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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1953568 times)
brg444
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August 16, 2015, 11:18:02 PM
 #30801

It doesn't take much brains to figure out why the speed of increase of avg block has accelerated from days where Bitcoin had 10,000 users and how it projects to pickup even more speed as adoption and awareness grows.

"Supply creates its own demand"

This is false.  The growth rate of the average block size was fastest in early 2011.  

Well that sort of makes sense considering it started from barely anything but the point still stand.

Do you propose the growth rate of blocksize to decrease with time. I'm pretty convinced it won't until we start serving half of the transactions on earth (if we do insist on keeping them all on blockchain)

I propose it will grow somewhere between the HIGH and the MODERATE curves in this chart (that I feel I've posted ten times recently):



This would be a very good thing!

I find that quite bearish actually  Undecided

It took Paypal more or less 15 years to get to where they're at. 9 more years for Bitcoin to get there? I propose this is quite unlikely

Consider that some of the industry heads many of you have used to support your positions believe Bitcoin could turn into the reserve currency of the world within the next 10 years. Guess we're shit out of luck if that happens heh

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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August 16, 2015, 11:21:57 PM
 #30802

Side chains are certainly altcoins.

Maybe in your universe.

Lol how are they not?

They are essentially watered down versions of Bitcoin lol with a separate block chain.

Sidechains are not altcoins, nor are they "watered down," nor are their block chain's "seperate."

Do you guys know what the phrase "TWO WAY PEG" means?   Cheesy

Yes, something that is impossible. Ask the SNB (down) or PBOC (up).


There is a world of difference between an economic peg (fiat) and a technical peg (sidechains)

I have argued this before. The market is the proverbial gravity. If the peg is not allowed to break, all value will flow either to the sidechain or out of the sidechain. My personal guess is out of. Meaning the sidecoin fails.

So keep talking about sidechains for ten years, collect and burn mountains of dollar risk capital, because if you try to implement it, it will prove its futility, and investor money dries up.


Wexlike
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August 16, 2015, 11:22:40 PM
 #30803


Just incredible how much crap an early adopter can write. He just writes like an angry internet troll. His posts contain mostly personal attacks.
brg444
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August 16, 2015, 11:27:14 PM
 #30804

Side chains are certainly altcoins.

Maybe in your universe.

Lol how are they not?

They are essentially watered down versions of Bitcoin lol with a separate block chain.

Sidechains are not altcoins, nor are they "watered down," nor are their block chain's "seperate."

Do you guys know what the phrase "TWO WAY PEG" means?   Cheesy

Yes, something that is impossible. Ask the SNB (down) or PBOC (up).


There is a world of difference between an economic peg (fiat) and a technical peg (sidechains)

I have argued this before. The market is the proverbial gravity. If the peg is not allowed to break, all value will flow either to the sidechain or out of the sidechain. My personal guess is out of. Meaning the sidecoin fails.

So keep talking about sidechains for ten years, collect and burn mountains of dollar risk capital, because if you try to implement it, it will prove its futility, and investor capital dries up

The likelihood of sidechains becoming an integral part of Bitcoin is, I'd argue, far more important than any chance XT fork has at succeeding.

Keep burying your head in the ground and ignore innovation

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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August 16, 2015, 11:27:56 PM
 #30805



7-1/2% and climbing. 


In other news, the guy (/u/raisethelimit) who posted the cartoons of the thermos was apparently banned for 30 days for trolling: 



https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoin_uncensored/comments/3h8tf2/uraisethelimit_was_banned_for_30_days_for_posting/

That act alone speaks volumes about the other side's state of mind.

"Throwing their weapons" indeed, as you put it.
brg444
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August 16, 2015, 11:30:22 PM
 #30806


His posts contain a lot of personal attacks. Yet only the simpletons clinging to these "because offended" are unable to recognize the insights. Truth hurts indeed

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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August 16, 2015, 11:31:07 PM
 #30807

When cypherdocs capitulate, there will be future again for Bitcoin.

Sorry pal, you have to get rekt.

Doctor Frappe already got rekt.  He just has too much pride to admit losing so much face.

The last nails for the coffin lid are being pounded in, and he'll be buried soon:

https://twitter.com/NickSzabo4/status/633012686230437889

https://twitter.com/NickSzabo4/status/633023200922746880

https://twitter.com/NickSzabo4/status/633011973634961408

And now here's Szaboshi, throwing the first handful of dirt on the Gavinista's mass grave:



LOOOL, so fukkin' rekt...  I...can't...even...  Cheesy

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Core GUI - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }
MoneroForCash.com  |  Buy and sell XMR near you  |  Easymonero.com  |  Bitsquare.io - Decentralized XMR Exchange  |  Buy XMR with fiat
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004
iCEBREAKER
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August 16, 2015, 11:34:05 PM
 #30808

I combined the Sickpig's idea that the block size limit is a transport limitation that crept into the consensus layer, with Smooth's observation that the Bitcoin white paper never mentions a block size limit, and rolled it into a toned-down version of the "moderators-throwing-their-swords" story:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3h73ws/the_morning_after_the_moderation_mistake_thoughts/

It looks like my post has been removed from r/bitcoin (it had 172 up-votes in 8 hours).  It was near the top of the first page, and then 5 minutes later it was nowhere to be found.  

Both cartoons by /u/raisethelimit were removed too (and one was the second highest post).

..and all pro XT and angry censorship postings are removed from the front of /r/bitcoin. Disgraceful.

There's plenty of room for all of your Gavinista butt-ragings at https://voat.co/v/bitcoinxt .

Just saying...

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Core GUI - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }
MoneroForCash.com  |  Buy and sell XMR near you  |  Easymonero.com  |  Bitsquare.io - Decentralized XMR Exchange  |  Buy XMR with fiat
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004
Erdogan
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August 16, 2015, 11:37:08 PM
 #30809

iCEBRAKER, brg444 you are losing hard, and throwing your swords. I don't see the point.



Peter R
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August 16, 2015, 11:37:21 PM
 #30810


His posts contain a lot of personal attacks. Yet only the simpletons clinging to these "because offended" are unable to recognize the insights. Truth hurts indeed

Can you explain which insights you're referring to?  It looks to me like mostly technical misunderstandings about how a fork would play out combined with a lack of knowledge about Bitcoin.  For example, explain how this is true:

"If Gavincoin wins, Bitcoin holdhouts lose nothing and Gavin supporters gain nothing. If Gavincoin flounders, Gavin supporters lose everything"

Run Bitcoin Unlimited (www.bitcoinunlimited.info)
cypherdoc
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August 16, 2015, 11:37:52 PM
 #30811

oh my:

iCEBREAKER
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August 16, 2015, 11:38:13 PM
 #30812

..and all pro XT and angry censorship postings are removed from the front of /r/bitcoin. Disgraceful.

Indeed. They will be making "A List' next....

I was told that "book burnings" would be next.   Huh

Can you please get your Theymos Is Literally Hitler narrative sorted out?  It's getting confusing.

And why are you still here in the land of oppression, instead of running free and wild at https://voat.co/v/bitcoinxt ?

Did Hearn set up a checkpoint, or what?

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Core GUI - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }
MoneroForCash.com  |  Buy and sell XMR near you  |  Easymonero.com  |  Bitsquare.io - Decentralized XMR Exchange  |  Buy XMR with fiat
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004
cypherdoc
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August 16, 2015, 11:40:24 PM
 #30813

August 15, 2015:  The Day that iCE went crazy.
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August 16, 2015, 11:41:31 PM
 #30814

iCEBRAKER, brg444 you are losing hard, and throwing your swords. I don't see the point.




i prefer, "losing your cookies".

or, "projectile vomiting" will suffice.
brg444
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August 16, 2015, 11:41:36 PM
 #30815

I combined the Sickpig's idea that the block size limit is a transport limitation that crept into the consensus layer, with Smooth's observation that the Bitcoin white paper never mentions a block size limit, and rolled it into a toned-down version of the "moderators-throwing-their-swords" story:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3h73ws/the_morning_after_the_moderation_mistake_thoughts/

It looks like my post has been removed from r/bitcoin (it had 172 up-votes in 8 hours).  It was near the top of the first page, and then 5 minutes later it was nowhere to be found.  

Both cartoons by /u/raisethelimit were removed too (and one was the second highest post).

..and all pro XT and angry censorship postings are removed from the front of /r/bitcoin. Disgraceful.

There's plenty of room for all of your Gavinista butt-ragings at https://voat.co/v/bitcoinxt .

Just saying...

  Grin

The cognitive dissonance is amazing.

"Screw you guys we're forking and there's nothing you can do about it! We're gonna need our subreddit though..."

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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August 16, 2015, 11:44:18 PM
 #30816

I combined the Sickpig's idea that the block size limit is a transport limitation that crept into the consensus layer, with Smooth's observation that the Bitcoin white paper never mentions a block size limit, and rolled it into a toned-down version of the "moderators-throwing-their-swords" story:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3h73ws/the_morning_after_the_moderation_mistake_thoughts/

It looks like my post has been removed from r/bitcoin (it had 172 up-votes in 8 hours).  It was near the top of the first page, and then 5 minutes later it was nowhere to be found.  

Both cartoons by /u/raisethelimit were removed too (and one was the second highest post).

..and all pro XT and angry censorship postings are removed from the front of /r/bitcoin. Disgraceful.

There's plenty of room for all of your Gavinista butt-ragings at https://voat.co/v/bitcoinxt .

Just saying...

  Grin

The cognitive dissonance is amazing.

"Screw you guys we're forking and there's nothing you can do about it! We're gonna need our subreddit though..."

Yes, and we don't want to move to a free country, we want the government to leave, they are the criminals after all ... Smiley

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August 16, 2015, 11:45:17 PM
 #30817

With respect to Nick Most-Likely-To-Be-Satoshi-And-That-Is-Worth-A-Lot-Even-If -He-Isn't Szabo, I despise the "$4 billion system" argument. Every one of those investors knows it is a high risk asset with the potential for a 1000x return (and therefore, by any reasonable economics or logic, enormous risks). These are not widows and orphans.

Maybe the block size increase is a bad idea and maybe XT is a bad way to do it, but that argument is absurd sensationalism at its worst.

brg444
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August 16, 2015, 11:48:11 PM
 #30818

I combined the Sickpig's idea that the block size limit is a transport limitation that crept into the consensus layer, with Smooth's observation that the Bitcoin white paper never mentions a block size limit, and rolled it into a toned-down version of the "moderators-throwing-their-swords" story:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3h73ws/the_morning_after_the_moderation_mistake_thoughts/

It looks like my post has been removed from r/bitcoin (it had 172 up-votes in 8 hours).  It was near the top of the first page, and then 5 minutes later it was nowhere to be found.  

Both cartoons by /u/raisethelimit were removed too (and one was the second highest post).

..and all pro XT and angry censorship postings are removed from the front of /r/bitcoin. Disgraceful.

There's plenty of room for all of your Gavinista butt-ragings at https://voat.co/v/bitcoinxt .

Just saying...

  Grin

The cognitive dissonance is amazing.

"Screw you guys we're forking and there's nothing you can do about it! We're gonna need our subreddit though..."

Yes, and we don't want to move to a free country, we want the government to leave, they are the criminals after all ... Smiley


 Smiley

You know that's what millions of people throughout history actually did right?

That's called an "exit". Seeing as an exit on the internet is not limited by costly physical constraints I really fail to see the point you're trying to make.

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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August 16, 2015, 11:49:39 PM
 #30819

With respect to Nick Most-Likely-To-Be-Satoshi-And-That-Is-Worth-A-Lot-Even-If -He-Isn't Szabo, I despise the "$4 billion system" argument. Every one of those investors knows it is a high risk asset with the potential for a 1000x return (and therefore, by any reasonable economics or logic, enormous risks). These are not widows and orphans.

Maybe the block size increase is a bad idea and maybe XT is a bad way to do it, but that argument is absurd sensationalism at its worst.


Now, not yesterday, but today every bitcoin guru wannabe comes creeping out of the woodwork saying of course we need bigblocks but just something a tad different. I say hurry and sweep something together, build, test and distribute, or forever keep your peace.


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August 16, 2015, 11:51:24 PM
 #30820

Sidechains are not altcoins, nor are they "watered down," nor are their block chain's "seperate."

Do you guys know what the phrase "TWO WAY PEG" means?   Cheesy

Yes, something that is impossible. Ask the SNB (down) or PBOC (up).


Fiat, LOL.

Do you know what the phrase "ATOMIC TRANSACTION" means?   Cheesy

(Keep acting stupid, I can do this all day.)

Keep acting smart.


NMF you started blathering about fiat nonsense in a discussion about crypto and e-cash.   Tongue

Don't worry, TWP and AT are our friends!

https://people.xiph.org/~greg/blockstream.gmaxwell.elements.talk.060815.pdf

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Core GUI - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }
MoneroForCash.com  |  Buy and sell XMR near you  |  Easymonero.com  |  Bitsquare.io - Decentralized XMR Exchange  |  Buy XMR with fiat
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004
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