[ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development

[Thirtybird]

If we can't get some new bleeding edge state of the art mining tech for memory hard calculations then the quick and dirty solution is to reset the N factor back to 1 and have a big relaunch and invite all the GPU miners back in.

Additionally you may decide to reset PoS payments to 1% a year but make them increase with N. e.g. when N factor gets 5 PoS is 5% again N = 6 then PoS = 6% etc

Hopefully by the time we get back to our current N factor (which would take a couple of years) then the technology to mine at the higher N factors will exist.

My third suggestion is that while we upgrade the security of our PoS tech we also change the payout intervals from three montly to weekly.

Will GPU miners mine a coin with 60 million already in existence?

They will if it is profitable.

The difficulty will probably have to be increased.

The new AMD GPU's are coming with 8 GB of memory on the 390's.  The Fury's are only 4GB, but it's newer fabbed stuff called HBM (High bandwidth memory) and it has substantially more memory bandwidth of GDDR5 (I think it's double-ish).  Should see 8GB cards with the stuff in the future as AMD is really pushing 4K gaming, which necessitates more memory.  Don't despair about N - there's always the cpu miner

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[caston]

Well what are the reasons for or against an N reset?

And why would we do this instead of just starting again with a new coin?

[NineEleven]

I think we can manage the hasrate if we try harder

If you all wanna try to ghet the network back by overpower the hasrate
count me in 

I mine solo whit 7khs

and i have a public pool running also

so let do it ?

What is your pool address again? I will put it on the website and tweet it out as well. You'll need to (hopefully) be ready for any high volume that comes in. Also, probably getting ddosed.

http://yac.erlog.pt/


the night was great

the pool successfule mined 5,504.02000000 yac
but  hours ago the orphan return

my solo mining also confimr 3567 yac over the night

I think we can do this

[caston]

Would something like this help? 16 gb HMC

http://wccftech.com/intel-14nm-knight-landing-xeon-phi-co-processor-omni-path-100/

[Thirtybird]

Well what are the reasons for or against an N reset?

And why would we do this instead of just starting again with a new coin?

I'm not sure why you would even think this a valid strategy.  Starting over on N IS making a new coin. 

We don't jump to NF=18 for a whole year, so don't start stocking your survival shelter yet.  By the time it arrives, YAC will have been on NF=17 for nearly 1/3 of its existence and it will just be "normal".  Is NF=17 hard on our GPU's? It is.  Is it any different from any NFactor change in the past?  No.  Every change in NFactor is met with confusion, frustration, and HW errors.  This difference is that we have years of understanding now instead of days, or weeks, or months. 

We've known for a while that CPU would become competitive to GPUs again at this NFactor, we just need to figure out how to keep the hashrate spread out so that there's no 51% network ownership.  We had this situation for a long, lone time with coinmine.pl having >51%, but everyone was okay with it because that's where most of the miners were.  During that period, solo mining was difficult because the pool would get most of the blocks and people not on the pool would see orphans.  Now, we have someone who has quite the mining capacity, but he's solo-mining, but only during specified hours, leaving the pools with orphans.  It's quite possible that this is not even malicious intent (other than likely using computers that aren't his or hers), but just that much hashpower that it dominates the network. 

[caston]

Well I hope you are right. Remember I was optimistic and then the other guys started to freak me out. I'm not going to sell my coins not matter what happens though.

[Beave162]

Well what are the reasons for or against an N reset?

And why would we do this instead of just starting again with a new coin?

I'm not sure why you would even think this a valid strategy.  Starting over on N IS making a new coin.  

We don't jump to NF=18 for a whole year, so don't start stocking your survival shelter yet.  By the time it arrives, YAC will have been on NF=17 for nearly 1/3 of its existence and it will just be "normal".  Is NF=17 hard on our GPU's? It is.  Is it any different from any NFactor change in the past?  No.  Every change in NFactor is met with confusion, frustration, and HW errors.  This difference is that we have years of understanding now instead of days, or weeks, or months.  

We've known for a while that CPU would become competitive to GPUs again at this NFactor, we just need to figure out how to keep the hashrate spread out so that there's no 51% network ownership.  We had this situation for a long, lone time with coinmine.pl having >51%, but everyone was okay with it because that's where most of the miners were.  During that period, solo mining was difficult because the pool would get most of the blocks and people not on the pool would see orphans.  Now, we have someone who has quite the mining capacity, but he's solo-mining, but only during specified hours, leaving the pools with orphans.  It's quite possible that this is not even malicious intent (other than likely using computers that aren't his or hers), but just that much hashpower that it dominates the network.  

+1!!!

It looks like we can take the day, but this unknown miner still owns the night (Pacific Time).

In the spirit of not wasting hashpower on orphans and reorgs, I think people should direct their miners on a daily routine during the time this guy(s) is not active. We want everyone who mines YAC to get richer, not poorer at their own expense for this guy's benefit. It is a weird workaround that I think works until 'we' can gather more hashpower. I would think it would be best to time any changes during this time as well to help prevent a fork?

It would be great to see more small miners at http://yac.erlog.pt/. NineEleven, thank you so much! Hashrates are now displayed in hash/s. Joe_Bauers, thanks for displaying that info on the website.

Looking at explore.grokonet.com, I'm noticing a lot of extremely small PoS blocks. It seems a bit odd to me considering I still have a lot of larger inputs ready and waiting to be staked, but perhaps that is an issue with my wallet processing slowly? I'm reminded of your comment senj, "Currently it does not give different trust value to PoS blocks with different stake, as it was before no-two-consecutive-PoS-blocks fix." Perhaps that is a factor as well?

By the way...

I have a pretty good feeling about what is happening now:

We build PoW+PoS+PoW chain with a trust of 10+11+20=41 for example.
Minutes later attacker broadcasts PoW+PoW+PoW+PoW+PoW (10+10+10+10+10=50) and kicks our blocks out.

But the real problem is that PoW difficulty in our branch get's adjusted towards 2 minute spacing when PoS block arives. On the other hand, attacker's blocks are stil one minute apart, so he is mining on lower difficulty, has more time and is able to overtake us eventually (before our POW difficulty readjusts back). It might be that in addition to having more hashing power.
Just one more thing to consider while refactoring GetBlockTrust method.

Really? This concept seems to bolster the value of your changes--increasing PoW difficulty following PoW block. I hope that can be implemented, released soon.

[platinum4]

This is an incredibly interesting scenario that has occurred, very intriguing to follow.

[NineEleven]

REORGANIZE: Disconnect 527 blocks; 000006019877795975fc..736809c28fb519b7d3ab
REORGANIZE: Connect 896 blocks; 000006019877795975fc..000002dd430b8f924423
REORGANIZE
REORGANIZE: Disconnect 527 blocks; 000006019877795975fc..736809c28fb519b7d3ab
REORGANIZE: Connect 896 blocks; 000006019877795975fc..000002dd430b8f924423

[alenevaa]

...Now, we have someone who has quite the mining capacity, but he's solo-mining, but only during specified hours, leaving the pools with orphans.  It's quite possible that this is not even malicious intent (other than likely using computers that aren't his or hers), but just that much hashpower that it dominates the network. 

It's clearly malicious intent!

Code:

REORGANIZE
REORGANIZE: Disconnect 527 blocks; 000006019877795975fc..736809c28fb519b7d3ab
REORGANIZE: Connect 896 blocks; 000006019877795975fc..000002dd430b8f924423

Even hardcoded 520 confirmations doesn't help! What the f..k!?

[NineEleven]

And my wallet is forked
cant sync

I've go to  recover the blockchain  from a backup

[NineEleven]

Now that the pool is on main page

And if we cant recruit  hashrate 'e predict a DDOS on the the pool

SO im going to setup a second stratum server.

Dow anyone knows if MPOS and NOMP play well whit mysql master-master replication?
 

[caston]

Really interested in mining this with HMC tech. Is anything currently available commercialy?

[Thirtybird]

Really interested in mining this with HMC tech. Is anything currently available commercialy?

Xeon Phi's have been available for at least a year, but were price prohibitive, even for the low-end products.  The likelihood that this product will be reasonably price for what it offers in mining is slim-to-none.  Now, if you get one anyway, let us know and we'll try to help you figure out how to mine on it.

[caston]

What about something like this?

http://www.amazon.com/Intel-BC31S1P-Xeon-31S1P-Coprocessor/dp/B00OMCB4JI

$225 USD

The more expensive ones are not massively expensive. At 2g I could probably get one just with my tax return.

Or one might buy multiple Xeon-31S1P like we do now with GPUs.

You do need a motherboard that supports “Above 4G Decoding” and you turn it on in the BIOS.


https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Xeon-Phi-31s1p-Cooling-and-Motherboards-614/

http://arrayfire.com/getting-started-with-the-intel-xeon-phi-on-ubuntu-14-04linux-kernel-3-13-0/

Cooling idea:

http://www.aquatuning.us/water-cooling/gpu-water-blocks/gpu-full-cover/19290/alphacool-nexxxos-gpx-intel-xeon-phi-31xx/51xx/71xx-serie-m01-incl.-backplate-black

or we could wait for Knights Landing:

http://www.zdnet.com/article/intels-next-big-thing-knights-landing/

Another coin that people have tried to use Xeon Phi to mine with is Primecoin.

Some kind of bare bones Xeon-31S1P rig may be more about getting the software right for future implementations than about delivering RoI.

[caston]

Another suggestion. We message the guy that mined primecoin on the Xeon Phi and ask if he can try mining Yacoin.

[Thirtybird]

What about something like this?

http://www.amazon.com/Intel-BC31S1P-Xeon-31S1P-Coprocessor/dp/B00OMCB4JI

$225 USD

You forgot to factor in a server-grade motherboard, and the price of the specialized intel compiler into that.  Lets say the device itself is your only cost.  Even then, you're getting 57 threads at 1.1 GHz with access to 8GB memory at $224 pulling 300 Watts.  Compare to a radeon r7 240 4GB, with 320 threads at 1.1 GHz with access to 4GB memory at $80 pulling 25 Watts.

[caston]

Well anything from intel is expensive but don't underestimate what people will do when given free access to corporate server hardware.
The Yacoin mining landscape will look very different a year or two from now.

There are also ways we might be able to use this or other kinds of technology with consumer hardware such as cheap ASUS boards that support Xeon Phi.

[old c coder]

Hello all,

See
https://github.com/yacoin/yacoin/pull/66 or
https://github.com/yacoin/yacoin/commit/8aefde653926d98fd41cecba7f69cc189de9112f

They are basically changes to YACoin 0.4.4, the Groko testing version (thanks Groko)

The changes (only to the Windows versions) to Qt add a built in Block explorer!  And clean up the UI on a few of the other pages.  Things like missing close buttons and hi-lite colors.

New to both the daemon and Qt, a YAC price "fetcher". It is a new RPC command, and in Qt automatically "fetches" more or less, with every new block, if the program is up to date.

The block explorer is live with the last ~10 hours.  That is if the program is more than ~10 hours behind, the explorer is "quiet", but can be quizzed in any event.

Since there are ~10 times more Windows "desktops" connected to the internet than any other OS http://www.netmarketshare.com/
, I thought I would try to enhance the program to boost the YAcoin appeal. 

And if you remember,
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=206577.msg7007740#msg7007740
from 5/29/2014 (!)  I can now say that the blkindex.dat file MUST have a database/log.00000nnn in the same directory as the wallet file (which can have ANY name, not just wallet.dat!).

Since there was no live (without refreshing the browser) explorer back then, I actually made a version the runs on the Bitcoin Qt program, and watched it side by side with blockchain.info

AFAIK, this is the only built in, live block (and transaction) explorer and price display, in any coin!

Ron

[caston]

Thank you