[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[jdmcg]

DASH/USD

• Bear trend seems over since 2020.
• Volume seems to have increased heavily since 2020. There has definitely been very significant buy support (accumulation) throughout 2020.
• Volume was very low end of 2019 and it seems price slid heavily on 'low volume'.
• Looks like $40 is a very solid bottom of the bear trend and seems completely out of reach now.
• Solid floor has potentially moved up to $60, as we haven't breached it since the covid crash took the whole crypto market down (March 2020) and only breached it for two months end of 2019.
• It's possible that $60 is a solid floor now and may also be out of reach, but too soon to call it.
• DASH/USD price is on the move, but it is too soon to clearly seen an uptrend. DASH/USD does seems more "stable", with a slightly positive trend building.
• When Bitcoin breaches $20K, hopefully DASH/USD follows along and makes a move towards the $120-$140 zone.
• The potential is there to see $100 becoming a solid floor in the coming year. It's possible that sub $100 coins will be considered dirt cheap by the end of 2021.
• A lot will depend on the upcoming release of Dash Platform / Dashpay in 2021 to support the bullish trend. Obviously the bullish trend will be much stronger if it's promoted and received well by end users and investors.

I'll start by saying I'm not a TA specialist (or financial advisor) but I know some of the basics of TA. I suggest anyone getting into crypto at least learn the basics because TA has a good track record (when used and understood properly) when it comes to predicting the likelihood of price action based on human emotions. Crypto trading is largely still speculative and tied to fear and greed more than anything else. If a project is good technically/fundamentally enough and has enough network effect then it likely has enough visibility for the roller coaster ride that our emotions will bring.

Now, regarding DASH/USD:

DASH didn't really enter a bull market vs USD at the beginning of 2020. This is what would be called a fake out and was largely not sustainable because the big boss, BTC, was still in a bear market. So, we saw DASH enter what appeared to be a bull market around Feb 5th but it only latest for about 2 months... Another shorter/smaller fake out occurred around May 15th and lasted less than a month... Yet another fake out about Aug 20th which again ran out of steam in just over a month... Multiple fake outs in a row like this often suggest the price is settling down at a stable bottom (which IMO is about $65)

DASH has most recently entered into a bull market vs USD on Nov 28th... is this a fake out? It's possible but the odds are that it's not. Some reasons for the optimism...
1) BTC is on the verge of breaking its previous ATH of around $20K (History tells us that has always been very good for alts)
2) Other alts are also showing strength against USD... DASH is not alone in its rising
3) Technical indicators for DASH (moving averages, RSI, even volume) are all showing bullish

If DASH's price should dip right now, you'd see major support around the $80 level. DASH's pump back in Jan had weak market structure and could be identified as a pump and dump...

From where DASH is today, the major resistance levels are about $135, $170, $220, $250, $300 and $500... after that the price could easily rip up to its previous ATH and beyond...

DASH/BTC

• Bitcoin has seen enormous investment in the past year and has basically wrecked the bitcoin ratio of almost all altcoins.
• DASH/BTC trading around 0.005, the same level as 2014/2015. DASH/BTC's floor currently seems to be around the 0.005 level, but no clear trend and no clear sign that this level will be defended, as far as I can tell.
• Bitcoin sentiment is megabullish and continues to push towards the $20K level. With all the prominent Bitcoiners and investment firms in full shill mode, projecting prices of $250K no less, it is a reasonable assumption that there is a significant probability that this floor will not hold. When Bitcoin makes its next push I would not be surprised to see it dip below 0.005 and continuing its decent towards 0.001 levels. Possibly hitting lower ratios than 0.001, possibly entering the 0.000x ranges, when Bitcoin's price appreciation goes exponential.
• Unfortunately it means that there was no financial benefit buying Dash instead of Bitcoin, even when you got in reasonably early. This however applies to almost all altcoins.
• If 0.005 breaches it will have been a sub optimal ;-) move for most investors, so it would definitely be a great confidence booster to see DASH/BTC hold 0.005. If it does, while Bitcoin rises, then we are ready for our own bullish move.
• Question is to what extent does DASH/BTC still matter? Do people still look at the DASH/BTC chart? Do people still buy DASH primarily with Bitcoin or are the fiat pairs more important?

Now, DASH vs BTC should always follow DASH vs USD. So, if DASH can remain in a bull market against USD (and not be yet another fake out), I'd expect DASH to enter into a bull market vs BTC sometime early January 2021.

The pump from earlier this year in January saw DASH enter a bull market vs BTC Jan 31st... a clue this wasn't sustainable as DASH had not yet entered into a bull market vs USD...

Now, there's a decent chance DASH saw its bottom vs BTC at around 0.0042 BTC about a month ago. But no guarantees. DASH needs to break above 0.0064 BTC and hold it as support to break the trend. DASH is currently trading above the 50 DAY SMA and successfully held it as support just the other day.

At this point I see it as slim to no chance that DASH goes as low as 0.001 BTC. DASH has formed strong support at 0.0044 BTC and if it were to break that I'd expect it to dip to 0.0037 BTC before spiking back up.

Now, the bullish case for DASH all hinges on BTC breaking its previous ATH around $20K. If BTC ultimately gets rejected at $20K, it will be ugly for all cryptos for quite some time.

Once BTC holds above $20K, alts will outperform BTC by a good margin in the short term. It's just human nature. 2021 will be good for the patient but 2022 may be devastating for those that are too greedy...

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[Nthelight]

• The monthly transactions are based on recent averages of 25,000 daily transactions multiplied by 30,5.
• The Masternode revenue is taken from Crowning’s ROI estimation page. I don’t know if it includes cost per masternode, but VPS hosting cost is low and percentage wise it becomes smaller as price continues to increase, so the general calculation should still be accurate enough to show the problem.
• Such MN revenues can only be justified to some extent (or be sustainable) if the network usage increases accordingly, therefore the ideal dynamic block reward algorithm should take into account certain growth factors, such as the number of transactions.
• Even if the number of transactions increases drastically, the projected return for masternodes (block reward split) is far too high as the overall network cost is ultimately reflected in a hidden transaction cost, which is carried by (new) investors who ultimately buy the MN revenue coins whenever they are sold.
• If this analysis (point of view) is correct, then the issue will obviously become bigger as we gradually upscale the MN split towards 60%.
• Of course the hidden transaction cost is not $3 at the moment, as not all MN revenue is sold, it will be a fraction of that. It is the maximum hidden transaction cost if all MNOs would constantly sell their revenue.

[birdonthewire]

• Question is to what extent does DASH/BTC still matter? Do people still look at the DASH/BTC chart? Do people still buy DASH primarily with Bitcoin or are the fiat pairs more important?

In a context of hyper-impression of global fiat ... would anyone really believe that that could have any merit? Increase more the price of a can of peppers in any supermarket in the world ... and without the least effort or magic strategy.

I think it was you who valued incorporating an economist into this project, a question on the table for years that I think is answered by itself ... and, by the way, ignored, if not directly trolled in the different channels and media of information intoxicated AND SUBSIDIZED by the DAO, including funding for the marginalization and trolling to dissidents. (Like any invitation to the debate to reinforce DASH as a store of value ... offered for YEARS until RTaylor did well to introduce it into her narrative - imo, more like her excuses -).

The nonsense of treating a MONETARY project without regard to its own nature is of such caliber that it sounds excessive even in the midst of this mess of stupidity, neglect, parasitism and corruption. In front of your eyes, or in your own numbers, you have it.

[birdonthewire]

I'll start by saying I'm not a TA specialist (or financial advisor) but I know some of the basics of TA. I suggest anyone ...

Good post, thanks.

[Nthelight]

DASH/USD

• Bear trend seems over since 2020.
• Volume seems to have increased heavily since 2020. There has definitely been very significant buy support (accumulation) throughout 2020.
• Volume was very low end of 2019 and it seems price slid heavily on 'low volume'.
• Looks like $40 is a very solid bottom of the bear trend and seems completely out of reach now.
• Solid floor has potentially moved up to $60, as we haven't breached it since the covid crash took the whole crypto market down (March 2020) and only breached it for two months end of 2019.
• It's possible that $60 is a solid floor now and may also be out of reach, but too soon to call it.
• DASH/USD price is on the move, but it is too soon to clearly seen an uptrend. DASH/USD does seems more "stable", with a slightly positive trend building.
• When Bitcoin breaches $20K, hopefully DASH/USD follows along and makes a move towards the $120-$140 zone.
• The potential is there to see $100 becoming a solid floor in the coming year. It's possible that sub $100 coins will be considered dirt cheap by the end of 2021.
• A lot will depend on the upcoming release of Dash Platform / Dashpay in 2021 to support the bullish trend. Obviously the bullish trend will be much stronger if it's promoted and received well by end users and investors.

DASH didn't really enter a bull market vs USD at the beginning of 2020. This is what would be called a fake out and was largely not sustainable because the big boss, BTC, was still in a bear market. So, we saw DASH enter what appeared to be a bull market around Feb 5th but it only latest for about 2 months... Another shorter/smaller fake out occurred around May 15th and lasted less than a month... Yet another fake out about Aug 20th which again ran out of steam in just over a month... Multiple fake outs in a row like this often suggest the price is settling down at a stable bottom (which IMO is about $65)

DASH has most recently entered into a bull market vs USD on Nov 28th... is this a fake out? It's possible but the odds are that it's not. Some reasons for the optimism...
1) BTC is on the verge of breaking its previous ATH of around $20K (History tells us that has always been very good for alts)
2) Other alts are also showing strength against USD... DASH is not alone in its rising
3) Technical indicators for DASH (moving averages, RSI, even volume) are all showing bullish

If DASH's price should dip right now, you'd see major support around the $80 level. DASH's pump back in Jan had weak market structure and could be identified as a pump and dump...

From where DASH is today, the major resistance levels are about $135, $170, $220, $250, $300 and $500... after that the price could easily rip up to its previous ATH and beyond...

I agree regarding DASH/USD. I'm well aware that the first move was a blatant pump and dump (ultradar). Didn't say we were in a bull market since 2020. That is obviously not the case. In retrospect it just seems that the bearish trend ended there and that 2020 was a year of trying to find an acceptable floor. As said the upwards move has only recently started and it is still too fresh to be 100% convinced, but it's looking good.

Additionally I'm conservative on the numbers as I'm taking into account a potential downwards trend for Bitcoin (however unlikely that seems now) which would very quickly decimate our DASH/USD. It just looks like the $40 zone is absolutely out of reach no matter what Bitcoin does and it's possible that even the $60 zone is out of reach no matter what Bitcoin does. Bitcoin can dump to $4000 tomorrow and it will be very hard to get any Dash around $40. This is our hard baked bottom for 2020.

If Bitcoin continues to move up then these zones will absolutely be out of reach and $80 will then effectively be reflected as a potential new hard floor, but that's not the case yet today, so I remain conservative. I would however say that it's reasonable to assume that getting any DASH between $40 and $60 is very very unlikely, even $65 seems out of reach. Anyone waiting for those prices is going to miss out.

We may have a bit of a hard time pushing upwards though, as we will need get through some bears selling between $120-$200. Once those Dash bears are out, DASH/USD has the ability to go much higher provided there is decent demand.

DASH/BTC

• Bitcoin has seen enormous investment in the past year and has basically wrecked the bitcoin ratio of almost all altcoins.
• DASH/BTC trading around 0.005, the same level as 2014/2015. DASH/BTC's floor currently seems to be around the 0.005 level, but no clear trend and no clear sign that this level will be defended, as far as I can tell.
• Bitcoin sentiment is megabullish and continues to push towards the $20K level. With all the prominent Bitcoiners and investment firms in full shill mode, projecting prices of $250K no less, it is a reasonable assumption that there is a significant probability that this floor will not hold. When Bitcoin makes its next push I would not be surprised to see it dip below 0.005 and continuing its decent towards 0.001 levels. Possibly hitting lower ratios than 0.001, possibly entering the 0.000x ranges, when Bitcoin's price appreciation goes exponential.
• Unfortunately it means that there was no financial benefit buying Dash instead of Bitcoin, even when you got in reasonably early. This however applies to almost all altcoins.
• If 0.005 breaches it will have been a sub optimal ;-) move for most investors, so it would definitely be a great confidence booster to see DASH/BTC hold 0.005. If it does, while Bitcoin rises, then we are ready for our own bullish move.
• Question is to what extent does DASH/BTC still matter? Do people still look at the DASH/BTC chart? Do people still buy DASH primarily with Bitcoin or are the fiat pairs more important?

Now, DASH vs BTC should always follow DASH vs USD. So, if DASH can remain in a bull market against USD (and not be yet another fake out), I'd expect DASH to enter into a bull market vs BTC sometime early January 2021.

The pump from earlier this year in January saw DASH enter a bull market vs BTC Jan 31st... a clue this wasn't sustainable as DASH had not yet entered into a bull market vs USD...

Now, there's a decent chance DASH saw its bottom vs BTC at around 0.0042 BTC about a month ago. But no guarantees. DASH needs to break above 0.0064 BTC and hold it as support to break the trend. DASH is currently trading above the 50 DAY SMA and successfully held it as support just the other day.

At this point I see it as slim to no chance that DASH goes as low as 0.001 BTC. DASH has formed strong support at 0.0044 BTC and if it were to break that I'd expect it to dip to 0.0037 BTC before spiking back up.

Now, the bullish case for DASH all hinges on BTC breaking its previous ATH around $20K. If BTC ultimately gets rejected at $20K, it will be ugly for all cryptos for quite some time.

Once BTC holds above $20K, alts will outperform BTC by a good margin in the short term. It's just human nature. 2021 will be good for the patient but 2022 may be devastating for those that are too greedy...

Well, I certainly hope we're not ever touching the 0,005 DASH/BTC level ever again. Just too soon to say and I'm not convinced at all that there is strong support there. If Bitcoin/USD really explodes, it does not seem unreasonable to think that we will blast through several DASH/BTC support levels. If we do hold that level than we're set for a bull trend.

Hoping for the best and that 2021 may bring a clear uptrend on both the DASH/USD and DASH/BTC pair.

[toknormal]

We're drifting once more against BTC. This should not be happening.

Dash is a very powerful coin and it's getting destroyed by lack of thinking. The community must not congregate around a vote decision. It must think, review and continue to evolve around the decision. It must not allow itself to be gagged by a vote but rather use it as a platform to evolve and compete against other coins. Otherwise we'll just drown ourselves in our own governance mechanism. It was supposed to liberate thinking and make the coin more versatile, not castrate community thinking.



Dash has amazing prowess but underpowered due to its mining capacity being completely neutered by the protocol IMO. A bit like the most advanced Boeing that couldn't get off the ground because its engines were underpowered.

When are we going to get our mining power restored so we can all get behind this coin again ?

Why should Dash holders put up with strangulation of mining competitively just so that masternodes can earn holiday cruises ? Why can we not be aggressive, competitive and use our advantages to gain rankings against other mined coins ? Why do we have to put up with this silly narrative that "managing traffic to order books" is all Dash can do to save itself ? Other coins are happy to have high volume trading (and can afford it because being 100% mined, the fiat they draw does not get dumped in holiday cruises, instead it gets invested straight into upwards difficulty adjustments across their ENTIRE blockchain which is the definition of store of value in crypto. That's why they enjoy investor preference over us).

We have a budget that is the blockchain supply. New supply is being created every day. To me that supply should be directed optimally and aggressively at the three targets that can grow Dash:

 1. wealth preservation (mining)
 2. forward investment (treasury)
 3. service protocol (masternodes) The cheapest but most competitive of the lot. Spend least, gain most.

We are wasting HALF of our entire supply on the 3rd target when investors are interested in the 1st target.

[birdonthewire]

Things must be reversed and only the community can do it.

There is no community in DASH. Not what any other project understands as a community. There is a distorted idea of ​​community embedded as a trap. And apart from my own indignation, I emphasize it because beyond the embarrassing appropriation and kidnapping after taking advantage of the capital of hundreds of thousands of well-intentioned people and today totally marginalized from the project ... in the face of the public media - not those manipulated by Treasury hijackers - the project's own visible heads demagogically manipulate that concept, referring to the community as to all DASH users. They continually handle this ambiguity with interest ... because admitting that only a couple of hundred people decide EVERYTHING in this project and appropriate the funds generated by ALL the movement generated in the chain, is so shameful and indefensible in a sector philosophically presided over by decentralization that would simply leave its utter infamy and manipulation in utter clarity in the eyes of the entire sector and investors approaching crypto. It would be literally the laughing stock of crypto, giving more reason to the accusations that for so many years have been branded as defamations ... when all of them (many malicious ... but many others not) responded with total clarity to the evident manipulation and appropriation of the draft. Not even Instamine gossip would get such evidence of tampering alongside a CLEAR and SINCERE admission of DASH's operation. Duffield left a structure that was an excellent legacy ... corruption and incapacity is of your own making, even frontally corrupting several of the founder's libertarian approaches.

The community OF MNODES to which you demand action ... are precisely the two or three hundred people who vote and strangle this project (two or three hundred people WORLDWIDE: or, and DASH "selling" decentralization for the planet: . ..the fallacy is absolutely incredible and unsustainable! ).

The plan, modeled after the most parasitic world political tipical model to the assault of the funds of a collective how much many of us have to suffer in the "free world" and drives us to try adventures as crypto , was to laugh in the face of everyone, ignoring them while the pocket was generously filled ... the accusations and abusive evidence would be worth it, always that they were paid at the price of Gold. Dignity had a price. But now it turns out that in addition to being rotten, the project is a ruin ... because in addition to being corrupt centralized and centralizers ... as a decision-making mass, you are idiots and / or incapable of creating a single action of value ... with a track record of proposals approved with which a book of anthological jokes could be made. Each of the performances has been more ridiculous than the last.

Yesterday I was reading one of the most active and idealistic members of the forum, of course, absolutely passionate about the original spirit of DASH - and always keeping impeccable forms and respect -, complain bitterly that RTaylor and Core simply ignore him and do not They respond to your requests for information in the face of the extremely exaggerated rent of the offices that they continually charge to the DAO ... and that several members have apparently found empty in their personal visits. RTaylor does the same as you: Silence for an answer and to "put your hand". By the way, the commented rent for "the idealistic boy who left Wall Street for the minimum wage" is for absolutely ASTRONOMIC figures. So exaggerated, that since I don't remember them literally, nor do I expose them for fear of erroneously disturbing them. But a real outrage.

And now you expect the "geniuses" "generous" "decentralized" to shed that rotten DNA on which they have freely and arrogantly performed as managers and as people ... and turn the project 180º?

I understand the desperate claim ... but it totally lacks logic. Perhaps it will be more successful to call another international beer festival ... or another open house - in which images are only seen, pathetically, a few attendees and all of them members of the parasitic hierarchy of DASH ... because this old jewel, turned into pure shit no longer absolutely interests anyone -.

Without decentralizing it, there is nothing to do. Another thing would be a fork. But that this band of immoral ... reset? That is dreaming out loud.


p.d.

By the way ... yesterday someone was talking about a possible network effect in DASH.

Network effect is precisely what the DAO hijackers have amputated in DASH after turning the REAL COMMUNITY into mere dolls. The incredible thing is that you believe that hundreds of thousands of people will keep coming to fill your pockets while feeling marginalized as manipulable idiots. Drop money so that the cheaters who deny them bread and salt ... take it away by the handful. (Or not ... that now the scammed are despicable "little fish" and you think that it is the rich who are going to come to the project to put six figures in a Mnode that does not influence a shit in the centralized tide of DASH, full of whales with dozens, even hundreds and maybe some with thousands ... so that at any moment another "fantastic" vote will come out and send them to hell by cutting their rights as has been done before)

Anyway ... A great idea ... pure inertia, yes sir. (in the historical and proven line of DASH, that's for sure ...)

[toknormal]

There is no community in DASH.

There is indeed a community (of investors). It just doesn't quite understand what it owns or what parts of it make it valuable in a formal enough way to not through the baby out with the bathwater.

[birdonthewire]

There is no community in DASH.

There is indeed a community (of investors). It just doesn't quite understand what it owns or what parts of it make it valuable in a formal enough way to not through the baby out with the bathwater.

ALL media paid directly by the DAO of DASH (funding in addition, continued later that demonstrates adherence to the supported editorial line) or relevant people such as RTaylor, Evan Duffield, Amanda B Johnsonn (who are not hesitant to stray from mainstream consensus on the project)... offered to receive "INVESTORS" to hundreds of thousands of users whose funds have been made available to them...the vast majority wasted on various stupidities and shenanigans.And of course, profit for those involved ... that is not lacking.  

You have a thousand samples on the net ... several of them STILL offering STILL Shared Mnodes to DASH holders under a thousand tokens ON OFFICIAL DASH INFORMATION CHANNELS. Even with maximum dates included - "DASH Style" dates, of course ... and consequently, already unfulfilled -. DAO hijackers believe that any manipulation is possible ... and that they will all be free.

The "communal empathy" and "libertarian and decentralized motivation" of the beneficiaries of this deception, paying advertising in boxers of unknown fifth-class or a thousand equally ridiculous ways ... to finish it off with misappropriating common funds for their own benefit (while the aspiring DASH "accounts with return", many of them, I suppose, suffering savers from precarious economies have seen their "investment" drop from thousands of dollars to a few tens) is known by anyone minimally related to crypto by now ... whether it's DASH related or not.

Community ? : Two or three hundred voters ... in the "Decentralized Blockchain Revolution".   The rest, smoke and mirrors of people "too intelligent".

The puzzling measures to, theoretically, strengthen DASH as a store of value push more to think that what is announced is not their main motivation than to trust them for what they supposedly defend. To suspect that their objective is not the one announced ... but what is evident is centralization, rather than simply "following the leader" as stated in a previous post (and, in any case, that specific focuses have the capacity to consolidate decisions and / or narratives - just look at the treatment of the essential "bleach" DASH NEWS , today happily deceased and his worlds of candy, rainbow and of course festive Treasure... respect to the unacceptable delay of Evolution after dozens of interviews with people directly involved that seemed more like a party of comrades than an information tool on a crucial element of the project -).

------------------------------------

By the way, I have found Depp Blue's complaint about the famous Core rental:
"They are spending 55k  for office space which has been proven to be empty on every occasion a trusted member of the Dash community has visited their office. DCG Ryan Taylor and Glenn Austin have not answered my inquiries to this issue -remaining silent. We should not tolerate this type of waste of resource and we most definitely should not tolerate silence to valid questions asked on their spending. The 5th amendment rights are not applicable in decentralized funding I'm afraid. If you get money from the network you are accountable to the network and silence is not an acceptable response to valid inquiries. We need to stand up to this type of behavior from DCG who are the biggest spenders of the treasury funds. "

You cannot fix this attitude of those who are comfortably installed in such a situation without greater doses of decentralization. How many votes can these people have behind them, if they need them? (impossible to know, ok ... but without any good perspective if what you are looking for is logic to prevail, right?).

I understand your points and I align with them, more or less, ok ... but the first thing to fix DASH is to decentralize it. There are things to improve, and space for improvement ... although less every day. But certainly not from within.

[toknormal]

Institutional investors will abandon Dash if they don't get capital gain.

There are two types of mined coins from an investor perspective:

 • ones that deploy the capital they draw from order books in upwards difficulty adjustments
 • ones that deploy the capital they draw from order books in masternode holiday cruises

Guess which one new institutional investors prefer to place their capital with ?

[birdonthewire]

Institutional investors will abandon Dash if they don't get capital gain.

There are two types of mined coins form an investor perspective:

 • ones that deploy the capital they draw from order books in upwards difficulty adjustments
 • ones that deploy the capital they draw from order books in masternode holiday cruises

Guess which one new investors prefer to place their capital with ?

Everything you continually try to associate with those upwards difficulty adjustments and that is not an automatic correlation ... NO WAY. (Imo, moreover, is uncertain and to top it all, it minimizes the true point of added value of DASH that very few of those references based on mining have: The capacity for constant self-financing ... which, moreover, is, imo, the fundamental element to consolidate DASH as a store of value). By the way, that argument already sounded exaggerated or out of place before you showed the tax damages that it caused you in particular ... so now it sounds even more excessive. And that is a private matter that does not contribute anything to optimizing a collective structure.

After personally consulting with people informed at a very high technical level about DASH, what does seem clear (and I accept) is that mining is another layer of security and added strength, even with the existence of ChainLocks and the work of the Mnodes . So the POW-POS cocktail is brilliant and enhances both scenarios separately ... even Antonopoulos admitted it.  ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrwgYDAoZV0&feature=youtu.be&t=675 ). But until there the prominence of mining, imo.

[jdmcg]

Right then we're drifting once more against BTC. This should not be happening.

Too much emotion will lead you to sell low and buy high every time. Try to look at the bigger picture and stop trying to control what you can't.

BTC getting rejected and forming a lower high... you can't be surprised that alts, including DASH fall against BTC...

[Nthelight]

Right then we're drifting once more against BTC. This should not be happening.

Correlation.

Dash is a very powerful coin and it's getting destroyed by lack of thinking.

Some people are still thinking. This decision does not necessarily have the wide support of the MNO network. I think many people just don't understand the issue well enough.

The community must not congregate around a vote decision. It must think, review and continue to evolve around the decision. It must not allow itself to be gagged by a vote but rather use it as a platform to evolve and compete against other coins. Otherwise we'll just drown ourselves in our own governance mechanism. It was supposed to liberate thinking and make the coin more versatile, not castrate community thinking.

The decentralized governance system is created to come to a consensus and from a technical perspective it works well. The problem is the human element. There is no IQ test for running a masternode, there is no degree of economics (tokenomics) required for running an MN, yet that is what they needed to decide on. Combine that with an inefficient way of discussing and reaching a conclusion in a forum or live chat. I know well enough that sometimes it is difficult to make an argument or some MNOs become emotional and start name calling. It can be annoying as they don't provide any reasoning, just shouting a simplistic point of view that is not well thought through (miners are selling! we don't need PoW! PoW is an environmental disaster ...). Once it goes in a certain direction, the followers are just going along and echo what has been said. It can be exhausting to try and convince people who lack knowledge and act stubbornly. The inner circle around DCG is also sometimes a bit too defensive. Anyone who disagrees may end up in the troll bin sooner or later. It's not that different in other communities, but Dash can and should do better.

Dash has amazing prowess but underpowered due to its mining capacity being completely neutered by the protocol IMO. A bit like the most advanced Boeing that couldn't get off the ground because its engines were underpowered.

Again, it's not just this parameter that is keeping Dash down to some extent. Dash's potential for growth is enormous, especially with the upcoming Dash Platform / Dashpay, but we need to fire on all cylinders and yes ideally we get our economics fully optimized.

When are we going to get our mining power restored so we can all get behind this coin again ?

There is plenty mining power. The discussed problem is the high return for masternodes at the expense of miners who burn energy (proof of burn) to mint coins, which (in the oldskool PoW mining theory) determines their value to some extent and Dash now deviates even more from this view than before.

Why should Dash holders put up with strangulation of mining competitively just so that masternodes can earn holiday cruises ?

Focus on the convincing arguments. Show that Proof of Work (~highest block reward share for miners) leads to price increase.

Why can we not be aggressive, competitive and use our advantages to gain rankings against other mined coins ? Why do we have to put up with this stupid narrative that "managing traffic to order books" is all Dash can do to save itself ? Other coins are happy to have high volume trading (and can afford it because being 100% mined, the fiat they draw does not get dumped in holiday cruises, instead it gets invested straight into upwards difficulty adjustments across their ENTIRE blockchain which is the definition of store of value in crypto. That's why they enjoy investor preference over us).

Potentially stuck in flawed thinking which originates back to Evan Duffield. A genius idea that was pushed too far. Evan truly had extraordinary ideas and was willing to try highly innovative features, but that doesn't mean he was perfectly right about everything. These ideas were completely new for crypto and that is the power of Dash. We have had some truly extraordinary development for a so called altcoin. If you compare that to coins who are mainly sitting on their ass, pulling bitcoin commits and playing with some parameters (ahum Litecoin), then Dash is still one of the most remarkable projects in the crypto space.

Having said that, I continue to feel that 20% should have been the max and even at 20% the issue remains if price blows up. Some big brain should make a mathematical formula (dynamic algorithm) on how the block reward should be split. This would preferably be a semi long term objective (after DP) as it is quite complex. Arbitrary settings simply do not solve the problem we've been discussing, but decreasing the share for MNs as much as possible and as soon as possible, could lead to rapid and drastic improvement in terms of store of value. Afterwards hopefully something elegant could be implemented.

We have a budget that is the blockchain supply. New supply is being created every day. To me that supply should be directed optimally and aggressively at the three targets that can grow Dash:

 1. wealth preservation (mining)
 2. forward investment (treasury)
 3. service protocol (masternodes) The cheapest but most competitive of the lot. Spend least, gain most.

That is what we are already doing. The whole discussion is who should get how much and you still haven't answered that. If the problem discussed is truly a downward pressure on our price, then we could gradually change the return for masternodes to around 5 to 10%. Same for the treasury 5 to 10%. Miners 80% to 90%.

It's just a terrible idea to change this (and change it again). This is the worst part of it. Poor analysis. Potentially worse results as a consequence. He should have let it rest for a while, until the bullish trend started. A lot was done under pressure of the harsh bear market and the constrained funding for DCG. That's when you take wrong decisions. If there are clear opposing views and you get feedback from intelligent people in the community that challenge the presented view, well then you put it on the back burner until things are more clear. He should also be well aware that many people are just going to follow along and it is usually not those that shout the loudest that are the brightest.

We are wasting HALF of our entire supply on the 3rd target when investors are interested in the 1st target.

We are not wasting half our supply. Tier two (MNs) is simply over incentivized. The concept is good, but the potential (counter intuitive) negative effect of over incentivizing is not well understood by several Dash MNOs, including DCG.

We could have both because masternodes have fixed costs. They're the only one of the three that can gain profitability from a price rise, yet the protocol is preventing us from availing ourselves of that huge competitive advantage over other coins. It's holding us back by rigging block reward margins in favour of the one stakeholder that can take them from price growth rather than supply growth.

Nodes only need to be profitable for us to compete successfully with bitcoin. No more. Bitcoin nodes don't even get their hosting costs paid. We don't need to spend our own blockchain budget on masternode profits because those are available from capital gain (from outside the Dash ecosystem) if we spend the budget wisely. Masternodes are long term holders. Treasury contractors and miners are short term holders. They do not benefit from capital gain.

So why are we bleeding the entire marketcap dry just to keep up this pretence of ROI measured in Dash so that capital losses can be hidden from the promotion to investors ? Why can we not offer them a protocol that's designed around inherent capital gain rather than numerical gain financed by real capital loss ? Even masternodes themselves are loosing their savings from these misplaced priorities because they have far more at stake in the form of node collateral than they gain in rewards.

They just need stronger arguments. Too many people in Dash don't recognize the value of Proof of Work other than "security". There are several people who stated out loud that we didn't need PoW anymore because we have ChainLocks. PoW is just waste to them. These people know nothing.

Things must be re-thought and reversed.

Yes. I would probably support going in the other direction. Still waiting for killer arguments though. You know the thing that Ryan Taylor was actually lacking to provide during his tokenomics. It's time to do your own toknormalenomics presentation.

We are going to die a slow death with such an impoverished mining capacity. *

Cut it with the negative hyperbole. This isn't going to convince anyone. Price appreciation has various mechanisms, we are only discussing one mechanism here which is potentially keeping us down.

Only the community can do it.

You need to convince DCG and the MNOs will follow. Therefore you need to show them (mostly Ryan Taylor I suspect) the error in their thinking. Since it seems to be a major concern to you, you will need to convince them that the "miners are selling more than masternode owners" is a poor and potentially totally irrelevant argument to justify this change in our economics. The change is almost entirely based on that point of view. Really, the thinking doesn't go much further than that. Otherwise, like I've already said, this will just be a pointless discussion.

* It's not the amount of hashpower that's the problem. Dash hashpower is growing. It's the fact that Dash protocol firewalls off that hashpower from half of its blocks. Half of its blocks are generated at zero difficulty regardless of how much hashrate Dash accumulates. Investors price that in. We need to spread it over more blocks to protect the scarcity of the supply

How do you come to the point of view that "investors are pricing that in"? Can you provide more substance to that statement? Apologies if you already clarified that in one of your previous posts.


Relevant links:

Ryan Taylor - Improving Dash As A Store Of Value
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yylT6gAihc

Dash Core Group Presentation on Dash Economics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUf76R2V3pY

Blog post by community member who was not impressed, but somehow still liked the idea of decreasing the split for miners.
https://bitedge.com/blog/ryans-dash-tokenomics-talk-was-poorly-timed-and-poorly-delivered/

Blog post by mining company Luxor and petition against the change
https://medium.com/luxor/dash-block-reward-proposal-62204cf71c96
https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/dash-miner-reward-petition-2020

[Nthelight]

Institutional investors will abandon Dash if they don't get capital gain.

There are two types of mined coins from an investor perspective:

 • ones that deploy the capital they draw from order books in upwards difficulty adjustments
 • ones that deploy the capital they draw from order books in masternode holiday cruises

Guess which one new institutional investors prefer to place their capital with ?

There are no institutional investors in Dash and Dash will likely not see any such investment.

They don't know what happens below CMC #20. It's all about Bitcoin the original ponzi digital gold and to some extent Ethereum. The riskier players add a small percentage of "high risk" coins to their portfolio. High risk is like a lower top10 project to them.

You think an institutional investor would look at Dash if we were switching to 90% PoW mining again?

[Nthelight]

A pretty picture to calm the nerves. 



The video looks great.

I am missing the 2014 github activity.

Did Evan delete the original github repo? Is this still available somewhere?
https://github.com/evan82/xcoin/

I also found the following github which dates back to 2014, was this an official repo?:
https://github.com/smartbitcoin/darkcoin.git

[Nthelight]

After personally consulting with people informed at a very high technical level about DASH, what does seem clear (and I accept) is that mining is another layer of security and added strength, even with the existence of ChainLocks and the work of the Mnodes .

Proof of Work cannot be removed. It is the foundational layer of our network security that has stood the test of time. Chainlocks are still new and can potentially fail during very high network activity (like a stress test testing our block size limit) and then we must fall back to basic proof of work.

So the POW-POS cocktail is brilliant and enhances both scenarios separately ... even Antonopoulos admitted it.  ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrwgYDAoZV0&feature=youtu.be&t=675 ). But until there the prominence of mining, imo.

The hybrid model we've implemented is indeed brilliant. It's just possible that we may need to fine tune it.

[jdmcg]

So, why again must the solution involve lowering the percentage that goes to masternodes?

As pointed out, DASH is having a difficult time getting more than 5000 masternodes. With everything as it is, doesn't this suggest the incentives are not high enough to build up the masternode network further? Is 5000 enough? Shouldn't we want more?

At 5000 masternodes, and assuming 1.48 DASH reward to masternodes per block (this will go up by about 1% every quarter for the next 4+ years), a masternode owner gets just about 5.18 DASH a month, about 62.2 DASH a year... is that really that excessive? 6.2%? Many competitors offer more.

At 6000 masternodes, 4.32 DASH/mth or 51.8/yr... 5.2%
At 7000 masternodes, 3.7 DASH/mth or 44.4/yr... 4.4%

It's been mentioned people run Bitcoin full nodes for free. However they don't require the massive 1000 coin collateral like DASH does. Who would run a full DASH node with such a collateral requirement unless the incentives justified it?

As I've presented before, I believe trustless shared masternodes would go a long way to alleviate the concerns toknormal continues to bring up. So not sure why it has been dismissed out of hand.

This could very well push the masternode count to 7000, forcing non-shared masternode owners to consider the risk of having such a large number of coins tied up for only 4% too much and moving out as they are replaced by shared masternodes. A slow, controlled way to increase masternodes while increasing community involvement.   

Another thing to seriously consider is lowering the collateral required to run a masternode. I may be wrong, but I thought Evan Duffield once said that once DASH is $100, the collateral should be reduced to 500. This simple change could go a long way in spreading out the masternode rewards to more people as well...

[arielbit]

So, why again must the solution involve lowering the percentage that goes to masternodes?

As pointed out, DASH is having a difficult time getting more than 5000 masternodes. With everything as it is, doesn't this suggest the incentives are not high enough to build up the masternode network further? Is 5000 enough? Shouldn't we want more?

At 5000 masternodes, and assuming 1.48 DASH reward to masternodes per block (this will go up by about 1% every quarter for the next 4+ years), a masternode owner gets just about 5.18 DASH a month, about 62.2 DASH a year... is that really that excessive? 6.2%? Many competitors offer more.

At 6000 masternodes, 4.32 DASH/mth or 51.8/yr... 5.2%
At 7000 masternodes, 3.7 DASH/mth or 44.4/yr... 4.4%

It's been mentioned people run Bitcoin full nodes for free. However they don't require the massive 1000 coin collateral like DASH does. Who would run a full DASH node with such a collateral requirement unless the incentives justified it?

As I've presented before, I believe trustless shared masternodes would go a long way to alleviate the concerns toknormal continues to bring up. So not sure why it has been dismissed out of hand.

This could very well push the masternode count to 7000, forcing non-shared masternode owners to consider the risk of having such a large number of coins tied up for only 4% too much and moving out as they are replaced by shared masternodes. A slow, controlled way to increase masternodes while increasing community involvement.   

Another thing to seriously consider is lowering the collateral required to run a masternode. I may be wrong, but I thought Evan Duffield once said that once DASH is $100, the collateral should be reduced to 500. This simple change could go a long way in spreading out the masternode rewards to more people as well...

here buddy..something to ponder on.

If there is no real consensus for this then it is a non-issue as far as I am concerned. Personally I just do not understand why anybody would be in favour of (or advocating for) redenomination when it comes to Dash because there is no real need to do it with nothing clear about what is to gain from it. If in the future there is a need to consider this it makes sense to discuss all options but right now there is no need, no case and no consensus to go as far as redenomination.

It would need to go through a decision proposal. Outcome would be difficult to guess. This is not about masternode operators / masternode owners being able to call themselves millionaires in Dash.
Personally i am against redenomination. For some reason it comes off as very manipulative and seems to challenge the immutable character of cryptocurrency.

Marketcap = Circulating Supply x Price

Current situation

Dash : 9,700,739 DASH Circulating Supply  & Price  : $75.78
Marketcap : $735,122,001
Mined : 9,700,739 DASH / 18,900,000 DASH x 100 =  51%

Three decimals shifting (1 OLD DASH = 1000 NEW DASH)

Dash : 9,700,739,000 DASH Circulating Supply  & Price  : $0,07578
Marketcap : $735,122,001
Mined : 9,700,739,000 DASH / 18,900,000 DASH x 100 =  51,326%

1 old dash = 1000 new dash....how about 1000 new dash become a masternode too? masternode instaminers profit down?---> will not pass LOL

you see they rather re denominate than re masternode.

comparing % mined?

17,692,702 XMR / 18,400,000 XMR x 100 = 96,16% of Monero mined
9,699,159 DASH / 18,900,000 Dash x 100 = 51,31% of Dash mined
18,484,581 BTC  / 21,000,000 BTC x 100 =  88,02% of Bitcoin mined

remember dash original supply? 84 million and reduced to 18.9 million hehe

after millions were instamined and POS in masternodes...yeah 51.31% dash mined but most coins that will come out are masternode rewards..let that sink in 

[cryptopediabd]

Right then we're drifting once more against BTC. This should not be happening.

Too much emotion will lead you to sell low and buy high every time. Try to look at the bigger picture and stop trying to control what you can't.

BTC getting rejected and forming a lower high... you can't be surprised that alts, including DASH fall against BTC...

Dash is now 100$ resistance. I was thinked to invest some in dash but it seeming no movements now. And I m loosing trust on dashcoin.

[toknormal]

It's been mentioned people run Bitcoin full nodes for free. However they don't require the massive 1000 coin collateral like DASH does.

How does that justify a revenue straight out of the blockchain other than on a basis that's commercially competitive ? As price rises that profit simply keeps rising and rising without limit. Simply having the 1000 Dash balance there doesn't generate any revenue (unless you count mitigating sybil attacks as a 'revenue generation') activity.

Other coins have their supply locked up in wallets just the same as Dash. How is it that you think that having 5 BTC worth in a cold wallet on the Dash network entitles you to mine all day long at zero difficulty without consequences for the marketcap whereas having 5 BTC in a cold wallet on the bitcoin network doesn't ? There are over 10,000 wallets on the bitcoin network with over 150 BTC "locked up" in them. That's 30,000 Dash each.

Do you imagine how BTC's price would crash if it suddenly gave away half the coin supply for nothing to everyone with 5 BTC or more in a cold wallet instead of spending it on upwards difficulty adjustments ?