Donetsk, Kharkov, Lugansk - way to Russia.

[RoadTrain]

in December 24 1989 USSR condemned Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact and '39 actions, how many times do you want Russian people to say that we are sorry? every day till the end of our life? stop grabbing our sleeves and lynching us for our mistakes

Probably when you also return what you have stolen from both Poland and Romania at those times?

What should we 'return' and how and why would we do that?

Of course , why asking somebody you sent your national treasure for safe keeping to give it back.

Good for you for not answering my question and trying to troll instead. I don't know what we owe you. I was hoping you would shed the light

90 tons of gold Out of 120 initial tons only 30 have been returned (on paper at least , as the claim is made by the pro russian communist party in power at that time)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_Treasure

All the governments of Romania since World War I, regardless of their political colour, have tried unsuccessfully to negotiate a return of the gold and of the culturally valuable objects, but all Soviet and Russian governments have refused. The Soviet Union tried to use the treasure in the dispute over Bessarabia, however no agreement was reached.[1]

After the fall of the USSR, the Russian governments' position toward the Romanian Treasure remained the same and various negotiations failed. The Romanian-Russian treaty of 2003 did not mention the Treasure; presidents Ion Iliescu and Vladimir Putin decided to create a commission to analyze this problem, but no advances were made.

I wonder how much of these is still left. I mean, Russia has gone through some difficult periods when these treasuries could have been stolen or something.

By the way you didn't mention that these treasuries were seized as a result of Romanian invasion of Bessarabia in 1918, which I found a fair price under those circumstances.

But it's been long ago so I hope this will get resolved some day.

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[Rassah]

OK, I'll say something. This is pathognomonic of your problem. You don't understand what you're reading and you comment. I was for the Multi-polar world & Russia is fighting for a multi-polar world. The US wants a unipolar world.

If you think Russia wants a multipolar world, you must have been asleep for the last 200 years, or know absolutely nothing of Russia's history. You at least remember the Soviet Union, right? There is a major misconception between what USA wants and what Russia says USA wants. When USA is "expanding," it is trying to open up more countries to international trade, so that countries will have their economic levels brought up and supported by other major world economies. And sure, sometimes that means deposing dictators that stifle economic and personal freedoms, and steal their country's resources. When Russia talks about USA wanting to expand, they claim that it's USA wanting to expand dictatorial military power, because that's what Russia is, and has been trying to do since it was taken over by Mongolians many centuries ago.
Why do you think that a culture that was literally creating a unipolar world throughout most of the 1900's, that now has many of the same people in power that were in power when it was USSR, suddenly wants a multipolar world?

Frankly, I'm not too sympathetic with  innocent idealists. They should know if they were falling into the  wolves' lair. That's what happened in Maidan. They could have read more & if they did, they could have learned they were falling into the usual trap of the CIA, they should have been wiser. They were stupid, to be frank.


Look what happened...

What happened is Ukrainians deposed a wanabe dictator with close ties to Russia. They chose freedom over strong rule, which Russia is yet to do. And if the new government is as bad as Russians claim it is, they will do it again and again. Ukraine is no longer safe for socialist dictators that rob the country of its resources with Russia's blessing. That's what happened.

[Rassah]

The Global Soviet Empire appeared only in your imagination because you have poor basic comprehension skills.

Actually, no, it appeared in my imagination because that's what Russian Soviet propaganda kept telling me is the glorious goal of the motherland when I lived there.

So, we have proven in this forum that the Maidan flunkeys have low IQ's. Where have you found a group of more stupid people who fought for their supposed blind idealism so that their country could break up?

Uh, the British colonists, who fought for their blind idealism, and established USA which became a global superpower? I guess Russia brainwashed you into thinking that fighting for political from is a stupid thing, and you should just follow whatever big brother tells you.

Now they blame everybody forgetting it's all because of their stupidity.

They're not blaming everyone. Just Russia. For invading them.

[niothor]

in December 24 1989 USSR condemned Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact and '39 actions, how many times do you want Russian people to say that we are sorry? every day till the end of our life? stop grabbing our sleeves and lynching us for our mistakes

Probably when you also return what you have stolen from both Poland and Romania at those times?

You Russians constantly use the word nazi and hitler and only talk on how germans invaded but when it comes to stalin and urss you always claim that was in the past.

Double standards again.

WTF
Stalin protected USSR and he was a great ruler. The fact that he put his country's interests above the interests of Poland's is fine.

niothor, you are xenophobe and russophobe. USSR won the second world war. You have to thanks USSR for your life. You are  alive only because of the USSR.

No I don't. Actually more in my family were killed by Russians than by Germans.

Besides , you claim that we would have ended worse with the Germans? Probably or probably not.

[RoadTrain]

When USA is "expanding," it is trying to open up more countries to international trade, so that countries will have their economic levels brought up and supported by other major world economies. And sure, sometimes that means deposing dictators that stifle economic and personal freedoms, and steal their country's resources.

This is actually what USA is doing, God bless them. It's sometimes ironically called exporting democracy.

No matter how hard you're trying to make it look good, it's still called imperialism.

And I'm not judging, Russia is doing the same, but in a bit different way.

[Rassah]

you are referring to '39, this is whataboutism 

I think you don't understand what whataboutism is.

This:  "Russia invaded Ukraine." | "Well, America invaded Iraq, so Russia is not to blame"  is whataboutism.

This: "Russia invaded and subjugated Poland." |  " Well, Russia saved Poland when Poland was invaded by Germany."  is just the same country doing some good FTER it did bad.

Notice the difference? Whataboutism is excusing your bad actions because someone else did bad things too (like, if you were to murder someone, and then say that it's OK, because someone else murdered someone too). What happened to Poland is excusing your bad actions because you did something good later.

[niothor]

When USA is "expanding," it is trying to open up more countries to international trade, so that countries will have their economic levels brought up and supported by other major world economies. And sure, sometimes that means deposing dictators that stifle economic and personal freedoms, and steal their country's resources.

this is just BS, complete bananas, explain to us how you opened up Iraq and Syria to international trade. Dick Chaney was one of the major shareholder in company that started drilling oil in Iraq and ripped Iraq of its natural resource, without paying anything to Iraq.

USA helped ISIS to gain power in Syria because USA didn't like Ashad and they wanted to export 'democracy', now ISIS poses threat to pro-US government in Iraq and executes journalists publicly. US simply raised new terrorists.

Maybe the ultimate idea behind your imperialism is good, but the reality is this - dirty schemes, plain scam, people die, poverty rises

http://en.ria.ru/business/20140819/192143803/Russias-LUKOIL-Makes-First-Oil-Shipment-From-Iraqi-Field.html

LUKOIL signed a 20-year contract in 2010 to develop West Qurna-2 in Basra Province, which has recoverable reserves of about 14 billion barrels of oil. LUKOIL holds a 75-percent stake in the project, with the rest in the hands of the Iraqi state’s North Oil Company.
West Qurna-2 is one of the largest oil fields in the world with a crude output of 280,000 barrels per day. It was discovered in 1973 and explored by Soviet geologists in 1970s and 1980s using 2D seismic acquisition and exploration drilling technologies.

[niothor]

No I don't. Actually more in my family were killed by Russians than by Germans.

Besides , you claim that we would have ended worse with the Germans? Probably or probably not.

How did this happen? I don't believe it. The only explanation I can find - your family were fighting against USSR in Romanian Fourth and Third Army (686,258 men under arms, huge, right?   ) in Stalingrad.

No , none of my relatives died abroad.
The only one that died in battle died at Iasi in the last stage of the war and were part of a reserve battalion without to much training rushed t the front.

But during the "eliberation" 5 of my relatives where killed. Two of them we even now don't know where they are buried.
Add to this the construction of the Danube canal which took also it's  toll and you can see my love for the liberation army.

Before you make the obvious remark , yes I know at least one in my family that died also during the German invasion in 1916.

[RoadTrain]

you are referring to '39, this is whataboutism 

I think you don't understand what whataboutism is.

This:  "Russia invaded Ukraine." | "Well, America invaded Iraq, so Russia is not to blame"  is whataboutism.

This: "Russia invaded and subjugated Poland." |  " Well, Russia saved Poland when Poland was invaded by Germany."  is just the same country doing some good FTER it did bad.

Notice the difference? Whataboutism is excusing your bad actions because someone else did bad things too (like, if you were to murder someone, and then say that it's OK, because someone else murdered someone too). What happened to Poland is excusing your bad actions because you did something good later.

Whataboutism is not any good, but you don't notice the implications.
What if someone keeps doing bad things?
What if the ultimate goal of that someone is to weaken and control you as much as possible?
What if the only viable option is to do something bad? Would you just surrender?
Is this still whataboutism?

[niothor]

LUKOIL signed a 20-year contract in 2010 to develop West Qurna-2 in Basra Province, which has recoverable reserves of about 14 billion barrels of oil. LUKOIL holds a 75-percent stake in the project, with the rest in the hands of the Iraqi state’s North Oil Company.
West Qurna-2 is one of the largest oil fields in the world with a crude output of 280,000 barrels per day. It was discovered in 1973 and explored by Soviet geologists in 1970s and 1980s using 2D seismic acquisition and exploration drilling technologies.

Russia has been doing business with Iraq long before that and had other projects going, doesn't prove anything, your argument is not valid

If Lukoil is exploring the largest field in Iraq , how are the americans stealing all of Iraq's oil?

[Rassah]

Actually more in my family were killed by Russians than by Germans.

Same with my family. There's a very good reason why Ukrainians welcomed the Germans with flowers and gifts as liberators when they invaded Ukraine. Russia, and Stalin, probably killed many more Ukrainians than Germany.

This is actually what USA is doing, God bless them. It's sometimes ironically called exporting democracy.

No matter how hard you're trying to make it look good, it's still called imperialism.

Imperialism is taking over control of countries. And while yes, it has done that with some countries, that is not the ultimate goal. Hell, Japan is part of USA "empire" if that was true. And don't worry, USA is paying for its actual imperialism, the same way Soviet Russia paid for theirs, with the economy no longer able to sustain the military needed to keep the empire alive.

this is just BS, complete bananas, explain to us how you opened up Iraq and Syria to international trade.

These are too recent to judge, and Iraq was an actual example of imperialism. Many Americans protested that, understood that it was just our crazy president being controlled by Cheney to get Cheney's oil company access to oil there, and most Americans now admit it was a huge mistake. Syria was not invaded, and America only got involved when chemical weapons were used.
For good examples of the past, look at South Korea and Vietnam (although both were likely started with lies). Do you think South Korea is doing better than the communist North Korea? What about Vietnam? Both countries are international economic powerhouses. What about Chile? It has a fairly free government, with major businesses, including a private company that's the biggest producer of paper in the world. Compare that to Argentina, or Equador.

[Rassah]

Russia has been doing business with Iraq long before that and had other projects going, doesn't prove anything

Just proves that Russia has been doing business with dictators that subjugate and murder their own people. But that's not news.

Whataboutism is not any good, but you don't notice the implications.
What if someone keeps doing bad things? <- That makes it OK for you to keep doing bad things?
What if the ultimate goal of that someone is to weaken and control you as much as possible? <- That makes it OK for you to control and weaken others as much as possible?
What if the only viable option is to do something bad? Would you just surrender? <- That means you should be just as bad as them, and just give up, instead of fighting against doing bad things?
Is this still whataboutism? <- Yes. Yes it is.

[niothor]

No I don't. Actually more in my family were killed by Russians than by Germans.

Besides , you claim that we would have ended worse with the Germans? Probably or probably not.

How did this happen? I don't believe it. The only explanation I can find - your family were fighting against USSR in Romanian Fourth and Third Army (686,258 men under arms, huge, right?   ) in Stalingrad.

No , none of my relatives died abroad.
The only one that died in battle died at Iasi in the last stage of the war and were part of a reserve battalion without to much training rushed t the front.

But during the "eliberation" 5 of my relatives where killed. Two of them we even now don't know where they are buried.
Add to this the construction of the Danube canal which took also it's toe and you can see my love for the liberation army.

Before you make the obvious remark , yes I know at least one in my family that died also during the German invasion in 1916.

Now I see, USSR made you family to contribute their lives for over 20,000,000 Russian people that died.
I just realized that the number of Romanian troops sent to fight in Russia exceeded that of all of Germany's other allies combined.
So please forgive Russians for the anger and pain in their heart, when they came to liberate you.
You know how many men in my family invaded something? 0, nada, nothing, nicht.

On 13 April 1939, France and the United Kingdom had pledged to guarantee the independence of the Kingdom of Romania. Negotiations with the Soviet Union concerning a similar guarantee collapsed when Romania refused to allow the Red Army to cross its frontiers.

In July, after a Soviet ultimatum, Romania agreed to give up Bessarabia and Northern Bukovina. Two thirds of Bessarabia were combined with a small part of the Soviet Union to form the Moldavian Soviet Socialist Republic. The rest (Northern Bukovina, northern half of the Hotin county and Budjak) was apportioned to the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic

Who started the invasion?

Shortly thereafter, on 30 August, under the Second Vienna Award, Germany and Italy mediated a compromise between Romania and the Kingdom of Hungary: Hungary received a region referred to as "Northern Transylvania", while "Southern Transylvania" remained part of Romania. Hungary had lost Transylvania after World War I in the Treaty of Trianon

[niothor]

Who started the invasion?

USSR started, how many Romanians were killed? this can't be compared to German/Romanian troops invading USSR

So , you stated a war and then you ask why we went to war? common , read again what you have just wrote down .

You invaded our country and ask why we responded?


About the second part where you added more to your response,
Let's see what you Russians are going to get , once Europe really starts to mess with you.

All your allies are gone because of your constant back stabbing , nobody will raise a finger for you.
And let me tell this in pure honesty , whenever I will see a dead Russian I will have the same reaction. The m** f *** got what he deserved.

[fsb4000]

About Donetsk and etc

[niothor]

And let me tell this in pure honesty , whenever I will see a dead Russian I will have the same reaction. The m** f *** got what he deserved.

Thank you for your honesty, let's hope this never happens, I don't wanna see you dead, we had quite good argument.
But in case you want to see some blood and action, please join your regular army or you might actually go to Ukraine, there is plenty of action going on right now, and seems like Russians are involved  

Ukraine is not my concern but the moment Russia will try to again for the 15th time  (yeah 15 )  have it's army march uninvited in our country probably I will be called to join the army as I did my military service in a tank battalion.

And yes , I will go to war no matter how stupid I think a war is. But I would do this with no regret just thinking what you russians will do once you occupy Romania again.
Better dead than living a nightmare.

[Balthazar]

About Donetsk and etc

[Nemo1024]

An interesting point: This year Ukraine already sold 90% more corn than last year, despite it having a harvest that is magnitude smaller. This indicates that ALL corn is being sold to get cash, not giving any thought to Ukrainians and that this is a recipe for famine this autumn/winter. Will it be again Russia saving their hide and sending humanitarian aid, because I don't see Europe sending free food to Ukraine?

[Balthazar]

They can't betray them, public opinion will put them to shame

They betrayed them already. According to association agreement, EU don't have to pay its debt to ukraine. If you don't remember, the EU had to pay $160 billion as compensation for renunciation of nuclear status. And they have paid nothing...

Actually, nobody cares about status of Ukraine and future of its statehood. This $160 billion debt was a good reason to support "democratic opposition" without thinking about any consequences. All these "sanctions", accusations, internet trolls etc. are nothing more than decorations for one giant scam scheme.

Otherwise what was the point in changing one regime for another?

Majority of ukrainian citizens doesn't care about logic too much. 1991-1994-2005-2010-2014... It's a kind of tradition already, something like new year or easter... So, this new regime will be overthrown just as usual.

[blablahblah]

Otherwise what was the point in changing one regime for another?

Majority of ukrainian citizens doesn't care about logic too much. 1991-1994-2005-2010-2014... It's a kind of tradition already, something like new year or easter... So, this new regime will be overthrown just as usual.

Sometimes I wish Siberia would hurry up and run out of gas and all of those other natural resources that the ungrateful Russians don't deserve.

Of course, I also wish that on the US and the Middle East, but dreams are free.