HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s

[willBTC]

what's the Power Consumption of Hash Fast newest chip ?

[1714909442]

1714909442

[1714909442]

1714909442

[fubly]

what's the Power Consumption of Hash Fast newest chip ?

1,5 Terra Watt on 240 Gh/s. As low as 2,80 USD powercost per minute

ask your question here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=426644.msg4928799#msg4928799

[cedivad]

Plan B
As you are all aware we broke many world records in releasing the 28nm chip in such a short amount of time. We are a very ambitious company but even for us, to go “all in” and not be able to deliver on our performance targets, like our competition, would be completely unacceptable to us as a company and everything we stand for. So today we are introducing, Plan B.
 
To make sure that everyone who has paid for their Neptune we are building a data centre like no other. It is located in the north of Sweden not far from Facebook and other Mega Data Centres and it’s totally powered by renewable energy.
 
Over the next few months we are bringing online enough hashing power to make sure that any delay in the Neptune timeline will be compensated with a completely free hosted hashing packages to all fully paid customers.

In the addition to this commitment, as part of Plan B, for all Neptune customers, we will be offering a free conversion to a hosted hashing package where we will simply fill your wallets directly and you won’t have to worry about anything else. All the other costs taken care of by us. We are able to do this by using our 28nm chips which is why all products that we have coming out of our factory in the next few months will go into building and supplying the Plan B facility.
 
If, during the course of development of Neptune, there is any threat to the timelines for delivery, those delays will not result in the loss of any mining time for our Neptune customers. We will release more details of this as we get closer to the delivery date, but for now we have one of the world’s largest data centres to build.

Thanks
KnCMiner Team

...

 

[perezoso]

I'm thinking this is the end of 'consumer' mining.  We're dead. Zombies for another year and change, maybe.

Except as a true "hobby".  A "true" hobby in the sense of it being a known money-losing proposition from the beginning.

There's no way to profitably make and sell hardware that is also profitable to your customer anymore. And this will only worsen.

Watch the other guys clear their order backlogs and follow into the "self-mining" business... if they have the money and functional technology.  

Yeah, sure, BFL can still retail ridiculously overpriced jalapeños, and others can do the same, as consumer curiosities... no zitty teenager will be without a few gigahashes that will eventually earn enough to pay for some porn... but as miners, we're basically redundant now. Hopelessly outgunned.  The Polish cavalry versus panzers and stukas.

The chip makers, and associates, will build datacenters and quickly come to control the lion's share of the network hashrate.  They'll sell shares to people at a certain price - one that covers their cost and provides an immediate profit - those shares will be for people who want to gamble on bitcoin gaining value, because they will be priced at irrational levels (i.e. no ROI without heavy BTC appreciation).   It'll be about like buying BTC.

Queue the fat lady!

[itod]

Watch the other guys clear their order backlogs and follow into the "self-mining" business... if they have the money and functional technology.

There's zero chance this will happen. It's a fact that people are willing to pay much more for the miners then they will ever mine. Just look at this subforum and GH/BTC price hardware is selling. It will absolutely never ROI positive, and people are still buying, and buying...

Only insane manager would keep it's own ASICs and mine for the manufacturer, when he can sell them for more BTC than they will ever mine. What you claim makes no sense.

[Paladin69]

Watch the other guys clear their order backlogs and follow into the "self-mining" business... if they have the money and functional technology.

There's zero chance this will happen. It's a fact that people are willing to pay much more for the miners then they will ever mine. Just look at this subforum and GH/BTC price hardware is selling. It will absolutely never ROI positive, and people are still buying, and buying...

Only insane manager would keep it's own ASICs and mine for the manufacturer, when he can sell them for more BTC than they will ever mine. What you claim makes no sense.

Well, it is a pie chart.  There is benefit in drinking peoples milk shake with a large data center.

[perezoso]

Watch the other guys clear their order backlogs and follow into the "self-mining" business... if they have the money and functional technology.

There's zero chance this will happen. It's a fact that people are willing to pay much more for the miners then they will ever mine. Just look at this subforum and GH/BTC price hardware is selling. It will absolutely never ROI positive, and people are still buying, and buying...

Only insane manager would keep it's own ASICs and mine for the manufacturer, when he can sell them for more BTC than they will ever mine. What you claim makes no sense.

That would be true a few months ago when more people around here saw rainbows and unicorns (at times including myself).  Maybe there will continue to be some buyers for equipment bigger than toys (toys=Jalapeño, Block Eruptard) that demonstrably has a zero chance of ROI without massive BTC value increase, and as long as there are, I suppose there will be offering.

But the action is moving elsewhere, my friend. If they aren't being written already, the news stories about the death of profitably mining-at-home will be written soon, and the broader public will eventually learn through the media what we have learned the harder way. the dumbs noobs will dwindle too when it becomes conventional wisdom that, like making pasta, it makes more sense to buy at the market.

Why package all this sh*t up individually, sustain lawsuits, deal with customer support, shipping, yadda yadda yadda?  If you want to cater to the consumer market, sell timeshares.  Set up resellers if you want, to deal with the pesky public.  You think Hashfast would mine for itself by packaging every board in a BJ with all the attendant costs?  Hashfast data center with 10,000 BJs, each hand made?  Hell no.  They'll go industrial scale and form, shed the angry customers, sell shares, and profitably mine with the remaining hashpower.


And PS:  You can look in my history and see I've never been one to make "self-mining" accusations.  But with all the other large scale operations taking shape, and when KnC says it is building "one of the largest data centres in the world" and wants to shift its pending orders over to hosted hashing.... sorry, it's over.

[itod]

But the action is moving elsewhere, my friend. If they aren't being written already, the news stories about the death of profitably mining-at-home will be written soon, and the broader public will eventually learn through the media what we have learned the harder way. the dumbs noobs will dwindle too when it becomes conventional wisdom that, like making pasta, it makes more sense to buy at the market.

I understand your point, but look at it from the ASIC manufacturer perspective: Let's say they just produced 10.000 BJ-like machines. They can sell them, for instance, 7 BTC each like popcorns, or they can build datacenter to mine themselves and gamble to mine 7.5-8, and realistically expect to mine 5-6 before the BTC price/power cost equilibrium. They can get 70.000 BTC before the end of the week, or risk to earn 50.000-80.000 BTC in the future. What would you do as a CEO?

There's another question of big datacenter built by the KnC. I highly doubt it will be in the KnC ownership, they are very probably building it for some large corporation. Same logic as in the paragraph above, why risk with their own money when there are big gorillas willing to risk and pay more then it's safe projected income? They are probably doing what is their core specialty - selling technology and knowledge, somebody else is dealing with financial risks, not ASIC manufacturers.

[Melbustus]

But the action is moving elsewhere, my friend. If they aren't being written already, the news stories about the death of profitably mining-at-home will be written soon, and the broader public will eventually learn through the media what we have learned the harder way. the dumbs noobs will dwindle too when it becomes conventional wisdom that, like making pasta, it makes more sense to buy at the market.

I understand your point, but look at it from the ASIC manufacturer perspective: Let's say they just produced 10.000 BJ-like machines. They can sell them, for instance, 7 BTC each like popcorns, or they can build datacenter to mine themselves and gamble to mine 7.5-8, and realistically expect to mine 5-6 before the BTC price/power cost equilibrium. They can get 70.000 BTC before the end of the week, or risk to earn 50.000-80.000 BTC in the future. What would you do as a CEO?

There's another question of big datacenter built by the KnC. I highly doubt it will be in the KnC ownership, they are very probably building it for some large corporation. Same logic as in the paragraph above, why risk with their own money when there are big gorillas willing to risk and pay more then it's safe projected income? They are probably doing what is their core specialty - selling technology and knowledge, somebody else is dealing with financial risks, not ASIC manufacturers.

perezoso is saying that customers will soon cease being willing to spend 7BTC on a BJ like machine because the customer-base will eventually realize the risks and reality of likely not getting ROI on the device. So that'll change the manufacturer's calculus and they'll data-center mine instead.

Which makes sense. Eventually, the winners in mining will be those with industrial-efficiency power and heat management systems.

[dbbit]

perezoso is saying that customers will soon cease being willing to spend 7BTC on a BJ like machine because the customer-base will eventually realize the risks and reality of likely not getting ROI on the device.

It will always be easier and less risky for a manufacturer to sell a unit at the same price that they can get by mining themselves.

And if they do that, there will always be consumers willing to buy at that price that is willing to take on more of a gamble than a company run by a CEO would ever be willing to take on.

Companies don't institutionally make bets on horse races. People however do.

[User705]

But the action is moving elsewhere, my friend. If they aren't being written already, the news stories about the death of profitably mining-at-home will be written soon, and the broader public will eventually learn through the media what we have learned the harder way. the dumbs noobs will dwindle too when it becomes conventional wisdom that, like making pasta, it makes more sense to buy at the market.

I understand your point, but look at it from the ASIC manufacturer perspective: Let's say they just produced 10.000 BJ-like machines. They can sell them, for instance, 7 BTC each like popcorns, or they can build datacenter to mine themselves and gamble to mine 7.5-8, and realistically expect to mine 5-6 before the BTC price/power cost equilibrium. They can get 70.000 BTC before the end of the week, or risk to earn 50.000-80.000 BTC in the future. What would you do as a CEO?

There's another question of big datacenter built by the KnC. I highly doubt it will be in the KnC ownership, they are very probably building it for some large corporation. Same logic as in the paragraph above, why risk with their own money when there are big gorillas willing to risk and pay more then it's safe projected income? They are probably doing what is their core specialty - selling technology and knowledge, somebody else is dealing with financial risks, not ASIC manufacturers.

perezoso is saying that customers will soon cease being willing to spend 7BTC on a BJ like machine because the customer-base will eventually realize the risks and reality of likely not getting ROI on the device. So that'll change the manufacturer's calculus and they'll data-center mine instead.

Which makes sense. Eventually, the winners in mining will be those with industrial-efficiency power and heat management systems.

That's a maybe.  There are people with free power that value their setup/repair time much lower then it really is and they don't mind the heat.  Also you can use a miner as a lottery ticket by going solo.  There will always be someone willing to gamble on that and someone wanting to sell units for more then it costs to run them.

[allinvain]

Meh, doom and gloom. Either way no matter how you slice it KNCMiner customers got and will get better treatment than HashLast customers. HashFast screwed it's batch1 and likely bath2 customers sans souci sans lube. They sure know we like it rough.   mais oui oui!

[ninjarobot]

Meh, doom and gloom. Either way no matter how you slice it KNCMiner customers got and will get better treatment than HashLast customers. HashFast screwed it's batch1 and likely bath2 customers sans souci sans lube. They sure know we like it rough.   mais oui oui!

Well at least there is one company doing right by their Customers.

After the initial promises, HF has disappointed on every step along the way. I received my BJ 3 months late and even now it runs below spec (385GH/s) and unstable (have not been able to get it to run for 48h straight without needing hard RPi reboot/hotplugging). Funny thing is, my warranty has already expired.

MPP seems to have been another empty promise. I sure they are hard at work trying to figure out a way to get around this commitment. While no hard dates were given regarding delivery, the ROI calculation example certainly implied that the MPP modules would ship out after the 90 day MPP window. A window that closed last month.

The only good thing I can say about HF is Phil, and his forum support was not even part of his daily job.

[Legend21]

Does Hashfast update anything acording the batch 2 sierra's and babyjet, i mean its over 31 january... any refunds request or any sence of life on the side on Hashfast by someone jet? I mean i have send many request but no answer. nothing so far. i mean do we ever get a refund back? If they still ignore like this?? Overtrade their own TOS? what the hell is going on at this moment at Hashfast..??

[pmorici]

Looks like BFL's shady behavior is finally catching up with them...

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/02/new-lawsuit-against-bitcoin-miner-manufacturer-alleges-fraud-negligence/

[xyyoung]

This is what I got in 2/4 after I request a refund in replying their address confirmation of batch 2 sierra email on 1/29.
What is that means, refund or not?

 Hi,

We have received your request.

Thanks,


HashFast Support
support@hashfast.com

[cedivad]

Looks like BFL's shady behavior is finally catching up with them...

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/02/new-lawsuit-against-bitcoin-miner-manufacturer-alleges-fraud-negligence/

Interesting reading. Thanks, Pete (and good luck with your own lawsuit).

[pmorici]

Looks like BFL's shady behavior is finally catching up with them...

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/02/new-lawsuit-against-bitcoin-miner-manufacturer-alleges-fraud-negligence/

Interesting reading. Thanks, Pete (and good luck with your own lawsuit).

Also interesting is that the case was filed on Dec. 2nd 2013 and BFL has been aware of it since early Dec.  Also according to the court documents, they knew that their mailing address was wrong in early December which is why they weren't receiving notices when they were getting sued by that other guy in small claims court back in November.  Wasn't that one BFL guy in this thread throughout Dec. claiming he didn't know why they never heard about it?  He is either incredibly incompetent or a pathological liar.

[dropt]

incredibly incompetent or and a pathological liar.

FTFY

[cedivad]

Also according to the court documents, they knew that their mailing address was wrong in early December which is why they weren't receiving notices when they were getting sued by that other guy in small claims court back in November.

Related but unrelated, my lawyer's proxy tried to serve the documents to the address on the HashFast invoice yesterday, and failed. The number (175) simply doesn't exist.