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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2022643 times)
Erdogan
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August 15, 2015, 11:35:31 PM
 #30621

XT nodes moving up quickly. 

despite a tighter chart filter measuring ONLY hard bigger block acceptance via 0.11A which knocked down the # measured nodes earlier this morning from 207 --> 80'ish, by this afternoon the # is back up to 206 currently.

btw: (I'm not sure if you understand the problem)
It is not about number of XT nodes. It is about how many block are mined by XT nodes. (what is the total hash power of XT nodes)

So you don't think the nodes have any purpose? Well a miner can do whatever he wants, but if the block he creates is not sanctioned by the nodes, his block reward is no good.

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August 15, 2015, 11:36:30 PM
 #30622

XT nodes moving up quickly. 

despite a tighter chart filter measuring ONLY hard bigger block acceptance via 0.11A which knocked down the # measured nodes earlier this morning from 207 --> 80'ish, by this afternoon the # is back up to 206 currently.

btw: (I'm not sure if you understand the problem)
It is not about number of XT nodes. It is about how many block are mined by XT nodes. (what is the total hash power of XT nodes)

it's an important metric of sentiment, as i've said all along.  not to mention of validation/relaying infrastructure.  miners will be watching it carefully to make their own decisions.
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August 15, 2015, 11:39:32 PM
 #30623

even Emin Sirer gets it:

https://twitter.com/el33th4xor/status/632687580753084416
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August 15, 2015, 11:40:21 PM
 #30624

[..]

In the remote possiblity XT becomes a matter of more importance than the hype, mirth, and scorn it generates at present, MPex and other 1MBer Elder Whales are prepared to use substantial (possibly exhaustive) portions of their extraordinarily massive war chests to repel 8MBer attacks.  To them, this is Holy War, with barbarian Gavinista hordes clamouring for a Free Shit Junta at the gates of their bespoke civilization.  They are more of a mood to impale heads atop spikes than reward with compromise Hearn's attacks on decentralization, Tor, and the consensus process.

[...]

So you suggest the Elder Whales will buy up bitcoins from their stash of xtcoins? Just like a central bank would do? Well that is going to be interesting. But there is a risk of losing it all, so I would not bet that it plays out that way.


What are you smoking, crack?  Elder Whales exercising their GavinCoin Short option is nothing like what central banks do.  Your confused, sketchy understanding of the situation continues to surprise and baffle me with its surreal assumptions and bizarre conclusions.   Cheesy

So how do they defend the cripplecoin. Pitchforks?


This is one way to defend Bitcoin from XTcoin: The GavinCoin Short.


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
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Erdogan
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August 15, 2015, 11:43:11 PM
 #30625

[..]

In the remote possiblity XT becomes a matter of more importance than the hype, mirth, and scorn it generates at present, MPex and other 1MBer Elder Whales are prepared to use substantial (possibly exhaustive) portions of their extraordinarily massive war chests to repel 8MBer attacks.  To them, this is Holy War, with barbarian Gavinista hordes clamouring for a Free Shit Junta at the gates of their bespoke civilization.  They are more of a mood to impale heads atop spikes than reward with compromise Hearn's attacks on decentralization, Tor, and the consensus process.

[...]

So you suggest the Elder Whales will buy up bitcoins from their stash of xtcoins? Just like a central bank would do? Well that is going to be interesting. But there is a risk of losing it all, so I would not bet that it plays out that way.


What are you smoking, crack?  Elder Whales exercising their GavinCoin Short option is nothing like what central banks do.  Your confused, sketchy understanding of the situation continues to surprise and baffle me with its surreal assumptions and bizarre conclusions.   Cheesy

So how do they defend the cripplecoin. Pitchforks?


This is one way to defend Bitcoin from XTcoin: The GavinCoin Short.

That's FTLDR.

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August 15, 2015, 11:43:17 PM
 #30626

XT nodes moving up quickly. 

despite a tighter chart filter measuring ONLY hard bigger block acceptance via 0.11A which knocked down the # measured nodes earlier this morning from 207 --> 80'ish, by this afternoon the # is back up to 206 currently.

btw: (I'm not sure if you understand the problem)
It is not about number of XT nodes. It is about how many block are mined by XT nodes. (what is the total hash power of XT nodes)

it's an important metric of sentiment, as i've said all along.  not to mention of validation/relaying infrastructure.  miners will be watching it carefully to make their own decisions.

75% of total hash power has a merit. What is the current % ?
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August 15, 2015, 11:46:04 PM
 #30627

XT nodes moving up quickly. 

despite a tighter chart filter measuring ONLY hard bigger block acceptance via 0.11A which knocked down the # measured nodes earlier this morning from 207 --> 80'ish, by this afternoon the # is back up to 206 currently.

You better figure out how to work manual coin control.

Because I have a feeling your hoard of LeBron coins may be inexplicably tainted enhanced by thousands of small GavinCoin "gifts."

 Grin


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
Buy XMR with fiat
vokain
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August 15, 2015, 11:49:06 PM
 #30628

[..]

In the remote possiblity XT becomes a matter of more importance than the hype, mirth, and scorn it generates at present, MPex and other 1MBer Elder Whales are prepared to use substantial (possibly exhaustive) portions of their extraordinarily massive war chests to repel 8MBer attacks.  To them, this is Holy War, with barbarian Gavinista hordes clamouring for a Free Shit Junta at the gates of their bespoke civilization.  They are more of a mood to impale heads atop spikes than reward with compromise Hearn's attacks on decentralization, Tor, and the consensus process.

[...]

So you suggest the Elder Whales will buy up bitcoins from their stash of xtcoins? Just like a central bank would do? Well that is going to be interesting. But there is a risk of losing it all, so I would not bet that it plays out that way.


What are you smoking, crack?  Elder Whales exercising their GavinCoin Short option is nothing like what central banks do.  Your confused, sketchy understanding of the situation continues to surprise and baffle me with its surreal assumptions and bizarre conclusions.   Cheesy

So how do they defend the cripplecoin. Pitchforks?


This is one way to defend Bitcoin from XTcoin: The GavinCoin Short.

That's FTLDR.


Are you smoking crack? It's like a few paragraphs.

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brg444
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August 15, 2015, 11:49:46 PM
 #30629

Big middle finger to iCEBLOW, brg444, tvbcof, and MOA:



You know I couldn't wait for this one heh  Grin

Market reaction to XT fork   Shocked



"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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August 15, 2015, 11:49:52 PM
 #30630

Well if you cripplecoin guys can scale bitcoin from 7 tps to 14 tps by a brilliant code optimization, we the gigaboys can use the exact same patch to scale from 7 Gtps to 14 Gtps. Life is good!

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August 15, 2015, 11:53:58 PM
 #30631

Well if you cripplecoin guys can scale bitcoin from 7 tps to 14 tps by a brilliant code optimization, we the gigaboys can use the exact same patch to scale from 7 Gtps to 14 Gtps. Life is good!


Allow me to introduce to you the law of diminishing returns.


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
Buy XMR with fiat
Erdogan
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August 15, 2015, 11:54:45 PM
 #30632

[..]

In the remote possiblity XT becomes a matter of more importance than the hype, mirth, and scorn it generates at present, MPex and other 1MBer Elder Whales are prepared to use substantial (possibly exhaustive) portions of their extraordinarily massive war chests to repel 8MBer attacks.  To them, this is Holy War, with barbarian Gavinista hordes clamouring for a Free Shit Junta at the gates of their bespoke civilization.  They are more of a mood to impale heads atop spikes than reward with compromise Hearn's attacks on decentralization, Tor, and the consensus process.

[...]

So you suggest the Elder Whales will buy up bitcoins from their stash of xtcoins? Just like a central bank would do? Well that is going to be interesting. But there is a risk of losing it all, so I would not bet that it plays out that way.


What are you smoking, crack?  Elder Whales exercising their GavinCoin Short option is nothing like what central banks do.  Your confused, sketchy understanding of the situation continues to surprise and baffle me with its surreal assumptions and bizarre conclusions.   Cheesy

So how do they defend the cripplecoin. Pitchforks?


This is one way to defend Bitcoin from XTcoin: The GavinCoin Short.

That's FTLDR.


Are you smoking crack? It's like a few paragraphs.

It's about 20 pagedowns on my screen. The word short is nowhere to be found. What do you take me for? It is an insult. Not that I care. Anyway it is UFTLDR. (Utterly fucking too long, didn't read).



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August 15, 2015, 11:55:18 PM
 #30633

The "populism of the 1MBers" is not your concern.

Your concern is the multi-year duration and multi-billion-dollar magnitude of Bitcoin's current economic majority.

Are you going to be the first brave fellow to defect from that imposing majority by accepting Gavin-tainted XTcoins?  No?  Then you are just a poser.

In the remote possiblity XT becomes a matter of more importance than the hype, mirth, and scorn it generates at present, MPex and other 1MBer Elder Whales are prepared to use substantial (possibly exhaustive) portions of their extraordinarily massive war chests to repel 8MBer attacks.  To them, this is Holy War, with barbarian Gavinista hordes clamouring for a Free Shit Junta at the gates of their bespoke civilization.  They are more of a mood to impale heads atop spikes than reward with compromise Hearn's attacks on decentralization, Tor, and the consensus process.

Are you still sure you want to risk your tiny stash playing Hard Fork Poker with such ultra-high-rollers?

Before you answer, please take into account that nodes by default prioritize tx moving older coins, and the Royalty of La Serenissima possesses, in great quantities, very old coins.

What will you do when the limit isn't raised within the next 12 months?  Continue to cry wolf?  Self harm? Or admit being wrong?   Wink

You know iCE, I also am concerned by the idea of a hostile fork, but reading your propaganda it just dawned on me that the only hostilities are coming from people like you. Everyone of any worth agrees we need to increase the block size, it's just there is a hostile minority who feel they are in power who are wanting to pick a fight.

Accommodating bigger blocks over a 12 month period given Bitcoin's exponential growth is not a hostile act, it's not rushing in a controversial change, it's a practical prudent approach.

You are part of the minority who are making it controversial and calling it hostile. I just don't see why you're opposed to letting Bitcoin grow free of manipulation and control.

I am only describing the battlefield and war gaming possible outcomes.  Those purely verbal speculative actions are not "hostilities."

This is what "a hostile minority who feel they are in power who are wanting to pick a fight" actually looks like:

https://medium.com/@octskyward/why-is-bitcoin-forking-d647312d22c1
thanks for the link, I hadn't read it yet. I though for a second that maybe it was aggressive and that maybe it was worth censoring but no, it's very practical and his opening sentence kills the debate and his authority right out the gate. (Not kill in a hostile way)

Anyway please spread the word, we need to orphan those cripplecoiners blocks as soon as possible, that's how the protocol works. If you feel I overlook something here excluding Gmax and Back's ego, please explain how and why you feel this is hostile?

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
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August 15, 2015, 11:56:07 PM
 #30634

Big middle finger to iCEBLOW, brg444, tvbcof, and MOA:



You know I couldn't wait for this one heh  Grin

Market reaction to XT fork   Shocked




Revenge is a dish best served "iCEBLOW" cold.   Grin

#REKT


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
Buy XMR with fiat
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August 16, 2015, 12:01:19 AM
 #30635

The real Satoshi has never signed anything.

Can more people corroborate this? I am not familiar with his public history too much.

That writing is not Satoshi it lack understand of how Bitcoin works. If anything Satoshi would just clarify how he though his imposed limit should be dealt with.

You seem so sure.

In any case, I think the messenger supported the block increase if and only if full consensus for such a fork was achieved meritoriously.

I'm confidant with the information I have, my mind is flexible on the subject. If there is information I don't have, the people supporting limiting the block size should present it.

This Satoshi email dose not reflect an understanding of the issue being debated.


Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
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August 16, 2015, 12:02:38 AM
 #30636

[..]

In the remote possiblity XT becomes a matter of more importance than the hype, mirth, and scorn it generates at present, MPex and other 1MBer Elder Whales are prepared to use substantial (possibly exhaustive) portions of their extraordinarily massive war chests to repel 8MBer attacks.  To them, this is Holy War, with barbarian Gavinista hordes clamouring for a Free Shit Junta at the gates of their bespoke civilization.  They are more of a mood to impale heads atop spikes than reward with compromise Hearn's attacks on decentralization, Tor, and the consensus process.

[...]

So you suggest the Elder Whales will buy up bitcoins from their stash of xtcoins? Just like a central bank would do? Well that is going to be interesting. But there is a risk of losing it all, so I would not bet that it plays out that way.


What are you smoking, crack?  Elder Whales exercising their GavinCoin Short option is nothing like what central banks do.  Your confused, sketchy understanding of the situation continues to surprise and baffle me with its surreal assumptions and bizarre conclusions.   Cheesy

So how do they defend the cripplecoin. Pitchforks?


This is one way to defend Bitcoin from XTcoin: The GavinCoin Short.

That's FTLDR.


Are you smoking crack? It's like a few paragraphs.

It's about 20 pagedowns on my screen. The word short is nowhere to be found. What do you take me for? It is an insult. Not that I care. Anyway it is UFTLDR. (Utterly fucking too long, didn't read).



lol only with a crack-addled attention span...
I'm on an iPhone in landscape mode and the post itself is 3-4 page downs.

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FULLY
ANONYMOUS

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/

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August 16, 2015, 12:05:14 AM
 #30637

XT nodes moving up quickly. 

despite a tighter chart filter measuring ONLY hard bigger block acceptance via 0.11A which knocked down the # measured nodes earlier this morning from 207 --> 80'ish, by this afternoon the # is back up to 206 currently.

206, that's winning. The cripplecoiners had better declare unconditional surrender.


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August 16, 2015, 12:07:05 AM
 #30638

The real Satoshi has never signed anything.

Can more people corroborate this? I am not familiar with his public history too much.

That writing is not Satoshi it lack understand of how Bitcoin works. If anything Satoshi would just clarify how he though his imposed limit should be dealt with.

You seem so sure.

In any case, I think the messenger supported the block increase if and only if full consensus for such a fork was achieved meritoriously.

I'm confidant with the information I have, my mine is flexible on the subject. If there is information I don't have the people supporting limiting the block size should present it.

This Satoshi email dose not reflect an understanding of the issue being debated.


I'm happy to hear.

Well, to me, personally, the issue the past recent while is not concerning the block size fork but rather the manner of implementing such a fork.

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August 16, 2015, 12:08:09 AM
 #30639

Ken Friece bitcoin-dev:

What are you so afraid of, Eric? If Mike's fork is successful, consensus is reached around larger blocks. If it is rejected, the status quo will remain for now. Network consensus, NOT CORE DEVELOPER CONSENSUS, is the only thing that matters, and those that go against network consensus will be severely punished with complete loss of income.

I'm not sure who appointed the core devs some sort of Bitcoin Gods that can hold up any change that they happen to disagree with. It seems like the core devs are scared to death that the bitcoin network may change without their blessing, so they go on and on about how terrible hard forks are. Hard forks are the only way to keep core devs in check.

Despite significant past technical bitcoin achievements, two of the most vocal opponents to a reasonable blocksize increase work for a company (Blockstream) that stands to profit directly from artificially limiting the blocksize. The whole situation reeks. Because of such a blatant conflict of interest, the ethical thing to do would be for them to either resign from Blockstream or immediately withdraw themselves from the blocksize debate. This is the type of stuff that I hoped would end with Bitcoin, but alas, I guess human nature never changes.

Personally, I think miners should give Bitcoin XT a serious look. Miners need to realize that they are in direct competition with the lightning network and sidechains for fees. Miners, ask yourselves if you think you'll earn more fees with 1 MB blocks and more off-chain transactions or with 8 MB blocks and more on-chain transactions...

The longer this debate drags on, the more I agree with BIP 100 and Jeff Garzik because the core devs are already being influenced by outside forces and should not have complete control of the blocksize. It's also interesting to note that most of the mining hashpower is already voting for 8MB blocks BIP100 style.



1. LN - it is not a protocol change. It was (and ever will be) possible to use LN.  It is win-win  b/c
 a) it saves network resources
 b) it brings more anonymity

2. SC - it does not move transaction fees to Blockstream. Same miners who lose fees from MC can earn this fees from SC. It is again win-win strategy
 a) miners can earn fees by mining more chains
 b) those who are not interested in mining bloat-chain are not forced to keep all the world transactions forever.

That's definitely an English first language response. ;-)

Your understanding is only true if you can prevent the bugs that exist in Bitcoin from being fixed. If a fork like XT is possible then you loose the ability to lock the code needed to make LN and SC possible. The idea of the underlying protocol being subject to change is a threat to your dear project.

Shame on you holding us hostage.

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
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August 16, 2015, 12:08:19 AM
 #30640

It feels to me like a major shift occurred today.  It was caused in part by Gavin and Mike completing the patch to support larger block sizes, but I think it was actually caused more so by a foolish move made on the battlefield-that-was-reddit today.  In an act of desperation, the mods at /r/bitcoin threw their swords.  

What do I mean by "throwing one's sword?"  I'll have to explain it with a story about my childhood…

...The town I grew up in (about an hour outside of Vancouver) seemed perfectly normal to me as a kid, but when I look back now, it was actually pretty rough.  It was home to hundreds of Hell's Angels and it served as a sort of distribution center in the drug trade.  

Anyways, there were lots of fights between groups of boys when I was growing up.  I was never really a part of it, but I was fascinated and paid attention to the dynamics of the process.  One strange behaviour I witnessed was that the last act of the losing faction of boys was always to throw their weapons.  It was such a stupid thing to do, because the baseball bat or hockey stick would rarely hit the intended target, and in the few times that it did, it would be travelling at such a reduced velocity that the impact imparted to the victim was superficial at best.  

And then the weaponless boys would get their butts kicked.

It turns out that this is a sort of a natural human reaction to severe stress.  As a last resort, we throw whatever we have left and hope for the best.  In the movies, it always works; in real life, the opposite is true.  

Of course the weapon of a mod is censorship.  Today was the day that the mods at /r/bitcoin threw their weapons.  

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