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Author Topic: [DEAD] DeepBit.net PPS+Prop,instant payouts, we pay for INVALID BLOCKS too  (Read 1453300 times)
leepfrog
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June 06, 2011, 12:33:52 AM
 #2461

Or to the people trying to get access to the pool/the pools servers.
To stress it again: it is irrelevant if the pool owner or external people are the bad guys. What matters is the existence of an instance with over 50% hashing power - no matter what the original intensions might be.

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June 06, 2011, 12:38:44 AM
 #2462

Or to the people trying to get access to the pool/the pools servers.
To stress it again: it is irrelevant if the pool owner or external people are the bad guys. What matters is the existence of an instance with over 50% hashing power - no matter what the original intensions might be.
Ah, you're not urging Tycho to close registrations, alright.
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June 06, 2011, 12:42:42 AM
 #2463

49% of $100M is $49M. 51% of 0 is 0.

Speed kills...greed kills.
Veldy
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June 06, 2011, 12:55:03 AM
 #2464

So with the difficulty increases will mining at some point become completely unprofitable no matter how much mh/s or gh/s you have and we all will have to stop? Or does it always even out no matter what the difficulty is? If it does end up unprofitable for everyone will bitcoins die out, or do you guys/gals that have been doing this for a while know there will always be a profit in this?

If people keep building giant expensive rigs, the difficulty will rise quickly until they are the average [meaning that they are not making more than what they started with if they merely kept up with difficulty.  Long story short, is that, yes, if enough people continue to put massive mining power online [often with significant debt], it may make the more average miner become small potatoes and cause them to potentially drop out [depends on the price of the bitcoin I guess] and many who invested a lot of money will become the new "average Joe" and potentially never earn back what they put into mining.

Yes, it is a possibility.  Pretty much anything is right now though.

Also - I believe you should have posted this in a different thread.

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June 06, 2011, 12:56:49 AM
 #2465

49% of $100M is $49M. 51% of 0 is 0.

Speed kills...greed kills.

That was a completely worthless analogy  Huh.  0 is completely invalid, because simply put, you are not mining so it doesn't matter what the percentage fee is.

I pointed out before, 3% is too high for you, then go somewhere else.  However, Tycho has charged 3% all along and he is running the largest pool there is.  You can't argue with facts.  The market can take care of itself in matters such as this.

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[Tycho]
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June 06, 2011, 01:06:27 AM
 #2466

Well, looks like I have to repeat my opinion again.

1. I care about my users and I will do my best to offer the best service. Closed registration doesn't looks like the part of best service to me.

2. You are saying that in case of attack people will see that bitcoins are not reliable and the bitcoin value will drop, that's why you want me to do something.
But this fact itself means that all the bitcoin security depends on the free will of ONE man ? Are you really think it is that insecure ?

Welcome to my bitcoin mining pool: https://deepbit.net - Both payment schemes (including PPS), instant payout, no invalid blocks !
ICBIT Trading platform : USD/BTC futures trading, Bitcoin difficulty futures (NEW!). Third year in bitcoin business.
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June 06, 2011, 01:07:58 AM
 #2467

Well, looks like I have to repeat my opinion again.

1. I care about my users and I will do my best to offer the best service. Closed registration doesn't looks like the part of best service to me.

2. You are saying that in case of attack people will see that bitcoins are not reliable and the bitcoin value will drop, that's why you want me to do something.
But this fact itself means that all the bitcoin security depends on the free will of ONE man ? Are you really think it is that insecure ?

This is why I left Deepbit.

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June 06, 2011, 03:02:49 AM
 #2468

Split the pool in two or more bells is my suggestion.

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June 06, 2011, 03:05:32 AM
 #2469

49% of $100M is $49M. 51% of 0 is 0.

Speed kills...greed kills.

That was a completely worthless analogy  Huh.  0 is completely invalid, because simply put, you are not mining so it doesn't matter what the percentage fee is.

I pointed out before, 3% is too high for you, then go somewhere else.  However, Tycho has charged 3% all along and he is running the largest pool there is.  You can't argue with facts.  The market can take care of itself in matters such as this.

Notice I didn't quote the percent as a proportion of the fee you refer to (or actually anything else). I'll make it simple for you, since analogies aren't your strong suit. My point serves to highlight what pool stands to gain and lose (and absolutely nothing to do with fees. Trust > fees at this point).  Through whatever means, critical failure = violation of trust = corruption of concept = game over. Majority block/mining power is a known weakness. Known.

His intentions to "serve his users" maybe be good, but...

Maybe this cliche helps: The road to hell was paved with good intentions. In this case, it was also done by a road crew making 138 BTC/day with a pool script.

Then again, if he (and we) doesn't do it, some bank's ASIC clusters eventually will.
carlo
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June 06, 2011, 03:15:17 AM
 #2470

Hello,

is there a php script to access the api stats ?

I started to put some stats of miners on my website, also wanna do some more statistics with the values i get.

I would be very happy if i get some more examples and ideas, cause im getting a bit frustrated right now Sad

Thx for your help.
cheers
carlo
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June 06, 2011, 04:11:01 AM
 #2471

is there a php script to access the api stats ?
I started to put some stats of miners on my website, also wanna do some more statistics with the values i get.
I would be very happy if i get some more examples and ideas, cause im getting a bit frustrated right now Sad
I would recommend using CURL for getting the API data and JSON parser for parsing it. Both are available as PHP extensions. Also you may use even easier ways to fetch the data.

Can you be more specific about the problems with processing the API reply ?

Welcome to my bitcoin mining pool: https://deepbit.net - Both payment schemes (including PPS), instant payout, no invalid blocks !
ICBIT Trading platform : USD/BTC futures trading, Bitcoin difficulty futures (NEW!). Third year in bitcoin business.
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June 06, 2011, 04:13:34 AM
 #2472

thx for you ultra fast reply as always Smiley

Do you sleep ? ^^

Its not your fault, im just to stupid to get curl working the right way ... i stoped now for a moment cause getting frustrated.

Maybe sombody share his php script with me, need some examples cause im not the best programmer as you can see Smiley

cheers
caro
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June 06, 2011, 04:24:48 AM
 #2473

Do you sleep ? ^^
No.

Its not your fault, im just to stupid to get curl working the right way ... i stoped now for a moment cause getting frustrated.
You can look at PHP site for good examples and docs.
Using CURL to get a page:
http://php.net/manual/en/curl.examples-basic.php
(you don't need the file writing part)

If you have troubles with CURL, you can try to use
http://php.net/manual/ru/function.file-get-contents.php

Welcome to my bitcoin mining pool: https://deepbit.net - Both payment schemes (including PPS), instant payout, no invalid blocks !
ICBIT Trading platform : USD/BTC futures trading, Bitcoin difficulty futures (NEW!). Third year in bitcoin business.
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June 06, 2011, 04:48:17 AM
 #2474

yeah got it ... thx for giving me some more motivation.
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June 06, 2011, 04:54:06 AM
 #2475

yeah got it ... thx for giving me some more motivation.


I've been playing around with that stuff too. Also APIs on mtgox.com and bitcoincharts.com  PM me if you run into trouble.

Need a backup pool?   *Link Removed*
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June 06, 2011, 04:57:25 AM
 #2476

yeah nice, also interested in those stats.

maybe you can send me your scripts?

edit:
is it possible to reset the stats (shares, stale) from an external webserver ?
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June 06, 2011, 05:11:45 AM
 #2477

is it possible to reset the stats (shares, stale) from an external webserver ?
There is no such function yet, but it may be added.

Welcome to my bitcoin mining pool: https://deepbit.net - Both payment schemes (including PPS), instant payout, no invalid blocks !
ICBIT Trading platform : USD/BTC futures trading, Bitcoin difficulty futures (NEW!). Third year in bitcoin business.
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June 06, 2011, 05:29:30 AM
 #2478

hey guys, after hashing for a few days solo I decided to switch to deepbit.net;

I have to say it was exceptionally easy to switch over my GPUs so many thanks to Tycho for the help (rich fucker hehe)

Anyway; How do I get my CPU mining? I have the official bitcoin program running solo still, since switching my poclbm clients was so easy..

edit: also I have converted my entire appartment into a bitcoin farm (I am deadly serious) I have even setup an LCD on a mounting bracket next do my apartment door so I can see my stats 24/7 from anywhere in the room

edit2: I am officially going to make a living 24/7 mining. This is awesome. I also have a FIXED powerbill here (@ $10/14 days) which is essentially FREE POWER. WOOT. I have studied my General Tenancy Agreement and Communal rules and am OK to proceed - a website or application that details my entire statistics for my internal network is what I need - anyone reccomend something?

edit3: I read that longpolling eliminates stale shares, I believe deepbit has this? yet I am still getting stale shares? whats up with that?

Cheers everyone

Overclocking = money? Greatest full time hobby ever!
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Veldy
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June 06, 2011, 05:34:31 AM
 #2479

Split the pool in two or more bells is my suggestion.

Do you understand how the attack works?  

Further, he has no real control about that.  Who does he kick out of one pool?  Will they move to the new pool?  If they do, so what; he is still the operator.  Nothing solved.

What has changed recently, however is that instead of just two dominant pools, there are four major pools [one very new] and further, the attack you are worried about can only be theoretically executed when > than 50% of the hashing power of the network is in the hands of the attacker.  In practice, to earn any significant money before discovered, the percentage would have to be a bit greater than 50%, not just barely over 50%.  How much more?  I cannot say.  

What I can say is that the scenario that spike deepbit above 50% when I was worried about it is much more difficult to orchestrate [but not impossible] due to the increased number of pools.  Last check shows deepbit at perhaps 35% of the total network hashing power (rough estimate based on the pie chart ... the numbers are there if you want an exact amount).  

Now what you should worry about is why does the block/hour count seem to increase dramatically a day or two before the next difficulty increase?  Somebody is putting massive hardware online and apparently strategically.  Frankly, I don't think that is good for the network as it will normalize with difficulty increases, but drive smaller miners out at some point leaving heavy hitters spending loads of electricity for a low number of bitcoins [so, they only way for these heavy hitters to remain profitable is to drive up the price of the bitcoin through trading ... a potential bubble].  I REALLY would like if somebody was able to do the forensics to discover who these people are.  Are they game changers [new custom hardware] or just very large number of GPUs [still not good].  Honest individual doing stupid things with enough money to burn that they don't care, or are they using bitcoin to take what they can and go.  I am a cynic and thus expect the latter.  Also, it seems that financial institutions have a stake in destroying bitcoin and so does nearly every government on Earth that collects income taxes.  China comes to mind as a potential player.  Big banks another.  Digital mercenaries working in the interest of the federal reserve and IRS of the USA also come to mind (they don't even have to pay, since the large miner(s) could manipulate the market price fairly easily I think).  AMD has a big stake as well, since they sell most of the cards used in mining; however they would be under obvious scrutiny for market manipulation.  AMD is probably quite innocent in the matter, but enough money drives the sane in .... insane.  Market cap of BTC [if all sold at the going rate] is $0.12BILLION ..or if you like $121MILLION better, then use that.  Corruption and market manipulation become a much more likely reality as that number grows.

At the moment, I think tearing apart the worth of the bitcoin economy is a bigger threat than the double spending attack [but of course, watch out for all avenues].  

For those that dove into bitcoin mining on credit [building several large rigs], you took a huge risk of getting burned (obvious some have already made out like bandits, but most ... I doubt it).

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June 06, 2011, 05:38:27 AM
 #2480

hey guys, after hashing for a few days solo I decided to switch to deepbit.net;

I have to say it was exceptionally easy to switch over my GPUs so many thanks to Tycho for the help (rich fucker hehe)

Anyway; How do I get my CPU mining? I have the official bitcoin program running solo still, since switching my poclbm clients was so easy..

edit: also I have converted my entire appartment into a bitcoin farm (I am deadly serious) I have even setup an LCD on a mounting bracket next do my apartment door so I can see my stats 24/7 from anywhere in the room

edit2: I am officially going to make a living 24/7 mining. This is awesome. I also have a FIXED powerbill here (@ $10/14 days) which is essentially FREE POWER. WOOT. I have studied my General Tenancy Agreement and Communal rules and am OK to proceed - a website or application that details my entire statistics for my internal network is what I need - anyone reccomend something?

edit3: I read that longpolling eliminates stale shares, I believe deepbit has this? yet I am still getting stale shares? whats up with that?

Cheers everyone

I hope you didn't CHARGE all that equipment.  This could sky rocket and you could win.  This could crumble and you could lose it all.  It could go stagnant and you won't earn enough to live on (as opposed to your investment).  Far more dangerous than day trading used to be when people jumped from windows after losing everything.  Don't be one of them.

If you have found my post helpful, please donate what you feel it is worth: 18vaZ4K62WiL6W2Qoj9AE1cerfCHRaUW4x
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