rpietila Wall Observer - the Quality TA Thread ;)

[coinits]

Did any of you stop to think that Satoshi = Sir Richard?

[1714491444]

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[Biodom]

Sir Richard is about to change bitcoin forever. Price to the moon!

https://bitcoinfoundation.org/press-releases/press-release-october-7-2014-bitcoin-foundation-financial-standards-working-group-leads-the-way-for-mainstream-bitcoin-adoption-2/

"Currencies today operate with two decimal spaces to the right ($1.00). In Bitcoin, there are currently eight so one could theoretically pay you 0.00000001 or one hundred-millionth of a Bitcoin. Not only is this confusing for consumers, it does not fit in existing systems and software for accounting practices."

So the standard would already have a rounding error of at least $1.80 (0.005 bitcoins). As soon as we go up again, that will only increase...

It seems that you are getting the unit wrong. 

The author is NOT talking about going back 3 decimal places, but instead he is talking about going back 6 decimal places.  Currently, if my calculations are correct, 6 decimal places would cause a $364.85 per BTC valuation to have an exchange price of $.00036485 per XBT - or $1 would buy you 274.09 XBTs which is 27,409 satoshis.

yep, this thread already had this discussion starting at page 278 and later
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=400235.msg9124067#msg9124067

[JayJuanGee]

Sir Richard is about to change bitcoin forever. Price to the moon!

https://bitcoinfoundation.org/press-releases/press-release-october-7-2014-bitcoin-foundation-financial-standards-working-group-leads-the-way-for-mainstream-bitcoin-adoption-2/

"Currencies today operate with two decimal spaces to the right ($1.00). In Bitcoin, there are currently eight so one could theoretically pay you 0.00000001 or one hundred-millionth of a Bitcoin. Not only is this confusing for consumers, it does not fit in existing systems and software for accounting practices."

So the standard would already have a rounding error of at least $1.80 (0.005 bitcoins). As soon as we go up again, that will only increase...

It seems that you are getting the unit wrong.  

The author is NOT talking about going back 3 decimal places, but instead he is talking about going back 6 decimal places.  Currently, if my calculations are correct, 6 decimal places would cause a $364.85 per BTC valuation to have an exchange price of $.00036485 per XBT - or $1 would buy you 274.09 XBTs which is 27,409 satoshis.

yep, this thread already had this discussion starting at page 278 and later
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=400235.msg9124067#msg9124067

Yes, I had already read through the earlier posts of this thread, but I was attempting to respond to the contents of mmortal03's above post... b/c it seems to me that when he referred to a "rounding error" (as bolded above) he seems to have gotten the calculations wrong and even the concept wrong - b/c moving to a smaller bitcoin unit should lessen, rather than increase, the severity of any rounding error that might exist.

[nioc]

Did any of you stop to think that Satoshi = Sir Richard?

no


there should be no decimals, only whole numbers

When btc is a billion $, (or whatever, I can't count), decimals can be added

[JayJuanGee]

Did any of you stop to think that Satoshi = Sir Richard?

no


there should be no decimals, only whole numbers

When btc is a billion $, (or whatever, I can't count), decimals can be added

So you want us to work from satoshis.  Personally, I believe that you are the exception, and most people are good with two decimal places b/c we are used to it, and we can easily identify two digits behind the decimal without developing a major brain fart.

[cbeast]

Did anyone stop to think Satoshi is Sir Paul? After all, The Beatles were masters at encrypting satanic messages into popular releases and everyone knows that Bitcoin is the one world money that ends the world. The Walrus is somehow the key to unravel the whole conspiracy.

[CMMPro]

It could be Sir Elton....because he is fabulous and so is bitcoin.

[coinits]

It's Sir Richard. He builds spaceships to take BTC to the moon.

[indiemax]

It could be Sir Elton....because he is fabulous and so is bitcoin.

That sounds a bit gay,oh wait a sec....................

[spooderman]

Did any of you stop to think that Satoshi = Sir Richard?

yes, and then I started thinking again

[Biodom]

Did any of you stop to think that Satoshi = Sir Richard?

yes, and then I started thinking again

One thing is clear, satoshi is either british or someone educated or living in Great Britain.
Why? Because his software have reference to the "Chancellor of Exchequer" and second bailout of british banks.
Nobody outside of UK even know about this title (position).

[explorer]

Did any of you stop to think that Satoshi = Sir Richard?

yes, and then I started thinking again

One thing is clear, satoshi is either british or someone educated or living in Great Britain.
Why? Because his software have reference to the "Chancellor of Exchequer" and second bailout of british banks.
Nobody outside of UK even know about this title (position).

You've done a survey, have you?   

[nioc]

Did any of you stop to think that Satoshi = Sir Richard?

no


there should be no decimals, only whole numbers

When btc is a billion $, (or whatever, I can't count), decimals can be added

So you want us to work from satoshis.  Personally, I believe that you are the exception, and most people are good with two decimal places b/c we are used to it, and we can easily identify two digits behind the decimal without developing a major brain fart.

So it seems that we agree on two digits beyond the decimal.  It's just a matter of how it gets implemented.  I wasn't being totally serious in my answer but I guess my point was not to do it in a way that necessitates the need to keep making changes. 

Now that we have solved that, how about world peace?


BTW I just talked to Satoshi and he thinks that everybody here speculating about his identity is really quite amusing.

[BombaUcigasa]

Did any of you stop to think that Satoshi = Sir Richard?

yes, and then I started thinking again

One thing is clear, satoshi is either british or someone educated or living in Great Britain.
Why? Because his software have reference to the "Chancellor of Exchequer" and second bailout of british banks.
Nobody outside of UK even know about this title (position).

Why did he live on the East Coast then? Only someone posting in the afternoon from the USA matches his post dates.

[manfred]

Did any of you stop to think that Satoshi = Sir Richard?

yes, and then I started thinking again

One thing is clear, satoshi is either british or someone educated or living in Great Britain.
Why? Because his software have reference to the "Chancellor of Exchequer" and second bailout of british banks.
Nobody outside of UK even know about this title (position).

Why did he live on the East Coast then? Only someone posting in the afternoon from the USA matches his post dates.

His post times UTC (GMT)

[NewLiberty]

Did any of you stop to think that Satoshi = Sir Richard?

yes, and then I started thinking again

One thing is clear, satoshi is either british or someone educated or living in Great Britain.
Why? Because his software have reference to the "Chancellor of Exchequer" and second bailout of british banks.
Nobody outside of UK even know about this title (position).

Illogical (by denial of antecedent), on account of I knew about the "Chancellor of Exchequer" and the bailout, I am American, and I am also not Satoshi.  This is insufficiently arcane knowledge to qualify nationality.
I am merely well traveled and well read, as also is Satoshi.

Most folks who have made a study of financial history also know that Winston Churchill held this position and attempted to return GB to a gold standard.
Unfortunately a market based gold standard (a gold coin standard) was not attempted, and so this effort was doomed to fail as governments are not good at managing monetary policy when citizens are able to vote the treasure be handed on them without paying for it (thanks to Keynes, gold coin standards are considered old fashioned).

Ecuador is about to face this same issue with their government created crypto-currency.
I wish them luck and wisdom, it will be a great challenge for them.

Please stop trying to dox Satoshi.   It is unbecoming of you, as well as rude and disrespectful.

[Biodom]

Did any of you stop to think that Satoshi = Sir Richard?

yes, and then I started thinking again

One thing is clear, satoshi is either british or someone educated or living in Great Britain.
Why? Because his software have reference to the "Chancellor of Exchequer" and second bailout of british banks.
Nobody outside of UK even know about this title (position).

Illogical (by denial of antecedent), on account of I knew about the "Chancellor of Exchequer" and the bailout, I am American, and I am also not Satoshi.  This is insufficiently arcane knowledge to qualify nationality.
I am merely well traveled and well read, as also is Satoshi.

Most folks who have made a study of financial history also know that Winston Churchill held this position and attempted to return GB to a gold standard.
Unfortunately a market based gold standard (a gold coin standard) was not attempted, and so this effort was doomed to fail as governments are not good at managing monetary policy when citizens are able to vote the treasure be handed on them without paying for it (thanks to Keynes, gold coin standards are considered old fashioned).

Ecuador is about to face this same issue with their government created crypto-currency.
I wish them luck and wisdom, it will be a great challenge for them.

Please stop trying to dox Satoshi.   It is unbecoming of you, as well as rude and disrespectful.

Nobody is trying to dox satoshi-at least I am not.
two points:
1. I did not say that he is not american, I merely suggested that he might have either lived in Britain for a while or was educated there.
2. With all due respect, for non-British people, the "Chancellor of Exchequer" actions and the bailout of british banks were NOT the focal points of the fiscal crisis IF you lived outside of Britain and/or if a majority of your interests were outside of UK. In US the "epicenter" was Lehman, followed up by a manic September plus Citibank and AIG rescue. So, this argument is moot, in my mind. A small correction: when I said "nobody' I meant "only a few people"-this would be more accurate. Personally, I also knew it.
3. The suggestion stands, and I don't see any harm in it whatsoever. If he did not want people talking about it, then why include this note in the SOFTWARE?

BTW, the price of BTC is currently below the mining cost for a majority of miners if you include the price of equipment as well.
If it stays this way, network will crash hard (hashing will decline ~50%) soon.

[JayJuanGee]

Did any of you stop to think that Satoshi = Sir Richard?

no


there should be no decimals, only whole numbers

When btc is a billion $, (or whatever, I can't count), decimals can be added

So you want us to work from satoshis.  Personally, I believe that you are the exception, and most people are good with two decimal places b/c we are used to it, and we can easily identify two digits behind the decimal without developing a major brain fart.

So it seems that we agree on two digits beyond the decimal.  It's just a matter of how it gets implemented.  I wasn't being totally serious in my answer but I guess my point was not to do it in a way that necessitates the need to keep making changes.  

Now that we have solved that, how about world peace?


BTW I just talked to Satoshi and he thinks that everybody here speculating about his identity is really quite amusing.

It seems that you are never really going to get away without making some kind of change, at least under the hood... Bitcoins are not real physical bits, anyhow, they are digital, so why does it matter if there is change?   

I can pay for a cup of coffee or an iphone or a motorcycle or a lambo or a yaht... there are so many different valuations, and NOT matter what there is going to be change.... or one person transmits BTC to another person and then the second person transmits back.  Even the technical-side explanations of the transmittals of bitcoin does NOT cause us to rest b/c bitcoin is anything but simple.    NONETHELESS, I believe that I get your point (and we seem to agree about making interface matters easier for the user).

For example, let's say you have 1 bitcoin in your bitcoin wallet, and you come over to my place because you want to buy my bicycle for .7 bitcoin.  I tell you that I am not taking anything less than .8btc, and in the end we agree upon .75btc.  Apparently, even the transmission of that .75BTC from you to me does NOT cause one straight forward transmission of the btc, but instead causes several transmissions, and I do NOT even know how to explain it (or whether I understand it, but so long as I get the .75BTC and you still have .25BTC in your wallet, then what does it matter?).  

I realize that the transmission of BTC and a lot of aspects of BTC are complicated beyond my ability to understand them.  Further, I am NOT sure whether as an end user I need to understand the technicalities as long as I am easily able to use the system to accomplish my objectives of storing and/or transmitting value and I can understand the value... and I believe part of the point to convert from the BTC to the XBT is to make the whole value concept more concrete for the masses, even though making a change to the unit does not really change anything about the fundamental technicalities of either system.

 Anyhow, my point is that it seems inevitable that some change is going to need to be made in the process of making BTC transactions (at least under the hood).. even though maybe NOT at the user consciousness level.. and the place of the decimal would NOT really change the fundamentals.

[BTCtrader71]

BTW, the price of BTC is currently below the mining cost for a majority of miners if you include the price of equipment as well.
If it stays this way, network will crash hard (hashing will decline ~50%) soon.

Non sequitur. The equipment costs will not come into play the way you suggest. No one is going to let mining rigs sit idle unless the cost of electricity (plus whatever other maintenance costs exist) is greater than the yield in bitcoin. The high purchase price of equipment would mean they won't be buying any more. But it would not make them turn off what they already have.

[Biodom]

BTW, the price of BTC is currently below the mining cost for a majority of miners if you include the price of equipment as well.
If it stays this way, network will crash hard (hashing will decline ~50%) soon.

Non sequitur. The equipment costs will not come into play the way you suggest. No one is going to let mining rigs sit idle unless the cost of electricity (plus whatever other maintenance costs exist) is greater than the yield in bitcoin. The high purchase price of equipment would mean they won't be buying any more. But it would not make them turn off what they already have.

True re equipment costs as the only cause, but if no new equipment is deployed, but old equipment is decommissioned, then the network speed WILL decrease.
here is the first mining "bearwhale" for you, but there will be more
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=813649.0