(Closed) Butter Bot!: Premier Bitstamp, and BTC-E EMA Trading Platform (Closed)

[seanrarey]

Lost 10%+ of my funds in one day. uninstall thanks for the $500 loss.

Using recommended settings.

Butterbot buy btc at price x. btc prices drops $180, Butterbot sells at $150+ loss per BTC. Butterbot buys back at high price just below my initial purchase price. 10%+ loss. Better just leaving your BTC as BTC.

Closer to 20% loss.

Their was no need to test the "recommed" settings read my postings in this thread where i pointed that out already that btc-usd trading with ema is a slow sell off of bitcoins and as bitcoins keep increasing it shows usd profit but only because btc price get higher not from good trades.

But seems the developer isn't reading frequently here.

You keep trying to convince people of this, but it is actually not true.  Whereas any trading involves a mix of loss and gain, if I were farther ahead in the buy-n-hold portion of my investment, I would not be trading.  In fact, the opposite is true, so I continue to maintain 2/3 of my investment in the trade accounts.

[PuertoLibre]

Lost 10%+ of my funds in one day. uninstall thanks for the $500 loss.

Using recommended settings.

Butterbot buy btc at price x. btc prices drops $180, Butterbot sells at $150+ loss per BTC. Butterbot buys back at high price just below my initial purchase price. 10%+ loss. Better just leaving your BTC as BTC.

Closer to 20% loss.

It's probably because you are using a long period of time for updates.

[seanrarey]

Lost 10%+ of my funds in one day. uninstall thanks for the $500 loss.

Using recommended settings.

Butterbot buy btc at price x. btc prices drops $180, Butterbot sells at $150+ loss per BTC. Butterbot buys back at high price just below my initial purchase price. 10%+ loss. Better just leaving your BTC as BTC.

Closer to 20% loss.

What we are seeing is extreme movement in the market.

Anybody trading in the market should understand the market, understand EMA and how it works, and make informed decisions on strategy.

Butter is the best bot I have found to assist me in my trading.  However, "magic" does not exist in trading, and one still needs to be informed and responsible for their trading.  Depending on what your research leads you to believe (nothing but up? Bubble?), you may or may not want to pause the bot in certain market conditions.

In the end, these are traders decisions, and as you become better at it you will make the correct calls more often.

This is a fundamental problem that needs to be addressed. I use another bot that is far superior and gives you the options. This has very little to control your losses in a high volume market.

There are countless trading strategies, and many have proven successful over the years.  Anybody that claims to have "the one" or the "only" is conning you.  I have purchased/tried every bot I have ever been able to find, and enjoy testing them.

This bot fits best (so far) with the strategies I use.  It may not for yours.  I would of course recommend using the bot that best fits your strategies.

I do find one thing strange.  I am not a member of and do not post in forums for the bots that I found to be less useful.  Why would I?  I spend my time in the forums and areas that have brought me the most profit.  There are those that have been posting recently that could be classified as "detractors".  I mostly ignore them, because I am not sure of their purpose.  They say things that are either uninformed or intentionally misleading, and I am not sure why.  I suppose we can all draw our own conclusions.

[Casimir1904]

Lost 10%+ of my funds in one day. uninstall thanks for the $500 loss.

Using recommended settings.

Butterbot buy btc at price x. btc prices drops $180, Butterbot sells at $150+ loss per BTC. Butterbot buys back at high price just below my initial purchase price. 10%+ loss. Better just leaving your BTC as BTC.

Closer to 20% loss.

Their was no need to test the "recommed" settings read my postings in this thread where i pointed that out already that btc-usd trading with ema is a slow sell off of bitcoins and as bitcoins keep increasing it shows usd profit but only because btc price get higher not from good trades.

But seems the developer isn't reading frequently here.

You keep trying to convince people of this, but it is actually not true.  Whereas any trading involves a mix of loss and gain, if I were farther ahead in the buy-n-hold portion of my investment, I would not be trading.  In fact, the opposite is true, so I continue to maintain 2/3 of my investment in the trade accounts.

i posted also settings where btc volume was growing and so also usd profit was much higher as most will reach with their settings, don't know if you read that also?

My goal is just to improve the botting in general, but most don't understand it, for some its also ok to just make more usd and lower their btc volume for them who see bitcoin as risky and don't want to held larger amounts in bitcoins this might be a good strategy but even them would make more with the settings i posted.
And when you adjust your settings to the actual trend you can even make more, but also their the goal should be to automate this in bots and that should be possible...

So instead of saying not true or you don't agree you should run the test your self.. run it with your settings over the past 2y and with my settings from here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=197175.msg3673780#msg3673780

it was with 2 min time offset with 0 min it's even more, and when you adjust your settings in such periods like we had from april to october 2013 you would even make more...

Still its to simple to say true or not true, i'm pretty sure that ema would perform better in this case with usd-btc chart.
If btc was on a longer downtrend btc-usd would perfom better again.

Could be automated with more settings like watching market for days and see if over x days their is a down or uptrend and then automaticly adjust the setting.

I think all users posting here have the same goal = making profit, some only count usd profit others count only btc profit...

[NginUS]

I prefer to measure the bot's success based on the amount of BTC it yields, since that's what I prefer to have right now. Being that it appreciates so much.

I wish backtesting would account for BTC levels, too.

[Stingery64]

i find the bot algorithm is a bit dumb and can be much more improved, the focus should be into get bitcoins, not FIAT, we must asume the bitcoin price will always go up in the long term

so, in order this is achieved, its always the same idea: "sell high, buy low" and not just "follow trends", as follow trends must be the just an indicator, and this bot lacks a simple diversification trading engine.

so, in my opinion this could improve the profit a lot and does not look very difficult to encode.

there must be an option called " % market price drop "
so you can put there for example: "10%"

and when EMA lines configuration trigger a sell at lets say at 1000$,  then the bot will buy again when one of the next events its achieved:

1º if 10% price drop (900$) is achieved then buy, don't be greedy waiting EMA lines to cross back because you might end up loosing bitcoins, we want sell high, buy low, we want bitcoins, not fiat.
2º if the first option is not achieved, then EMA lines buy configuration will trigger a new buy back to cut losses.

also can be improved further just buy putting a second "% drop"

1º - 10%
2º - 20%


this way, in the first non greddy event that the market price drops a 10% you buy with 90% of your money,
and if EMA lines are not crossing back, and price keep dropping then bot has a 10% of cash to buy back more bitcoins in case it drops further (20% in the example)

if it dont drop further, then EMA lines will cross back and that 10% of resting cash will be used to buy back at the current price and following the up trend, and waiting a new drop trend

the market price must be monitorized in real time, end EMA events in a period of time...

the question could be: "so what if price drops from 1000$ to 100$ ? you are loosing lot of money there...
yeah, but this happens when? 1 time in 10 years a 90% market price drop? any way,
you can put even more triggers like

1º trigger -  10% drop price achieved since the sell  - buy with quick with 80% of the cash
2º trigger -  20% drop price achieved since the sell  - buy with quick with 10% of the resting cash
3º trigger -  90% drop price achieved since the sell  - buy with quick with 10% of the resting cash...



this should not be very difficult to program for experienced coders, i am not that good at this, but the most difficult part checking ema lines
and so on, looks like its done, its just a fact of turn the bot more wise to get bitcoins and not fiat, to buy when the price already dropped enough since the sell, and not wait EMA lines to cross back as you loosed the oportunity.
EMA lines are good to cut off loses, and good to detect drop trends, but if there no inteligence to profit the drops...
just following EMA lines trend is not that good, and can end up loosing bitcoins quite sure (as i already show a few pages back)
specially when it buys and sells all of your money in each operation

This bot needs diversification!

Adding those options would result in a much more wise trading operation steps.
It also might be moved an extra step adding diversification rules on the sell and not just in the buy, like

1º trigger - before EMA lines are crossed, sell 50%
2º trigger - if EMA lines are crossed, sell the other 50%

or so, but at this point the buy events its much more importat in my opinion

[seanrarey]

i find the bot algorithm can be much more improved, the focus is into get bitcoins, not FIAT, we must asume the bitcoin pirce will always go up in the long term.

so

there must be an option called " % drop "
so you can put there for example: "10%"

and when EMA lines configuration trigger a sell,  then the bot will buy again when one of the next events its done:

1º if EMA lines crosses back then buy to cut losses.
2º if 10% price drop is achieved then sell all, don't be greedy waiting EMA linea crosses back because you might end up loosing bitcoins


also can be improved further just buy putting a second "% drop"

1º - 10%
2º - 20%


this way, in the first non greddy event that the market price drops a 10% you buy with 90% of your money
and if EMA lines are not crossing back, then you still have a 10% of cash to buy back more bitcoins in case it drops further.

if it dont drop further, then EMA lines will cross back and that 10% will be used to buy back at the current price waiting a new drop trend

the market price must be monitorized in real time, end EMA events in a period of time...

Let me know when your bot is ready for testing, I will buy it.

[tesslerc]

1º trigger -  10% drop price achieved since the sell  - buy with quick with 80% of the cash
2º trigger -  20% drop price achieved since the sell  - buy with quick with 10% of the resting cash
3º trigger -  90% drop price achieved since the sell  - buy with quick with 10% of the resting cash...



this should not be very difficult to program for experienced coders, i am not that good at this, but the most difficult part checking ema lines
and so on, looks like its done, its just a fact of turn the bot more wise to get bitcoins and not fiat,
just following EMA lines trend is not that good, and can end up loosing bitcoins quite sure (as i already show a few posts back)
specially when it buys and sells all of your money in each operation

This bot needs diversification!

Adding those options would result in a much more wise trading operation steps.
It also might be moved an extra step adding diversification rules on the sell and not just in the buy, like

1º trigger - before EMA lines are crossed, sell 50%
2º trigger - if EMA lines are crossed, sell the other 50%

or so

Question is how do you know when to sell?
Ofc if market relatively drops, then buy in (if you believe that btc will always go up).
But.. when do you sell?

Market just went up from 200 usd to 500 usd do you sell?

250% higher than before right? then it rose to 900 usd 5 minutes later.
You buy in now?
What promises that if you sold for 500 it will return to under 500 later and you won't lose all your $$

[Stingery64]

the bot would sell in the same way its doing it right now
checking EMA lines configuration and if they cross at the % configured then, you sell

you just sell if EMA lines show a possible drop trend,
you never sell if market is going up... if its going from 200 to 500 you must have bitcoins, as you dont know when it will stop rising,
you can just make money on the drops

it rises from 500 to 900 in 5 minutes? no, you dont sell... you just sell if ema lines crosses in a drop trend,
that means, short EMA line graph end up under the long EMA linea graph, thats a drop trend

if you sold at 500 means there was a drop trend, then if its suddenly change trend, EMA lines will cross over again and you buy to cut loses

[Stingery64]

the main problem following trend by EMA lines is that lot of times, you end up losing bitcoins due the fact EMA lines
have a "lag" showing the trend because they need strong change values to cross themself

so the single way you make monye here is when trend are long and with high value discrepancy,
you can't take advantage of sudden drop values, thats why i think the bot needs a better way to manage buy/sells when EMA indicator give an alert.

for example,  at 22 Trades,  in 2 months, the bot managed to "win" a 593%,
this "win" is just thanks to the fact bitcoin price rised a lot,
but at 22 negative trends there are 14 of them that return negative balance, so those negative trends were not profitable due the way
EMA lines work themself,

for example, day

19-11-2013 at 12:24- there was a sell at 600$ following a drop trend

the price hit around 450 or maybe less, thats a 25% price drop,


https://i.imgur.com/67UGTsp.png


and what did bot do? well... same that it did in those 13 oportunities, just wait until follow the trend, and from 414% profit, turned to 413%
i know its short lose, and the bot is not trying to squeeze all single drop oporunities due the fact there is no trading engine, just indicator follower

if the non greddy system explained in my last post was triggered, just at 10% drop, would had been enough to get an nice extra profit there,
if from 22 trades, 14 are losed trades, means 63% of the time it catches a dropping trend, was 0% squezzed, it just cut off loses buying back when the trend rises again,

this scenario happened 63% of the trades in 2 months,  and this means 63% of the "buy cheap" oportunities was lost and  the sentence theory "sell high, buy low" was not profitable at those point.

With simple personalized rules for trigger buy events on a % market price drop, the profit would had been much higher and the drop trend oportunities much better squeezed,

[madpoet]

I get that some people prefer to accumulate BTC over USD.  That said, I don't understand why those people keep harping in this thread.  Some of us prefer to make USD.  We're happy.

[Stingery64]

I get that some people prefer to accumulate BTC over USD.  That said, I don't understand why those people keep harping in this thread.  Some of us prefer to make USD.  We're happy.

more btcs  = more dollars.

but to make dollars is just a fact of hold bitcoins, the bot is losing the btc's at lot of trades to cut of loses, it just don't profit the drops to win money, bot only follow the trend, it really needs rules to trigger buys when its posssible win money.

Sell High, buy low

bot just sell high, and buy high most of the time, that means lose money
unless the difference is so high it takes a tiny profit and thanks to the fact bitcoin price rises, then the profit looks huge, when its very very low in fact.


i think this bot could be one of the best on the market, and the price is reasonable, it just need a simple but strong tweak to work,

[boozezela]

I get that some people prefer to accumulate BTC over USD.  That said, I don't understand why those people keep harping in this thread.  Some of us prefer to make USD.  We're happy.

You can do both actually, but it involves trading manually.

[agibby5]

Over the past few days, using the default BTC-e settings, it seems there was some strange trades...

Bought at 642. Sold at 643
Bought at between 653 and 659. Sold at 691 even though the price went as high as 740.
Then this morning, I got a buy order imminent and it was going to buy back at 735.

I guess this is due to the lagging nature of the EMA algorithm?

This is frustrating. It's showing a small profit, but it's a bit long in between analyzing trades, it seems.

[madpoet]

Hey look if there's a bot that can increase both my BTC and my USD then awesome.  In the mean time I want more USD and the bot is accommodating me there.  Amy tweaks that are positive that's great.  Yesterday for instance I knew that approaching $900 we would likely see a lot of resistance so I paused the bot and manually sold at $885.  If I had waited for the lines cross I would have lost out.  But hey, maybe I would have been wrong and it broke through $900 and I was out of luck.  Thankfully I was right this time and the line cross came last night so I unpaused the bot and let it do its thing this morning on the upswing  Yes this took watching the bot, watching the charts, and a guess based somewhat on past events.  If I had left the bot alone what would have happened?  I would have missed out on something like $60/BTC profit waiting for the lines to cross but I also wouldn't have been sitting in front of my PC all day

[xorred]

I bought the bot...  and it buys high, so far - I had 10.5 btc, now I have 9.6 BTC - that's 890 usd loss.
I demand a full refund of the paypal funds and I demand it publicly.

Transaction ID: 3KY5974955717340M

[fible1]

I bought the bot...  and it buys high, so far - I had 10.5 btc, now I have 9.6 BTC - that's 890 usd loss.
I demand a full refund of the paypal funds and I demand it publicly.

Transaction ID: 3KY5974955717340M

Hi Xorred :=),
    Very happy to accomodate you, please drop me an email at Pablo@Butter-Bot.com and I will be happy to take care of you. I have some questions regarding what settings you are running because depending on your exchange you should have seen no trades to 2 trades over the past several days.

Also, I've said this ad nauseum, EMA is a LONG TERM STRATEGY, you purchased Butter a few days ago in a mean deviating market. You lost some funds on a strategy that is expected to yield 70% small losses and 30% profit trades; profit covering all small losses plus a healthy profit OVER TIME.

YOU PURCHASED TODAY

You can't expect to run a trading software and profit marvelously over a couple of days, anyone who promises this is lying to you, we are very up front about EMA requiring a long term commitment. There are very thorough discussions on this on this thread and on Goomboo's (upon which Butter is based). I wish you would have taken the time to learn about the trading strategy first.

Look forward to your email .

Pablo.

[fible1]

i find the bot algorithm is a bit dumb and can be much more improved, the focus should be into get bitcoins, not FIAT, we must asume the bitcoin price will always go up in the long term

so, in order this is achieved, its always the same idea: "sell high, buy low" and not just "follow trends", as follow trends must be the just an indicator, and this bot lacks a simple diversification trading engine.

so, in my opinion this could improve the profit a lot and does not look very difficult to encode.

there must be an option called " % market price drop "
so you can put there for example: "10%"

and when EMA lines configuration trigger a sell at lets say at 1000$,  then the bot will buy again when one of the next events its achieved:

1º if 10% price drop (900$) is achieved then buy, don't be greedy waiting EMA lines to cross back because you might end up loosing bitcoins, we want sell high, buy low, we want bitcoins, not fiat.
2º if the first option is not achieved, then EMA lines buy configuration will trigger a new buy back to cut losses.

also can be improved further just buy putting a second "% drop"

1º - 10%
2º - 20%


this way, in the first non greddy event that the market price drops a 10% you buy with 90% of your money,
and if EMA lines are not crossing back, and price keep dropping then bot has a 10% of cash to buy back more bitcoins in case it drops further (20% in the example)

if it dont drop further, then EMA lines will cross back and that 10% of resting cash will be used to buy back at the current price and following the up trend, and waiting a new drop trend

the market price must be monitorized in real time, end EMA events in a period of time...

the question could be: "so what if price drops from 1000$ to 100$ ? you are loosing lot of money there...
yeah, but this happens when? 1 time in 10 years a 90% market price drop? any way,
you can put even more triggers like

1º trigger -  10% drop price achieved since the sell  - buy with quick with 80% of the cash
2º trigger -  20% drop price achieved since the sell  - buy with quick with 10% of the resting cash
3º trigger -  90% drop price achieved since the sell  - buy with quick with 10% of the resting cash...



this should not be very difficult to program for experienced coders, i am not that good at this, but the most difficult part checking ema lines
and so on, looks like its done, its just a fact of turn the bot more wise to get bitcoins and not fiat, to buy when the price already dropped enough since the sell, and not wait EMA lines to cross back as you loosed the oportunity.
EMA lines are good to cut off loses, and good to detect drop trends, but if there no inteligence to profit the drops...
just following EMA lines trend is not that good, and can end up loosing bitcoins quite sure (as i already show a few pages back)
specially when it buys and sells all of your money in each operation

This bot needs diversification!

Adding those options would result in a much more wise trading operation steps.
It also might be moved an extra step adding diversification rules on the sell and not just in the buy, like

1º trigger - before EMA lines are crossed, sell 50%
2º trigger - if EMA lines are crossed, sell the other 50%

or so, but at this point the buy events its much more importat in my opinion

This strikes me and the developer as a really good idea; profiting on the smaller movements is a sound improvement. We will be back testing this idea and hopefully adding the functionality described if it back tests well.

Great idea .

Pablo.

[xorred]

the recommended was 2 hours. I set it to 1 hour - other than that, all settings were the same as in your e-mail/PDF.

There was only 2 trades - and from 10.5 I fell to 9.6. I have sent you 2 e-mails already to the e-mail address, including a link to this thread.

[madpoet]

The problem is the bot initiates whatever trade it should when activated no matter how far away from the actual cross event you are which, in this volatile market, can mean a quick loss.  That said anyone who activates a bot on an account with 10 BTC and doesn't understand how it works is nuts to me.