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Author Topic: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s  (Read 875472 times)
Coin_Master
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January 09, 2014, 12:26:30 PM
 #6661

Beside all things that went wrong... Hashfast clearly messed it up no doubt - my guess is it will come down to the question:
Refund of "value in" BC or refund of "exact number of" BC.
HashFast are refusing to refund in BTC, we are not even at the stage of determining what amounts of BTC will be refunded.  HashFast have indicated in an email sent to customers that the refunds must be in USD.  It is important to remain focused on the facts.  HashFast agreed to refund in BTC, and now are refusing to refund in BTC.
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aneutronic
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January 09, 2014, 02:04:35 PM
 #6662

Anyone else want to chip in with me for a lawyer? I'm tired of being pushed around by these ASIC companies. Maybe we could all throw a little BTC to an address and all be represented by the same lawyer for the sake of convenience.

I only ordered one unit, but it's the principal of the matter. Simon said he would refund in full BTC amounts and he must honor his word. This is the first situation that I feel we actually have a case for full BTC refunds. That quote from Simon where he confirmed what Cypherdoc had said (all orders made in BTC will be refunded the full BTC amount) is the smoking gun IMO.

PS: I see people are sending in letters/faxes/etc. requesting full BTC refunds. What is the proper procedure/wording of such a document? Should I send something like this in as well?

Lets get rid of the juvenile image posting please.

Hi all.

 * Anybody not in Batch 1, don't read this.
 * Anybody in Batch 1 who believes that HashFast is going to do the right thing voluntary, without a gentle nudge from us, don't read this.
 * Anybody in Batch 1 who believes that the right way to deal with HashFast is to open more communication channels with them, don't read this.

For the rest of you:

I have found a lawyer who is willing to take our case, and help us get our BTC back, if we can cooperate.)

The name is Ray E. Gallo.

Please make up your minds about him; I think he is great. (85% winning percentage, and specialized in class and mass actions alleging large scale fraud.)

Some data:

http://gallo-law.com/attorneys/gallo.html
http://www.avvo.com/attorneys/94901-ca-ray-gallo-291467.html
http://www.avvo.com/attorneys/94901-ca-ray-gallo-291467/reviews.html    <= reviews
http://www.linkedin.com/in/raygallo

(Now I let you experienced Google detectives jump on him.)

  * * *

After exchanging around 100 mails with me, and analyzing all the documents and evidence with his team, he thinks we can probably win this case for Batch 1 customers who have paid in BTC. (But of course there is no guarantee.)

As you all know, class action is forbidden by the (ever-changing) Terms of Service, but (by the nature of thing) "mass action" is not, and can not be.
So we can proceed in a “mass” basis: the same attorney working with multiple clients simultaneously.

This is like a class case in that it will give us some leverage by aggregating claims so that we can do more work on the matter.
It’s different in that they can make us try (arbitrate) every case.
(Which means that individual cases might end with success or failure independently of each other, but we can optionally pool the results, if we want to reach a fair distribution at the end.)

  * * *

Since the legal costs are (usually) pretty high, this might well be the only way to go for small customers like me, who have only bought 1 or 2 units.
(It would not make any economic sense to hire a such a strong lawyer on my own, but together, we might be able to make it.)

Ray Gallo is ready to take the case on a contingent basis, so we don't have to pay up-front; his fee comes down from the money recovered from HashFast, if we win.

The key to make this work is to collect enough participants.
He said that he is willing to take the case if there are at least around 30 Baby Jet worth of customers.



Now the question is, how many of you would you willing to participate in such an arrangement? I have 1 BJ.

DISCLAIMER: I know others are also talking to other lawyers, too. I'm not saying that everybody should stop what they are doing and stop proceeding along those lines; I
am just saying that this looks like a very good opportunity to me.

Anybody who is interested, please contact him directly via his own page, which I have linked above.

The deadline is this Friday. We have to collect enough customers by then.

Best wishes:

    fenwick

I can confirm this is legit. Any one wishing to get involved can contact me, fenwick, or the law firm directly.



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January 09, 2014, 02:16:08 PM
 #6663

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January 09, 2014, 02:17:46 PM
 #6664



REFUNDS@hashfast.com

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January 09, 2014, 02:18:30 PM
 #6665

If you want prove of receipt of your Refund request, do the following:

If you haven't done so yet, send the refund request to: 'refunds@hashfast.com'
-> You won't get any response.

Using the same email account, send any general question (or the same refund request) to: 'sales@hashfast.com'
-> They will send you an automatic response back from there with a link to the 'case' on fogbugz.com.


Click on that link, and scroll to the bottom. You should see a list of all your 'cases', including your refund request made to 'refunds@hashfast.com'. This proves they received it.  Print out as much as you can and keep.

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January 09, 2014, 02:22:21 PM
 #6666

If you want prove of receipt of your Refund request, do the following:

If you haven't done so yet, send the refund request to: 'refunds@hashfast.com'
-> You won't get any response.

Using the same email account, send any general question (or the same refund request) to: 'sales@hashfast.com'
-> They will send you an automatic response back from there with a link to the 'case' on fogbugz.com.


Click on that link, and scroll to the bottom. You should see a list of all your 'cases', including your refund request made to 'refunds@hashfast.com'. This proves they received it.  Print out as much as you can and keep.

Great tip! Thanks Smiley

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January 09, 2014, 02:28:21 PM
 #6667

So you believed that they would be able to design and manufacture everything without touching any of the pre-order funds?
Yes, I did— or at least substantially. This is the norm in electronics manufacture, thats what investors are for, normally you don't have the customers funds before your design is done and manufactured. Pre-orders are unusual. Even in custom one off manufacture in the commercial market not only is payment normally provided _at delivery_ but goods are often invoiced net-30, so you won't get paid until sometime after delivery of the product.

Besides, you can factor out the exchange rate noise, just assume that the exchange rate was constant. In (some/most/all) states you are legally obligated to provide full refunds for pre-orders with fairly short notice on late delivery, and— obviously— in all states you are required to refund customers if you don't ship a product.  So they wouldn't have been able to meet even the most conventional of obligations, in the worst case (e.g. their design failed) if they'd been spending the pre-order funds to fund design and manufacturing.

In the mining space pre-order lets a maker lock in outsized prices and deny business to the competition by locking up the customers funds early. It might also be used to fund development and manufacture but if so, thats very risky, and may create all kind of adverse exposure for the business. Better to get investors with clearly established rights and obligations.

They clearly played us as investors.
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-01-09/bitcoin-mining-chips-gear-computing-groups-competition-heats-up#p3

Quote
A typical company might take a year to 18 months to design and manufacture such a custom chip. De Castro and his partner, Simon Barber, a former engineer at the Palo Alto Research Center, tried to pull it off in a few months. They hired a team of 20 engineers and consultants and hunkered down for weeks in the offices of a local chip design consulting firm. Bills for those services ran into the millions, though HashFast had raised only $600,000 from friends and family. (Several family members balked at investing in what they called “Monopoly money,” de Castro says.) The HashFast partners raised the rest by preselling $15 million worth of mining rigs on the idea alone, without even a prototype. Naturally, the company took payment in Bitcoin.

 Angry
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January 09, 2014, 02:37:04 PM
 #6668

Thanks for sharing - emailed the journalists. Too bad that they are able to reach them before we do.

So, anyone accepting bets on the ownership of the 4PH that just hit the network?


My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
pmorici
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January 09, 2014, 02:41:05 PM
 #6669

So, anyone accepting bets on the ownership of the 4PH that just hit the network?

21e6?

Gigampz: Adapter Boards for Server Power Supplies 50% cheaper than ATX power supplies.  DPS-800GBA, DPS-1200FBA, Common Slot, CRPS, DPS-1200TBA, DPS-2000bb, Dell z750p
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January 09, 2014, 02:46:09 PM
 #6670

So, anyone accepting bets on the ownership of the 4PH that just hit the network?

21e6?

rumour has it that 2e6 has crusty hot chips that aren't that competitive.  still... asicminer has proved that if you have awesome cooling, you can make crusty old chips still profitable...  and make enough money to hopefully make some shiny new chips

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January 09, 2014, 02:49:48 PM
 #6671

Ok, I was not aware of the context of that statement. The statement itself can still be interpreted in several ways [...]

http://hashfast.org/Simon_E._M._Barber

Quote
Given those points, it's evident that if Simon didn't actually promised full Bitcoin refunds with his answer (since that this is open to interpretation), he at least tried to pursue his customers into believing that if such refunds where to be issued, they would have been of the same Bitcoin amount.

The key is that Simon quoted the direct question accompanying his reply.
Jutarul
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January 09, 2014, 02:54:25 PM
 #6672

Right. Last year I invested in AMD. I ordered some GPUs which actually got delivered as advertised.

addendum: Thinking about it I am also investing in Kellogg's, Coca Cola and other basic necessities.

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
"The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.", Milton Friedman
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January 09, 2014, 03:04:03 PM
 #6673

@aneutronic
Thanks for sharing this great article.

What a FUCKING LIARS are those cockroaches at HashLast.
Spreading news that they are backed by venture capital, turns out to be raising money from their FUCKING FAMILY.
Only 600.000 dollar, what are poor family is that.
I only in it for 1 shit Porn Jet.
I learn from Fucking BFL not to order more than 1 unit until they have a working miner.
If they can ship their miners I will jump into it like I jumped into November Jupiters.

I am very pissed off, even it is only 1 Porn Jet, I feel sad for all those who give these thieves their hard earned BTC.

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January 09, 2014, 03:05:39 PM
 #6674

@Easy2Mine, what makes you think that they didn't created that PR ad hoc to make you think that they don't have the money / that kind of BS?

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
aneutronic
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January 09, 2014, 03:08:37 PM
 #6675

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-01-09/bitcoin-mining-chips-gear-computing-groups-competition-heats-up#p3

Quote
De Castro is confident his computers will still be profitable for customers and cheerfully calls his strategy “aiming the car straight at the biggest wall suckers we could find and gunning it.”

FTFY you grinning asshole!
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January 09, 2014, 03:14:51 PM
 #6676

What a pitiable and ridiculous sight...



Thanks for sharing - emailed the journalists. Too bad that they are able to reach them before we do.

So, anyone accepting bets on the ownership of the 4PH that just hit the network?

definitifely not HF, they don't have a working product.
cedivad
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January 09, 2014, 03:15:36 PM
 #6677

definitifely not HF, they don't have a working product.
Luke, Icedrill and a their new PCB rev. might disagree with you.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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January 09, 2014, 03:23:49 PM
 #6678

definitifely not HF, they don't have a working product.
Luke, Icedrill and a their new PCB rev. might disagree with you.
I don't hear them talk a lot about it though.

And
Quote
De Castro is confident his computers will still be profitable for customers and cheerfully calls his strategy “aiming the car straight at the biggest wall we could find and running into it with full speed.”
FTFY
SolarSilver
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January 09, 2014, 03:32:32 PM
 #6679

That is not true, I talked to them yesterday and they said most of the refunds are being sent in BTC. 

But what amount of BTC? The amount of BTC one paid for an order? Or the USD adjusted rate?
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January 09, 2014, 03:36:14 PM
 #6680

That is not true, I talked to them yesterday and they said most of the refunds are being sent in BTC. 
But what amount of BTC? The amount of BTC one paid for an order? Or the USD adjusted rate?

90% troll/puppet, don't lose your time.

They have to support what will be their useless maginot line, after all.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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