[DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated

[melodiem]

I never reset the timer for the gift card you were winning.

I have watched it reset twice, there is no indication anyone else won anything or any auction I bid on has ended, nor is there any refund of my bids for the auction not reaching the reserve. (which is how you explained it earlier in this thread)

These ones are nowhere near reserve so I thought I would extend.. but I'm thinking of letting some of them expire and refunding the bids for them if they don't reach reserve this time. Sorry if this caused some confusion... I hope you see why I did this.

No I dont understand. You said it runs one way and now you say you changed your mind and just extended.

You were winning the gift card one and the reserve was 0.14 which you must have seen when you bid on it and it turned green instead of red. It's not in reserve status anymore.

I watched it restart for the second time today Sidhujag, that was a few hours ago now when I posted, but this is now:

There is no choice but to relist the item if it doesn't reach the reserve. The other option is to let the auction expire and sell the miner for $0.22.. that's not happening.

You said that if the auctions ends without reaching reserve, bids are refunded. No-one expects you to sell them below reserve but why are they not relisted as a new auction and users get their bids back to start again they way you said?

The whole point of a silent reserve is so that users won't know what it is and keep bidding until its reached. It's like the ebay reserve. But it is something like 1% of the retail price on average so def not enough to say its way too high and stop people from bidding on the thing they want.

If it is 1% of retail then that is a selling point, not something that should be hidden. A low reserve that was clearly advertised would be a huge drawcard on that miner.

Hopefully the confusion will go away as time goes by as more people join and start bidding. I will get more items especially when devcoin funds some items.

The confusion will not just go away Sidhujag, you need to deal with it in some way because it is your enterprise and you want people to put money in it.

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[George.PK]

I am in with 1,000,000 DVC too.

[sidhujag]

I never reset the timer for the gift card you were winning.

I have watched it reset twice, there is no indication anyone else won anything or any auction I bid on has ended, nor is there any refund of my bids for the auction not reaching the reserve. (which is how you explained it earlier in this thread)

These ones are nowhere near reserve so I thought I would extend.. but I'm thinking of letting some of them expire and refunding the bids for them if they don't reach reserve this time. Sorry if this caused some confusion... I hope you see why I did this.

No I dont understand. You said it runs one way and now you say you changed your mind and just extended.

You were winning the gift card one and the reserve was 0.14 which you must have seen when you bid on it and it turned green instead of red. It's not in reserve status anymore.

I watched it restart for the second time today Sidhujag, that was a few hours ago now when I posted, but this is now:

There is no choice but to relist the item if it doesn't reach the reserve. The other option is to let the auction expire and sell the miner for $0.22.. that's not happening.

You said that if the auctions ends without reaching reserve, bids are refunded. No-one expects you to sell them below reserve but why are they not relisted as a new auction and users get their bids back to start again they way you said?

The whole point of a silent reserve is so that users won't know what it is and keep bidding until its reached. It's like the ebay reserve. But it is something like 1% of the retail price on average so def not enough to say its way too high and stop people from bidding on the thing they want.

If it is 1% of retail then that is a selling point, not something that should be hidden. A low reserve that was clearly advertised would be a huge drawcard on that miner.

Hopefully the confusion will go away as time goes by as more people join and start bidding. I will get more items especially when devcoin funds some items.

The confusion will not just go away Sidhujag, you need to deal with it in some way because it is your enterprise and you want people to put money in it.

I never touched them now unless theres a bug in the timer. It was 69 hrs before now its 63 how is it resetting?  Its at 57 now.

[melodiem]

Because it already got to

I never touched them now unless theres a bug in the timer. It was 69 hrs before now its 63 how is it resetting?  Its at 57 now.

Maybe you need to get on to some bug checking Sidhujag...how many hours ago did you post that I was about to win the auction??? No-one has placed a bid since then and the 70hour timer has reset twice. I have already told you that, which part is confusing?

I should think the fact I didnt win the auction you were watching (and neither did anyone else??) should flag it to you that something is wrong.

*edited because its a useless comment that wont help anything

[melodiem]

Looks like this auction is passed the reserve and will award the winner, it will be the first auction winner!

http://devcoinauctions.com/blog/auction/340/

melodiemuse is ahead atm.

6 days ago Sidhujag

[sidhujag]

Because it already got to

I never touched them now unless theres a bug in the timer. It was 69 hrs before now its 63 how is it resetting?  Its at 57 now.

Maybe you need to get on to some bug checking Sidhujag...how many hours ago did you post that I was about to win the auction??? No-one has placed a bid since then and the 70hour timer has reset twice. I have already told you that, which part is confusing?

I should think the fact I didnt win the auction you were watching (and neither did anyone else??) should flag it to you that something is wrong.

*edited because its a useless comment that wont help anything

Reread my msg again I never said you were about to win I said there will be an auction winner since u passed the reserve!

Were you checking the auctions logged out? Cause logged out the html is cached but seems the cache wasnt refrshing so the time was off.. but it doesnt affect the real time and expiry. Logged in you would see the real time left. Ifixed that now anyway but it was never about to expire.. the miner I started again and tv etc since there were not many bidders and nothing really happening yet so I started it again.. Now I will refund auctions and restart them.

[melodiem]

Reread my msg again I never said you were about to win I said there will be an auction winner since u passed the reserve!

Yes, and there were no further bids and 6 days later, no-one has won that auction!

Were you checking the auctions logged out? Cause logged out the html is cached but seems the cache wasnt refrshing so the time was off.. but it doesnt affect the real time and expiry. Logged in you would see the real time left.

Yes I was logged in Sidhujag because I assumed at first it was my error and I was missing something.

Ifixed that now anyway but it was never about to expire..

Then when DOES it expire?? It seems to just restart again, and again twice so far.

[sidhujag]

Reread my msg again I never said you were about to win I said there will be an auction winner since u passed the reserve!

Yes, and there were no further bids and 6 days later, no-one has won that auction!

Were you checking the auctions logged out? Cause logged out the html is cached but seems the cache wasnt refrshing so the time was off.. but it doesnt affect the real time and expiry. Logged in you would see the real time left.

Yes I was logged in Sidhujag because I assumed at first it was my error and I was missing something.

Ifixed that now anyway but it was never about to expire..

Then when DOES it expire?? It seems to just restart again, and again twice so far.

That auction has been running for a few weeks I set it to expire end of month.. nothing has changed. I posted that when there was 6 or 7 days left in auction. Time needs to goto 0 before you are the winner.

I never restarted the $10 gift card after the reserve was met.. theres no reason to do that. I restarted ones that expired with little or no bids.

[sidhujag]

The auctions that expired, I have refunded bids and relisted them...

Check out your http://devcoinauctions.com/my-account/transactions/ to see the bids refunded.

Thanks

[melodiem]

That auction has been running for a few weeks I set it to expire end of month.. nothing has changed. I posted that when there was 6 or 7 days left in auction. Time needs to goto 0 before you are the winner.

I never restarted the $10 gift card after the reserve was met.. theres no reason to do that. I restarted ones that expired with little or no bids.

I WATCHED the timer reset TWICE! No-where on that auction does it say it ends at the "end of the month" Why does it have a timer for 70 hours if its going for a month? I thought at first maybe I had it wrong so I went back to the site 69 hours later and it reset for the second time IN FRONT OF MY EYES Sidhujag. I have no reason to lie? I wanted to run a story on the first auction winner (whoever it was) for heaven sake!

Also, I have tried to understand your explanation to HunterBunters question but you have not explained the payment system at all. This is the situation from a user perspective.

That card retails for $10
I bought 20 bids for $24.95 ( I will round it down to $1 per bid for this excersize)
Each bid increases the "auction" by 0.01
The reserve was 0.14 ($14)
The current price after Papacrusher bid is 0.25 ($25)
For a $10 Amazon card?

From what you have explained, we have to pay for the card at the end of the auction and this is when it gets very, very confusing.

1) What happens to that $25.00 worth of bids placed on this auction after its ended?
2) How much is the final price the winner will pay and how do users work that out?

[sidhujag]

That auction has been running for a few weeks I set it to expire end of month.. nothing has changed. I posted that when there was 6 or 7 days left in auction. Time needs to goto 0 before you are the winner.

I never restarted the $10 gift card after the reserve was met.. theres no reason to do that. I restarted ones that expired with little or no bids.

I WATCHED the timer reset TWICE! No-where on that auction does it say it ends at the "end of the month" Why does it have a timer for 70 hours if its going for a month? I thought at first maybe I had it wrong so I went back to the site 69 hours later and it reset for the second time IN FRONT OF MY EYES Sidhujag. I have no reason to lie? I wanted to run a story on the first auction winner (whoever it was) for heaven sake!

Also, I have tried to understand your explanation to HunterBunters question but you have not explained the payment system at all. This is the situation from a user perspective.

That card retails for $10
I bought 20 bids for $24.95 ( I will round it down to $1 per bid for this excersize)
Each bid increases the "auction" by 0.01
The reserve was 0.14 ($14)
The current price after Papacrusher bid is 0.25 ($25)
For a $10 Amazon card?

From what you have explained, we have to pay for the card at the end of the auction and this is when it gets very, very confusing.

1) What happens to that $10.50 worth of bids placed on this auction after its ended?
2) How much is the final price the winner will pay and how do users work that out?

The current price IS NOT $25 it is $0.25 you make the assumption that the user buys all the bids when papacrusher just came and bid twice. So to him the cost is $0.25+$2.00=$2.25 for a $10 gift card.

with the Buy It Now, I add functionality to show how much you have spent showing how much more you would have to pay if you wanted to just buy it @ retail price. I've enabled buy it now on the card so you can see it... refresh the auction page.

Regarding the timer... when did it reset after the reserve was met? I'm not sure what you are seeing because I have been looking everytime you post and the time is correct its counting down at the right time. I set it to expire at the end of the month when I last reset the auction (like 10-12 days ago), so it would be 24*12 hours at the beginning counting down to 0. 10-12 days ago, the reserve was not met and it was essentially I just added more time... BUT ever since you reached the reserve I've been letting it countdown... and its less than a day left now.

1) The bids placed in the auction is the auction's profit
2) The final price is the settling price of the auction at expiry (time = 0), it will show up under your won items & not paid in your account section.

In the example above papacrusher would pay $0.25 via paypal/coinpayments for the giftcard.

Look I'm not saying your lying all I am saying is there is a misunderstanding. I don't think there is a bug because I am checking it every few hours... I haven't seen it reset (the gift card) since I last did it which was BEFORE the reserve was met so its been atleast 6-7 days since its been reset... so if it has happened just recently takea  screen shot and show me because I don't see the same thing.

You said

"When do the auctions end? The timer keeps resetting, but you said I was about to win the first auction a couple of days ago and I have no idea how this would happen since the auction has not reached your reserve (which is unknown so could be $10 for all I know) and the whole thing just starts for another 69 hours again when it gets to 0."

I'm asking when did it get to 0? I never said it was about to expire, you invented that. Was this AFTER you reached the reserve? Because if so then yes there was a bug... if no... then that was me and I've explained when and why this was done.

[melodiem]

The current price IS NOT $25 it is $0.25 you make the assumption that the user buys all the bids when papacrusher just came and bid once. So to him the cost is $0.25+$1.00=$1.25 for a $10 gift card.

And you keep the rest of the votes, so the real price being paid to YOU for this card is $25+

Regarding the timer... when did it reset after the reserve was met? I'm not sure what you are seeing because I have been looking everytime you post and the time is correct its counting down at the right time. I set it to expire at the end of the month when I last reset the auction (like 10-12 days ago), so it would be 24*12 hours at the beginning counting down to 0.

I didnt even look at the auction until you said it had passed reserve Sidhujag because I thought there was a news story in it so yes, The timer reset AFTER the auction hits reserve. WHERE did it say the auction would end at the end of the month? I wish I had taken a screenshot when it went to 0 because it seems you will not believe me without it.

[melodiem]

I'm asking when did it get to 0? I never said it was about to expire, you invented that. Was this AFTER you reached the reserve? Because if so then yes there was a bug... if no... then that was me and I've explained when and why this was done.

Invented? I "invented f*** all Sidhujag, the TIMER said it was about to expire, then got to 0 and reset.

[sidhujag]

The current price IS NOT $25 it is $0.25 you make the assumption that the user buys all the bids when papacrusher just came and bid once. So to him the cost is $0.25+$1.00=$1.25 for a $10 gift card.

And you keep the rest of the votes, so the real price being paid to YOU for this card is $25+

Regarding the timer... when did it reset after the reserve was met? I'm not sure what you are seeing because I have been looking everytime you post and the time is correct its counting down at the right time. I set it to expire at the end of the month when I last reset the auction (like 10-12 days ago), so it would be 24*12 hours at the beginning counting down to 0.

I didnt even look at the auction until you said it had passed reserve Sidhujag because I thought there was a news story in it so yes, The timer reset AFTER the auction hits reserve. WHERE did it say the auction would end at the end of the month? I wish I had taken a screenshot when it went to 0 because it seems you will not believe me without it.

Yes it may have been gone to 0 but the RESERVE WAS NOT MET message would have been shown on the closed auctions tab. I essentially enabled it again and then you passed the reserve. Again I ask you, when did it go to 0? Was this after reserve was met? If so there was a bug, if not then its fine.

Yes the site got $25 so Output > Input, whole point of business. Please read the business plan: http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=auction_business

Think of it this way.. when there are devcoin funded auctions... this is paid to YOU and not me since profits are given back to the community.. so if you hold coins or support devcoin this is positive for you.

[melodiem]

Yes it may have been gone to 0 but the RESERVE WAS NOT MET message would have been shown on the closed auctions tab. I essentially enabled it again and then you passed the reserve. Again I ask you, when did it go to 0? Was this after reserve was met? If so there was a bug, if not then its fine.

And I KEEP telling you, it reset to 0 AFTER it was past reserve and AFTER you posted that message 7 days ago!!!! I have answered you the same way all along, which part dont you get?

[sidhujag]

Yes it may have been gone to 0 but the RESERVE WAS NOT MET message would have been shown on the closed auctions tab. I essentially enabled it again and then you passed the reserve. Again I ask you, when did it go to 0? Was this after reserve was met? If so there was a bug, if not then its fine.

And I KEEP telling you, it reset to 0 AFTER it was past reserve and AFTER you posted that message 7 days ago!!!! I have answered you the same way all along, which part dont you get?

So ever since you have been bringing it up, its been counting down regularly that's the part I don't get... I'm not seeing where it got to 0... It may have been at a time I was upating the website or because of the caching issue... but the internal timer never got to 0, or it was temporary as I was updating the code for the buy it now feature. I haven't fiddled with it too much last few days so it hasnt done what you said last few days for sure.. i've been watching it as you started bringing it up, its been coming down from 70 hours since we started talking about this.

Could be around the time it was 70 hours I was working on buy it now and maybe you loaded a script I was half-way done with and it showed 0 time left at that moment because I do remember I was playing with the auction timer making sure that peopel can bid all the way down to 1 second left.. I was adding a buffer in the time to make sure people can bid until the end since there is about a 2 second lag between the bid button clicked and the display updating... but that was fixed and updated within a few hours and was a few days ago... but its a small chance that you were caught up in a page that showed that, it didn't really affect the bidding process just the display of the time at that moment.

[melodiem]

I wont

Yes the site got $25 so Output > Input, whole point of business. Please read the business plan: http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=auction_business

Think of it this way.. when there are devcoin funded auctions... this is paid to YOU and not me since profits are given back to the community.. so if you hold coins or support devcoin this is positive for you.

How is it positive for me, when a non devcoiner comes to your site and does the math and realises you are actually making more than retail on the basic reserve price? (0.14 means @ $1 per bid you make $4.14 on a $10 product)

That would not be a problem if it was honestly sold that way but you say the "reserve is 1% of retail" you make it sound like you are taking a risk having a reserve but it isnt in reality is it? The reserve is set by the number of bids, not the actual auction. Its a deceptive way to sell and I dont see a reason for it. It also explains why you insist on hiding the reserve price, why would you tell people the reserve is really $14?

The way this works in reality, its not an auction site its a raffle with the winning ticket being the last one drawn/bid. The way raffles work, is you have to sell enough tickets to cover the cost of the product but only one person wins and all they paid was the price of their ticket/bid.

[sidhujag]

I wont

Yes the site got $25 so Output > Input, whole point of business. Please read the business plan: http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=auction_business

Think of it this way.. when there are devcoin funded auctions... this is paid to YOU and not me since profits are given back to the community.. so if you hold coins or support devcoin this is positive for you.

How is it positive for me, when a non devcoiner comes to your site and does the math and realises you are actually making more than retail on the basic reserve price? (0.14 means @ $1 per bid you make $4.14 on a $10 product)

That would not be a problem if it was honestly sold that way but you say the "reserve is 1% of retail" you make it sound like you are taking a risk having a reserve but it isnt in reality is it? The reserve is set by the number of bids, not the actual auction. Its a deceptive way to sell and I dont see a reason for it. It also explains why you insist on hiding the reserve price, why would you tell people the reserve is really $14?

The way this works in reality, its not an auction site its a raffle with the winning ticket being the last one drawn/bid. The way raffles work, is you have to sell enough tickets to cover the cost of the product but only one person wins and all they paid was the price of their ticket/bid.

Why would you advertise that? Do people care all that much? In the end they can buy things cheaper than retail thats all that matters who cares how much the service is making since you get what you want.

Its just how business works. If google advertised how much they make off of you for every search and click would you keep using them or move to one that seems like they are working for free whrn they arent?

[melodiem]

Yes it may have been gone to 0 but the RESERVE WAS NOT MET message would have been shown on the closed auctions tab. I essentially enabled it again and then you passed the reserve. Again I ask you, when did it go to 0? Was this after reserve was met? If so there was a bug, if not then its fine.

And I KEEP telling you, it reset to 0 AFTER it was past reserve and AFTER you posted that message 7 days ago!!!! I have answered you the same way all along, which part dont you get?

So ever since you have been bringing it up, its been counting down regularly that's the part I don't get... I'm not seeing where it got to 0... It may have been at a time I was upating the website or because of the caching issue... but the internal timer never got to 0, or it was temporary as I was updating the code for the buy it now feature. I haven't fiddled with it too much last few days so it hasnt done what you said last few days for sure.. i've been watching it as you started bringing it up, its been coming down from 70 hours since we started talking about this.

Could be around the time it was 70 hours I was working on buy it now and maybe you loaded a script I was half-way done with and it showed 0 time left at that moment because I do remember I was playing with the auction timer making sure that peopel can bid all the way down to 1 second left.. I was adding a buffer in the time to make sure people can bid until the end since there is about a 2 second lag between the bid button clicked and the display updating... but that was fixed and updated within a few hours and was a few days ago... but its a small chance that you were caught up in a page that showed that, it didn't really affect the bidding process just the display of the time at that moment.

Bullshit. Were you just by chance doing that both the times it reset?

I told you I saw it hit 0 and reset the first time and start again (after your post about the "first auction would have winner because it was past reserve") and then I came back after 69 hours and watched it do the same again, which is when I posted here. I didnt take the screen shot until a few hours later because I didnt think I would need to prove something that must be obvious from the back end of that site.

[melodiem]

Why would you advertise that? Do people care all that much? In the end they can buy things cheaper than retail thats all that matters who cares how much the service is making since you get what you want.

Its just how business works. If google advertised how much they make off of you for every search and click would you keep using them or move to one that seems like they are working for free whrn they arent?

I wouldnt advertise that Sidhujag, but I also would not run a business that required hiding anything from my customers. I would simply run an honest auction with clearly shown end and start dates and run a 3 month Beta test with paid customers before I launch...but thats just me.

Google very publicly post their profits Sidhujag, and if anyone wanted to find out where it all came from, that wouldn't be hard to do as they are a listed company. You on the other hand are one guy on the other side of the world...you have a lot more to prove about what you can deliver for my money than Google do.