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Author Topic: DefaultTrust changes  (Read 42984 times)
Gunthar
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February 08, 2019, 09:43:05 AM
 #1281

~snip
Yes ofc thinking loud about an ideal system with a community that reached its maturity: there are many filters to apply while this process grows, some of them are already in here, i.e. a minimum membership rank/merit/trust point in order to be able to tag someone (green or red doesnt matter)

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KingZee
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February 08, 2019, 09:49:58 AM
 #1282


That is because of the current trust system. I believe Gunthar was trying to address a system without any form of DT, just community feedback (similar to eBay).

I've suggested a completely decentralized system multiple times. The more people keep arguing on trivialities here, the more I'm starting to think it's better than the current system.

The "problems" everyone keeps bringing up with my system :

1. You can't verify that transactions happened. Some people can leave fake feedback for money that was never risked. You gave an example with Ebay, well Ebay transactions are all true. Imo that's a valid concern, but then again, no one is stopping current DT1/2 members from straight up lying as well and leaving fake positive feedback. Who's going to verify those txes?

2. Leaving feedback for non-money transactions. You know, you have to tag ponzi scammers and funny lending section sobbers. (For my system) It's possible to create a default "empty shell" feedback for similar tags. If a high trusted member leaves an empty shell, it means something, unlike if a newbie does it, and so on.

But good luck convincing people that the current system is heading towards a centralized DT controlled by less people than it actually looks like. But maybe I'm wrong, it's only been a few weeks, and so far there's still a diverse amount of people in control that I hope it won't be the case.

LFC_Bitcoin
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February 08, 2019, 02:45:12 PM
 #1283

I put a certain established poster here in my personalised trust list last night. I’ve signed into btctalk.org today & checked who trusts me etc & it seems the following users have distrusted me presumably as a result of putting said established poster in my trust list -

LFC_Bitcoin is Distrusted by:
Thule (20 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
endlasuresh (3 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
DutchFinity (2 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
Danica22 (0 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
ac2eugenio (1 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
Bazinga442 (21 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
Deena (37 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
mr.creampie (10 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
chickinini (11 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
cryptorgasm (4 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
TinaMoran (10 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
Pablojob (10 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
PiningGarcia (10 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
PingGermoco (10 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
NilaMutac (10 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
cryptopov (4 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
poypototoy (10 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
Zin-Zang (10 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
H8bussesNbicycles (5 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
gwsukabokepjepang (0 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)

I’d like to make it clear that I don’t believe I’ve interacted with any of these cunts.
I now have more people distrusting me than people who trust me.

Anybody else been a victim of a ‘mass distrust’ in a short period of time despite being a perfectly honest member of the community?




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bones261
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February 08, 2019, 02:50:54 PM
 #1284

I put a certain established poster here in my personalised trust list last night. I’ve signed into btctalk.org today & checked who trusts me etc & it seems the following users have distrusted me presumably as a result of putting said established poster in my trust list -

LFC_Bitcoin is Distrusted by:
Thule (20 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
endlasuresh (3 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
DutchFinity (2 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
Danica22 (0 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
ac2eugenio (1 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
Bazinga442 (21 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
Deena (37 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
mr.creampie (10 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
chickinini (11 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
cryptorgasm (4 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
TinaMoran (10 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
Pablojob (10 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
PiningGarcia (10 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
PingGermoco (10 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
NilaMutac (10 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
cryptopov (4 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
poypototoy (10 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
Zin-Zang (10 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
H8bussesNbicycles (5 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
gwsukabokepjepang (0 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)

I’d like to make it clear that I don’t believe I’ve interacted with any of these cunts.
I now have more people distrusting me than people who trust me.

Anybody else been a victim of a ‘mass distrust’ in a short period of time despite being a perfectly honest member of the community?

Yes, the thread appears here. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5103988.0 Basically, if you list Lauda on your trust list, these people distrust you on their trust list.

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Quickseller
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February 08, 2019, 02:51:16 PM
 #1285

I put a certain established poster here in my personalised trust list last night. I’ve signed into btctalk.org today & checked who trusts me etc & it seems the following users have distrusted me presumably as a result of putting said established poster in my trust list -

LFC_Bitcoin is Distrusted by:
Thule (20 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
endlasuresh (3 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
DutchFinity (2 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
Danica22 (0 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
ac2eugenio (1 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
Bazinga442 (21 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
Deena (37 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
mr.creampie (10 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
chickinini (11 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
cryptorgasm (4 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
TinaMoran (10 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
Pablojob (10 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
PiningGarcia (10 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
PingGermoco (10 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
NilaMutac (10 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
cryptopov (4 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
poypototoy (10 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
Zin-Zang (10 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
H8bussesNbicycles (5 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
gwsukabokepjepang (0 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)

I’d like to make it clear that I don’t believe I’ve interacted with any of these cunts.
I now have more people distrusting me than people who trust me.

Anybody else been a victim of a ‘mass distrust’ in a short period of time despite being a perfectly honest member of the community?
I presume you are referring to putting lauda in your trust list.

I speculate these people are distrusting you because you have a known extortionist, and someone who has been unwilling to account for over a million dollars they were holding as escrow.

Perhaps you can add a ~ in front of lauda

Do you think I am spamming? If so, you're probably wrong.
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February 08, 2019, 02:51:36 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1), LFC_Bitcoin (1)
 #1286

I put a certain established poster here in my personalised trust list last night. I’ve signed into btctalk.org today & checked who trusts me etc & it seems the following users have distrusted me presumably as a result of putting said established poster in my trust list -

~snip

I’d like to make it clear that I don’t believe I’ve interacted with any of these cunts.
I now have more people distrusting me than people who trust me.

Anybody else been a victim of a ‘mass distrust’ in a short period of time despite being a perfectly honest member of the community?

I'm on their list too but not to worry. It's just a lot of noise over nothing as their trust lists matter about as much as what I had for dinner last night. I have not even bothered to put any of them on my distrust just due to the fact of how irrelevant they are. But, to each their own. Don't be discouraged Smiley

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February 08, 2019, 02:58:15 PM
 #1287

I put a certain established poster here in my personalised trust list last night. I’ve signed into btctalk.org today & checked who trusts me etc & it seems the following users have distrusted me presumably as a result of putting said established poster in my trust list -

~snip

I’d like to make it clear that I don’t believe I’ve interacted with any of these cunts.
I now have more people distrusting me than people who trust me.

Anybody else been a victim of a ‘mass distrust’ in a short period of time despite being a perfectly honest member of the community?

I'm on their list too but not to worry. It's just a lot of noise over nothing as their trust lists matter about as much as what I had for dinner last night. I have not even bothered to put any of them on my distrust just due to the fact of how irrelevant they are. But, to each their own. Don't be discouraged Smiley

Me too. And to think the entire point of being able to customize your trust list was so that you could have a custom trust list  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Frankly I think its dumb to copy/paste trust lists in lieu of using one's own brain, but whatever... One of the great perks of the forum is that people have the freedom to be robots if they so choose.

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.L I V E C O I N . N E T.
.
..PROFITBOX..
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February 08, 2019, 02:59:09 PM
 #1288

I put a certain established poster here in my personalised trust list last night. I’ve signed into btctalk.org today & checked who trusts me etc & it seems the following users have distrusted me presumably as a result of putting said established poster in my trust list -

~snip

I’d like to make it clear that I don’t believe I’ve interacted with any of these cunts.
I now have more people distrusting me than people who trust me.

Anybody else been a victim of a ‘mass distrust’ in a short period of time despite being a perfectly honest member of the community?

I'm on their list too but not to worry. It's just a lot of noise over nothing as their trust lists matter about as much as what I had for dinner last night. I have not even bothered to put any of them on my distrust just due to the fact of how irrelevant they are. But, to each their own. Don't be discouraged Smiley

How much does it count against myself when it gets calculated?

Most of them are shitty butthurt newbies, how did they even get 10 Merit’s  Roll Eyes

@Quickseller - Lauda does a lot of good things here as you do yourself. You were a brilliant scam buster, you self escrowed but I’m not going to ~ you because I feel you add positives here also.




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February 08, 2019, 03:07:45 PM
Merited by LFC_Bitcoin (1), o_e_l_e_o (1)
 #1289

...

Perhaps this will shed a little light on the situation : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5103988.0

I've tried discussing with the people involved in that thread to no success. I have only had my posts deleted when trying to be productive and helpful.

I have already been a "victim" of their mass-exclusions as well, because it would seem they are rather indiscriminate and unwilling to contend with dissenting opinion.

They're meriting each other to get DT votes and it will begin to "count against" you if/when they make it into DT1. At least that's my understanding.
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February 08, 2019, 03:09:40 PM
 #1290

...

Perhaps this will shed a little light on the situation : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5103988.0

I've tried discussing with the people involved in that thread to no success. I have only had my posts deleted when trying to be productive and helpful.

I have already been a "victim" of their mass-exclusions as well, because it would seem they are rather indiscriminate and unwilling to contend with dissenting opinion.

They're meriting each other to get DT votes and it will begin to "count against" you if/when they make it into DT1. At least that's my understanding.

That’s fucking terrible




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February 08, 2019, 03:22:05 PM
 #1291

He doesn't need to personally nit pick every case, or really any, but by setting a comparatively very objective standard for leaving a negative rating the VAST majority of conflict is simply avoided.

There will be no hindrance of stopping scammers, but in fact it will be easier to spot them as they don't blend in in a sea of red. Also people will feel more comfortable contributing to a community where they don't have to worry about everything being taken away over some petty squabble at any instant.

I agree with this, the more people adopt this system the more it will balance itself. Initially it might appear a Cats vs Dogs drama, the more people adding their trusts/distrusts the more our personal "reputation" would form based on objective observations from the community. I might be able to plot with a bunch of people against Cats for 1 month, maybe 2/3/6 months, but the real value of cats and dogs will come out overtime. Personally I woudnt even give power to any DT level indeed: the sum of someone Trust would then come out based on the entire community feedback. Scary? Behave then...

I don't think that would work. Let's say I piss off a scammer by sending negative feedback, what would stop him from creating/using a bunch of alt-accounts to wreck my trust level? I like the idea of a non-DT system since the latest DT changes have caused a lot of childish behaviour.

If the standard is to present evidence with a negative rating, then since he has none it will be disregarded and they will be excluded by the community. The system I am proposing would be under a DT system but I am not opposed to just wiping the DT out completely as I feel it does more harm than good.

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February 08, 2019, 03:29:12 PM
Merited by OgNasty (1), LFC_Bitcoin (1)
 #1292

...

Perhaps this will shed a little light on the situation : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5103988.0

I've tried discussing with the people involved in that thread to no success. I have only had my posts deleted when trying to be productive and helpful.

I have already been a "victim" of their mass-exclusions as well, because it would seem they are rather indiscriminate and unwilling to contend with dissenting opinion.

They're meriting each other to get DT votes and it will begin to "count against" you if/when they make it into DT1. At least that's my understanding.

That’s fucking terrible

Theymos actually engaged in the first un-meriting as far as I know due to this, wiping out a bunch of merits given by Stingers (who was also removed as a merit source).

From cryptohunter's merit history:



I think this is some kind of historical moment.

......
.L I V E C O I N . N E T.
.
..PROFITBOX..
██  █████████████████████████
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████  █████▀  ▄▄  ▀█  ▀██████
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  ███████████████████████████
.....
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February 08, 2019, 03:30:56 PM
Merited by LFC_Bitcoin (1)
 #1293

Perhaps this will shed a little light on the situation : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5103988.0
[...]
They're meriting each other to get DT votes and it will begin to "count against" you if/when they make it into DT1.
That’s fucking terrible
It's actually an interesting experiment.
If they were to succeed, that would be an example of where the current DT "voting system" fails.
An immediate remedial action could be blacklisting by theymos, so I somehow fail to see the "terror" Wink
If such malpractice were to catch on, otoh, theymos might have to find a more permanent solution.

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February 08, 2019, 03:33:02 PM
Merited by OgNasty (2), TECSHARE (1)
 #1294

There was a lot of merit-fixing that went on during the first week or so of merit being introduced, but you might be right as far as something like this is concerned.

The problem is that like a potent disease these users will adapt. The reasoning behind the removal can easily be skirted and it will likely not happen again in the future, even though clear manipulation will continue.

It's actually an interesting experiment.

Well, that I can agree with Tongue
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February 08, 2019, 03:35:25 PM
 #1295

There was a lot of merit-fixing that went on during the first week or so of merit being introduced, but you might be right as far as something like this is concerned.

The problem is that like a potent disease these users will adapt. The reasoning behind the removal can easily be skirted and it will likely not happen again in the future, even though clear manipulation will continue.

It's actually an interesting experiment.

Well, that I can agree with Tongue

They should all be nuked, let’s face it they’re all scamming, shit accounts that add literally nothing to the community.

This is a really good quote -

‘The problem is that like a potent disease these users will adapt’.





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February 08, 2019, 03:41:29 PM
 #1296

The problem with that is that they haven't done anything that would involve trading and Trust is meant to be a representation of your Marketplace Feedback. Theymos has pointed out that this, in his opinion, is an inappropriate usage of the trust system and probably believes more along the lines of what qwk has said; it would be evidence that the new system isn't doing it's job.

They're being public with their intentions and actions (for the most part). They're just playing petty politics in a disgusting manner. It is certainly harmful to the forum from where I'm standing, but in my opinion the most appropriate response would be excluding these users and allow the system to do what it is meant to do.
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February 08, 2019, 03:48:08 PM
 #1297

The problem with that is that they haven't done anything that would involve trading and Trust is meant to be a representation of your Marketplace Feedback. Theymos has pointed out that this, in his opinion, is an inappropriate usage of the trust system and probably believes more along the lines of what qwk has said; it would be evidence that the new system isn't doing it's job.

They're being public with their intentions and actions (for the most part). They're just playing petty politics in a disgusting manner. It is certainly harmful to the forum from where I'm standing, but in my opinion the most appropriate response would be excluding these users and allow the system to do what it is meant to do.

That’s exactly what I’ve done. I’d advise everybody else reading this to -

~Thule (20 Merit earned)
~endlasuresh (3 Merit earned)
~DutchFinity (2 Merit earned)
~Danica22 (0 Merit earned)
~ac2eugenio (1 Merit earned)
~Bazinga442 (21 Merit earned)
~Deena (37 Merit earned)
~mr.creampie (10 Merit earned)
~chickinini (11 Merit earned)
~cryptorgasm (4 Merit earned)
~TinaMoran (10 Merit earned)
~Pablojob (10 Merit earned)
~PiningGarcia (10 Merit earned)
~PingGermoco (10 Merit earned)
~NilaMutac (10 Merit earned)
~cryptopov (4 Merit earned)
~poypototoy (10 Merit earned)
~Zin-Zang (10 Merit earned)
~H8bussesNbicycles (5 Merit earned)
~gwsukabokepjepang (0 Merit earned)

Edit - The above is what I can see so far but their numbers will possibly grow.




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February 08, 2019, 03:50:26 PM
 #1298

The problem with that is that they haven't done anything that would involve trading and Trust is meant to be a representation of your Marketplace Feedback. Theymos has pointed out that this, in his opinion, is an inappropriate usage of the trust system and probably believes more along the lines of what qwk has said; it would be evidence that the new system isn't doing it's job.

They're being public with their intentions and actions (for the most part). They're just playing petty politics in a disgusting manner. It is certainly harmful to the forum from where I'm standing, but in my opinion the most appropriate response would be excluding these users and allow the system to do what it is meant to do.

The problem with that logic is if this standard were universally applied, it would also apply to lots of people already on DT. Of course every one knows there are no such thing as rules that apply to everyone around here...

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February 08, 2019, 03:55:52 PM
 #1299

I put a certain established poster here in my personalised trust list last night. I’ve signed into btctalk.org today & checked who trusts me etc & it seems the following users have distrusted me presumably as a result of putting said established poster in my trust list -
Assuming you used loyce.club/trust for the data: last night's action didn't cause this. The data is based on last Saturday's data dump.

Also, please use the BBCode to copy trust lists to the forum, it's much better!

LoyceV on the road (or in bed, couch, ....). Don't deal with this account (there's one exception), I use it on untrusted devices.
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February 08, 2019, 03:56:40 PM
 #1300

The problem with that is that they haven't done anything that would involve trading and Trust is meant to be a representation of your Marketplace Feedback. Theymos has pointed out that this, in his opinion, is an inappropriate usage of the trust system and probably believes more along the lines of what qwk has said; it would be evidence that the new system isn't doing it's job.

They're being public with their intentions and actions (for the most part). They're just playing petty politics in a disgusting manner. It is certainly harmful to the forum from where I'm standing, but in my opinion the most appropriate response would be excluding these users and allow the system to do what it is meant to do.

The problem with that logic is if this standard were universally applied, it would also apply to lots of people already on DT. Of course every one knows there are no such thing as rules that apply to everyone around here...

It harms those of us who are in the middle like myself.

I’m trusted by about 10 people. I put Lauda in my trust list & then BANG I check & I have 12 or so distrusting me.

Ridiculous.


Assuming you used loyce.club/trust for the data: last night's action didn't cause this. The data is based on last Saturday's data dump.

Also, please use the BBCode to copy trust lists to the forum, it's much better!

In which case there are probably more of the snakes distrusting me by now.




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