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Author Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information  (Read 2760139 times)
bitcoinpaul
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March 08, 2014, 10:46:41 AM
 #41841

So it is about TPS (or TPM).

Some random thoughts:
Should we aim high and make TPS one of the big distinction form other crypto currencies? Are we realistic with such a high TPS - do we really need it? It could be a VISA alternative. Do we get there? Maybe only if great things are made on top of Nxt the next months. Will there be great things on top of Nxt if we are called the next ripple, which is mostly a negative conjunction in the crypto world? Do we ever get there when we cannot market the super-decentralized-idea, raspberryPis and nice things? Are we the business solution of crypto currencies? Do businesses need cryptos? The business world is still very hesitated in regards to crypto currencies - if we fail in the business world in the next month and decided today to go this route, Nxt would be dead? How realistic is it to establish Nxt big in the business world? Are there other possibilities with ultra hight TPS, if not business related? Can we aim for both worlds? Maybe 200 TPS? (Could parallel blockchains help?) Can we aim high with all the other stuff without hight TPS?

How important is ultra hight TPS? What are your opinions? What did I forgot?

I want a big discussion about this.
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salsacz
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March 08, 2014, 10:47:00 AM
 #41842


Ok, here's the current NXT distribution as of today.

https://i.imgur.com/Idzj6lQ.png

As you can see, it's pretty horrible. The whales rule almost 85% of the whole coin, and I guess most of them are the initial investors.

Excluding the ~85% of the total NXT the whales have, here's the distribution of the remaining 15%:

https://i.imgur.com/nSwqIuM.png

Many coins are on exchanges. People don't know how to use a client so they leave there NXT on them.

We don't know what the actual distribution is.
oh, come on, at least this how original stakeholder's money were distributed (I checked all outgoing transfers and guessed if it was a sell or moving)



calculations:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgAGADgnQcrtdHRrV3V3Z1lzOXVEMWtqdElUaEtqV1E#gid=13

Nxt tips: NXT-R67P-6BZ2-XWAK-8RHZR | Nxt forum | Nxt Academy | Donate for Nxt at the Universities // BTCD: RVMLrnxYYy7uy8YZo9FcGfXbk1ZMnNifdg
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March 08, 2014, 10:54:25 AM
 #41843

How important is ultra hight TPS? What are your opinions?

In my humble opinion it is very important as Ethereum is likely to be better at everything else that Nxt will do.

What they can't do is TF (without a re-design) so it is the thing that makes Nxt different (and appealing).

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

GPG Public Key | 1ciyam3htJit1feGa26p2wQ4aw6KFTejU
salsacz
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March 08, 2014, 10:59:12 AM
 #41844

All: Please watch this video about the future of Nxt and comment it (here), thank you very much!

http://youtu.be/RtTWUwRL9mQ


Nxt Decentralized Internet video - alfa version:
http://youtu.be/RtTWUwRL9mQ

(created between 20 Feb-8 March)

I would be very grateful for any comments and suggestions. It still needs some time, but it already can be commented

Based on the paper:
http://justpaste.it/decentralized-internet
(created between 12-18 Feb)

And good night, its almost 6 AM here Cheesy

Nxt tips: NXT-R67P-6BZ2-XWAK-8RHZR | Nxt forum | Nxt Academy | Donate for Nxt at the Universities // BTCD: RVMLrnxYYy7uy8YZo9FcGfXbk1ZMnNifdg
ChuckOne
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March 08, 2014, 11:04:05 AM
 #41845

Can we aim for both worlds? Maybe 200 TPS? (Could parallel blockchains help?)

Your node has to process the 60000 transactions per minute any way. It they reside in a parallel block or not does not matter.
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March 08, 2014, 11:06:28 AM
 #41846

How important is ultra hight TPS? What are your opinions?

In my humble opinion it is very important as Ethereum is likely to be better at everything else that Nxt will do.

What they can't do is TF (without a re-design) so it is the thing that makes Nxt different (and appealing).


someone can clarify me that is exactly ultra hight TPS and why is this in conflict with decentralization?
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March 08, 2014, 11:08:11 AM
 #41847

How important is ultra hight TPS? What are your opinions?

In my humble opinion it is very important as Ethereum is likely to be better at everything else that Nxt will do.

What they can't do is TF (without a re-design) so it is the thing that makes Nxt different (and appealing).


someone can clarify me that is exactly ultra hight TPS and why is this in conflict with decentralization?


Nodes need to be really powerful.
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March 08, 2014, 11:09:35 AM
 #41848

RFC: Parallel Chains concept

Only TL;DR version, coz noone would read a full one.

Master Chain

Contains only checkpoints of all slave chains. Checkpointing is done once a day and only when 1440 blocks r built on top of the corresponding slave chain. Master chain is never pruned. Growth rate is [32 bytes * numberOfSlaveChain] per day.

Slave Chains

Contains only 1 type of transactions. Different currencies can be implemented as different chains. Forgers can choose what chains to secure. The market balances TPS rate.

Migration plan

Create slave chains that implement all transactions types existing in Nxt. Add a new type for checkpointing. Reject attempts to include non-checkpointing transactions into the master chain.

Side-effects

The Chinese could use a separate currency inside their borders for very high TPS rates. Only checkpointing transactions have to bypass Great Firewall of China. Speculators provide currency exchange service - the business they love to do. NXTs become "tokens", users buy them for fiat to spend for fees, it's similar to prepaid coupons/tickets for provided services.
bitcoinpaul
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March 08, 2014, 11:10:07 AM
 #41849

How important is ultra hight TPS? What are your opinions?

In my humble opinion it is very important as Ethereum is likely to be better at everything else that Nxt will do.

What they can't do is TF (without a re-design) so it is the thing that makes Nxt different (and appealing).


What is great about TF? Doesn't the result count - who cares about the architecture?
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March 08, 2014, 11:10:58 AM
 #41850

Nodes need to be really powerful.

Think of "radio" and "video" - on a shitty internet connection (or with terribly slow hardware) you can probably listen to "radio" without a problem but you can't watch "video" (especially not HD stuff).

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

GPG Public Key | 1ciyam3htJit1feGa26p2wQ4aw6KFTejU
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March 08, 2014, 11:12:15 AM
 #41851

What is great about TF? Doesn't the result count - who cares about the architecture?

I don't think they thought of the "result" when they designed the internet back in the 60's - but am pretty sure they *did care a lot* about the architecture.

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

GPG Public Key | 1ciyam3htJit1feGa26p2wQ4aw6KFTejU
bitcoinpaul
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March 08, 2014, 11:13:28 AM
 #41852

What is great about TF? Doesn't the result count - who cares about the architecture?

I don't think they thought of the "result" when they designed the internet back in the 60's - but am pretty sure they *did care a lot* about the architecture.


Good point.

edit: Since you understand Nxt and TF now a lot better, could you state some bullet points about TF and why it is great?
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March 08, 2014, 11:18:07 AM
 #41853

Wikipedia should not be used to promote yourself. I hope the article gets deleted soon.

Nxt should be promoted in mainstream media. It needs to become notable. Once that is done, it will show up in Wikipedia -- without you doing anything.

I hate when Wikipedia is abused for self promotion

Sorry?
Have u ever looked at the article I wrote? >>> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nxt

I invested more then seven hours to write, translate and compare the different cryptocurrency-articles in the german wikipedia to strike the right note.
This was not just a copy of an early article! As you can see it is already reviewed and with some little changes now allowed to stay.
It is absolutely crazy that there was in this stadium no article! 

Do you really think somebody who is not interested in cryptocurrencies will write articles about it in wikipedia? No. People with interests have to start it and others will review them and so on... there is nothing wrong about starting articles of your own interests. This is integral in the logical wiki-structure.
ChuckOne
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March 08, 2014, 11:21:17 AM
 #41854

RFC: Parallel Chains concept

Only TL;DR version, coz noone would read a full one.

Master Chain

Contains only checkpoints of all slave chains. Checkpointing is done once a day and only when 1440 blocks r built on top of the corresponding slave chain. Master chain is never pruned. Growth rate is [32 bytes * numberOfSlaveChain] per day.

Slave Chains

Contains only 1 type of transactions. Different currencies can be implemented as different chains. Forgers can choose what chains to secure. The market balances TPS rate.

Migration plan

Create slave chains that implement all transactions types existing in Nxt. Add a new type for checkpointing. Reject attempts to include non-checkpointing transactions into the master chain.

Side-effects

The Chinese could use a separate currency inside their borders for very high TPS rates. Only checkpointing transactions have to bypass Great Firewall of China. Speculators provide currency exchange service - the business they love to do. NXTs become "tokens", users buy them for fiat to spend for fees, it's similar to prepaid coupons/tickets for provided services.

How do we prevent bloating the master chain?

New chains need to be registered at the master chain for a fee.
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March 08, 2014, 11:24:48 AM
 #41855

How do we prevent bloating the master chain?

New chains need to be registered at the master chain for a fee.

Ok
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March 08, 2014, 11:25:22 AM
 #41856

How do we prevent bloating the master chain?

New chains need to be registered at the master chain for a fee.

Seems like you answered your own question. Smiley

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

GPG Public Key | 1ciyam3htJit1feGa26p2wQ4aw6KFTejU
bitcoinpaul
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March 08, 2014, 11:31:16 AM
 #41857

How do we prevent bloating the master chain?

New chains need to be registered at the master chain for a fee.

Seems like you answered your own question. Smiley


So the upcoming forgers (with TF in place) will be able to build many cheap parallel chains, because they know when to register?
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March 08, 2014, 11:38:15 AM
 #41858

RFC: Parallel Chains concept

Only TL;DR version, coz noone would read a full one.

Master Chain

Contains only checkpoints of all slave chains. Checkpointing is done once a day and only when 1440 blocks r built on top of the corresponding slave chain. Master chain is never pruned. Growth rate is [32 bytes * numberOfSlaveChain] per day.

Slave Chains

Contains only 1 type of transactions. Different currencies can be implemented as different chains. Forgers can choose what chains to secure. The market balances TPS rate.

Migration plan

Create slave chains that implement all transactions types existing in Nxt. Add a new type for checkpointing. Reject attempts to include non-checkpointing transactions into the master chain.

Side-effects

The Chinese could use a separate currency inside their borders for very high TPS rates. Only checkpointing transactions have to bypass Great Firewall of China. Speculators provide currency exchange service - the business they love to do. NXTs become "tokens", users buy them for fiat to spend for fees, it's similar to prepaid coupons/tickets for provided services.

Awesome!

Quick questions:

1) Are these parallel chains fully customizable? What I mean by is that can the parallel chain creator specify fees (even set them to zero) or block timer? Can these chains be changed in such a way that Aliases can expire and/or AM's not expire? I assume this should be possible as long as people are willing to deal with the changes and secure the parallel chain.
2) How can currencies be traded across chains? Will all chains use NXT as the "base" currency?

NXT: 13095091276527367030
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March 08, 2014, 11:41:26 AM
 #41859

How do we prevent bloating the master chain?

New chains need to be registered at the master chain for a fee.

Seems like you answered your own question. Smiley


So the upcoming forgers (with TF in place) will be able to build many cheap parallel chains, because they know when to register?

Now that I think about it, parallel chains is a very nice way to achieve the 1000 TPS goal. It is highly unlikely that everyone needs to use all the parallel chains at once, so by providing many, many chains, people would only have to secure the ones they are interested in. NXT as a whole could have 1000 TPS, but a regular user would probably only need to secure at most 100 TPS on the chains he/she is interested in.

NXT: 13095091276527367030
ChuckOne
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March 08, 2014, 11:41:31 AM
 #41860

How do we prevent bloating the master chain?

New chains need to be registered at the master chain for a fee.

Seems like you answered your own question. Smiley


Not quite yet. Parallel chains can pretend to have reached 1440 blocks and further bloat the master chain.

What restrictions do we impose on the slave chains, that can be verified without looking at the slave chain itself?
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