NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[okaynow]

The more NXT someone has, the more right he has to decide. It's natural. Someone with 50% ownership on a company has a 50% right to decide something..

this is wrong. It is only right in a corporate context. Nxt is not a corpotation, corporations are not people.

This is wrong. Why? Because a medium-sized holder (500k NXT) can do this for free in about one day. Just include all these transactions in his own block. No fees.

You need at least 1 nxt to open an account and 1 nxt to register a public key in order to secure your account before you bring in the 500K.

The large holder only has to do this once. What's to stop a large holder from making 10000 accounts now, and then having 10000 votes forever while everyone else who doesn't cheat only has 1?

If he does, he is no longer a large account holder. It would be  twice as expensive for a large account holder to do it more than once.

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[pinarello]

Daily Update of NXT Top Account distribution:




Data can be found here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtzyrOvYCfTTdEphdjBHNlNUMVZZUXd2RmlNVDRiUWc&usp=sharing

Is this including exchange accounts?

yes, and i see no reason in excluding them, as the exchange owners have FULL control of those NXT. (Voting and forging power)

you sure this is correct?

[jl777]

...we need a simple easy to understand answer that doesn't allow for it to be twisted into the NXT opponents mantra of "greedy founders".

James

Genesis Block

...it will only be "a simple easy to understand answer" for those that are truly interested in learning about the importance/characteristics of the Genesis Block in a 100% POS cryptocurrency...

Isn't "million to one ratio" easy to understand. If we are requiring people to become amateur cryptographers to understand the genesis block and the difficulties a PoS currency faces at genesis, then that will make NXT not understood buy 99.99% of people.

I claim that might not be in NXT best interests. We do want to grow beyond the bitcointalk universe, don't we?

James

[TwinWinNerD]

Daily Update of NXT Top Account distribution:




Data can be found here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtzyrOvYCfTTdEphdjBHNlNUMVZZUXd2RmlNVDRiUWc&usp=sharing

Is this including exchange accounts?

yes, and i see no reason in excluding them, as the exchange owners have FULL control of those NXT. (Voting and forging power)

you sure this is correct?

Well, i am not entirely sure what you mean. But: as with bitcoins: If you don't own the private key, the BTC (NXT) are not yours.

So ---> yes. And Dgex uses ALL NXT to forge, so there is that.

[Passion_ltc]

Newest NXTarea.com Feature: The Paper Wallet Creator





NXTarea.com proudly announce it's newest feature! The Paper Wallet Creator.

You can create Paper Wallets which you will print out, store them in your safe and open them in 1 year (when the price is $1 per NXT) or give them to friends.

We do not take the risks of managing your password. You have to enter it by hand later or enter it by yourself on your own computer.

You simply enter your Name, nickname or friend's name and the token (website: nxtarea.com) of the account and click on the button "Download Interior Design". The Exterior Design is available via the button "Download Exterior Design" (in grey).

I hope you like this small feature and that you may use it in the future. Suggestions to: contact@nxtarea.com

To the Paper Wallet Creator!


Thank you.

Your paper wallet add two more 00 in the nxt balance

Thanks! Forget it everytime. It should work now.

[nexern]

I was just looking at the Ethereum thread, and was wondering: couldn't NXT technically implement what Ethereum is trying to do in a parallel blockchain that allows turing-complete code to execute? IMO Ethereum is interesting, but isn't particularly innovative (not in the way transparent forging is).

A few advantages I see if this is possible within the NXT ecosystem:
1) NXT is already established. No need for massive development of the network, and thus no need for an expensive, over-complicated IPO to get it off the ground.
2) These scripts can interact with other aspects of the NXT ecosystem, which is admittedly much larger in scope than Ethereum will ever be. For example, you can send 0.00001 NXT to "Asset Merchant Rating" script, and you can rate a merchant you had a pleasant/negative experience with, and the program will keep track of it on the parallel blockchain without the bloat that may come if we used AM for this purpose.
3) Take advantage of all the idling CPU power in most nodes. Since NXT client itself does not require much resources to run, perhaps this will give all the miners from PoW-world something to focus on.
4) Provide an increase fees for people willing to participate in the parallel blockchain. People with RPi's can just stick to basic forging, while those running nodes on powerful PC's can additionally use their CPU power to run these programs.
5) NXT has already set the precedent for decentralized development (something I'm rather proud of, and I have to hand it to BCNext, that was a very smart decision), so people making a decentralized effort to create decentralized programs fits the theme rather well.

What's left is to figure out how to integrate a PoW system within a PoS system. But since c-f-b is already working on that, I assume it can be done.

sure, nxt will have the first DNA[1] latest end next month. while others talking we are coding.
DNA can also communicate with other DNA's via DNL[2], asking for additional functions and can
access external resources on demand while sandboxed and configurable to it's own special needs.
AM can be used as a direct DNA storage if the size fit's or chunk itself and recombine if
larger or even running on trusted nodes as a monolithical, remote executable code block.
client can scan AM for DNA resources or fetch the DNA directory from nodes via DNS[3] call
to get the latest jump and recombination list. DNAs can handle also thier own account, polling
the transactions and balance to verify service payments on activation.

[1] decentralized nxt agent
[2] decentralized nxt logic   (repository of pure function fragments, e.g api repo to access online quotes)
[3] decentralized nxt services

Wow! I did not know all this was going on already!

I'm excited to see the results, keep up the good work!

Awesome!

Any dates the community can look forward to?

first we need a rocksolid client. several devs working on this, myself included.
but as soon this is done, i start building distributed agents/applications.
so i guess latest end next month we have a running prototype doing usefull things.

[xyzzyx]

Upgrade to 5.10 now !!

Please.....

We have 73 blocks to go to 51000, and if u r still running an older NRS version there will be forking !
And not the good kind......


Thats about 73 minutes from now. Go.....




BTW: There is a node still running 4.7e.....oh, god....facepalm.

Less than 50 blocks to go as of this reply.

[Anon136]

Sure. We all understand that its not perfect. No one claims that it is. Sometimes you have to go with the least bad option. 1 human body 1 vote would be ideal for certain situations (like your example with a logo) but thats just not an option that we have available to us and any attempt to get an outcome closer to that out of a system like nxt will either entail more cost than benefit or be open to massive gaming.

It sure seems this way, but I hope that if we keep discussing it, we might eventually stumble upon some clever, unexpected solution.

Too early to give up

Its technically possible but its a bit like saying "if we keep discussing it we may eventually come up with a clever unexpected solution to make gravity repel us from earth rather than attract us to earth" which may be true also but i wouldn't hold my breath.

[Passion_ltc]

I call 0.00024431 our new High!!!   

Wrong. I sold for the highest high in history. Right after bter added it.



0.003

[starik69]

The more NXT someone has, the more right he has to decide. It's natural. Someone with 50% ownership on a company has a 50% right to decide something..

this is wrong. It is only right in a corporate context. Nxt is not a corpotation, corporations are not people.

Hm... It was started like corporation. So at what moment do you think it became corporation no more?

[pandaisftw]

The more NXT someone has, the more right he has to decide. It's natural. Someone with 50% ownership on a company has a 50% right to decide something..

this is wrong. It is only right in a corporate context. Nxt is not a corpotation, corporations are not people.

Right, but all people in NXT are stakeholders. It's not like we're making up laws for what people can and cannot do in their lives. VS is used to solve consensus as well as what direction NXT should take.

The large holder only has to do this once. What's to stop a large holder from making 10000 accounts now, and then having 10000 votes forever while everyone else who doesn't cheat only has 1?

If he does, he is no longer a large account holder. It would be  twice as expensive for a large account holder to do it more than once.

I thought we were concerned with voting power, not emptying large stakeholder's accounts? Even if he does this, and uses most of his money to do so, the fact is that he will still have 10000x the voting power over everyone else. Btw, you only need 3 NXT per puppet account (transfer fee + public key fee + 1 NXT to keep the stake). 30k NXT for 10k votes... that's actually really cheap for someone with 1mil NXT.

[jl777]

Sure. We all understand that its not perfect. No one claims that it is. Sometimes you have to go with the least bad option. 1 human body 1 vote would be ideal for certain situations (like your example with a logo) but thats just not an option that we have available to us and any attempt to get an outcome closer to that out of a system like nxt will either entail more cost than benefit or be open to massive gaming.

It sure seems this way, but I hope that if we keep discussing it, we might eventually stumble upon some clever, unexpected solution.

Too early to give up

Its technically possible but its a bit like saying "if we keep discussing it we may eventually come up with a clever unexpected solution to make gravity repel us from earth rather than attract us to earth" which may be true also but i wouldn't hold my breath.

I still stand by my prediction that we will never reach consensus on how to reach consensus.

James

[titan20]

About the voting system:

I have an idea. What if the user gets the choice if he is in or out. I don't care if the logo becomes black or white. But if there are important code changes proposed. The nxt user should decide if he accepts the code change or not.

So the user decides if he wants to be part of the new code, the old code, or maybe an alternative proposal. The community will be split with users on different branches and they will continue separately. The fittest/best branches will survive. So people will 'vote' for the proposal with in the back of their minds 'what is best for the network'.

Don't know if this has actually to do with the voting system, but what do you think?

[Isildur23]

Will somebody promote Nxt here ---> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=433319

[NxtChg]

Its technically possible but its a bit like saying "if we keep discussing it we may eventually come up with a clever unexpected solution to make gravity repel us from earth rather than attract us to earth" which may be true also but i wouldn't hold my breath.

That's a bit arrogant, but Ok, everybody is entitled to his own opinion.

I bet many smart people thought that decentralized money wasn't possible.

[S3MKi]

Hey, guys and gals, I would be interested in representing NXT at the Texas Bitcoin Conference on March 5-6.  I am in the American South not very far away (relatively speaking) and just checked, I can get a round trip jet ticket to Austin for under $300 if I book soon.  The conference fee is $275 until the end of January, $325 starting in February.  If the devs/community could back me for $1000 (currently around 10K NXT), I volunteer to cover this.  I will kick in 20% of my annual vacation time from my day job.  I am an aerospace engineer in real life, one thing I know how to do is make concise, organized presentations of  complex topics...

http://texasbitcoinconference.com

Of course!

+1

+1

+1

[salsacz]

Funding request
Most of us agreed with the decision to have a paid 1 minute sponsor spot at the Let's talk Bitcoin

There will be also 4 new shows with sposor spots, but I wouldn't like to spend too much NXT.

We decided for: 1 minute long ad (=sponsor spot) at the main show for 3 months for 290k NXT (we can pay in BTC)

One stakeholder is willing to pay 1/3 of the NXT. Would anyone join him?

Could we spare some unclaimed coins for this advertisement?

Who wants details, I will send him them.

NxtMarketing account:

2037401990853753795

more info: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg4744614#msg4744614 + https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg4744963#msg4744963

+1. I will chip in 1001 NXT, not much.

thanks you are now listed in the gdoc (in my signature and to the right)

[Damelon]

Holy crap, it's a Miami Summary!

[sparta_cuss]

...we need a simple easy to understand answer that doesn't allow for it to be twisted into the NXT opponents mantra of "greedy founders".

James

Here are a couple different appeals, not all of them congruent.

Appeal to potential investor greed:
The tone of the appeal needs to more more forward looking than backward looking, more focused on the possibilities to be enjoyed by investing now, rather than justifying BCNext's decisions. This appeal targets speculators.
"If you believe that NXT offers the possibility of significant value appreciation, then it might make sense for you buy a stake."
People who buy shares of Bekrshire Hathaway do so because they believe that its value will increase from this point forward more than other things they might invest in. But I don't think they spend a lot of time condemning Warren Buffet or any of the early adopters for having made enormous gains already.  

Appeal to development integrity:
This appeal targets long-term investors.
BCNext closed the funding period because he accumulated exactly the amount of startup funding that was necessary for the project. Taking on more funding would have, in his view, corrupted [this might not be the best word] the development process. The goal was always, and continues to be, developing the best cyptographic architecture. It is common these days for corporations to reward stockholders at the expense of sound product development principles. BCNext is old fashioned in that he always places the integrity of the product above the financial rewards of his investors. But, as we all know, if the product is excellent, the money will find it.

Do any of these appeals help us think about the audience we might be writing to, and the way we want to position the NXT product/process?

[NxtChg]

Don't know if this has actually to do with the voting system, but what do you think?

This "wild west" approach is inefficient. We should strive to do better.