Test Cricket Prediction and Discussion Thread [self - mod]

[Sithara007]

Moeen Ali is leaving but they have Dom Bess who performed well in the first match but to my surprise he was not picked they picked Jack Leach who was hammered by Pant and they are the spinning options for England for the rest of the tour. Toss will be a factor and the team winning to toss will elect to bat and that is the best option in Asian conditions.

Bess bowled poorly during the second test of the first match, although he picked up important wickets in the first innings. He bowled too many full-tosses and most of them were put away to the boundary (especially by Virat Kohli and Shubman Gill). And Leach picked up 4 wickets in the second innings, including those of Rohit Sharma and Cheteshwar Pujara. This was the reason why he was preferred ahead of Bess.

[JSRAW]

Indian Squad for last 2 tests.


https://twitter.com/BCCI/status/1361974661613948928

TEAM - Virat Kohli (Capt), Rohit Sharma, Mayank Agarwal, Shubman Gill, Cheteshwar Pujara, Ajinkya Rahane (vc), KL Rahul, Hardik Pandya, Rishabh Pant (wk), Wriddhiman Saha (wk), R Ashwin, Kuldeep Yadav, Axar Patel, Washington Sundar, Ishant Sharma, Jasprit Bumrah, Md. Siraj.

Umesh Yadav will join the team in Ahmedabad and after his fitness assessment will replace Shardul Thakur, who will be released for Vijay Hazare Trophy.

Net bowlers

The Committee also picked five net bowlers and two players as standbys.

Net Bowlers: Ankit Rajpoot, Avesh Khan, Sandeep Warrier, Krishnappa Gowtham, Saurabh Kumar

Standby players: KS Bharat, Rahul Chahar.

England Squad for the next test.

Moeen Ali looked good with the ball and bat as match progressed but he's going back, due to rotation policy or voluntary taking leave, no one knows for sure. Except dodgy comments from the management so bit weird. Many English experts, former players are not impressed with the decision. 

https://www.ecb.co.uk/news/2031556

England squad : Joe Root (c), James Anderson, Jofra Archer, Jonny Bairstow, Dominic Bess, Stuart Broad, Rory Burns, Zak Crawley, Ben Foakes, Dan Lawrence, Jack Leach, Ollie Pope, Dom Sibley, Ben Stokes, Olly Stone, Chris Woakes, Mark Wood.

[bryant.coleman]

Rather than the case of Moeen, I am more concerned with Broad/Anderson. These two bowlers need to play at least 3 out of the 4 tests and they perform the best when both of them are in the playing XI. I would even recommend England to go with three pacers for the third test, as Ollie Stone looked impressive in the second test. Their spinners are not doing well.. and it won't be a bad idea to include one more pacer.

[JSRAW]

Rather than the case of Moeen, I am more concerned with Broad/Anderson. These two bowlers need to play at least 3 out of the 4 tests and they perform the best when both of them are in the playing XI. I would even recommend England to go with three pacers for the third test, as Ollie Stone looked impressive in the second test. Their spinners are not doing well.. and it won't be a bad idea to include one more pacer.

Bowling combination for both team will depend on the pitch. Anderson is 38 years old and playing every game is too much for him. My guess is Anderson-Archer will play the next game and if its seaming wicket then may be 1 more fast bowler (Ollie Stone).

@eaLiTy mentioned that in Ranji game Pink ball favored the spin but last time India played pink ball test in Kolkata against Bangladesh, Indian Pacers took 19 wickets out of 20, 1 player got retd hurt, on the other hand Ashwin-Jadeja duo didn't even get to ball much.

This Motera stadium is new so no one really know about the pitch condition so let's wait and watch.
 

[Vishnu.Reang]

Bowling combination for both team will depend on the pitch. Anderson is 38 years old and playing every game is too much for him. My guess is Anderson-Archer will play the next game and if its seaming wicket then may be 1 more fast bowler (Ollie Stone).

@eaLiTy mentioned that in Ranji game Pink ball favored the spin but last time India played pink ball test in Kolkata against Bangladesh, Indian Pacers took 19 wickets out of 20, 1 player got retd hurt, on the other hand Ashwin-Jadeja duo didn't even get to ball much.

This Motera stadium is new so no one really know about the pitch condition so let's wait and watch.

With Ashwin in such splendid form, it will be foolish to assume that the curators will prepare a pitch that would offer even the slightest advantage to the pacers. D/N test matches have historically supported the pace bowlers, but as you have mentioned it is a new stadium and we don't know much about the ground conditions. If the pitch offers some bounce, then Archer would be lethal. Archer-Stone combination may cause a lot of trouble, as both of them have the ability to bowl above 150 kmph.

All that said, the toss is going to have a huge impact. If England wins the toss, then it is going to be 50/50. On the other hand, if India wins the toss, it is going to be 90/10 in favor of the Indians. Unless one of the England batsmen finds a way to take on Ashwin/Axar, they don't have any chance for the remainder of this series. Bowlers alone can't do the job. They need support from the batsmen as well.

[JSRAW]

^^ I am in favor of turner wickets in India at least for International test match, no matter who cry or pushing the idea that spin wickets are bad for the test cricket. Even if it backfires and India end up losing game. Test cricket need diverse wickets, if every wickets is seam / batting friendly then where would spinner go in the test cricket?

Good article from former Indian cricketer (female).
https://www.hindustantimes.com/cricket/hot-days-and-dry-wickets-aren-t-bad-just-different-101613441880045.html

[Juggy777]

^^ I am in favor of turner wickets in India at least for International test match, no matter who cry or pushing the idea that spin wickets are bad for the test cricket. Even if it backfires and India end up losing game. Test cricket need diverse wickets, if every wickets is seam / batting friendly then where would spinner go in the test cricket?

Good article from former Indian cricketer (female).
https://www.hindustantimes.com/cricket/hot-days-and-dry-wickets-aren-t-bad-just-different-101613441880045.html

@JSRAW in the past India used to make sure that all their home pitches were spin friendly, but in recent years their fast bowlers department grew and suddenly they decided to make pitches which suit fast bowlers too. Lastly I feel that your point is valid, and as we witnessed in the recent test team India needs spin friendly pitches to procure a result.

Sources:

https://www.hindustantimes.com/cricket/india-vs-england-there-is-a-normal-spin-on-offer-axar-patel-reckons-chepauk-track-behaving-normally-critics-need-to-change-their-mindset-101613403004889.html

https://www.thehindu.com/sport/cricket/India-refrains-from-preparing-overly-spin-friendly-pitches/article16694369.ece

https://scroll.in/field/987089/chennai-pitch-debate-why-should-spin-take-effect-only-later-in-a-test-but-seaming-tracks-are-fine

[bryant.coleman]

^^ I am in favor of turner wickets in India at least for International test match, no matter who cry or pushing the idea that spin wickets are bad for the test cricket. Even if it backfires and India end up losing game. Test cricket need diverse wickets, if every wickets is seam / batting friendly then where would spinner go in the test cricket?

Good article from former Indian cricketer (female).
https://www.hindustantimes.com/cricket/hot-days-and-dry-wickets-aren-t-bad-just-different-101613441880045.html

I have a different opinion on this. Even the pitches in SENA countries are no longer supportive of pace bowling as it used to be. WACA and Kingsmead used to be fast bowler's paradise and if a team managed to make more than 200 runs in an innings there, it used to be regarded as exceptional performance. But times have changed and pitches that once supported pace bowlers have become flatter. Perhaps that is the reason why we no longer have legendary pacers of the calibre of Alan Donald, Glen McGrath, Curtly Ambrose, Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis.

[mersal]

^^ I am in favor of turner wickets in India at least for International test match, no matter who cry or pushing the idea that spin wickets are bad for the test cricket. Even if it backfires and India end up losing game. Test cricket need diverse wickets, if every wickets is seam / batting friendly then where would spinner go in the test cricket?

Good article from former Indian cricketer (female).
https://www.hindustantimes.com/cricket/hot-days-and-dry-wickets-aren-t-bad-just-different-101613441880045.html

@JSRAW in the past India used to make sure that all their home pitches were spin friendly, but in recent years their fast bowlers department grew and suddenly they decided to make pitches which suit fast bowlers too. Lastly I feel that your point is valid, and as we witnessed in the recent test team India needs spin friendly pitches to procure a result.

Sources:

https://www.hindustantimes.com/cricket/india-vs-england-there-is-a-normal-spin-on-offer-axar-patel-reckons-chepauk-track-behaving-normally-critics-need-to-change-their-mindset-101613403004889.html

https://www.thehindu.com/sport/cricket/India-refrains-from-preparing-overly-spin-friendly-pitches/article16694369.ece

https://scroll.in/field/987089/chennai-pitch-debate-why-should-spin-take-effect-only-later-in-a-test-but-seaming-tracks-are-fine

It depends on the stadium the match is about to happen, there are pitches that support pacers but the Chennai pitch is more likely to be spin-friendly than any other department. I guess this is the first match is going to happen on the Ahmedabad  newly built stadium so the pitch report is ging to be unpredictable until the match day for sure.

[Vishnu.Reang]

It depends on the stadium the match is about to happen, there are pitches that support pacers but the Chennai pitch is more likely to be spin-friendly than any other department. I guess this is the first match is going to happen on the Ahmedabad  newly built stadium so the pitch report is ging to be unpredictable until the match day for sure.

Only a few surfaces in India, such as the ones in Mohali and Dharamshala are supportive of pace bowling. All the others are either flat tracks or turning ones. We don't know much about the surface at Motera, but I suspect that it will be similar to the other surfaces in India. Even if the track offers seam movement, the Indian management will make sure that it supports the spinners as well.

[JSRAW]

^^ I am in favor of turner wickets in India at least for International test match, no matter who cry or pushing the idea that spin wickets are bad for the test cricket. Even if it backfires and India end up losing game. Test cricket need diverse wickets, if every wickets is seam / batting friendly then where would spinner go in the test cricket?

Good article from former Indian cricketer (female).
https://www.hindustantimes.com/cricket/hot-days-and-dry-wickets-aren-t-bad-just-different-101613441880045.html

@JSRAW in the past India used to make sure that all their home pitches were spin friendly, but in recent years their fast bowlers department grew and suddenly they decided to make pitches which suit fast bowlers too. Lastly I feel that your point is valid, and as we witnessed in the recent test team India needs spin friendly pitches to procure a result.

My main point is how to exploit visiting team weakness, if that's not the case then don't invite any SENA country and play in their own backyard. Eng, SA, NZ, Aus does the same, i am fanatic as far as test cricket goes so i remember almost every humiliating defeat and win in SENA countries. India did figured out Aussie conditions in recent tours tho. Question is how long imperial force England would decide which pitch is good and which is not, this need to change at any cost. Test cricket is all about testing the batsmen or bowlers. Subcontinent batsmen, Fans and spinners never complain about pitches in England or SENA countries. We always criticize our batsmen never the pitch condition. Why not apply the same criteria apply to SENA countries when they visit India.

~snip~

I have a different opinion on this. Even the pitches in SENA countries are no longer supportive of pace bowling as it used to be. WACA and Kingsmead used to be fast bowler's paradise and if a team managed to make more than 200 runs in an innings there, it used to be regarded as exceptional performance. But times have changed and pitches that once supported pace bowlers have become flatter. Perhaps that is the reason why we no longer have legendary pacers of the calibre of Alan Donald, Glen McGrath, Curtly Ambrose, Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis.

It would be good if you ask this question to Sri Lanka or Pakistan (how they won and lost).

[onrise]

It depends on the stadium the match is about to happen, there are pitches that support pacers but the Chennai pitch is more likely to be spin-friendly than any other department. I guess this is the first match is going to happen on the Ahmedabad  newly built stadium so the pitch report is ging to be unpredictable until the match day for sure.

Only a few surfaces in India, such as the ones in Mohali and Dharamshala are supportive of pace bowling. All the others are either flat tracks or turning ones. We don't know much about the surface at Motera, but I suspect that it will be similar to the other surfaces in India. Even if the track offers seam movement, the Indian management will make sure that it supports the spinners as well.

Since its going to be day/night test match it may be little different than the normal days played in the daytime. But overall should be a good pitch and hopefully we can enjoy the test match which some great bowling and batting form both sides. The advantage will always be with India as a home ground, England would be better since in morning few hours in sun they would not have to play. We might see Umesh Yadav playing the test if his fitness is cleared.

[bryant.coleman]

I have a different opinion on this. Even the pitches in SENA countries are no longer supportive of pace bowling as it used to be. WACA and Kingsmead used to be fast bowler's paradise and if a team managed to make more than 200 runs in an innings there, it used to be regarded as exceptional performance. But times have changed and pitches that once supported pace bowlers have become flatter. Perhaps that is the reason why we no longer have legendary pacers of the calibre of Alan Donald, Glen McGrath, Curtly Ambrose, Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis.

It would be good if you ask this question to Sri Lanka or Pakistan (how they won and lost).

I don't have an issue with teams preparing surfaces that suit them. My issue is that the role of tear-away pacers are getting reduced with every passing year. In the past, we had a great number of good fast bowlers. But due to the priority being given to shorter formats such as T20, and to an extent the teams preparing flat surfaces, we are no longer getting to watch such bowlers. Is it even possible to name one current pace bowler, who can match legends such as McGrath, Steyn, Donald.etc?

[teosanru]

I have a different opinion on this. Even the pitches in SENA countries are no longer supportive of pace bowling as it used to be. WACA and Kingsmead used to be fast bowler's paradise and if a team managed to make more than 200 runs in an innings there, it used to be regarded as exceptional performance. But times have changed and pitches that once supported pace bowlers have become flatter. Perhaps that is the reason why we no longer have legendary pacers of the calibre of Alan Donald, Glen McGrath, Curtly Ambrose, Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis.

It would be good if you ask this question to Sri Lanka or Pakistan (how they won and lost).

I don't have an issue with teams preparing surfaces that suit them. My issue is that the role of tear-away pacers are getting reduced with every passing year. In the past, we had a great number of good fast bowlers. But due to the priority being given to shorter formats such as T20, and to an extent the teams preparing flat surfaces, we are no longer getting to watch such bowlers. Is it even possible to name one current pace bowler, who can match legends such as McGrath, Steyn, Donald.etc?

I think we won't get that kind of bowlers again. That type of bowling is actually dead. There are multiple reasons for this. One is obviously flat surfaces as you have mentioned. The second very strange reason is fitness. I have not seen any pace bowler these days who has been able to remain injury free for a long time and this is a department where lot of players have faced trouble despite of the fact that players these days take extra caution about their health. But we have to change ourselves and settle down with the fact that pace bowling has changed now and it's more about making each and every ball count these days as you have limited overs to ball. I think we should take this positively instead of merely cribbing about this fact.

[GbitG]

I have a different opinion on this. Even the pitches in SENA countries are no longer supportive of pace bowling as it used to be. WACA and Kingsmead used to be fast bowler's paradise and if a team managed to make more than 200 runs in an innings there, it used to be regarded as exceptional performance. But times have changed and pitches that once supported pace bowlers have become flatter. Perhaps that is the reason why we no longer have legendary pacers of the calibre of Alan Donald, Glen McGrath, Curtly Ambrose, Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis.

It would be good if you ask this question to Sri Lanka or Pakistan (how they won and lost).

I don't have an issue with teams preparing surfaces that suit them. My issue is that the role of tear-away pacers are getting reduced with every passing year. In the past, we had a great number of good fast bowlers. But due to the priority being given to shorter formats such as T20, and to an extent the teams preparing flat surfaces, we are no longer getting to watch such bowlers. Is it even possible to name one current pace bowler, who can match legends such as McGrath, Steyn, Donald.etc?

I think we won't get that kind of bowlers again. That type of bowling is actually dead. There are multiple reasons for this. One is obviously flat surfaces as you have mentioned. The second very strange reason is fitness. I have not seen any pace bowler these days who has been able to remain injury free for a long time and this is a department where lot of players have faced trouble despite of the fact that players these days take extra caution about their health. But we have to change ourselves and settle down with the fact that pace bowling has changed now and it's more about making each and every ball count these days as you have limited overs to ball. I think we should take this positively instead of merely cribbing about this fact.

Here I agree with you as now we are watching last legendary bowling pairs in shape of Anderson and Broad otherwise now we will not able to have bowlers with skills like this too many leagues greediness about money is also big factors so few records are going to stay for very long time stamina is going to be not good for next generation as they are not doing hard work like past bowlers is also issue but too much money is very serious concern.

[Sithara007]

I think we won't get that kind of bowlers again. That type of bowling is actually dead. There are multiple reasons for this. One is obviously flat surfaces as you have mentioned. The second very strange reason is fitness. I have not seen any pace bowler these days who has been able to remain injury free for a long time and this is a department where lot of players have faced trouble despite of the fact that players these days take extra caution about their health. But we have to change ourselves and settle down with the fact that pace bowling has changed now and it's more about making each and every ball count these days as you have limited overs to ball. I think we should take this positively instead of merely cribbing about this fact.

Have to agree. We have seen how Steyn's career got destroyed by injury issues after such a promising start. And he was a big failure in the T20 format, despite his impressive statistics in the test matches. Nowadays, the pace bowlers have very short run-up (like Jasprit Bumrah) and they don't try to take wicket off every ball they bowl. It is another question whether we should take this positively or not.

[JSRAW]

I have a different opinion on this. Even the pitches in SENA countries are no longer supportive of pace bowling as it used to be. WACA and Kingsmead used to be fast bowler's paradise and if a team managed to make more than 200 runs in an innings there, it used to be regarded as exceptional performance. But times have changed and pitches that once supported pace bowlers have become flatter. Perhaps that is the reason why we no longer have legendary pacers of the calibre of Alan Donald, Glen McGrath, Curtly Ambrose, Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis.

It would be good if you ask this question to Sri Lanka or Pakistan (how they won and lost).

I don't have an issue with teams preparing surfaces that suit them. My issue is that the role of tear-away pacers are getting reduced with every passing year. In the past, we had a great number of good fast bowlers. But due to the priority being given to shorter formats such as T20, and to an extent the teams preparing flat surfaces, we are no longer getting to watch such bowlers. Is it even possible to name one current pace bowler, who can match legends such as McGrath, Steyn, Donald.etc?

You're changing goal post now.

Anyway, before cricketer used to play max 100ish day of cricket every year but nowadays workload doubled for everyone and i think this believe comes through our bias. Every generation thinks that their timeline was golden period, if we ask same question to younger people in their early 20s or newly adults, they would say Bumrah, Cummins, Archer, Rabada are flag bearers of pace in the modern cricket and old guy like Anderson still kicking in.

[teosanru]

I have a different opinion on this. Even the pitches in SENA countries are no longer supportive of pace bowling as it used to be. WACA and Kingsmead used to be fast bowler's paradise and if a team managed to make more than 200 runs in an innings there, it used to be regarded as exceptional performance. But times have changed and pitches that once supported pace bowlers have become flatter. Perhaps that is the reason why we no longer have legendary pacers of the calibre of Alan Donald, Glen McGrath, Curtly Ambrose, Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis.

It would be good if you ask this question to Sri Lanka or Pakistan (how they won and lost).

I don't have an issue with teams preparing surfaces that suit them. My issue is that the role of tear-away pacers are getting reduced with every passing year. In the past, we had a great number of good fast bowlers. But due to the priority being given to shorter formats such as T20, and to an extent the teams preparing flat surfaces, we are no longer getting to watch such bowlers. Is it even possible to name one current pace bowler, who can match legends such as McGrath, Steyn, Donald.etc?

I think we won't get that kind of bowlers again. That type of bowling is actually dead. There are multiple reasons for this. One is obviously flat surfaces as you have mentioned. The second very strange reason is fitness. I have not seen any pace bowler these days who has been able to remain injury free for a long time and this is a department where lot of players have faced trouble despite of the fact that players these days take extra caution about their health. But we have to change ourselves and settle down with the fact that pace bowling has changed now and it's more about making each and every ball count these days as you have limited overs to ball. I think we should take this positively instead of merely cribbing about this fact.

Here I agree with you as now we are watching last legendary bowling pairs in shape of Anderson and Broad otherwise now we will not able to have bowlers with skills like this too many leagues greediness about money is also big factors so few records are going to stay for very long time stamina is going to be not good for next generation as they are not doing hard work like past bowlers is also issue but too much money is very serious concern.

Why is it a concern? When the sporting associations are behind money from the game why should players become saint and not be concerned about money? At the end of the day all that matters for these players is money. Cricket would have been just like another sport in India if there wasn't this much of money involved.

I think we won't get that kind of bowlers again. That type of bowling is actually dead. There are multiple reasons for this. One is obviously flat surfaces as you have mentioned. The second very strange reason is fitness. I have not seen any pace bowler these days who has been able to remain injury free for a long time and this is a department where lot of players have faced trouble despite of the fact that players these days take extra caution about their health. But we have to change ourselves and settle down with the fact that pace bowling has changed now and it's more about making each and every ball count these days as you have limited overs to ball. I think we should take this positively instead of merely cribbing about this fact.

Have to agree. We have seen how Steyn's career got destroyed by injury issues after such a promising start. And he was a big failure in the T20 format, despite his impressive statistics in the test matches. Nowadays, the pace bowlers have very short run-up (like Jasprit Bumrah) and they don't try to take wicket off every ball they bowl. It is another question whether we should take this positively or not.

Change is inevitable, it's going to happen whether you digest it or not. 90% of the viewership especially the occasional viewers like to watch T20 so the bowlers more or less have to adapt themselves for that. So My take is to adopt this change positively.

[bryant.coleman]

You're changing goal post now.

Anyway, before cricketer used to play max 100ish day of cricket every year but nowadays workload doubled for everyone and i think this believe comes through our bias. Every generation thinks that their timeline was golden period, if we ask same question to younger people in their early 20s or newly adults, they would say Bumrah, Cummins, Archer, Rabada are flag bearers of pace in the modern cricket and old guy like Anderson still kicking in.

I have watched Glenn McGrath, Alan Donald and Curtly Ambrose bowl when I was a kid. And now I am watching Archer, Cummins and Bumrah. For me, the former bunch was much more skilled than the latter. They were exciting to watch and none of the current bowlers could deliver the balls the same way as they did back then. So I am going to disagree if you say that these two groups are equally talented.

[SmokerFace]

I was waiting for the next 2nd test match which is held between Pakistan and Newzeland and I hope this time Pakistani team show some potential and give their 100%. Our team highly disappoint us on their last test match all the team goes back to the pavilion without contributing the score. New Zealand is now leading the series with 1-0 and in order to draw the series Pakistani should have to do something and give the big target otherwise they'll lose this series too as they lost the T20