[ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin"

[wttbs]

I am staking now for a few days, in 2 days from now I shoud receive my first reward. I am very curious/excited how much CLAM it will be 

Block reward is 1 clam + the fees attached to that block.

I'd expect somewhere like 1 clam to 1.01.

Thanks for your answer. So reward is always 1 CLAM + fees. The more CLAM I have, the faster it will stake?

[dooglus]

I am staking now for a few days, in 2 days from now I shoud receive my first reward. I am very curious/excited how much CLAM it will be  

Note that staking is random, much like Bitcoin mining. If your expected time to find a block is 3 days and you go 2 days without finding one, it doesn't mean you will find one on the 3rd day. It just means that you have been unlucky. You don't make "progress" towards staking, and your expected time to find a block doesn't decrease over time.

The more CLAM I have, the faster it will stake?

The chance of each output staking is proportional to its value, yes.

According to my estimates, each 450 CLAM you have will stake about once per day. So if you have 100 CLAMs you can expect to stake every 4 or 5 days. And so on.

[dooglus]

I also don't see how you can offer any real proof of what goes on server side.

The real proof is provided using sha256 hashes. The site commits to a specific server-side secret before the player does anything by publishing the hash of that secret. Then the player picks their own client-side seed and both seeds are used to generate the rolls. When the player is done playing he is shown the server-side secret. The player can hash that secret and verify that its hash matches the hash he was shown back at the start.

Any programmer knows that "provably fair" could just be being controlled server side/behind the scenes by subroutines to concoct "provably fair" to the end user.

Not sure what you mean by that. I'm a programmer and I know that there's no way the server can cheat the player. I think the problem here is that either you don't understand how it works, or you do understand how it works but want to try to persuade others that it doesn't work for some reason. I've seen a few "traditional" casinos recently trying to tarnish the reputation of provable fairness so that they can justify refusing to adopt it.

Without any real transparency of what goes on in the server I don't know how you could prove anything.

The algorithm is public. The code isn't. The outputs of the algorithm are public. I think you're suggesting that there is some way we could be running code which implements a different algorithm but which gets the same results as the published algorithm? If so, would it matter? All we need to prove is that your rolls were predetermined, by you, in a way that we couldn't affect. And that's what we do prove.

It is a great idea though, and people seem to be falling for it.

I agree. It's an amazing innovation. For the first time it is possible for players to be mathematically guaranteed of a fair game. There's nothing to "fall for".

And where is the proof that the "server seed" wasn't just generated for you based on a specific result?

The site publishes the hash of the server seed before any play happens. ie. before any result. And before the player picks their own seed. That's the proof - because later the site publishes its server seed and the player verifies that the published server seed does in fact hash to the hash that was published in advance.

The only way the site could cheat the player would be if they could find multiple seeds which hash to the same thing, and as far as I am aware that has never been done. Finding hash collisions is meant to be very hard. And when that is no longer the case, new hash functions are developed to restore that property.

There is real no transparency of what goes on in the server,  to put it in layman's terms - the server shows you what it wants you to see.
I'm not going to argue this any further.

The server shows you what you need to see to verify that everything is fair, but doesn't show you enough for you to be able to cheat. How else would you have it?

Have you read the FAQ on Provably fair?  It explains exactly whats going on server side.  Once you know the server seed, you can sit down with a pencil and paper and calculate the rolls that should have been produced.

Thanks for quoting the posts before they were deleted. It's useful to see the various ways the people who are scared of provable fairness use to try to discredit it.

[BayAreaCoins]

Thanks for quoting the posts before they were deleted. It's useful to see the various ways the people who are scared of provable fairness use to try to discredit it.

Did he remove his post or did the self-mod thread remove it?

o.0

I truly hope he chose to remove it on his own......

[chilly2k]

Thanks for quoting the posts before they were deleted. It's useful to see the various ways the people who are scared of provable fairness use to try to discredit it.

Did he remove his post or did the self-mod thread remove it?

o.0

I truly hope he chose to remove it on his own......

  I think he removed it on his own.  Just when I hit "post" the last time, I got a warning the quoted post was removed. 

[BayAreaCoins]

Thanks for quoting the posts before they were deleted. It's useful to see the various ways the people who are scared of provable fairness use to try to discredit it.

Did he remove his post or did the self-mod thread remove it?

o.0

I truly hope he chose to remove it on his own......

  I think he removed it on his own.  Just when I hit "post" the last time, I got a warning the quoted post was removed. 

Cool!

Gj Chillbert

[SuperClam]

Did he remove his post or did the self-mod thread remove it?
o.0
I truly hope he chose to remove it on his own......

Points mind-reading, tin-foil-penetrating, NWO ray gun at BAC's head.

[BayAreaCoins]

Did he remove his post or did the self-mod thread remove it?
o.0
I truly hope he chose to remove it on his own......

Points mind-reading, tin-foil-penetrating, NWO ray gun at BAC's head.

I swear to god Creative!

I assume that means he deleted it.

*vanishes into the freedom of speech shadows*

Edited to add "freedom of speech"

[SuperClam]

The new open source, hot compiled website is live and accepting contributions.

Site
Source


The website isn't perfect and needs a lot of work - I hope those in the community who have html, markdown, css, or js skills will band together to make the CLAM website the best in the crypto space.

[Krona Rev]

The code to watch blocks for messages to post on mathgate.info has been running almost a week without crashing, so I feel confident enough to make a separate post about it:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1153512.0

[thefix]

The new open source, hot compiled website is live and accepting contributions.

Site
Source


The website isn't perfect and needs a lot of work - I hope those in the community who have html, markdown, css, or js skills will band together to make the CLAM website the best in the crypto space.

Looks good, I wish I had the skills to help out with the site.

Clams has been very good to me, and if you can use me in some other capacity feel free to ask. I am fairly decent building community's on FB and Gplus and know how to target cryptocurrency enthusiasts on both platforms.

Hit me up if you think that would help

[SuperClam]

The new open source, hot compiled website is live and accepting contributions.
Site
Source
The website isn't perfect and needs a lot of work - I hope those in the community who have html, markdown, css, or js skills will band together to make the CLAM website the best in the crypto space.

Looks good, I wish I had the skills to help out with the site.
Clams has been very good to me, and if you can use me in some other capacity feel free to ask. I am fairly decent building community's on FB and Gplus and know how to target cryptocurrency enthusiasts on both platforms.
Hit me up if you think that would help

Of course that would help

We have little no no presence on either platform.

Given that users import keys into our client, we try to be very careful with the word "official" for security reasons.

That said, no reason that you couldn't run some type of fan/community account for the project

[thefix]

The new open source, hot compiled website is live and accepting contributions.
Site
Source
The website isn't perfect and needs a lot of work - I hope those in the community who have html, markdown, css, or js skills will band together to make the CLAM website the best in the crypto space.

Looks good, I wish I had the skills to help out with the site.
Clams has been very good to me, and if you can use me in some other capacity feel free to ask. I am fairly decent building community's on FB and Gplus and know how to target cryptocurrency enthusiasts on both platforms.
Hit me up if you think that would help

Of course that would help

We have little no no presence on either platform.

Given that users import keys into our client, we try to be very careful with the word "official" for security reasons.

That said, no reason that you couldn't run some type of fan/community account for the project

Awesome, I will look at the best option for creating an unofficial fan page and post the info here when it starts to populate.

[thefix]

I see this FB page is linked to from the main website https://www.facebook.com/clamclient

It looks a bit neglected

Is this an official FB page?

[SuperClam]

I see this FB page is linked to from the main website https://www.facebook.com/clamclient

It looks a bit neglected

Is this an official FB page?

I believe garthkiser was running that page.
"Official"-ish, I think is the best way to describe it

Feel welcome to either create an additional page or promote that one

[dooglus]

It's been a while since I updated the chart I was making of "dug" and "staked" CLAMs, so here's an update:

[BayAreaCoins]

It's been a while since I updated the chart I was making of "dug" and "staked" CLAMs, so here's an update:

Great chart.

[syndria]

I wanna try this thank you

[freedomno1]

It's been a while since I updated the chart I was making of "dug" and "staked" CLAMs, so here's an update:

Neat there are a few laggard stakes in there that are still being claimed
Otherwise it looks quite stable now

[Trent Russell]

I tried to learn more about Clams and more about Python by forking Vitalik Buterin's pybitcointools and adding some support for Clams. Unfortunately it only partially works. I was able to create and sign some transactions (both with and without speech) and push them onto the Clams blockchain. But about half the time "sendrawtransaction" in clamd would fail. Probably there's a bug in the clamsign function (or some function it calls) that means I generate faulty signatures half the time.

Nevertheless, here it is:

https://github.com/trentrussell/pybitcointools

If you decide to try it out, be careful. It was done as a learning experience and not to be part of a secure project. If someone sees what I'm doing wrong, please let me know. Or fix it and send me a pull request.