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News: BIP91 seems stable: there's probably only slightly increased risk of confirmations disappearing. You should still prepare for Aug 1.
 
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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1936279 times)
Erdogan
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August 15, 2015, 11:27:14 PM
 #30621

[..]

In the remote possiblity XT becomes a matter of more importance than the hype, mirth, and scorn it generates at present, MPex and other 1MBer Elder Whales are prepared to use substantial (possibly exhaustive) portions of their extraordinarily massive war chests to repel 8MBer attacks.  To them, this is Holy War, with barbarian Gavinista hordes clamouring for a Free Shit Junta at the gates of their bespoke civilization.  They are more of a mood to impale heads atop spikes than reward with compromise Hearn's attacks on decentralization, Tor, and the consensus process.

[...]

So you suggest the Elder Whales will buy up bitcoins from their stash of xtcoins? Just like a central bank would do? Well that is going to be interesting. But there is a risk of losing it all, so I would not bet that it plays out that way.


What are you smoking, crack?  Elder Whales exercising their GavinCoin Short option is nothing like what central banks do.  Your confused, sketchy understanding of the situation continues to surprise and baffle me with its surreal assumptions and bizarre conclusions.   Cheesy

So how do they defend the cripplecoin. Pitchforks?
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August 15, 2015, 11:27:19 PM
 #30622

Ken Friece bitcoin-dev:

What are you so afraid of, Eric? If Mike's fork is successful, consensus is reached around larger blocks. If it is rejected, the status quo will remain for now. Network consensus, NOT CORE DEVELOPER CONSENSUS, is the only thing that matters, and those that go against network consensus will be severely punished with complete loss of income.

I'm not sure who appointed the core devs some sort of Bitcoin Gods that can hold up any change that they happen to disagree with. It seems like the core devs are scared to death that the bitcoin network may change without their blessing, so they go on and on about how terrible hard forks are. Hard forks are the only way to keep core devs in check.

Despite significant past technical bitcoin achievements, two of the most vocal opponents to a reasonable blocksize increase work for a company (Blockstream) that stands to profit directly from artificially limiting the blocksize. The whole situation reeks. Because of such a blatant conflict of interest, the ethical thing to do would be for them to either resign from Blockstream or immediately withdraw themselves from the blocksize debate. This is the type of stuff that I hoped would end with Bitcoin, but alas, I guess human nature never changes.

Personally, I think miners should give Bitcoin XT a serious look. Miners need to realize that they are in direct competition with the lightning network and sidechains for fees. Miners, ask yourselves if you think you'll earn more fees with 1 MB blocks and more off-chain transactions or with 8 MB blocks and more on-chain transactions...

The longer this debate drags on, the more I agree with BIP 100 and Jeff Garzik because the core devs are already being influenced by outside forces and should not have complete control of the blocksize. It's also interesting to note that most of the mining hashpower is already voting for 8MB blocks BIP100 style.



1. LN - it is not a protocol change. It was (and ever will be) possible to use LN.  It is win-win  b/c
 a) it saves network resources
 b) it brings more anonymity

2. SC - it does not move transaction fees to Blockstream. Same miners who lose fees from MC can earn this fees from SC. It is again win-win strategy
 a) miners can earn fees by mining more chains
 b) those who are not interested in mining bloat-chain are not forced to keep all the world transactions forever.
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August 15, 2015, 11:28:03 PM
 #30623

XT nodes moving up quickly. 

despite a tighter chart filter measuring ONLY hard bigger block acceptance via 0.11A which knocked down the # measured nodes earlier this morning from 207 --> 80'ish, by this afternoon the # is back up to 206 currently.
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August 15, 2015, 11:29:28 PM
 #30624

Edit: "He used satoshin@gmx.com (from original Bitcoin whitepaper) and satoshi@vistomail.com (from email logs). gmx.com is a free email service that may or may not have had location based restrictions on registration at the time. vistomail.com is an email service from anonymousspeech, the domain registrar proxy he used to register bitcoin.org"
http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/5319/what-is-the-email-of-satoshi-nakamoto

Ah, I wasn't aware that he ever used anything other than gmx.

Of course one email being hacked might lead to the other one being hacked too (by similar credentials being used, a recovery process, etc.)

But as you say maybe he doesn't care if people believe the message is legit.


If it's not a breach of privacy, we could possibly see if the email server operator has logged any such recovery requests re: the second scenario.

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August 15, 2015, 11:31:39 PM
 #30625

This is very likely fake but imagine the butthurt on reddit if Satoshi came out against block increase  Cheesy Cheesy
No, I and most of the redditers paying attention are not looking to win an ego battle we judge on merit. Satoshi would need to revise his original design intent and illustrate how limiting the block size with benefits either vision.

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
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August 15, 2015, 11:32:40 PM
 #30626

XT nodes moving up quickly. 

despite a tighter chart filter measuring ONLY hard bigger block acceptance via 0.11A which knocked down the # measured nodes earlier this morning from 207 --> 80'ish, by this afternoon the # is back up to 206 currently.

btw: (I'm not sure if you understand the problem)
It is not about number of XT nodes. It is about how many block are mined by XT nodes. (what is the total hash power of XT nodes)
Erdogan
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August 15, 2015, 11:35:31 PM
 #30627

XT nodes moving up quickly. 

despite a tighter chart filter measuring ONLY hard bigger block acceptance via 0.11A which knocked down the # measured nodes earlier this morning from 207 --> 80'ish, by this afternoon the # is back up to 206 currently.

btw: (I'm not sure if you understand the problem)
It is not about number of XT nodes. It is about how many block are mined by XT nodes. (what is the total hash power of XT nodes)

So you don't think the nodes have any purpose? Well a miner can do whatever he wants, but if the block he creates is not sanctioned by the nodes, his block reward is no good.
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August 15, 2015, 11:36:30 PM
 #30628

XT nodes moving up quickly. 

despite a tighter chart filter measuring ONLY hard bigger block acceptance via 0.11A which knocked down the # measured nodes earlier this morning from 207 --> 80'ish, by this afternoon the # is back up to 206 currently.

btw: (I'm not sure if you understand the problem)
It is not about number of XT nodes. It is about how many block are mined by XT nodes. (what is the total hash power of XT nodes)

it's an important metric of sentiment, as i've said all along.  not to mention of validation/relaying infrastructure.  miners will be watching it carefully to make their own decisions.
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August 15, 2015, 11:39:32 PM
 #30629

even Emin Sirer gets it:

https://twitter.com/el33th4xor/status/632687580753084416
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August 15, 2015, 11:40:21 PM
 #30630

[..]

In the remote possiblity XT becomes a matter of more importance than the hype, mirth, and scorn it generates at present, MPex and other 1MBer Elder Whales are prepared to use substantial (possibly exhaustive) portions of their extraordinarily massive war chests to repel 8MBer attacks.  To them, this is Holy War, with barbarian Gavinista hordes clamouring for a Free Shit Junta at the gates of their bespoke civilization.  They are more of a mood to impale heads atop spikes than reward with compromise Hearn's attacks on decentralization, Tor, and the consensus process.

[...]

So you suggest the Elder Whales will buy up bitcoins from their stash of xtcoins? Just like a central bank would do? Well that is going to be interesting. But there is a risk of losing it all, so I would not bet that it plays out that way.


What are you smoking, crack?  Elder Whales exercising their GavinCoin Short option is nothing like what central banks do.  Your confused, sketchy understanding of the situation continues to surprise and baffle me with its surreal assumptions and bizarre conclusions.   Cheesy

So how do they defend the cripplecoin. Pitchforks?


This is one way to defend Bitcoin from XTcoin: The GavinCoin Short.

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Core GUI - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }
MoneroForCash.com  |  Buy and sell XMR near you  |  Easymonero.com  |  Bitsquare.io - Decentralized XMR Exchange  |  Buy XMR with fiat
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004
Erdogan
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August 15, 2015, 11:43:11 PM
 #30631

[..]

In the remote possiblity XT becomes a matter of more importance than the hype, mirth, and scorn it generates at present, MPex and other 1MBer Elder Whales are prepared to use substantial (possibly exhaustive) portions of their extraordinarily massive war chests to repel 8MBer attacks.  To them, this is Holy War, with barbarian Gavinista hordes clamouring for a Free Shit Junta at the gates of their bespoke civilization.  They are more of a mood to impale heads atop spikes than reward with compromise Hearn's attacks on decentralization, Tor, and the consensus process.

[...]

So you suggest the Elder Whales will buy up bitcoins from their stash of xtcoins? Just like a central bank would do? Well that is going to be interesting. But there is a risk of losing it all, so I would not bet that it plays out that way.


What are you smoking, crack?  Elder Whales exercising their GavinCoin Short option is nothing like what central banks do.  Your confused, sketchy understanding of the situation continues to surprise and baffle me with its surreal assumptions and bizarre conclusions.   Cheesy

So how do they defend the cripplecoin. Pitchforks?


This is one way to defend Bitcoin from XTcoin: The GavinCoin Short.

That's FTLDR.
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August 15, 2015, 11:43:17 PM
 #30632

XT nodes moving up quickly. 

despite a tighter chart filter measuring ONLY hard bigger block acceptance via 0.11A which knocked down the # measured nodes earlier this morning from 207 --> 80'ish, by this afternoon the # is back up to 206 currently.

btw: (I'm not sure if you understand the problem)
It is not about number of XT nodes. It is about how many block are mined by XT nodes. (what is the total hash power of XT nodes)

it's an important metric of sentiment, as i've said all along.  not to mention of validation/relaying infrastructure.  miners will be watching it carefully to make their own decisions.

75% of total hash power has a merit. What is the current % ?
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August 15, 2015, 11:46:04 PM
 #30633

XT nodes moving up quickly. 

despite a tighter chart filter measuring ONLY hard bigger block acceptance via 0.11A which knocked down the # measured nodes earlier this morning from 207 --> 80'ish, by this afternoon the # is back up to 206 currently.

You better figure out how to work manual coin control.

Because I have a feeling your hoard of LeBron coins may be inexplicably tainted enhanced by thousands of small GavinCoin "gifts."

 Grin

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Core GUI - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }
MoneroForCash.com  |  Buy and sell XMR near you  |  Easymonero.com  |  Bitsquare.io - Decentralized XMR Exchange  |  Buy XMR with fiat
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004
vokain
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August 15, 2015, 11:49:06 PM
 #30634

[..]

In the remote possiblity XT becomes a matter of more importance than the hype, mirth, and scorn it generates at present, MPex and other 1MBer Elder Whales are prepared to use substantial (possibly exhaustive) portions of their extraordinarily massive war chests to repel 8MBer attacks.  To them, this is Holy War, with barbarian Gavinista hordes clamouring for a Free Shit Junta at the gates of their bespoke civilization.  They are more of a mood to impale heads atop spikes than reward with compromise Hearn's attacks on decentralization, Tor, and the consensus process.

[...]

So you suggest the Elder Whales will buy up bitcoins from their stash of xtcoins? Just like a central bank would do? Well that is going to be interesting. But there is a risk of losing it all, so I would not bet that it plays out that way.


What are you smoking, crack?  Elder Whales exercising their GavinCoin Short option is nothing like what central banks do.  Your confused, sketchy understanding of the situation continues to surprise and baffle me with its surreal assumptions and bizarre conclusions.   Cheesy

So how do they defend the cripplecoin. Pitchforks?


This is one way to defend Bitcoin from XTcoin: The GavinCoin Short.

That's FTLDR.


Are you smoking crack? It's like a few paragraphs.

...مكتوب
Escape the plutocrats’ zanpakutō, Flower in the Mirror, Moon on the Water: brave “the ascent which is rough and steep” (Plato).
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August 15, 2015, 11:49:46 PM
 #30635

Big middle finger to iCEBLOW, brg444, tvbcof, and MOA:



You know I couldn't wait for this one heh  Grin

Market reaction to XT fork   Shocked



"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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August 15, 2015, 11:49:52 PM
 #30636

Well if you cripplecoin guys can scale bitcoin from 7 tps to 14 tps by a brilliant code optimization, we the gigaboys can use the exact same patch to scale from 7 Gtps to 14 Gtps. Life is good!
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August 15, 2015, 11:53:58 PM
 #30637

Well if you cripplecoin guys can scale bitcoin from 7 tps to 14 tps by a brilliant code optimization, we the gigaboys can use the exact same patch to scale from 7 Gtps to 14 Gtps. Life is good!


Allow me to introduce to you the law of diminishing returns.

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Core GUI - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }
MoneroForCash.com  |  Buy and sell XMR near you  |  Easymonero.com  |  Bitsquare.io - Decentralized XMR Exchange  |  Buy XMR with fiat
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004
Erdogan
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August 15, 2015, 11:54:45 PM
 #30638

[..]

In the remote possiblity XT becomes a matter of more importance than the hype, mirth, and scorn it generates at present, MPex and other 1MBer Elder Whales are prepared to use substantial (possibly exhaustive) portions of their extraordinarily massive war chests to repel 8MBer attacks.  To them, this is Holy War, with barbarian Gavinista hordes clamouring for a Free Shit Junta at the gates of their bespoke civilization.  They are more of a mood to impale heads atop spikes than reward with compromise Hearn's attacks on decentralization, Tor, and the consensus process.

[...]

So you suggest the Elder Whales will buy up bitcoins from their stash of xtcoins? Just like a central bank would do? Well that is going to be interesting. But there is a risk of losing it all, so I would not bet that it plays out that way.


What are you smoking, crack?  Elder Whales exercising their GavinCoin Short option is nothing like what central banks do.  Your confused, sketchy understanding of the situation continues to surprise and baffle me with its surreal assumptions and bizarre conclusions.   Cheesy

So how do they defend the cripplecoin. Pitchforks?


This is one way to defend Bitcoin from XTcoin: The GavinCoin Short.

That's FTLDR.


Are you smoking crack? It's like a few paragraphs.

It's about 20 pagedowns on my screen. The word short is nowhere to be found. What do you take me for? It is an insult. Not that I care. Anyway it is UFTLDR. (Utterly fucking too long, didn't read).


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August 15, 2015, 11:55:18 PM
 #30639

The "populism of the 1MBers" is not your concern.

Your concern is the multi-year duration and multi-billion-dollar magnitude of Bitcoin's current economic majority.

Are you going to be the first brave fellow to defect from that imposing majority by accepting Gavin-tainted XTcoins?  No?  Then you are just a poser.

In the remote possiblity XT becomes a matter of more importance than the hype, mirth, and scorn it generates at present, MPex and other 1MBer Elder Whales are prepared to use substantial (possibly exhaustive) portions of their extraordinarily massive war chests to repel 8MBer attacks.  To them, this is Holy War, with barbarian Gavinista hordes clamouring for a Free Shit Junta at the gates of their bespoke civilization.  They are more of a mood to impale heads atop spikes than reward with compromise Hearn's attacks on decentralization, Tor, and the consensus process.

Are you still sure you want to risk your tiny stash playing Hard Fork Poker with such ultra-high-rollers?

Before you answer, please take into account that nodes by default prioritize tx moving older coins, and the Royalty of La Serenissima possesses, in great quantities, very old coins.

What will you do when the limit isn't raised within the next 12 months?  Continue to cry wolf?  Self harm? Or admit being wrong?   Wink

You know iCE, I also am concerned by the idea of a hostile fork, but reading your propaganda it just dawned on me that the only hostilities are coming from people like you. Everyone of any worth agrees we need to increase the block size, it's just there is a hostile minority who feel they are in power who are wanting to pick a fight.

Accommodating bigger blocks over a 12 month period given Bitcoin's exponential growth is not a hostile act, it's not rushing in a controversial change, it's a practical prudent approach.

You are part of the minority who are making it controversial and calling it hostile. I just don't see why you're opposed to letting Bitcoin grow free of manipulation and control.

I am only describing the battlefield and war gaming possible outcomes.  Those purely verbal speculative actions are not "hostilities."

This is what "a hostile minority who feel they are in power who are wanting to pick a fight" actually looks like:

https://medium.com/@octskyward/why-is-bitcoin-forking-d647312d22c1
thanks for the link, I hadn't read it yet. I though for a second that maybe it was aggressive and that maybe it was worth censoring but no, it's very practical and his opening sentence kills the debate and his authority right out the gate. (Not kill in a hostile way)

Anyway please spread the word, we need to orphan those cripplecoiners blocks as soon as possible, that's how the protocol works. If you feel I overlook something here excluding Gmax and Back's ego, please explain how and why you feel this is hostile?

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
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August 15, 2015, 11:56:07 PM
 #30640

Big middle finger to iCEBLOW, brg444, tvbcof, and MOA:



You know I couldn't wait for this one heh  Grin

Market reaction to XT fork   Shocked




Revenge is a dish best served "iCEBLOW" cold.   Grin

#REKT

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Core GUI - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }
MoneroForCash.com  |  Buy and sell XMR near you  |  Easymonero.com  |  Bitsquare.io - Decentralized XMR Exchange  |  Buy XMR with fiat
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004
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