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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1981662 times)
cypherdoc
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August 07, 2015, 10:32:23 PM
 #29961


just finished that one.

yeah, EFF usually has a good nose about these things.
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August 07, 2015, 10:58:20 PM
 #29962

The economy has been growing since 2010.
The economy has been growing since 2010.
Yes, it has been growing since 2010.

these guys used to be one of the biggest bulk carrier companies in the world.  not so much anymore:


OMG you sound like the conspiracy idiots at Zero Knowledge.  Don't you know [easy credit * car loans] = [economic growth]?

As long as credit (which is money) is growing, the economy is growing as well.
As soon as the total credit sum deflates, the economy deflates as well.
This is in short the 1x1 of capitalism, which is debitism.

Less credit (less money) = less economy
Moar credit = moar economy

https://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?width=630&height=378&range=Max&id=TCMDO

and as Cypher and iCE elude too that does not benefit the 99% but just those with assess to type of capital you need to fund multinational corporations and there acquisitions so yes the system is growing, no it's not healthy.

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
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August 07, 2015, 11:32:14 PM
 #29963

Interesting piece on the 2013 fork.  https://freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/randomwalker/analyzing-the-2013-bitcoin-fork-centralized-decision-making-saved-the-day/?utm_content=buffer4f46c&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Some ungrateful people here need to show a little more respect for the work of the devs, especially LukeJr.

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
cypherdoc
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August 07, 2015, 11:39:19 PM
 #29964

Interesting piece on the 2013 fork.  https://freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/randomwalker/analyzing-the-2013-bitcoin-fork-centralized-decision-making-saved-the-day/?utm_content=buffer4f46c&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Some ungrateful people here need to show a little more respect for the work of the devs, especially LukeJr.

You of all people would idolize Luke jr
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August 07, 2015, 11:49:58 PM
 #29965

Interesting piece on the 2013 fork.  https://freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/randomwalker/analyzing-the-2013-bitcoin-fork-centralized-decision-making-saved-the-day/?utm_content=buffer4f46c&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Some ungrateful people here need to show a little more respect for the work of the devs, especially LukeJr.

You of all people would idolize Luke jr

You of all ungrateful people here need to show a little more respect for the work of the devs, especially LukeJr.

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Core GUI - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }
MoneroForCash.com  |  Buy and sell XMR near you  |  Easymonero.com  |  Bitsquare.io - Decentralized XMR Exchange  |  Buy XMR with fiat
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004
cypherdoc
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August 08, 2015, 12:03:48 AM
 #29966

Interesting piece on the 2013 fork.  https://freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/randomwalker/analyzing-the-2013-bitcoin-fork-centralized-decision-making-saved-the-day/?utm_content=buffer4f46c&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Some ungrateful people here need to show a little more respect for the work of the devs, especially LukeJr.

You of all people would idolize Luke jr

You of all ungrateful people here need to show a little more respect for the work of the devs, especially LukeJr.

no, i for one, will be more than happy to fork away from all those devs and you, esp LukeJr.
brg444
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August 08, 2015, 12:05:09 AM
 #29967

Interesting piece on the 2013 fork.  https://freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/randomwalker/analyzing-the-2013-bitcoin-fork-centralized-decision-making-saved-the-day/?utm_content=buffer4f46c&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Some ungrateful people here need to show a little more respect for the work of the devs, especially LukeJr.

You of all people would idolize Luke jr

I have no reason to idolize or care about Luke Jr.

Just maybe consider that he had the right insight in this particular scenario and avoided us a great deal of the trouble we would have encountered had we went with Gavin's proposed "solution.

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
2112
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August 08, 2015, 12:23:17 AM
 #29968

Interesting piece on the 2013 fork.  https://freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/randomwalker/analyzing-the-2013-bitcoin-fork-centralized-decision-making-saved-the-day/

Some ungrateful people here need to show a little more respect for the work of the devs, especially LukeJr.
Thanks for posting that link. It was a great example of how to manufacture panic and raise trivial resource allocation problems into widespread abuse opportunities.

It is still interesting that despite years passing nearly nobody in the Bitcoin development circles has even a passing knowledge of operational issues with database management systems.

The problem could have been trivially fixed by creating two line text file and restarting the Bitcoin daemon. The patch could be issued later after more careful analysis.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=152208.0

The crowd around Mircea Popescu follows the same path years later:

http://qntra.net/2015/08/new-per-block-transaction-highs-wedge-some-nodes-patch-available/


Please comment, critique, criticize or ridicule BIP 2112: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54382.0
Long-term mining prognosis: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91101.0
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August 08, 2015, 12:26:59 AM
 #29969

Luke Jr. ... had the right insight in this particular scenario and avoided us a great deal of the trouble we would have encountered had we went with Gavin's proposed "solution.

Frap.doc hasn't forgotten that.  It's increased his cognitive dissonance, in the form of fuel for his long lasting buttburn.

These days, gmax and ptodd don't even make his 'I hate your stupid face' shortlist!   Cheesy

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Core GUI - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }
MoneroForCash.com  |  Buy and sell XMR near you  |  Easymonero.com  |  Bitsquare.io - Decentralized XMR Exchange  |  Buy XMR with fiat
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004
cypherdoc
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August 08, 2015, 12:33:00 AM
 #29970

Interesting piece on the 2013 fork.  https://freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/randomwalker/analyzing-the-2013-bitcoin-fork-centralized-decision-making-saved-the-day/?utm_content=buffer4f46c&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Some ungrateful people here need to show a little more respect for the work of the devs, especially LukeJr.

You of all people would idolize Luke jr

I have no reason to idolize or care about Luke Jr.

Just maybe consider that he had the right insight in this particular scenario and avoided us a great deal of the trouble we would have encountered had we went with Gavin's proposed "solution.

just finished reading that.  Luke did have the right intuition right off the bat.  kudos to him.

interesting comment below:

"23:31    Eleuthria    I absolutely agree, there is no way the 0.8 chain can continue in this situation. An involuntary hardfork doesn't gain legitimacy due to majority. "

edit:  he's referring to the fact that Gox was on 0.7
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August 08, 2015, 12:38:10 AM
 #29971

Interesting piece on the 2013 fork.  https://freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/randomwalker/analyzing-the-2013-bitcoin-fork-centralized-decision-making-saved-the-day/

Some ungrateful people here need to show a little more respect for the work of the devs, especially LukeJr.
Thanks for posting that link. It was a great example of how to manufacture panic and raise trivial resource allocation problems into widespread abuse opportunities.

It is still interesting that despite years passing nearly nobody in the Bitcoin development circles has even a passing knowledge of operational issues with database management systems.

The problem could have been trivially fixed by creating two line text file and restarting the Bitcoin daemon. The patch could be issued later after more careful analysis.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=152208.0

The crowd around Mircea Popescu follows the same path years later:

http://qntra.net/2015/08/new-per-block-transaction-highs-wedge-some-nodes-patch-available/



wtf is this from your 2nd link?  Cripplecoiner's Idol?:


Mircea Popescu says:   
August 1, 2015 at 5:09 pm

"Bitcoin Core" is the name a collection of USG moles and assorted scammers are giving to a pile of spaghetti that's unfit to run on Windows even.

It did enjoy some temporary attention in the early days of Bitcoin, chiefly through the happenstance that there not being any actual brains involved with the project.

Meanwhile it's lost any importance, either intellectual or practical. Miners run homebrew, thinking people run the Bitcoin Foundation client. That's all, really.
Reply   
Adrian-x
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August 08, 2015, 12:53:58 AM
 #29972

Interesting piece on the 2013 fork.  https://freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/randomwalker/analyzing-the-2013-bitcoin-fork-centralized-decision-making-saved-the-day/?utm_content=buffer4f46c&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Some ungrateful people here need to show a little more respect for the work of the devs, especially LukeJr.

You of all people would idolize Luke jr

I have no reason to idolize or care about Luke Jr.

Just maybe consider that he had the right insight in this particular scenario and avoided us a great deal of the trouble we would have encountered had we went with Gavin's proposed "solution.

just finished reading that.  Luke did have the right intuition right off the bat.  kudos to him.

interesting comment below:

"23:31    Eleuthria    I absolutely agree, there is no way the 0.8 chain can continue in this situation. An involuntary hardfork doesn't gain legitimacy due to majority. "

I was mining on BTCguild back then, I was rather disappeared at that decision at the time but none the less developers may have stressed but in my mind it highlight how simply it was to implement a hard fork so long as the intent was honorable, also it makes the idea that one fork become an altcoin seem daft. Power players like Eleuthria knew exactly where their interests lay and voluntary gave up the advantage he had and his customer had to the benefit of the merchants who provide services to the community at large.

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
Zarathustra
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August 08, 2015, 06:42:48 AM
 #29973

The economy has been growing since 2010.
The economy has been growing since 2010.
Yes, it has been growing since 2010.

these guys used to be one of the biggest bulk carrier companies in the world.  not so much anymore:


OMG you sound like the conspiracy idiots at Zero Knowledge.  Don't you know [easy credit * car loans] = [economic growth]?

As long as credit (which is money) is growing, the economy is growing as well.
As soon as the total credit sum deflates, the economy deflates as well.
This is in short the 1x1 of capitalism, which is debitism.

Less credit (less money) = less economy
Moar credit = moar economy

https://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?width=630&height=378&range=Max&id=TCMDO

and as Cypher and iCE elude too that does not benefit the 99% but just those with assess to type of capital you need to fund multinational corporations and there acquisitions so yes the system is growing, no it's not healthy.

Capitalism (Debitism) has never been 'healthy'. It is a state bastard, cyclically growing rampant until it implodes. That's never been something for the 99%. That's the difference to an anarchistic life style of the paleolithic self-sufficient communities. The neolithic revolution is the invention of the state mafia (patriarchy), the birth of the tragedy. But collectivists (iCEmen, kRUGmen et al.) don't like anarchism.

Cypher's mentality represents the mentality of an idealist - while iCE et al. represent the mentality of the aristocrats (1%).
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August 08, 2015, 07:43:32 AM
 #29974

the sweet smell of deflation:


Don't worry, if you thought Bennie's helicopter drop was large you haven't seen anything yet. The FED will panic print to dig out of the debt depression hole they've created and the only things that will survive are real assets and real money. XOM owns real assets and will still exist on the other size of the FED's crash and still pay out cash flow from operations, in whatever unit is used as currency at the time.

In a society (which is the opposite of a self-sufficient, paleolitic, pre-patriarchal, anarchic community), assets are always valued in debt (=money).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt:_The_First_5000_Years

When debt (money) disappeared, the society disappeared as well. That's 'life' since the neolithic revolution, the invention of the state (organized violence).

Crypto/Bitcoin is the best enemy of the society.
@Fonestar, a brilliant commentator of the articles on Zero Knowledge: "The Bitcoiners are going to totally destroy your society and your laws"
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August 08, 2015, 10:34:37 AM
 #29975

In a society (which is the opposite of a self-sufficient, paleolitic, pre-patriarchal, anarchic community), assets are always valued in debt (=money).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt:_The_First_5000_Years

yeah, because no one ever used gold and silver as money, or any other commodity-money. Or if they did, they were paleolithic, like USA 1-2 centuries ago.
[/leftist drivel]
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August 08, 2015, 11:44:08 AM
 #29976

Interesting piece on the 2013 fork.  https://freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/randomwalker/analyzing-the-2013-bitcoin-fork-centralized-decision-making-saved-the-day/?utm_content=buffer4f46c&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Some ungrateful people here need to show a little more respect for the work of the devs, especially LukeJr.

You of all people would idolize Luke jr

You of all ungrateful people here need to show a little more respect for the work of the devs, especially LukeJr.

Uh no. No one needs to show more respect for LukeJr.

Who made him king?  Roll Eyes

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. ★☆ WWW.LEALANA.COM        My PGP fingerprint is A764D833.        SMOOTHIE'S HEALTH AND FITNESS JOURNAL          History of Monero development Visualization ★☆ .
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August 08, 2015, 02:11:46 PM
 #29977

In a society (which is the opposite of a self-sufficient, paleolitic, pre-patriarchal, anarchic community), assets are always valued in debt (=money).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt:_The_First_5000_Years

yeah, because no one ever used gold and silver as money, or any other commodity-money. Or if they did, they were paleolithic, like USA 1-2 centuries ago.
[/leftist drivel]

Metals are only derivatives of money (which is debt, from the very beginning). Without debt, there is no economy, but self-sufficiency (anarchy).
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August 08, 2015, 02:20:40 PM
 #29978

Gold collapsing. Bitcoin collapsing. It won't stop...

BTC: 1K9atu5zgz7izCMAynk5adBJ8Qn2YgS6nT
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Me, myself and I


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August 08, 2015, 02:42:04 PM
 #29979

Gold collapsing. Bitcoin collapsing. It won't stop...
Not only gold and bitcoin, oil and copper collapsing too. Gold will crash under $1000 and bitcoin its hard for me to say but sorry bitcoin will crash under $250  Cry
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August 08, 2015, 03:33:43 PM
 #29980

In a society (which is the opposite of a self-sufficient, paleolitic, pre-patriarchal, anarchic community), assets are always valued in debt (=money).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt:_The_First_5000_Years

yeah, because no one ever used gold and silver as money, or any other commodity-money. Or if they did, they were paleolithic, like USA 1-2 centuries ago.
[/leftist drivel]

Metals are only derivatives of money (which is debt, from the very beginning). Without debt, there is no economy, but self-sufficiency (anarchy).

Evry movement have their own words...

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