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Question: Ethnic cleansing of Russian speaking by Kiev forces is the main cause of clashes in Donbass area.
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Author Topic: Donetsk, Kharkov, Lugansk - way to Russia.  (Read 734778 times)
chopstick
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August 14, 2014, 06:04:39 PM
 #3401

BREAKING #Ukraine army artillery and GRAD slaughtered 14 civilians (3 children) & wounded 19 civilians in #Zugres #Donetsk #cdnpoli #Russia

unconfirmed, no pics as of right now
keymone2
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August 14, 2014, 06:17:14 PM
 #3402

Jeebus christ, do I really have to provide you with such obvious direct front line evidence.

Pro-Russian UAV reveals #Ukraine SS-21 Tochka ballistic missile + military vehicles in a town, close to civilians. pic.twitter.com/kHr1RIYt4o

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvAQ-f5IQAAKkHy.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvAQ8s8IIAApQL4.jpg:large

Another innocent victim today in #Donetsk of #Ukraine army shelling via @Black_Bomb #cdnpoli #Russia #UN #warcrimes

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvAhSLrIgAAsJhI.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvAuSl2IMAANVw-.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvA1POdIEAEy4uc.jpg:large


PIC OF SS-21 SCARAB MISSILE STRIKE IN # DONETSK

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvAzjM2IUAAerfs.jpg:large


Epicentre of #Donetsk shelled, 2 dead 8 wounded civilians reported after projectile hit Artemova 58A #Ukraine

https://twitter.com/bopanc/status/499968761080709120/photo/1

Still working, hardly have time to post this. Luckily it's all copy pasta. Everything is from today.

photos you're linking to are non conclusive, considering terrorists have used the tactic of shelling those they claimed they are protecting how do you *know* all those are victims of ukrainian shelling?

and that hole in the ground is simply NOT how impact site for SS-21 looks like. considering it is exactly middle of the road - most probably terrorists had blown it up as there were numerous reports of them destroying infrastructure in the region (roads, bridges, railways).

and still no info about that russian language ban you were so furious about?
niothor
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August 14, 2014, 07:10:37 PM
 #3403

Jeebus christ, do I really have to provide you with such obvious direct front line evidence.

Pro-Russian UAV reveals #Ukraine SS-21 Tochka ballistic missile + military vehicles in a town, close to civilians. pic.twitter.com/kHr1RIYt4o

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvAQ-f5IQAAKkHy.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvAQ8s8IIAApQL4.jpg:large

Another innocent victim today in #Donetsk of #Ukraine army shelling via @Black_Bomb #cdnpoli #Russia #UN #warcrimes

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvAhSLrIgAAsJhI.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvAuSl2IMAANVw-.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvA1POdIEAEy4uc.jpg:large


PIC OF SS-21 SCARAB MISSILE STRIKE IN # DONETSK

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvAzjM2IUAAerfs.jpg:large


Epicentre of #Donetsk shelled, 2 dead 8 wounded civilians reported after projectile hit Artemova 58A #Ukraine

https://twitter.com/bopanc/status/499968761080709120/photo/1

Still working, hardly have time to post this. Luckily it's all copy pasta. Everything is from today.

photos you're linking to are non conclusive, considering terrorists have used the tactic of shelling those they claimed they are protecting how do you *know* all those are victims of ukrainian shelling?

and that hole in the ground is simply NOT how impact site for SS-21 looks like. considering it is exactly middle of the road - most probably terrorists had blown it up as there were numerous reports of them destroying infrastructure in the region (roads, bridges, railways).

and still no info about that russian language ban you were so furious about?

So the Ukraine forces launch a Tochka ...in the middle of nowhere according to the pic (no building in sight)
and we have what:
a more than 2-3 meter hole in the road and at 10-15 meter green grass and green trees (still standing).

In case it was a fragmentation warhead it couldn't have done that damage to the road.
In case it was packed with HE then those trees wouldn't be there anymore.





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chopstick
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August 14, 2014, 07:27:58 PM
 #3404

Jeebus christ, do I really have to provide you with such obvious direct front line evidence.

Pro-Russian UAV reveals #Ukraine SS-21 Tochka ballistic missile + military vehicles in a town, close to civilians. pic.twitter.com/kHr1RIYt4o

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvAQ-f5IQAAKkHy.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvAQ8s8IIAApQL4.jpg:large

Another innocent victim today in #Donetsk of #Ukraine army shelling via @Black_Bomb #cdnpoli #Russia #UN #warcrimes

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvAhSLrIgAAsJhI.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvAuSl2IMAANVw-.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvA1POdIEAEy4uc.jpg:large


PIC OF SS-21 SCARAB MISSILE STRIKE IN # DONETSK

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvAzjM2IUAAerfs.jpg:large


Epicentre of #Donetsk shelled, 2 dead 8 wounded civilians reported after projectile hit Artemova 58A #Ukraine

https://twitter.com/bopanc/status/499968761080709120/photo/1

Still working, hardly have time to post this. Luckily it's all copy pasta. Everything is from today.

photos you're linking to are non conclusive, considering terrorists have used the tactic of shelling those they claimed they are protecting how do you *know* all those are victims of ukrainian shelling?

and that hole in the ground is simply NOT how impact site for SS-21 looks like. considering it is exactly middle of the road - most probably terrorists had blown it up as there were numerous reports of them destroying infrastructure in the region (roads, bridges, railways).

and still no info about that russian language ban you were so furious about?

"Terrorists" are not shelling their own cities.

I can't confirm 100% that it was a TOCHKA strike and neither can you, but I posted it because that's what it was according to the source.

Are you some kind of expert that knows exactly what a ballistic missile impact crater looks like? It sure as fuck wasn't a GRAD, so what else could it be?

But anyway, first you 100% deny that there are any ballistic missiles being used. Then I show you evidence from the news they are being used in the field, and I show you an impact crater directly from the field. Then you go and turn it around and say the terrorists blew up the street. Really?

chopstick
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August 14, 2014, 07:33:55 PM
 #3405

Jeebus christ, do I really have to provide you with such obvious direct front line evidence.

Pro-Russian UAV reveals #Ukraine SS-21 Tochka ballistic missile + military vehicles in a town, close to civilians. pic.twitter.com/kHr1RIYt4o

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvAQ-f5IQAAKkHy.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvAQ8s8IIAApQL4.jpg:large

Another innocent victim today in #Donetsk of #Ukraine army shelling via @Black_Bomb #cdnpoli #Russia #UN #warcrimes

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvAhSLrIgAAsJhI.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvAuSl2IMAANVw-.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvA1POdIEAEy4uc.jpg:large


PIC OF SS-21 SCARAB MISSILE STRIKE IN # DONETSK

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvAzjM2IUAAerfs.jpg:large


Epicentre of #Donetsk shelled, 2 dead 8 wounded civilians reported after projectile hit Artemova 58A #Ukraine

https://twitter.com/bopanc/status/499968761080709120/photo/1

Still working, hardly have time to post this. Luckily it's all copy pasta. Everything is from today.

photos you're linking to are non conclusive, considering terrorists have used the tactic of shelling those they claimed they are protecting how do you *know* all those are victims of ukrainian shelling?

and that hole in the ground is simply NOT how impact site for SS-21 looks like. considering it is exactly middle of the road - most probably terrorists had blown it up as there were numerous reports of them destroying infrastructure in the region (roads, bridges, railways).

and still no info about that russian language ban you were so furious about?

So the Ukraine forces launch a Tochka ...in the middle of nowhere according to the pic (no building in sight)
and we have what:
a more than 2-3 meter hole in the road and at 10-15 meter green grass and green trees (still standing).

In case it was a fragmentation warhead it couldn't have done that damage to the road.
In case it was packed with HE then those trees wouldn't be there anymore.





The ballistic missiles are not 100% accurate. Sometimes they miss their targets slightly. Sometimes also they have incorrect intel and hit an empty area.

There have been a few incidents where the Ukraine army shelled their own forces so it is not surprising.
keymone2
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August 14, 2014, 07:35:25 PM
 #3406

"Terrorists" are not shelling their own cities.

I can't confirm 100% that it was a TOCHKA strike and neither can you, but I posted it because that's what it was according to the source.

Are you some kind of expert that knows exactly what a ballistic missile impact crater looks like? It sure as fuck wasn't a GRAD, so what else could it be?

But anyway, first you 100% deny that there are any ballistic missiles being used. Then I show you evidence from the news they are being used in the field, and I show you an impact crater directly from the field. Then you go and turn it around and say the terrorists blew up the street. Really?

"Terrorists are not shelling their own cities." there are plenty of videos where locals disagree with you.

"I can't confirm 100% that it was a TOCHKA strike and neither can you" of course i can. because pure logic and some critical thinking will tell you that is not a place hit by a ballistic missile. as previous poster had indicated - if it was fragmentation warhead it wouldnt do one huge hole and if it was HE warhead there would be one big crater and lots of destruction around it.

same logic and reasoning can suggest that since explosion is neatly in the center of the road - it might have just been a bomb setup in the middle of the road - which it most probably was!

"first you 100% deny that there are any ballistic missiles being used" i still deny it because you still havent shown any evidence of ballistic missiles being used.

"you go and turn it around and say the terrorists blew up the street. Really?" really, because it looks like one planned explosion in the middle of the road with purpose to disrupt any movement along that road. why is that so hard to understand?
chopstick
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August 14, 2014, 07:39:16 PM
 #3407

More evidence of ballistic missile use. I mean jesus can you guys really deny reality here?

http://www.commondreams.org/news/2014/07/29/us-supported-good-guys-firing-ballistic-missiles-ukraine

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=93b_1408024736

http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2014/07/29/kiev-forces-fire-ballistic-missiles-into-e.-ukraine-cnn.html

http://rt.com/news/176484-cnn-ballistic-missiles-ukraine/

http://www.globalresearch.ca/crimes-against-humanity-ukraine-government-uses-ballistic-missile-against-its-own-people/5395035



BALLISTIC MISSILE USED ON SHAKHTYORST

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PNkU9sZVpg8
chopstick
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August 14, 2014, 07:47:59 PM
 #3408

"Terrorists" are not shelling their own cities.

I can't confirm 100% that it was a TOCHKA strike and neither can you, but I posted it because that's what it was according to the source.

Are you some kind of expert that knows exactly what a ballistic missile impact crater looks like? It sure as fuck wasn't a GRAD, so what else could it be?

But anyway, first you 100% deny that there are any ballistic missiles being used. Then I show you evidence from the news they are being used in the field, and I show you an impact crater directly from the field. Then you go and turn it around and say the terrorists blew up the street. Really?

"Terrorists are not shelling their own cities." there are plenty of videos where locals disagree with you.

"I can't confirm 100% that it was a TOCHKA strike and neither can you" of course i can. because pure logic and some critical thinking will tell you that is not a place hit by a ballistic missile. as previous poster had indicated - if it was fragmentation warhead it wouldnt do one huge hole and if it was HE warhead there would be one big crater and lots of destruction around it.

same logic and reasoning can suggest that since explosion is neatly in the center of the road - it might have just been a bomb setup in the middle of the road - which it most probably was!

"first you 100% deny that there are any ballistic missiles being used" i still deny it because you still havent shown any evidence of ballistic missiles being used.

"you go and turn it around and say the terrorists blew up the street. Really?" really, because it looks like one planned explosion in the middle of the road with purpose to disrupt any movement along that road. why is that so hard to understand?

Your circular logic is never-ending.

The Ukraine army have been shelling civilians since the start of this conflict, yet you blame the "terrorists" who are in reality people defending their homes. Why would they shell their own homes?

Look at that way the guy was standing in the middle of the street. He didn't look like he was happy about it. Maybe the ukies targeted it to disrupt their supply line?

Finally, I already mentioned in my other reply. Ballistic missiles are not 100% accurate. Sometimes they miss their target slightly, or they have incorrect intel and hit the wrong area on accident. There was a report a few days ago that one of the TOCHKA's hit an empty field adjacent to one of the separatist positions. So sometimes they make mistakes.
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August 14, 2014, 07:59:28 PM
 #3409


what do you mean "more evidence"? all those links are simply reiteration of the same CNN "news" again without any evidence of actual impact site.

last video is different but is most probably fake - crater of that size and a tree standing next to it? dude you definitely haven't seen a ballistic missile strike..

Your circular logic is never-ending.

The Ukraine army have been shelling civilians since the start of this conflict, yet you blame the "terrorists" who are in reality people defending their homes. Why would they shell their own homes?

Look at that way the guy was standing in the middle of the street. He didn't look like he was happy about it. Maybe the ukies targeted it to disrupt their supply line?

Finally, I already mentioned in my other reply. Ballistic missiles are not 100% accurate. Sometimes they miss their target slightly, or they have incorrect intel and hit the wrong area on accident. There was a report a few days ago that one of the TOCHKA's hit an empty field adjacent to one of the separatist positions. So sometimes they make mistakes.

"Your circular logic is never-ending." you forgot to point out the part where i have circular logic.

"The Ukraine army have been shelling civilians since the start of this conflict" the ukraine's army hasn't even been involved in the conflict from the very beginning, ATO forces were mainly national guard and volunteer battalions which is not regular army.

"terrorists who are in reality people defending their homes" terrorists from russia, chechnya, abkhazia, ossetia and even serbia? what homes are they defending? or did you forget that all command of terrorist forces is not from ukraine? and haven't you seen the videos where terrorists take away property and businesses, kidnap and torture people. that is called marauding, not defending your homes.

"Ballistic missiles are not 100% accurate." you haven't been reading carefully. main concern is that surroundings of impact are completely clean without any collateral damage. NO COLLATERAL DAMAGE. this DOES NOT happen when ballistic missile strikes. the fact that there are no building around the hole and that it is in the middle of the road are all supplemental evidence to explanation that it was simply a bomb detonated with purpose of destroying a road. that is it.
chopstick
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August 14, 2014, 08:15:05 PM
 #3410


what do you mean "more evidence"? all those links are simply reiteration of the same CNN "news" again without any evidence of actual impact site.

last video is different but is most probably fake - crater of that size and a tree standing next to it? dude you definitely haven't seen a ballistic missile strike..

Your circular logic is never-ending.

The Ukraine army have been shelling civilians since the start of this conflict, yet you blame the "terrorists" who are in reality people defending their homes. Why would they shell their own homes?

Look at that way the guy was standing in the middle of the street. He didn't look like he was happy about it. Maybe the ukies targeted it to disrupt their supply line?

Finally, I already mentioned in my other reply. Ballistic missiles are not 100% accurate. Sometimes they miss their target slightly, or they have incorrect intel and hit the wrong area on accident. There was a report a few days ago that one of the TOCHKA's hit an empty field adjacent to one of the separatist positions. So sometimes they make mistakes.

"Your circular logic is never-ending." you forgot to point out the part where i have circular logic.

"The Ukraine army have been shelling civilians since the start of this conflict" the ukraine's army hasn't even been involved in the conflict from the very beginning, ATO forces were mainly national guard and volunteer battalions which is not regular army.

"terrorists who are in reality people defending their homes" terrorists from russia, chechnya, abkhazia, ossetia and even serbia? what homes are they defending? or did you forget that all command of terrorist forces is not from ukraine? and haven't you seen the videos where terrorists take away property and businesses, kidnap and torture people. that is called marauding, not defending your homes.

"Ballistic missiles are not 100% accurate." you haven't been reading carefully. main concern is that surroundings of impact are completely clean without any collateral damage. NO COLLATERAL DAMAGE. this DOES NOT happen when ballistic missile strikes. the fact that there are no building around the hole and that it is in the middle of the road are all supplemental evidence to explanation that it was simply a bomb detonated with purpose of destroying a road. that is it.

lol, so I show you a video that is most likely a ballistic missile crater and all you have to say is "it is probably fake look at the tree" LOL

It doesn't matter what I link to you, you will either say its fake or blame it on Russia.

The ATO forces are the Ukrainian army. They have forced enlistment. Even if you don't want to fight, you are being forced too. It is not all volunteers.

Actually there have been plenty of videos showing the Ukraine army terrorizing and beating and kidnapping people. I have not seen any of the separatists doing this.

Anyway, the rest of what you are saying is irrelevant because it is obvious you truly have no clue what you're talking about. You could not possibly have your facts more wrong.
chopstick
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August 14, 2014, 08:24:15 PM
 #3411

Ukraine army also likes to use White phosphorus. how very democratic of them..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=QHsrga1RAyY

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August 14, 2014, 08:51:25 PM
 #3412

This apparently is also an SS-21 missile crater according to the source.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvBk9F5IcAA7TTO.jpg:large
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August 14, 2014, 08:56:42 PM
 #3413

Ukraine army also likes to use White phosphorus. how very democratic of them..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=QHsrga1RAyY

White phosphorus for white people. Caedite eos! Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius! Wink
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August 14, 2014, 09:09:00 PM
 #3414

lol, so I show you a video that is most likely a ballistic missile crater and all you have to say is "it is probably fake look at the tree" LOL

It doesn't matter what I link to you, you will either say its fake or blame it on Russia.

The ATO forces are the Ukrainian army. They have forced enlistment. Even if you don't want to fight, you are being forced too. It is not all volunteers.

Actually there have been plenty of videos showing the Ukraine army terrorizing and beating and kidnapping people. I have not seen any of the separatists doing this.

Anyway, the rest of what you are saying is irrelevant because it is obvious you truly have no clue what you're talking about. You could not possibly have your facts more wrong.

"it is probably fake look at the tree" because it only takes one mistake to make a fake collapse. if you show me a tree that can stand a ballistic missile strike 5 meters away - then we'll talk.

"It doesn't matter what I link to you" it matters a lot what you link to me because i have a chance to open you to a world of critical thinking. you're way to fast jumping conclusions without evaluating evidence you have. i've also linked a video up there that shows ukrainian army shelling donetsk - i can say nothing against it's credibility.

"The ATO forces are the Ukrainian army" this is where you are simply wrong. army and ATO are 2 different military forces that often collaborate and have similar goal but only since Poroshenko has became president.

"plenty of videos showing the Ukraine army terrorizing and beating and kidnapping people" beating captured terrorists that were shooting at them just some minutes before? maybe. kidnapping civilians and torturing them? nope, that is what separatists are doing. best examples - kidnapping Ostrovsky - a journalist from VICE NEWS and kidnapping Volodymyr Rybak(happened on video) - who was later found tortured and drowned. i can also give you links to videos but i bet you have the skills to google it.

"rest of what you are saying is irrelevant" so instead of showing me where i'm wrong you're just claiming everything i say is irrelevant? that is just showing you have no arguments and are not willing to admit it.

ballistic missile will not do a hole shown on a picture and i explained why. you say it's irrelevant? but that is among your best evidence for missile strike - how can it being bullshit be irrelevant?

it's sad you're so willing to ignore the reality and find simpler explanations that correlate with evidence that you yourself have provided and instead you just go on repeating russian media bullshit.

P.S. you still haven't provided anything about that russian language ban - how is it? did it never happen? but isn't this whole war being about russians are oppressed by ukrainian nazi government? and now it turns out that there was no oppression?

This apparently is also an SS-21 missile crater according to the source.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvBk9F5IcAA7TTO.jpg:large

again, middle of nowhere and middle of the road - do you fail to see the pattern?

Ukraine army also likes to use White phosphorus. how very democratic of them..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=QHsrga1RAyY

this story has been popular for a while and then completely died out. wouldn't white phosphorous have terrible consequences? given it was launched over rebel-held city - wouldn't we already had numerous videos of the results of such bombings? i mean injuries from that are horrible: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5d/Ayman2.jpg/250px-Ayman2.jpg (NSFL) and it burns EVERYTHING. where is any evidence apart from low quality video shot at night where you can't even confirm the location of shooting?

and of course - what about that russian language ban? are you just going to ignore it? you've claim it happened and haven't provided any evidence to that. some on, you can do better!
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August 14, 2014, 09:32:33 PM
 #3415


Russian military vehicles enter Ukraine as aid convoy stops short of border

Column of 23 armoured personnel carriers and support vehicles cross border after dark, while 280 trucks come to halt separately

    Shaun Walker on the Russia-Ukraine border
    The Guardian, Thursday 14 August 2014 20.38 BST   


Armoured personnel carriers in Russia move towards the Ukraine border. Photograph: Shaun Walker

The white trucks of humanitarian aid rumbled through Russia in a convoy stretching for miles, moving slowly southwards on the M4 highway, amid a landscape of fertile fields and Ladas stopped at the roadside – their boots overflowing with watermelons for sale.

But, while the trucks came to a halt well short of Ukraine's border, a different Russian convoy did cross into Ukrainian territory late on Thursday evening.

The Guardian saw a column of 23 armoured personnel carriers, supported by fuel trucks and other logistics vehicles with official Russian military plates, travelling towards the border near the Russian town of Donetsk – about 200km away from Donetsk, Ukraine.

    So @RolandOliphant and I just saw a column of APCs and vehicles with official Russian military plates cross border into Ukraine.
    — Shaun Walker (@shaunwalker7) August 14, 2014

After pausing by the side of the road until nightfall, the convoy crossed into Ukrainian territory, using a rough dirt track and clearly crossing through a gap in a barbed wire fence that demarcates the border. Armed men were visible in the gloom by the border fence as the column moved into Ukraine. Kiev has lost control of its side of the border in this area.

The trucks are unlikely to represent a full-scale official Russian invasion, and it was unclear how far they planned to travel inside Ukrainian territory and how long they would stay. But it was incontrovertible evidence of what Ukraine has long claimed – that Russian troops are active inside its borders.

It was also ironic given the attention to the huge convoy of humanitarian aid that moved slowly southwards on the M4 highway on Thursday. As the convoy moved closer to the stretch of border controlled by pro-Russian rebels it was hard to escape the feeling that Moscow's aid convoy had the potential to turn into a slow-motion disaster, perhaps even prompting a moment that could push Ukraine and Russia out of the messy conflict fought by proxies into full-blown, open engagement.

According to Moscow, the convoy is a goodwill gesture, packed with much-needed aid for the residents of eastern Ukraine. In Kiev's view, the convoy is at best a cynical ploy; at worst, a kind of Trojan centipede, winding its way into the country at a border point no longer controlled by Ukrainian forces, the nature of its cargo taken only on trust.

The humanitarian convoy stalled for 24 hours in the city of Voronezh during Wednesday, but set out at dawn on Thursday.

At one point, with President Vladimir Putin more than two hours late to address a gathering of top Russian officials in newly annexed Crimea, and the first lorries in the convoy taking the turnoff from the main M4 highway towards rebel-controlled Luhansk in Ukraine, there were whispers that perhaps Putin's announcement was being delayed to announce that the trucks would enter Ukraine whether or not the country's authorities gave the green light, a move Kiev has said would be seen as an invasion.


The aid convoy on the road in Russia. Photograph: Itar-Tass/Corbis

In the end, the convoy ground to a halt shortly after the turnoff, still about 20 miles from the border and, over a period of two hours, the vehicles parked in neat lines, throwing up clouds of dust.

Russia's foreign ministry has said there are 262 vehicles in the convoy, including 200 carrying aid. Some of the drivers put the number at 270. Already, the start of a field camp had been erected on the site, with a dozen large tents and a shower area where the men could wash off the grime and sweat of the long journey.

The trucks could be stacked with weapons, some said. Others claimed they could be carrying advance supplies for a later Russian invasion using the ground troops that have hovered in border areas. There was also a suggestion that the circus around the mysterious convoy could distract attention from other Russian moves, a fear apparently justified given the military column that crossed the borderon Thursday night.

The hundreds of men driving the trucks in the convoy were all dressed in identical khaki T-shirts, shorts and caps, and there was certainly something military about their bearing.

For some observers, the large convoy moving with obvious top-level coordination and accompanied by numerous vehicles with official Russian military plates brought back memories of the "little green men" involved in the annexation of Crimea back in March. Wearing green uniforms without insignia, those men claimed to be local volunteers, although they were clearly highly trained Russian special operatives. Despite denying their presence all through the annexation, Putin later admitted that Russian military units had been involved.

    Spent a couple of hours with the Russian convoy which has stopped, possibly for some time. Field camp being set up pic.twitter.com/UN1NTJSsbX
    — Shaun Walker (@shaunwalker7) August 14, 2014

But, with their easy manner, lack of discipline and in some cases physiques that hinted more at beer halls than special forces training grounds, the "little brown men" of the aid convoy are clearly not the highly trained elite troops used in the annexation of Crimea.

In general, the men did not want to speak about who they were or how they had come to be involved in the convoy. One said he was a volunteer from a non-governmental organisation, but clammed up when asked for the name of the organisation.

"I'm being paid to do a job here, not to stand around talking to journalists," he said when pressed, and then looked sheepish when reminded he had just claimed to be an unpaid volunteer.

Others said they were military veterans but claimed not to be serving currently. It is possible the convoy was assembled using the semi-official method Russia has used to find volunteers to fight for rebel separatists in eastern Ukraine – phone calls from military veterans' organisations offering work.

Those at the site were dismissive of fears in Ukraine that the convoy may be carrying secret military cargo. Two of the men in brown, who would not give their names but said they were "in charge of the cargo", offered to open any of the trucks picked at random and show what was inside. Men scrambled to untie the cords securing the tarpaulin on two of the trucks chosen by the Guardian and other journalists at the site.

Inside one were white sacks filled with buckwheat, while the other contained stacked cardboard boxes. Three men pulled the tape from one of the boxes to reveal newly packed sleeping bags. As the tarpaulin was pulled away, the original military green of the trucks was revealed; their exteriors apparently only recently painted white.

Nobody would say how long they planned to be there: a few hours or several days. Neither was it clear whether a decision had been taken in Moscow to move only with approval from the International Committee of the Red Cross, or whether a decision would be made to move ahead regardless, if diplomatic wrangling takes too long.

A lone car with diplomatic plates and Red Cross insignia arrived at the location of the convoy on Thursday afternoon. Two men inside confirmed they were Red Cross officials based in Moscow but refused to give any further information about whether they had travelled with the convoy, what plans there were for inspection, or whether more representatives were on the way. On Thursday evening, the organisation tweeted that "initial contact" with the convoy had been made, and there were "many practical details to be clarified".

    Two helicopters accompanying the convoy, flying extremely low. Now sat in the fields alongside pic.twitter.com/yYTr7Vhp8C
    — Shaun Walker (@shaunwalker7) August 14, 2014

The trucks do indeed appear to contain humanitarian aid, and there is undoubtedly a grim situation in major towns in eastern Ukraine, as thousands don't have water and electricity, and are sheltering in basements to avoid shelling. Nevertheless, Kiev's concern about the convoy, with its thinly disguised military undertones, is understandable. Two military helicopters accompanied the convoy south, and flew just a few dozen metres from the ground as it came to a halt. The head and tail of the convoy included a number of vehicles with official Russian military plates.

Separately, there were several military transporters loaded with artillery and tanks visible on the main M4 road during the day. Locals say the sightings have been ever more frequent in recent months, with Ukraine accusing Moscow of shelling its territory from inside Russia, and transporting heavy weaponry across the border, including perhaps the BUK missile system which is believed to have been used to shoot down a Malaysian Airlines passenger jet last month.

The armoured column seen by the Guardian appeared to be further evidence of Russia's incursions, which the Kremlin has repeatedly denied.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/14/russian-military-vehicles-enter-ukraine-aid-convoy-stops-short-border

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August 14, 2014, 09:35:46 PM
 #3416

More white phosphorus courtesy of Ukie Gov -

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvBze6uIEAAiva7.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvByBdBIMAAxP-Z.jpg:large


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August 14, 2014, 09:41:33 PM
Last edit: August 14, 2014, 10:09:52 PM by Pagan
 #3417

Rats abandoning a sinking ship

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ow5sEsSyI4

In Donbas 46 Chechen mercenaries have surrendered to ATO forces



46 militants from the Caucasus have surrendered to ATO forces, the volunteer battallion Donbas wrote on its FB page, reports Espreso.tv.

“Today’s summary – 46 Caucasus nationals have voluntarily surrendered. By preliminary data – all of them are from the Chechen republic,” the battalion’s representatives noted.

The soldiers also inform that Horlivka at present is under the caring supervision of the best paratroopers in the world.”

http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/08/14/in-donbas-46-chechen-mercenaries-have-surrendered-to-ato-forces/

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August 14, 2014, 10:08:49 PM
 #3418

Jeebus christ, do I really have to provide you with such obvious direct front line evidence.

Pro-Russian UAV reveals #Ukraine SS-21 Tochka ballistic missile + military vehicles in a town, close to civilians. pic.twitter.com/kHr1RIYt4o

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvAQ-f5IQAAKkHy.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvAQ8s8IIAApQL4.jpg:large

Another innocent victim today in #Donetsk of #Ukraine army shelling via @Black_Bomb #cdnpoli #Russia #UN #warcrimes

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvAhSLrIgAAsJhI.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvAuSl2IMAANVw-.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvA1POdIEAEy4uc.jpg:large


PIC OF SS-21 SCARAB MISSILE STRIKE IN # DONETSK

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvAzjM2IUAAerfs.jpg:large


Epicentre of #Donetsk shelled, 2 dead 8 wounded civilians reported after projectile hit Artemova 58A #Ukraine

https://twitter.com/bopanc/status/499968761080709120/photo/1

Still working, hardly have time to post this. Luckily it's all copy pasta. Everything is from today.

photos you're linking to are non conclusive, considering terrorists have used the tactic of shelling those they claimed they are protecting how do you *know* all those are victims of ukrainian shelling?

and that hole in the ground is simply NOT how impact site for SS-21 looks like. considering it is exactly middle of the road - most probably terrorists had blown it up as there were numerous reports of them destroying infrastructure in the region (roads, bridges, railways).

and still no info about that russian language ban you were so furious about?

So the Ukraine forces launch a Tochka ...in the middle of nowhere according to the pic (no building in sight)
and we have what:
a more than 2-3 meter hole in the road and at 10-15 meter green grass and green trees (still standing).

In case it was a fragmentation warhead it couldn't have done that damage to the road.
In case it was packed with HE then those trees wouldn't be there anymore.





The ballistic missiles are not 100% accurate. Sometimes they miss their targets slightly. Sometimes also they have incorrect intel and hit an empty area.

There have been a few incidents where the Ukraine army shelled their own forces so it is not surprising.

The accuracy doesn't matter.

The fact is that that is not the aftermath of a tochka , not one with he warhead , not one with fragmentation , in no case one armed with chemicals and of course not on nuclear.

a he ss-21 would have blown those trees and left all the sidewalks burned not green.
And a frag bomb even a larger one is not capable of doing that hole. it is aimed at covering a large area not penetrate bunkers.



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August 14, 2014, 10:11:52 PM
 #3419

This apparently is also an SS-21 missile crater according to the source.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvBk9F5IcAA7TTO.jpg:large

You can see that the barriers are still standing and by the look they are pretty old , so they were standing there for a long time , they were not replaced after the so called strike.

Let me know what kind of explosion is that , that digs a whole 10 meters in the ground but leave those in place.




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Paya
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August 14, 2014, 10:42:53 PM
 #3420


And here's the video of this latest Ukrainian attack on city of Donetsk with white phosphorus:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLWOjzwAtnA
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