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News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.15.1  [Torrent].
 
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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2009083 times)
cypherdoc
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August 07, 2015, 11:39:19 PM
 #29961

Interesting piece on the 2013 fork.  https://freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/randomwalker/analyzing-the-2013-bitcoin-fork-centralized-decision-making-saved-the-day/?utm_content=buffer4f46c&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Some ungrateful people here need to show a little more respect for the work of the devs, especially LukeJr.

You of all people would idolize Luke jr
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August 07, 2015, 11:49:58 PM
 #29962

Interesting piece on the 2013 fork.  https://freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/randomwalker/analyzing-the-2013-bitcoin-fork-centralized-decision-making-saved-the-day/?utm_content=buffer4f46c&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Some ungrateful people here need to show a little more respect for the work of the devs, especially LukeJr.

You of all people would idolize Luke jr

You of all ungrateful people here need to show a little more respect for the work of the devs, especially LukeJr.


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
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cypherdoc
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August 08, 2015, 12:03:48 AM
 #29963

Interesting piece on the 2013 fork.  https://freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/randomwalker/analyzing-the-2013-bitcoin-fork-centralized-decision-making-saved-the-day/?utm_content=buffer4f46c&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Some ungrateful people here need to show a little more respect for the work of the devs, especially LukeJr.

You of all people would idolize Luke jr

You of all ungrateful people here need to show a little more respect for the work of the devs, especially LukeJr.

no, i for one, will be more than happy to fork away from all those devs and you, esp LukeJr.
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August 08, 2015, 12:05:09 AM
 #29964

Interesting piece on the 2013 fork.  https://freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/randomwalker/analyzing-the-2013-bitcoin-fork-centralized-decision-making-saved-the-day/?utm_content=buffer4f46c&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Some ungrateful people here need to show a little more respect for the work of the devs, especially LukeJr.

You of all people would idolize Luke jr

I have no reason to idolize or care about Luke Jr.

Just maybe consider that he had the right insight in this particular scenario and avoided us a great deal of the trouble we would have encountered had we went with Gavin's proposed "solution.

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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August 08, 2015, 12:23:17 AM
 #29965

Interesting piece on the 2013 fork.  https://freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/randomwalker/analyzing-the-2013-bitcoin-fork-centralized-decision-making-saved-the-day/

Some ungrateful people here need to show a little more respect for the work of the devs, especially LukeJr.
Thanks for posting that link. It was a great example of how to manufacture panic and raise trivial resource allocation problems into widespread abuse opportunities.

It is still interesting that despite years passing nearly nobody in the Bitcoin development circles has even a passing knowledge of operational issues with database management systems.

The problem could have been trivially fixed by creating two line text file and restarting the Bitcoin daemon. The patch could be issued later after more careful analysis.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=152208.0

The crowd around Mircea Popescu follows the same path years later:

http://qntra.net/2015/08/new-per-block-transaction-highs-wedge-some-nodes-patch-available/


Please comment, critique, criticize or ridicule BIP 2112: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54382.0
Long-term mining prognosis: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91101.0
iCEBREAKER
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August 08, 2015, 12:26:59 AM
 #29966

Luke Jr. ... had the right insight in this particular scenario and avoided us a great deal of the trouble we would have encountered had we went with Gavin's proposed "solution.

Frap.doc hasn't forgotten that.  It's increased his cognitive dissonance, in the form of fuel for his long lasting buttburn.

These days, gmax and ptodd don't even make his 'I hate your stupid face' shortlist!   Cheesy


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
Buy XMR with fiat
cypherdoc
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August 08, 2015, 12:33:00 AM
 #29967

Interesting piece on the 2013 fork.  https://freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/randomwalker/analyzing-the-2013-bitcoin-fork-centralized-decision-making-saved-the-day/?utm_content=buffer4f46c&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Some ungrateful people here need to show a little more respect for the work of the devs, especially LukeJr.

You of all people would idolize Luke jr

I have no reason to idolize or care about Luke Jr.

Just maybe consider that he had the right insight in this particular scenario and avoided us a great deal of the trouble we would have encountered had we went with Gavin's proposed "solution.

just finished reading that.  Luke did have the right intuition right off the bat.  kudos to him.

interesting comment below:

"23:31    Eleuthria    I absolutely agree, there is no way the 0.8 chain can continue in this situation. An involuntary hardfork doesn't gain legitimacy due to majority. "

edit:  he's referring to the fact that Gox was on 0.7
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August 08, 2015, 12:38:10 AM
 #29968

Interesting piece on the 2013 fork.  https://freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/randomwalker/analyzing-the-2013-bitcoin-fork-centralized-decision-making-saved-the-day/

Some ungrateful people here need to show a little more respect for the work of the devs, especially LukeJr.
Thanks for posting that link. It was a great example of how to manufacture panic and raise trivial resource allocation problems into widespread abuse opportunities.

It is still interesting that despite years passing nearly nobody in the Bitcoin development circles has even a passing knowledge of operational issues with database management systems.

The problem could have been trivially fixed by creating two line text file and restarting the Bitcoin daemon. The patch could be issued later after more careful analysis.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=152208.0

The crowd around Mircea Popescu follows the same path years later:

http://qntra.net/2015/08/new-per-block-transaction-highs-wedge-some-nodes-patch-available/



wtf is this from your 2nd link?  Cripplecoiner's Idol?:


Mircea Popescu says:   
August 1, 2015 at 5:09 pm

"Bitcoin Core" is the name a collection of USG moles and assorted scammers are giving to a pile of spaghetti that's unfit to run on Windows even.

It did enjoy some temporary attention in the early days of Bitcoin, chiefly through the happenstance that there not being any actual brains involved with the project.

Meanwhile it's lost any importance, either intellectual or practical. Miners run homebrew, thinking people run the Bitcoin Foundation client. That's all, really.
Reply   
Adrian-x
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August 08, 2015, 12:53:58 AM
 #29969

Interesting piece on the 2013 fork.  https://freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/randomwalker/analyzing-the-2013-bitcoin-fork-centralized-decision-making-saved-the-day/?utm_content=buffer4f46c&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Some ungrateful people here need to show a little more respect for the work of the devs, especially LukeJr.

You of all people would idolize Luke jr

I have no reason to idolize or care about Luke Jr.

Just maybe consider that he had the right insight in this particular scenario and avoided us a great deal of the trouble we would have encountered had we went with Gavin's proposed "solution.

just finished reading that.  Luke did have the right intuition right off the bat.  kudos to him.

interesting comment below:

"23:31    Eleuthria    I absolutely agree, there is no way the 0.8 chain can continue in this situation. An involuntary hardfork doesn't gain legitimacy due to majority. "

I was mining on BTCguild back then, I was rather disappeared at that decision at the time but none the less developers may have stressed but in my mind it highlight how simply it was to implement a hard fork so long as the intent was honorable, also it makes the idea that one fork become an altcoin seem daft. Power players like Eleuthria knew exactly where their interests lay and voluntary gave up the advantage he had and his customer had to the benefit of the merchants who provide services to the community at large.

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
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August 08, 2015, 06:42:48 AM
 #29970

The economy has been growing since 2010.
The economy has been growing since 2010.
Yes, it has been growing since 2010.

these guys used to be one of the biggest bulk carrier companies in the world.  not so much anymore:


OMG you sound like the conspiracy idiots at Zero Knowledge.  Don't you know [easy credit * car loans] = [economic growth]?

As long as credit (which is money) is growing, the economy is growing as well.
As soon as the total credit sum deflates, the economy deflates as well.
This is in short the 1x1 of capitalism, which is debitism.

Less credit (less money) = less economy
Moar credit = moar economy

https://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?width=630&height=378&range=Max&id=TCMDO

and as Cypher and iCE elude too that does not benefit the 99% but just those with assess to type of capital you need to fund multinational corporations and there acquisitions so yes the system is growing, no it's not healthy.

Capitalism (Debitism) has never been 'healthy'. It is a state bastard, cyclically growing rampant until it implodes. That's never been something for the 99%. That's the difference to an anarchistic life style of the paleolithic self-sufficient communities. The neolithic revolution is the invention of the state mafia (patriarchy), the birth of the tragedy. But collectivists (iCEmen, kRUGmen et al.) don't like anarchism.

Cypher's mentality represents the mentality of an idealist - while iCE et al. represent the mentality of the aristocrats (1%).
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August 08, 2015, 07:43:32 AM
 #29971

the sweet smell of deflation:


Don't worry, if you thought Bennie's helicopter drop was large you haven't seen anything yet. The FED will panic print to dig out of the debt depression hole they've created and the only things that will survive are real assets and real money. XOM owns real assets and will still exist on the other size of the FED's crash and still pay out cash flow from operations, in whatever unit is used as currency at the time.

In a society (which is the opposite of a self-sufficient, paleolitic, pre-patriarchal, anarchic community), assets are always valued in debt (=money).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt:_The_First_5000_Years

When debt (money) disappeared, the society disappeared as well. That's 'life' since the neolithic revolution, the invention of the state (organized violence).

Crypto/Bitcoin is the best enemy of the society.
@Fonestar, a brilliant commentator of the articles on Zero Knowledge: "The Bitcoiners are going to totally destroy your society and your laws"
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August 08, 2015, 10:34:37 AM
 #29972

In a society (which is the opposite of a self-sufficient, paleolitic, pre-patriarchal, anarchic community), assets are always valued in debt (=money).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt:_The_First_5000_Years

yeah, because no one ever used gold and silver as money, or any other commodity-money. Or if they did, they were paleolithic, like USA 1-2 centuries ago.
[/leftist drivel]
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August 08, 2015, 11:44:08 AM
 #29973

Interesting piece on the 2013 fork.  https://freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/randomwalker/analyzing-the-2013-bitcoin-fork-centralized-decision-making-saved-the-day/?utm_content=buffer4f46c&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Some ungrateful people here need to show a little more respect for the work of the devs, especially LukeJr.

You of all people would idolize Luke jr

You of all ungrateful people here need to show a little more respect for the work of the devs, especially LukeJr.

Uh no. No one needs to show more respect for LukeJr.

Who made him king?  Roll Eyes

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August 08, 2015, 02:11:46 PM
 #29974

In a society (which is the opposite of a self-sufficient, paleolitic, pre-patriarchal, anarchic community), assets are always valued in debt (=money).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt:_The_First_5000_Years

yeah, because no one ever used gold and silver as money, or any other commodity-money. Or if they did, they were paleolithic, like USA 1-2 centuries ago.
[/leftist drivel]

Metals are only derivatives of money (which is debt, from the very beginning). Without debt, there is no economy, but self-sufficiency (anarchy).
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August 08, 2015, 02:20:40 PM
 #29975

Gold collapsing. Bitcoin collapsing. It won't stop...
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August 08, 2015, 02:42:04 PM
 #29976

Gold collapsing. Bitcoin collapsing. It won't stop...
Not only gold and bitcoin, oil and copper collapsing too. Gold will crash under $1000 and bitcoin its hard for me to say but sorry bitcoin will crash under $250  Cry
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August 08, 2015, 03:33:43 PM
 #29977

In a society (which is the opposite of a self-sufficient, paleolitic, pre-patriarchal, anarchic community), assets are always valued in debt (=money).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt:_The_First_5000_Years

yeah, because no one ever used gold and silver as money, or any other commodity-money. Or if they did, they were paleolithic, like USA 1-2 centuries ago.
[/leftist drivel]

Metals are only derivatives of money (which is debt, from the very beginning). Without debt, there is no economy, but self-sufficiency (anarchy).

Evry movement have their own words...

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August 08, 2015, 03:43:13 PM
 #29978

Metals are only derivatives of money (which is debt, from the very beginning). Without debt, there is no economy, but self-sufficiency (anarchy).

I and J.P. Morgan disrespectfully disagree:
"Gold Is Money, Everything Else Is Credit"
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August 08, 2015, 04:08:57 PM
 #29979

Metals are only derivatives of money (which is debt, from the very beginning). Without and tuck operation there is no economy, but self-sufficiency (anarchy).

I and J.P. Morgan disrespectfully disagree:
"Gold Is Money, Everything Else Is Credit"

My Bitcoin journey began with reading Adam Smith Wealth of Nations, metals held value that was in a way derived from debt (a debt to society for providing resources to the ones mining the metatarsal.) Metals that lasted then became valuable for their utility it's utility and store of value function has been vastly distorted today and it all began with generosity and debt.

 I agree with Zarathustra, that free of this crazy story we all live, in a utilitarian world metals would not be valued as they are (I'm also not thinking we're going back to the stone age, but to a similar way of being leveraged of the technology and necessary intercooperation needed to leverage it's benefits that provides the utility that was once the domain of metals over 5000 years ago.


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August 08, 2015, 04:41:17 PM
 #29980

the sweet smell of deflation:


Don't worry, if you thought Bennie's helicopter drop was large you haven't seen anything yet. The FED will panic print to dig out of the debt depression hole they've created and the only things that will survive are real assets and real money. XOM owns real assets and will still exist on the other size of the FED's crash and still pay out cash flow from operations, in whatever unit is used as currency at the time.

In a society (which is the opposite of a self-sufficient, paleolitic, pre-patriarchal, anarchic community), assets are always valued in debt (=money).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt:_The_First_5000_Years

When debt (money) disappeared, the society disappeared as well. That's 'life' since the neolithic revolution, the invention of the state (organized violence).

Crypto/Bitcoin is the best enemy of the society.
@Fonestar, a brilliant commentator of the articles on Zero Knowledge: "The Bitcoiners are going to totally destroy your society and your laws"

yes, i've never actually gotten around to reading that altho i've read many summaries of it and tend to agree with it's theories.  this is the Wences version of the origin of money and makes perfect sense that ppl would quite naturally start off keeping track of debts owed first with memory and then via tracking mechanisms (ledgers).  gold is a dervative of this theory and is quite cumbersome and impractical and thus never quite got out of the blocks in a major way in a modern society.  not to mention all it's faults which allow it to be manipulated into oblivion despite it's relatively fixed supply (2% inflation).

Bitcoin is hard and fixed.  all this extrapolation from Matonis about inflating the supply as a result of raising the block limit is nonsense.  they are completely two different issues.  one involves imagination while the other is a no brainer. 
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