NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[yeyo]

Finally a domain for blockexplorer!

Thanks.

[bithic]

Ya know what i was thinking today? of course you don't thats why I'm about to tell you.

I've been hearing a lot of criticism of bitcoin lately from the potential for altcoins to erode the trust in the concept of digital scarcity. Most notably the interview with adam back on lets talk bitcoin. By building decentralized exchange into the bottom protocol layer I think nxt can potentially restore this trust. Think about it, no other copy of nxt will ever have markets with as much market depth as nxt. Meaning their copy nxt will never has as much utility. Thus a copy of nxt is not "just as good as nxt". Since no copy of nxt will ever be "just as good as nxt" nxt can be thought of as scarce in a way that bitcoin can not.

I think this could be added to our list of "core arguments" in favor of nxt.

Couldn't some other crypto also implement a decentralized exchange into its protocol and compete to gain market depth based on that + some extra advantage that they claim to have?

Yea they could in theory. But it wouldn't be like just making a doge and having something thats more or less functionally equivalent to bitcoin. It would have to find some way to build that utility. In a situation where nxt had first mover advantage there wouldnt be any incentive for traders to want to operate in that alternative market when it had low depth, thus it would be difficult for it to ever achieve great depth. Not imposable but difficult. And if this altcoin did manage to pass nxt and become the main trading platform than the same argument would then apply to that coin. Meaning either way the faith in digital scarcity is restored. It doesnt need to be imposable to expand the money supply, only difficult. like gold its not imposable to get more of it, just hard.

This is article-worthy.  

[jl777]

Maybe there are many nodes but their solution to the byzantine generals problem is the same one that has been used for thousands of years, central authority. If the ripple foundation was ever compromised than ripple would not be able to continue without them. That is precisely the problem that bitcoin solved and ripple unsolved.

Please expand?

I'm not a Ripple expert, but I believe the keyword is "distributed". Big difference. If they could claim decentralized, they would. My understanding is that all transactions on the Ripple network depend on trust relationships between gateways, which act as the authority.

Here's an article I found helpful when trying to understand Ripple:
http://blog.coinsetter.com/2013/04/29/virtual-currency-trading-wars-bitcoin-versus-ripple-xrp/

Gateways deal with all the govt regulations and the issuing of IOUs into the ripple network. Once in the ripple network, all the trades, etc. are done via consensus of distributed rippled servers. The gateways are not directly involved in ripple network transactions other than redemptions.

Not sure of the number of non-RL servers, but my guess is around 100 total rippled servers are running.

James

Ah, so the trust relationship is between the ripple servers. Got it. So, if the server operators (Ripple Foundation, governments, banks?) ever collude to come to a consensus that supports a dishonest transaction, there would be no way to prove otherwise, because the transaction confirmation depends on their consensus rather than a decentralized processing of the blockchain?

So the difference between Ripple and all truly decentralized cryptocurrencies is that all Ripple users have to trust the people who control the servers (i.e. the Ripple Foundation). A true crypto like Bitcoin or Nxt is entirely trustless in operation.

I think there should be an article on this in the Nxt wiki, because once our decentralized exchange comes out, a lot of people will be asking what the benefit over Ripple is.

No, you have it not quite right.

The trust relationships are purely between gateways and the customers. This is the way Ripple avoids darkNXT equivalent. Not only does an account have to be funded with a minimal amount of XRP (currently 20 XRP min), in order to accept a specific IOU, the user has to specifically set a trust line for that specific issue from that specific issuer with a specific maximum.

It is a real pain in the ass, but it pretty much eliminates any chance of ending up sending something to the wrong address.

So, once you get your acct funded and establish a trust line (just filling out a form from your wallet), then you can receive the IOU. You make a fiat deposit to your gateway, then the fiat is exchanged for the IOU.

Similar to NXT's Asset Exchange at the high level, with some very big differences.

a) In ripple anybody can issue any asset, I think three characters is the limit for Asset name. So in essence each asset gets variants, eg. BTC.bitstamp, NXT.peercover, etc

b) Ripple requires minimal XRP balance to do anything, including establishing a trust line or making a trade offer, so really 30 XRP is the practical minimum.

c) Ripple requires a trust line to be established before anybody can receive that issue. However, you can directly purchase it from the orderbook without any trustline

d) There is this thing called "rippling", which allows the ripple network to automatically convert IOU from one issuer to another issuer of the same asset, if you have it enabled. Pretty nasty if your USD.bitstamp gets rippled into USD.snapswap! USD.snapswap trades at 10% discount to USD.bitstamp. There is even an evil bot in ripple land that searches for hapless newbies that allow rippling between USD.bitstamp and USD.snapswap and automatically converts it. The bot makes an immediate gain of 5% to 10%

So, if anybody is afraid about ripple competing with NXT, rest assured, it can't. Ripple is designed for mass market consumers to exchange their local currency to another currency, across the world.

As far as the servers go, unless some entity gets control of 51% of servers, I doubt any funny business is possible. Everything is in a public ledger. Ripple is basically firstgen as far as immunity from 51% attack goes, eg. not immune at all. Very unlikely ripple would attack its own network as they need it to expand so they can continue to add the 48 billion XRP stockpile into the network.

Nothing is perfect and ripple is no exception. It does have a lot of corporate backing and it does have some utility, so it won't go away. I just don't see it growing by leaps and bounds. That being said, XRP value could easily double or triple or lose 50%, as it is not very liquid at all. Total daily volume of XRP trades are less than $250,000/day for all issues in ripple.

This is why I keep saying Ripple's function is to be a gateway of fiat <-> crypto, including NXT.

James

Thanks for the explanation James! Any thoughts on writing something on this for the wiki? You could use what you just wrote as the base.

I don't mind if anybody just takes what I write. There are bounties for writing for wiki, but since I was strongly advocating for marketing budget, I don't feel right working for bounties from that. Of course, if nobody writes articles that are needed, I would write whatever I can help with no bounty needed. I want more people to earn bounties as it will get more people involved.

I am hoping for my share of white paper bounty though.

James

[salsacz]

Of course, if nobody writes articles that are needed, I would write whatever I can help with no bounty needed.

yeah.  I am currently on the page 7 of PoS Mining Myth Chapter, but still there are 7 more pages and one similar chapter. Oversourced


Long articles for our volunteers:

- Why is pure Proof of Stake in Nxt best solution for cryptocurrencies?

- How can you mine Nxt only with solar energy?

- How could decentralized exchanges change the world? (no Government, no censorship, USA, China...) - + decentralized messaging, DNS
 (Nxt and its Decentralized P2P exchanges with mixing services = totally untraceable, anonymous and uncontrolled by any government.)

- The 51% Attack - technical details, history of 51% attacks, how it ended, Nxt solution (is Nxt safer than other PoS currencies?) (Ghash's pool is risking Bitcoin's security again with 40% of the network's hashpower and no one is talking about it. Pools of PoW machines with enormous hashpower is Bitcoin's most pressing concern and biggest flaw right now. Nextcoin is the best answer to this. Why is it not being talked about more?)

- Nxt: gaming friendly currency (vs. Litecoin, a graphic cards killer) - Due to Litecoin's difficulty skyrocketing there is a global shortage of Graphic Cards, which piss off gamers tremendously and drive up the price for grahics cards. NXT solves this. (Uniqueorn's idea, maybe reserved for him..?)

- Nxt + Raspberry (+other similar platforms (Cubietruck)) (can be different articles, also short articles) (0 energy  forging package)

- Transparent Forging (very very technical, history of mining, comparisons)


Shorter articles/essays:
- Why should you invest in Nxt? (/Why should you invest in Nxt long term?)
- Why is Nxt so friendly currency?: (i) It *doesn't* have VC capital backing. ii) It *doesn't* have "slick sales guys*. iii) It *does* have smart devs and an increasing following.  iv) It *is* delivering its promises (more or less) on time.) - more about the community, people form all over the world, community funding, decentralized company - a world of free individuals who all believe in Nxt. 1200 pages in Bitcointalk


Future (short) articles: (now it's to soon):
- Who accepts Nxt as a payment? (+ fee in Nxt vs. Bitcoin vs. fiat (VISA))
- Nxt invites altcoins to host on it's blockchain
- Can be a new internet stored on Nxt's blockchain / DNS system?

[Anon136]

Ya know what i was thinking today? of course you don't thats why I'm about to tell you.

I've been hearing a lot of criticism of bitcoin lately from the potential for altcoins to erode the trust in the concept of digital scarcity. Most notably the interview with adam back on lets talk bitcoin. By building decentralized exchange into the bottom protocol layer I think nxt can potentially restore this trust. Think about it, no other copy of nxt will ever have markets with as much market depth as nxt. Meaning their copy nxt will never has as much utility. Thus a copy of nxt is not "just as good as nxt". Since no copy of nxt will ever be "just as good as nxt" nxt can be thought of as scarce in a way that bitcoin can not.

I think this could be added to our list of "core arguments" in favor of nxt.

Couldn't some other crypto also implement a decentralized exchange into its protocol and compete to gain market depth based on that + some extra advantage that they claim to have?

Yea they could in theory. But it wouldn't be like just making a doge and having something thats more or less functionally equivalent to bitcoin. It would have to find some way to build that utility. In a situation where nxt had first mover advantage there wouldnt be any incentive for traders to want to operate in that alternative market when it had low depth, thus it would be difficult for it to ever achieve great depth. Not imposable but difficult. And if this altcoin did manage to pass nxt and become the main trading platform than the same argument would then apply to that coin. Meaning either way the faith in digital scarcity is restored. It doesnt need to be imposable to expand the money supply, only difficult. like gold its not imposable to get more of it, just hard.

This is article-worthy.  

Yea i think it may be also. I'll have to think really hard for a while about whether its wrong or not.

[dzarmush]

Hey everyone,  our block explorer from nexern (who totally rocks, btw) now has an official name as a NXT Foundation participant and can be accessed at http://blocks.nxtcrypto.org/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=10

https://nextcoin.org/index.php/topic,3560.msg33601.html#msg33601

"Hi, I've registered several domains for NXT blockchain explorer site. When community decides which one is the best I can either free the others or use them for some different purpose. Some domains were already occupied (maybe some of you are holding them) so I had to choose from the best of the remaining.

http://nxtchain.net/
http://nxtlookup.com/
http://nxtblock.info/
http://nxtbc.info/

For now they are set to http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=100 and all of them are working."

I like nxtbc.info, it's the only name I was able to remember to find nxtberry's post on the forum.

[swartzfeger]

Big article at ZH on cryptocurrencies; they rarely cover anything other than BTC:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-01-28/ripples-ronpaulcoin-there-are-now-83-cryptocurrencies-world

[McDoxy]

Someone just dumped a huge amount of Nxt on BTER

[salsacz]

Someone just dumped a huge amount of Nxt on BTER

Just 1 Million and price is back.. this is a good sign

[btc2nxt]

NXT Asset Exchange is being released before April, right?

Yeah, the API is already being tested, should be soon.

April keeps coming up probably because of the importance of TF and I got confused there for a second.

I am rooting for the NXT Asset Exchange and nexern's client to be released by Friday!!!  

there is API  thread,  i and others post test information there.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=313082.280

[xibeijan]

NXT Asset Exchange is being released before April, right?

Yeah, the API is already being tested, should be soon.

April keeps coming up probably because of the importance of TF and I got confused there for a second.

I am rooting for the NXT Asset Exchange and nexern's client to be released by Friday!!!   

there is API  thread, and i and others post .

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=313082.280

Friday works for me!

[xyzzyx]

Hey everyone,  our block explorer from nexern (who totally rocks, btw) now has an official name as a NXT Foundation participant and can be accessed at http://blocks.nxtcrypto.org/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=10

https://nextcoin.org/index.php/topic,3560.msg33601.html#msg33601

"Hi, I've registered several domains for NXT blockchain explorer site. When community decides which one is the best I can either free the others or use them for some different purpose. Some domains were already occupied (maybe some of you are holding them) so I had to choose from the best of the remaining.

http://nxtchain.net/
http://nxtlookup.com/
http://nxtblock.info/
http://nxtbc.info/

For now they are set to http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=100 and all of them are working."

I like nxtbc.info, it's the only name I was able to remember to find nxtberry's post on the forum.

Heh.  I guess there's a push to get nexern's block explorer a fully qualified domain name.  

Well, here are the ones I got:

http://www.nxtexplorer.com/
http://www.nxtexplorer.org/
http://www.nxtexplorer.net/

<shrug>

[loopgate88]

Hey everyone,  our block explorer from nexern (who totally rocks, btw) now has an official name as a NXT Foundation participant and can be accessed at http://blocks.nxtcrypto.org/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=10

Totally rocks indeed. Nexern = high quality

[bithic]

Ya know what i was thinking today? of course you don't thats why I'm about to tell you.

I've been hearing a lot of criticism of bitcoin lately from the potential for altcoins to erode the trust in the concept of digital scarcity. Most notably the interview with adam back on lets talk bitcoin. By building decentralized exchange into the bottom protocol layer I think nxt can potentially restore this trust. Think about it, no other copy of nxt will ever have markets with as much market depth as nxt. Meaning their copy nxt will never has as much utility. Thus a copy of nxt is not "just as good as nxt". Since no copy of nxt will ever be "just as good as nxt" nxt can be thought of as scarce in a way that bitcoin can not.

I think this could be added to our list of "core arguments" in favor of nxt.

Couldn't some other crypto also implement a decentralized exchange into its protocol and compete to gain market depth based on that + some extra advantage that they claim to have?

Yea they could in theory. But it wouldn't be like just making a doge and having something thats more or less functionally equivalent to bitcoin. It would have to find some way to build that utility. In a situation where nxt had first mover advantage there wouldnt be any incentive for traders to want to operate in that alternative market when it had low depth, thus it would be difficult for it to ever achieve great depth. Not imposable but difficult. And if this altcoin did manage to pass nxt and become the main trading platform than the same argument would then apply to that coin. Meaning either way the faith in digital scarcity is restored. It doesnt need to be imposable to expand the money supply, only difficult. like gold its not imposable to get more of it, just hard.

This is article-worthy. 

Yea i think it may be also. I'll have to think really hard for a while about whether its wrong or not.

Whatever the case, statements like "Please stop making altcoins because they devalue Bitcoin" can only be seen as a greater incentive to create an altcoin. Whichever cryptos end up succeeding need to have so much network effect in their favor that simple clones wouldn't threaten them, and I think accessibility/useability features that can't be cloned (because they depend on a large userbase to be useful, not just simple speculation on value) are a key part of this.

I think the real worry for Bitcoin holders is the new wave of truly second generation cryptos like Nxt, because they actually do provide strong reasons for Bitcoin to be devalued. And the solution is simple: buy Nxt!

However, if your argument is true, then the future of cryptocurrencies/platforms will not be threatened by Bitcoin's demise. Just because the Ford Model-T is no longer competitive doesn't mean we should all give up on driving cars.

[salsacz]

What were Cuniculla and Meni thinking about Voting system?

In Cunicula's system, voting power is determined by combining (multiplicatively) your hashrate and stake. This would be problematic if small players could not compete effectively with large players. Though we are waiting on a formal mathematical proof, evidence to date suggests that small and large players would have an equal competitive footing. Simulations described in this thread [1] indicate that small players are competitive with large players because the multiplicative combination of hashrate and stake exhibits constant returns. Evidence in the thread suggests that these simulation results are accepted by both Cunicula and Meni.)

[Kattywampus]

***Action Item***

One of our priorities needs to be able to get Nxt into the hands of people without Bitcoin. We have a contact with Bitty, let's see if we can first drum up interest to support the initiative before going to them directly:

https://bittylicious.com/

Bittyylicious makes it extremely easy for JoeUser to purchase coins without having to go through Bitcoin first. We need people that are willing to sell their Nxt (you name the price) to customers that are interested in purchasing.

We’re looking for people that are based in the UK.

1. Please read the following links:

https://bittylicious.com/help/index.php/Sellers
https://bittylicious.com/help/index.php/Seller_Overview


2. When you’ve read the 2 links, please update the Google doc here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuputZyRQ5-5dF9iNmhpRUQ0cDg5LS1abFpwODRWbGc&usp=sharing


3. If you decide to just skim this message, please re-read #1 and #2


While the discussions concerning votes, logos etc.. are important, these are the actions that help us make BIG moves.

[salsacz]

NxtMyths 6: What is Nxt mining and why is Proof of Work bad?

After many weeks of collecting various materials about this topic:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwAGADgnQcrtcDhZTHRtSWNPUkU/edit?usp=sharing

- you can add comments

NXT Donations: 15003961341330858247
 


7. Rich get richer - coming soon

[salsacz]

BCNext had an idea about Nxt paper money for this purpose. The thread is around here somewhere.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=322935.msg3458087#msg3458087

[Anon136]

NxtMyths 6: What is Nxt mining and why is Proof of Work bad?

After many weeks of collecting various materials about this topic:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwAGADgnQcrtcDhZTHRtSWNPUkU/edit?usp=sharing

- you can add comments

NXT Donations: 15003961341330858247
 


7. Rich get richer - coming soon

I look forward to rich get richer because i think it may be a legit criticism. I would love for you to make a strong argument to the contrary. here is my line of thinking.

If you think through the forging process logically suppose you have 2 actors forging, one with 2million nxt and one with 1million nxt. The net balance of payments will tend to flow from the account with 2million nxt into the account with 1 million nxt only if the account with 2million nxt engages in greater than twice as many transactions as the account with 1 million nxt. This indicates that its not necessarily about how much nxt you have, how many transactions you make plays a big part. The problem is we see that studies on consumption taxes indicate that they tend to be highly regressive. The same logic applied here means that the rich would tend to get richer.

with that said sometimes life isnt about ideals. sometimes life is about picking the least bad option.

[Anon136]

NxtMyths 6: What is Nxt mining and why is Proof of Work bad?

After many weeks of collecting various materials about this topic:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwAGADgnQcrtcDhZTHRtSWNPUkU/edit?usp=sharing

- you can add comments

NXT Donations: 15003961341330858247
 


7. Rich get richer - coming soon

I look forward to rich get richer because i think it may be a legit criticism. I would love for you to make a strong argument to the contrary. here is my line of thinking.

If you think through the forging process logically suppose you have 2 actors forging, one with 2million nxt and one with 1million nxt. The net balance of payments will tend to flow from the account with 2million nxt into the account with 1 million nxt only if the account with 2million nxt engages in greater than twice as many transactions as the account with 1 million nxt. This indicates that its not necessarily about how much nxt you have, how many transactions you make plays a big part. The problem is we see that studies on consumption taxes indicate that they tend to be highly regressive. The same logic applied here means that the rich would tend to get richer.

with that said sometimes life isnt about ideals. sometimes life is about picking the least bad option.

Easy.  Everyone gets an equal rate of return on their investment.  At least you don't have banks and all other forms of middlemen skimming off the top.

Sure thats true but it isn't really relevant. The question is whether nxt will cause the rich to get richer. Not whether everyone will get an equal rate of return on their investment.