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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2008957 times)
cypherdoc
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August 06, 2015, 12:47:38 AM
 #29841

Peter's problem, if you call it a problem at all, is that I've only seen one person have the confidence or ability to step up and discuss the math with him. That's pretty damn  impressive.

Instead, all we get is a childish scolding by a hand waving armchair logic dev also by the name of Peter.
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August 06, 2015, 01:43:53 AM
 #29842

Peter's problem, if you call it a problem at all, is that I've only seen one person have the confidence or ability to step up and discuss the math with him. That's pretty damn  impressive.

Instead, all we get is a childish scolding by a hand waving armchair logic dev also by the name of Peter.

That's why I think this will not be solved with more debate.

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August 06, 2015, 01:50:13 AM
 #29843

Gavin responds with a killer answer, similar to the one i've made before, to a Blockstream dev who fails to consider anything except his tunnel vision concept of a "small miner".  bottom line being, just b/c a small miner might be small says nothing about his capacity to fend off attacks from "large miners":

On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 7:24 PM, Jorge Timón <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

    Miner A is able to process 100 M tx/block while miner B is only able
    to process 10 M tx/block.

    Will miner B be able to maintain itself competitive against miner B?

    The answer is: it depends on the consensus maximum block size.

 
No, it depends on all of the variables that go into the mining profitability equation.

Does miner B have access to cheaper electricity than miner A?
Access to more advanced mining hardware, sooner?
Ability to use excess heat generated from mining productively?
Access to inexpensive labor to oversee their operations?
Access to inexpensive capital to finance investment in hardware?

The number of fee-paying transactions a miner can profitably include in their blocks will certainly eventually be part of that equation (it is insignificant today), and that's fantastic-- we WANT miners to include lots of transactions in their blocks.

--
--
Gavin Andresen



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cypherdoc
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August 06, 2015, 01:52:05 AM
 #29844

Peter's problem, if you call it a problem at all, is that I've only seen one person have the confidence or ability to step up and discuss the math with him. That's pretty damn  impressive.

Instead, all we get is a childish scolding by a hand waving armchair logic dev also by the name of Peter.

That's why I think this will not be solved with more debate.

correct. 
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August 06, 2015, 02:09:38 AM
 #29845

Peter's problem, if you call it a problem at all, is that I've only seen one person have the confidence or ability to step up and discuss the math with him. That's pretty damn  impressive.

Instead, all we get is a childish scolding by a hand waving armchair logic dev also by the name of Peter.

That's why I think this will not be solved with more debate.

More debate won't solve this *in the way you prefer.*

But more debate prolongs the stalemate, which is the preferred outcome of Team Core.

I don't see Frap.doc listed here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/graphs/contributors

PT is #15 in terms of commits to Bitcoin.  The nerve of Doctor Frappe and you flinging the counterfactul "armchair" label at him is astonishing.

But I'm not worried about PT's feelings being hurt, because of the astronomical levels of satisfaction he is surely deriving from so successfully trolling and wrecking you hapless Gavinistas.   Cool


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
Buy XMR with fiat
shane
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August 06, 2015, 02:38:17 AM
 #29846

so which is better for investmen ?
sell gold buy bitcoin ?
or
sell bitcoin and buy gold  ?

Huh




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August 06, 2015, 02:39:16 AM
 #29847

so which is better for investmen ?
sell gold buy bitcoin ?
or
sell bitcoin and buy gold  ?

Huh

Sell both. Hold dollars. As long as King Dollar is on the throne pretty much everything else is fighting a losing battle. Eventually that will reverse, but not yet.
cypherdoc
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August 06, 2015, 02:45:41 AM
 #29848

so which is better for investmen ?
sell gold buy bitcoin ?
or
sell bitcoin and buy gold  ?

Huh

Sell both. Hold dollars. As long as King Dollar is on the throne pretty much everything else is fighting a losing battle. Eventually that will reverse, but not yet.


no wonder you're such a Monero bull.

don't you think it's kinda contradictory that you think block scaling is a selling pt for Monero but would be a negative for Bitcoin?
smooth
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August 06, 2015, 03:29:27 AM
 #29849

so which is better for investmen ?
sell gold buy bitcoin ?
or
sell bitcoin and buy gold  ?

Huh

Sell both. Hold dollars. As long as King Dollar is on the throne pretty much everything else is fighting a losing battle. Eventually that will reverse, but not yet.


no wonder you're such a Monero bull.

don't you think it's kinda contradictory that you think block scaling is a selling pt for Monero but would be a negative for Bitcoin?

I already said on this thread that I'm not sure block scaling in Monero will work out. At least one if not more of the core developers wanted to remove it, and it was only left as an experiment to see what happens (after all it could work).

What does that have to do with King Dollar anyway? I'm not really much of a Monero bull right now in trading terms for that reason, although if you are trading XMRBTC (as opposed to effective XMRUSD), that is doing okay at the moment.
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August 06, 2015, 06:29:18 AM
 #29850

fiat is king. btw the hate bitcoiners have against fiat is far stronger than the political skirmish some moneranoj have against bitcoin (me included, I dont see reasons to use bitcoin anymore), seeing how bitcoin needs fiat to survive its quite a paradox it is hated so much, monero on other hand doesnt need bitcoin to survive.
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August 06, 2015, 06:54:57 AM
 #29851



Code:
Gavin in May 2015: "increasing the max block size is urgent"
Gavin in July 2015: "The sky will not fall if the block size stays at 1MB"


Urgency begins before the sky is falling. Only limited brains would wait until the sky is falling.

I just quoted you Gavin saying "The sky will not fall."  How fucking thick are you?

He's right. The sky would not fall.
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August 06, 2015, 07:16:00 AM
 #29852

fiat is king. btw the hate bitcoiners have against fiat is far stronger than the political skirmish some moneranoj have against bitcoin (me included, I dont see reasons to use bitcoin anymore), seeing how bitcoin needs fiat to survive its quite a paradox it is hated so much, monero on other hand doesnt need bitcoin to survive.

That's so true. Agree with you wholeheartedly. Bitcoin is nothing in a real life without fiat.
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August 06, 2015, 07:51:19 AM
 #29853

Peter's problem, if you call it a problem at all, is that I've only seen one person have the confidence or ability to step up and discuss the math with him. That's pretty damn  impressive.

Instead, all we get is a childish scolding by a hand waving armchair logic dev also by the name of Peter.

That's why I think this will not be solved with more debate.

More debate won't solve this *in the way you prefer.*

But more debate prolongs the stalemate,

Why monero matters
- Adaptive limits. Doesn't suffer from the 1MB block limits


https://moneroeconomy.com/faq/why-monero-matters
sgbett
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August 06, 2015, 09:24:53 AM
 #29854

How anything can be a mystery to someone of such overwhelming intelligence is the real puzzle here. Sidestepped again, oh woe is me. It's not my job to explain your own view to you. Only you can bring yourself to your senses, you've proved countless times that you won't hear reason from anyone else.

The thrust of the Rome Burning metaphor is not the fact that Rome burns, but that you are Nero meddling fiddling whilst it happens. You missed that point though, so eager to to try and deny that there is any risk https://medium.com/@octskyward/crash-landing-f5cc19908e32

...and gavin said what now?

There is a very good blog post by David Hudson at hashingit.com analyzing what will happen on the network as we approach 100% full blocks. Please visit that link for full details, but basically he points out there is a mismatch between when transactions are created and when blocks are found– and that mismatch means very bad things start to happen on the network as the one megabyte limit is reached.

The only mystery here is how you could possibly extrapolate "moral bankruptcy" and well being coming "at the expense of others" from Davout's explicit "everyone gets to benefit" specification.  I suspect you are assigning moral solvency exclusively to equality of outcome, like a typical Free Shit Army Marxist.

And for the coup de grace, here is what Gavin said last month about your Sky Falling/Rome Burning/Red Zone/QUICK LET'S ALL PANIC-based attempts to ram through ill-considered hard forks using fear and mass hysteria:



Keep in mind this is the same Gavin who declared "increasing the max block size is urgent" back in early May.  Gavin must be using some exotic radial definition of "urgent" with which I am not familiar, because despite his FUD nothing bad happened, and as a result of 'meddling by doing nothing' we now enjoy the benefits of better node/pool/mine configurations, smarter wallet software, RBF, fee market incubation, and pressure on SC/LN development.

Code:
Gavin in May 2015: "increasing the max block size is urgent"
Gavin in July 2015: "The sky will not fall if the block size stays at 1MB"


#REKT


The problem with calling people 'fucking morons' is it really bites you in the ass when you say something stupid yourself.

Your "coup de grace" only serves to illustrate the point I have made several times here, that whatever anyone says, you will find some way to spin it to suit your own agenda.

Here is your last post, without the fancy words:

I don't understand why its fair for everyone to be able to use the blockchain, I'm afraid that somehow I won't be able to get more benefit than everyone else, so I'll call you names.

I don't really care about facts or reason, I just like arguing on the internet because I feel safe protected by anonymity and the lack of accountability it affords me. Look how I can misconstrue this quote to support my argument.

Hey everyone look at me I am super cool because I can make text red and I know what a hashtag is.

Yeah its ad hom. sue me.

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August 06, 2015, 10:50:44 AM
 #29855

How anything can be a mystery to someone of such overwhelming intelligence is the real puzzle here. Sidestepped again, oh woe is me. It's not my job to explain your own view to you. Only you can bring yourself to your senses, you've proved countless times that you won't hear reason from anyone else.

The thrust of the Rome Burning metaphor is not the fact that Rome burns, but that you are Nero meddling fiddling whilst it happens. You missed that point though, so eager to to try and deny that there is any risk https://medium.com/@octskyward/crash-landing-f5cc19908e32

...and gavin said what now?

There is a very good blog post by David Hudson at hashingit.com analyzing what will happen on the network as we approach 100% full blocks. Please visit that link for full details, but basically he points out there is a mismatch between when transactions are created and when blocks are found– and that mismatch means very bad things start to happen on the network as the one megabyte limit is reached.

The only mystery here is how you could possibly extrapolate "moral bankruptcy" and well being coming "at the expense of others" from Davout's explicit "everyone gets to benefit" specification.  I suspect you are assigning moral solvency exclusively to equality of outcome, like a typical Free Shit Army Marxist.

And for the coup de grace, here is what Gavin said last month about your Sky Falling/Rome Burning/Red Zone/QUICK LET'S ALL PANIC-based attempts to ram through ill-considered hard forks using fear and mass hysteria:



Keep in mind this is the same Gavin who declared "increasing the max block size is urgent" back in early May.  Gavin must be using some exotic radial definition of "urgent" with which I am not familiar, because despite his FUD nothing bad happened, and as a result of 'meddling by doing nothing' we now enjoy the benefits of better node/pool/mine configurations, smarter wallet software, RBF, fee market incubation, and pressure on SC/LN development.

Code:
Gavin in May 2015: "increasing the max block size is urgent"
Gavin in July 2015: "The sky will not fall if the block size stays at 1MB"


#REKT


The problem with calling people 'fucking morons' is it really bites you in the ass when you say something stupid yourself.

Your "coup de grace" only serves to illustrate the point I have made several times here, that whatever anyone says, you will find some way to spin it to suit your own agenda.

Here is your last post, without the fancy words:

I don't understand why its fair for everyone to be able to use the blockchain, I'm afraid that somehow I won't be able to get more benefit than everyone else, so I'll call you names.

I don't really care about facts or reason, I just like arguing on the internet because I feel safe protected by anonymity and the lack of accountability it affords me. Look how I can misconstrue this quote to support my argument.

Hey everyone look at me I am super cool because I can make text red and I know what a hashtag is.

Yeah its ad hom. sue me.
Nicely done.  Smiley

I decided that decentralised internet ego's have a tendency to disappear up ones own arse, eventually. Really boring process to watch, actually. 
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August 06, 2015, 11:46:14 AM
 #29856


The problem with calling people 'fucking morons' is it really bites you in the ass when you say something stupid yourself.

Your "coup de grace" only serves to illustrate the point I have made several times here, that whatever anyone says, you will find some way to spin it to suit your own agenda.

Here is your last post, without the fancy words:

I don't understand why its fair for everyone to be able to use the blockchain, I'm afraid that somehow I won't be able to get more benefit than everyone else, so I'll call you names.

I don't really care about facts or reason, I just like arguing on the internet because I feel safe protected by anonymity and the lack of accountability it affords me. Look how I can misconstrue this quote to support my argument.

Hey everyone look at me I am super cool because I can make text red and I know what a hashtag is.

Yeah its ad hom. sue me.


class dismissed.  Grin
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August 06, 2015, 12:05:07 PM
 #29857

Peter's problem, if you call it a problem at all, is that I've only seen one person have the confidence or ability to step up and discuss the math with him. That's pretty damn  impressive.

Instead, all we get is a childish scolding by a hand waving armchair logic dev also by the name of Peter.

That's why I think this will not be solved with more debate.

More debate won't solve this *in the way you prefer.*

But more debate prolongs the stalemate,

Why monero matters
- Adaptive limits. Doesn't suffer from the 1MB block limits


https://moneroeconomy.com/faq/why-monero-matters

Exactly
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August 06, 2015, 12:11:18 PM
 #29858


The problem with calling people 'fucking morons' is it really bites you in the ass when you say something stupid yourself.

Your "coup de grace" only serves to illustrate the point I have made several times here, that whatever anyone says, you will find some way to spin it to suit your own agenda.

Here is your last post, without the fancy words:

I don't understand why its fair for everyone to be able to use the blockchain, I'm afraid that somehow I won't be able to get more benefit than everyone else, so I'll call you names.

I don't really care about facts or reason, I just like arguing on the internet because I feel safe protected by anonymity and the lack of accountability it affords me. Look how I can misconstrue this quote to support my argument.

Hey everyone look at me I am super cool because I can make text red and I know what a hashtag is.

Yeah its ad hom. sue me.


class dismissed.  Grin

Clearly sgbett is better than me at this  Cheesy
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August 06, 2015, 12:58:24 PM
 #29859

fiat is king. btw the hate bitcoiners have against fiat is far stronger than the political skirmish some moneranoj have against bitcoin (me included, I dont see reasons to use bitcoin anymore), seeing how bitcoin needs fiat to survive its quite a paradox it is hated so much, monero on other hand doesnt need bitcoin to survive.

So says the Monero pimp.
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August 06, 2015, 02:13:24 PM
 #29860


PT is getting trashed in the rest of the comment section those who seem sick of him are getting very highly upvoted

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3fuz2s/peter_todd_against_gavin_on_the_bitcoindev/

I think this whole blocksize "debate" has opened a lot of people's eyes.

the pro-bigger block upvotes on Reddit, IN GENERAL, are increasing in intensity and pitch and trashing Cripplecoiner's.  the whole lot of Blockstream core dev has been "in absentia" for weeks now and even the personal attacks against me are subsiding in intensity.

poor Cripplecoiner's.  the day of reckoning is nearing.
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