to Kyle Bass, have more than $40 trillion in assets (size of credit system) held against just $2 trillion in equity (what the banks actually own as security for the 40 trillion loans), of which perhaps just $1 trillion is liquid reserves (more mobile money).

This is likely one of the major reasons that China have been trying to crack down on capital outflows that they think could destabilize the country (like Bitcoin) by wealthy Chinese, who are concerned about depreciation of their wealth by currency devaluation. People generally don't take action when the boat is sailing smoothly.

[abused wens]

And proportional distribution absolutely fair for all.

[TimMarsh]

The problem with cryptocurrency is that it is far too transparent to act as a global currency... lol.


Canada flagged as hidden $14 trillion credit bubble stokes global crisis fears

The world's top financial watchdog has uncovered $14 trillion of global dollar debt hidden in bank report ‘footnotes’

http://business.financialpost.com/news/economy/credit-bubble

Sounds like enron accounting to me... 

The patterns of world economic boom and busts have been one of my primary areas of study and interest for a decade. My criticism of the stability risks that result from money creation combined with fractional reserve lending are what led me to my involvement in cryptocurrency. It is my conviction that if we do things the right way, and get all of our ducks in a row, that we will be in a position to help by providing a trusted alternative in DNotes' ecosystem -- a faster, more secure, and convenient means of conducting payments and international trade at reduced cost. 

Chinese banks, according to Kyle Bass, have more than $40 trillion in assets (size of credit system) held against just $2 trillion in equity (what the banks actually own as security for the 40 trillion loans), of which perhaps just $1 trillion is liquid reserves (more mobile money).

This is likely one of the major reasons that China have been trying to crack down on capital outflows that they think could destabilize the country (like Bitcoin) by wealthy Chinese, who are concerned about depreciation of their wealth by currency devaluation. People generally don't take action when the boat is sailing smoothly.

Are you saying TeeGee, that wealthy Chinese might currently consider Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies a safe harbour or logical partial hedge against possible devaluation of the Chinese Yuan? I find it really curious that Bitcoin responds to financial markets so independently of fiat currency, and behaves more like precious metals or real estate than stocks or bonds.

I understand China being concerned that savings may be going elsewhere instead of into their banks if they're carrying $40 trillion in debt. But with bitcoin having a market cap of $66 billion. Even if Chinese investors diverted their money into bitcoin at its current price, it would be less than 0.16% of their carried debt. A literal one and a half millilitre drop in a litre bucket.