[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[AlexGR]

You have to keep in mind that this reversed hard fork was the only way to rescue VRC at all.
If the hard fork wouln't have done 1 person would have had over 30% of all coins existing and the coin would be dead because there the hole trust would have gone. VRC is pos.

if you think that way, they reconstruted trust in the coin itself.

Either way. It's unbelivable that something like that is even possible on a modern exchange.

MP fucked up hard.

Those theoretical flaws with POS coins are not so theoretical anymore, eh?

Thing is, these flaws that are now coming up where not even analyzed so much on the theoretical level. Of all the attack vectors that have been analyzed for PoS coins, there are two in particular which have been demonstrated in real life in a way that not many discussed beforehand...

1) Mining domination during the PoW distribution phase - where an exceedingly large amount of rented (or otherwise) hashpower acquires most of the coins of a new PoW/PoS coin and renders it DoA due to future 51% staking or future nothing-at-stake vector (after selling the coins).

2) Hacking a large exchange and rendering a PoS coin dead due to possible staking attack.

The first can be considered "ok" if the mining phase is completed without abnormalities... but the second is an uncertainty which will always loom. You can't tie a coin's future (not in terms of price, but in terms of utility) to whether an exchange will get hacked. This is a real possibility. And I don't know whether the attack is reversible with a rollback even if the hacked transaction is reversed, as now the hacker has a copy of the chain where he has the coins and can launch a nothing-at-stake attack in the future.

[Propulsion]

You have to keep in mind that this reversed hard fork was the only way to rescue VRC at all.
If the hard fork wouln't have done 1 person would have had over 30% of all coins existing and the coin would be dead because there the hole trust would have gone. VRC is pos.

if you think that way, they reconstruted trust in the coin itself.

Either way. It's unbelivable that something like that is even possible on a modern exchange.

MP fucked up hard.

Those theoretical flaws with POS coins are not so theoretical anymore, eh?

Thing is, these flaws that are now coming up where not even analyzed so much on the theoretical level. Of all the attack vectors that have been analyzed for PoS coins, there are two in particular which have been demonstrated in real life in a way that not many discussed beforehand...

1) Mining domination during the PoW distribution phase - where an exceedingly large amount of rented (or otherwise) hashpower acquires most of the coins of a new PoW/PoS coin and renders it DoA due to future 51% staking or future nothing-at-stake vector (after selling the coins).

2) Hacking a large exchange and rendering a PoS coin dead due to possible staking attack.

The first can be considered "ok" if the mining phase is completed without abnormalities... but the second is an uncertainty which will always loom. You can't tie a coin's future (not in terms of price, but in terms of utility) to whether an exchange will get hacked. This is a real possibility. And I don't know whether the attack is reversible with a rollback even if the hacked transaction is reversed, as now the hacker has a copy of the chain where he has the coins and can launch a nothing-at-stake attack in the future.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=694436.0

[bigc1984]

whats the new best exchange? cryptsy again?

Bitfinex hands down. The volume wasn't there before but it should migrate after Mintpal proved susceptible to sql injections. (Unofficially)

u have referrer code?

[Propulsion]

whats the new best exchange? cryptsy again?

Bitfinex hands down. The volume wasn't there before but it should migrate after Mintpal proved susceptible to sql injections. (Unofficially)

u have referrer code?

I'm sure I do. Give me a second to try to find it. 

[piyany]

whats the new best exchange? cryptsy again?

Bitfinex hands down. The volume wasn't there before but it should migrate after Mintpal proved susceptible to sql injections. (Unofficially)

u have referrer code?

I'm sure I do. Give me a second to try to find it. 

Can you post it here?

[CryptoPleb]

http://bitfinexreferrercode.com/

[Propulsion]

http://bitfinexreferrercode.com/

Lol, that's for that one guy. I just emailed Bitfinex to receive one. I'll post it when I get one.

[splawik21]

07/14 18:30:26   101989 [1][2][3]   x11ltc1btccom03   equlto: XiFSHNMaaskVXHRsvoRbMWPDEjrv2jt7uz   0.601000

can i conclude that they have updated to comply with the MN payments ?

It is the second time I got payment from ltc1btccom03 others 01,02,04 didn`t paid me .... time....

[salmion]

I think all the anti-mintpal talk is making the bots angry

[toknormal]

Any anonymous coin is going to have a significant amount of difficulty not running into trouble with government regulations in many countries

This is one of the most persistently mistaken assumptions made regarding anonymous coins.

First of all, cryptocurrencies are not and never will be "regulated" since there are no counterparties involved in an individual's interaction with the blockchain an therefore no subject for that regulation. Rather, it is the fiat and retail gateways that form the subject of regulation. We do not "own" or "hold" cryptocurrency in any formal sense other than while we have funds on an exchange. Once off the exchange and on a blockchain, we cease to be owners or holders with any objectively identifiable meaning.

Secondly, regulatory authorities are not likely to make a distinction between one cryptocurrency and another for 3 reasons:

[1] - given the 'legal ambiguity' background described above regarding ownership, they will view the whole cryptocurrency economy as being anonymous and regulate the gateways as such unless a mechanism can be found to associate blockchain addresses with individuals

[2] - from a technical point of view, anonymity is too ambiguous a property to form a distinction between one cryptocurrency and another. Put another way, it isn't a permanently defining property of any 'coin'. Anonymity can be added at a fork or removed. It can be partial, optional etc.

[3] - once your funds are "inside" the crypto-economy ring fence, they are almost seamlessly interchangeable - through exchanges - in a network without national borders and potentially well beyond the reach of any regulation. Just this fact alone leaves regulatory bodies no option but to treat all cryptocurrencies as one, where if the technology allows an opaque blockchain in any one, they all must be regulated accordingly

So the idea that opaque blockchains will be treated any differently from transparent ones is bogus. There is no material difference when it comes to potential regulatory exposure.

On the other hand, there *is* a difference when it comes to end users because one supports financial privacy across all transactions and the other potentially doesn't. End users have a choice where regulatory authorities don't. So the market *will* indeed make a distinction between opaque currencies and transparent ones which is why we can expect an ongoing favourable valuation in so called "anonymous" cryptos.
 

[Svener]

whats the new best exchange? cryptsy again?

Bitfinex hands down. The volume wasn't there before but it should migrate after Mintpal proved susceptible to sql injections. (Unofficially)

Mintpal will bounce back and if it doesn't I think Bittrex will be the main altcoin exchange.

[salmion]

whats the new best exchange? cryptsy again?

Bitfinex hands down. The volume wasn't there before but it should migrate after Mintpal proved susceptible to sql injections. (Unofficially)

Mintpal will bounce back and if it doesn't I think Bittrex will be the main altcoin exchange.

I think the moral of the story is we were lucky it wasn't us and don't keep lots of coins on ANY exchange.

[DogTheHunter]

 darkota, for example, is on my ignore list for some time now... so all I get from him is this.

he's last contribution seems to be providing some positive input? I thought it was quite helpful.

[shojayxt]

Any anonymous coin is going to have a significant amount of difficulty not running into trouble with government regulations in many countries

This is one of the most persistently mistaken assumptions made regarding anonymous coins.

First of all, cryptocurrencies are not and never will be "regulated" since there are no counterparties involved in an individual's interaction with the blockchain an therefore no subject for that regulation. Rather, it is the fiat and retail gateways that form the subject of regulation. We do not "own" or "hold" cryptocurrency in any formal sense other than while we have funds on an exchange. Once off the exchange and on a blockchain, we cease to be owners or holders with any objectively identifiable meaning.

Secondly, regulatory authorities are not likely to make a distinction between one cryptocurrency and another for 3 reasons:

[1] - given the 'legal ownership' background described above, they will view the whole cryptocurrency economy as being anonymous and regulate the gateways as such unless a mechanism can be found to associate blockchain addresses with individuals

[2] - from a technical point of view, anonymity is too ambiguous a property to form a distinction between one cryptocurrency and another. Put another way, it isn't a permanently defining property of any 'coin'. Anonymity can be added at a fork or removed. It can be partial, optional etc.

[3] - once your funds are "inside" the crypto-economy ring fence, they are almost seamlessly interchangeable - through exchanges - in a network without national borders and potentially well beyond the reach of any regulation. Just this fact alone leaves regulatory bodies no option but to treat all cryptocurrencies as one, where if the technology allows an opaque blockchain in any one, they all must be regulated accordingly

So the idea that opaque blockchains will be treated any differently from transparent ones is bogus. There is no material difference when it comes to potential regulatory exposure.

On the other hand, there *is* a difference when it comes to end users because one supports financial privacy across all transactions and the other potentially doesn't. So the market will indeed make a distinction between opaque currencies and transparent ones which is why we can expect an ongoing favourable valuation in so called "anonymous" cryptos.
 

Really?  Cryptocurrencies will never be regulated?  It's already happening.  I'm not making this up to start an argument.  Governments are actually starting to implement regulations governing cryptocurrencies.


French Government Outlines New Regulations for Bitcoin Market Transparency

Transparency cited by regulators

The new regulations require bitcoin “distributors” to identify and verify their users to limit the level of anonymity.
http://www.coindesk.com/french-government-outlines-new-regulations-bitcoin-market-transparency/



Italian Authorities Issue Bitcoin Warnings, Urge Regulation

Bitcoin regulation urged

Speaking in an interview with Ansa.it, Attorney General of Rome, Luigi Ciampoli, warned that bitcoin could be abused by criminals engaged in money laundering, financing of terrorism, or mafia activities. He urged for regulation that would allow authorities to trace and identify all persons involved in digital currency transactions.

Reda told Italian daily La Repubblica that bitcoin’s volatility poses a risk for investors and that its anonymity allows Italian residents to hold and transfer wealth anonymously.
http://www.coindesk.com/italian-authorities-issue-new-bitcoin-warnings-urge-regulation/


Argentinian Money Regulator Mandates Reporting on Bitcoin Activity

The UIF document, which outlines amendments to previous regulations, cites the threat of money laundering and criminal financing.
http://www.coindesk.com/argentinian-money-regulator-mandates-reporting-bitcoin-activity/

[Propulsion]

whats the new best exchange? cryptsy again?

Bitfinex hands down. The volume wasn't there before but it should migrate after Mintpal proved susceptible to sql injections. (Unofficially)

Mintpal will bounce back and if it doesn't I think Bittrex will be the main altcoin exchange.

I think the moral of the story is we were lucky it wasn't us and don't keep lots of coins on ANY exchange.

Exactly. Even more worrying is the fact that Mintpal never entered a maintenance mode after the security breach. I loved Mintpal, but this is the same as C-Cex with a different currency.

[darkota]

Regulation will come in the form of monitoring the exchanges cryptocurrencies are traded on. That's how cryptocurrencies will become regulated in a sense.

However, private transactions between individuals can't be regulated. It's only trading on the exchanges that will be regulated, and I don't understand how anyone could find fault with that.

[duckmuy]

Who are these retarded cunt fucks selling? Just fucking die already you fucking bags of dog shit.

[DogTheHunter]

tl;dr

I think you are both talking about the same thing, but are looking to point score against each other.

Crypto will be regulated. Cryptsy and other exchanges are now accepting USD for crypto, by way of one example.

Crytpo can be anonymous. Its all about how much information is left visible to track specific user identifiable information on the public viewable block chain.

Those two issues are not mutually exclusive.

[KryptoFoo]

whats the new best exchange? cryptsy again?

Bitfinex hands down. The volume wasn't there before but it should migrate after Mintpal proved susceptible to sql injections. (Unofficially)

Mintpal will bounce back and if it doesn't I think Bittrex will be the main altcoin exchange.

I think the moral of the story is we were lucky it wasn't us and don't keep lots of coins on ANY exchange.

I hope the story is over but fear there could be knock-on effects at mintpal if this turns into a crypto bank run on mintpal. If too many users start withdrawing their funds (BTC, DRK, etc), any underfunding problems will be exposed. We may soon find out if mintpal has been an honest exchange and maintains a positive capital reserve with their customer's funds. If we start seeing strange price action on certain coins at mintpal or if mintpal starts halting withdrawals for any reason, I will assume they are in bigger trouble then letting on.  

[toknormal]

Really?  Cryptocurrencies will never be regulated?  It's already happening.  I'm not making this up to start an argument.  Governments are actually starting to implement regulations governing cryptocurrencies.

If you re-read my post, please note where I said the "fiat and retail gateways" would be regulated.

All the examples you cite relate to these. In particular in the name of "limiting anonymity" - again I said they'd try to do that in my post..."unless a mechanism can be found to associate blockchain addresses with individuals"

For example, the article about French regulation cites bitcoin "distributors" - i.e. exchanges and the like.

Another example you cite is the impending imposition of capital gains tax on crypto. That is actually a regulation which applies to fiat - not crypto because your taxable income is measured in dollars  euros and you generally pay capital gains on realised gains.

There is also nothing in your examples about a distinction being made between opaque and transparent blockchains.