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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1804283 times)
iCEBREAKER
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August 15, 2015, 10:51:01 PM
 #30641

[..]

In the remote possiblity XT becomes a matter of more importance than the hype, mirth, and scorn it generates at present, MPex and other 1MBer Elder Whales are prepared to use substantial (possibly exhaustive) portions of their extraordinarily massive war chests to repel 8MBer attacks.  To them, this is Holy War, with barbarian Gavinista hordes clamouring for a Free Shit Junta at the gates of their bespoke civilization.  They are more of a mood to impale heads atop spikes than reward with compromise Hearn's attacks on decentralization, Tor, and the consensus process.

[...]

So you suggest the Elder Whales will buy up bitcoins from their stash of xtcoins? Just like a central bank would do? Well that is going to be interesting. But there is a risk of losing it all, so I would not bet that it plays out that way.


What are you smoking, crack?  Elder Whales exercising their GavinCoin Short option is nothing like what central banks do.  Your confused, sketchy understanding of the situation continues to surprise and baffle me with its surreal assumptions and bizarre conclusions.   Cheesy

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Wallets - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }


Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
https://twitter.com/Tone_LLT/status/717822927908024320


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

"Hard forks cannot be co
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August 15, 2015, 11:14:25 PM
 #30642

The real Satoshi has never signed anything.

Can more people corroborate this? I am not familiar with his public history too much.

That writing is not Satoshi it lack understand of how Bitcoin works. If anything Satoshi would just clarify how he though his imposed limit should be dealt with.

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
tvbcof
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August 15, 2015, 11:16:45 PM
 #30643

http://www.mail-archive.com/cryptography@metzdowd.com/msg09968.html

Worth a read for all you SPV nodes & pruning fans out there.

Most of the 'fans' will read the warnings and say "Ya, that's the idea."

Another fair fraction will say "Whatever.  Where's my paycheck for shilling?"

Yet a third group will say "Whatever.  At least my tax evasion charges have been dropped in exchange for my shilling."


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August 15, 2015, 11:20:05 PM
 #30644

The real Satoshi has never signed anything.

Can more people corroborate this? I am not familiar with his public history too much.

That writing is not Satoshi it lack understand of how Bitcoin works. If anything Satoshi would just clarify how he though his imposed limit should be dealt with.

You seem so sure.

In any case, I think the messenger supported the block increase if and only if full consensus for such a fork was achieved meritoriously.

...مكتوب
Escape the plutocrats’ zanpakutō, Flower in the Mirror, Moon on the Water: brave “the ascent which is rough and steep” (Plato).
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August 15, 2015, 11:27:10 PM
 #30645


Bitcoin private keys can be used to sign a message. I believe there are some which are known to have been held by the original SN (though one can never rule out that they were later compromised), but I'm not sure.


They can, but if he's never before, surely he doesn't value proving himself to anyone aside from through his words and actions, so why would the behavior suddenly change so drastically?

Let's see. 4+ year absence. Writing from a different email (old one hacked), environment vastly different than when he left, nature of the message that is purportedly being sent, etc.

But you're right in a sense. Since appeal to authority is supposed to not exist in Bitcoin and "his" new message contains no constructive input we should just ignore it.



I'd agree with this analysis, your thoughtful consideration is why I enjoy reading your posts.

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
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August 15, 2015, 11:27:14 PM
 #30646

[..]

In the remote possiblity XT becomes a matter of more importance than the hype, mirth, and scorn it generates at present, MPex and other 1MBer Elder Whales are prepared to use substantial (possibly exhaustive) portions of their extraordinarily massive war chests to repel 8MBer attacks.  To them, this is Holy War, with barbarian Gavinista hordes clamouring for a Free Shit Junta at the gates of their bespoke civilization.  They are more of a mood to impale heads atop spikes than reward with compromise Hearn's attacks on decentralization, Tor, and the consensus process.

[...]

So you suggest the Elder Whales will buy up bitcoins from their stash of xtcoins? Just like a central bank would do? Well that is going to be interesting. But there is a risk of losing it all, so I would not bet that it plays out that way.


What are you smoking, crack?  Elder Whales exercising their GavinCoin Short option is nothing like what central banks do.  Your confused, sketchy understanding of the situation continues to surprise and baffle me with its surreal assumptions and bizarre conclusions.   Cheesy

So how do they defend the cripplecoin. Pitchforks?
Odalv
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August 15, 2015, 11:27:19 PM
 #30647

Ken Friece bitcoin-dev:

What are you so afraid of, Eric? If Mike's fork is successful, consensus is reached around larger blocks. If it is rejected, the status quo will remain for now. Network consensus, NOT CORE DEVELOPER CONSENSUS, is the only thing that matters, and those that go against network consensus will be severely punished with complete loss of income.

I'm not sure who appointed the core devs some sort of Bitcoin Gods that can hold up any change that they happen to disagree with. It seems like the core devs are scared to death that the bitcoin network may change without their blessing, so they go on and on about how terrible hard forks are. Hard forks are the only way to keep core devs in check.

Despite significant past technical bitcoin achievements, two of the most vocal opponents to a reasonable blocksize increase work for a company (Blockstream) that stands to profit directly from artificially limiting the blocksize. The whole situation reeks. Because of such a blatant conflict of interest, the ethical thing to do would be for them to either resign from Blockstream or immediately withdraw themselves from the blocksize debate. This is the type of stuff that I hoped would end with Bitcoin, but alas, I guess human nature never changes.

Personally, I think miners should give Bitcoin XT a serious look. Miners need to realize that they are in direct competition with the lightning network and sidechains for fees. Miners, ask yourselves if you think you'll earn more fees with 1 MB blocks and more off-chain transactions or with 8 MB blocks and more on-chain transactions...

The longer this debate drags on, the more I agree with BIP 100 and Jeff Garzik because the core devs are already being influenced by outside forces and should not have complete control of the blocksize. It's also interesting to note that most of the mining hashpower is already voting for 8MB blocks BIP100 style.



1. LN - it is not a protocol change. It was (and ever will be) possible to use LN.  It is win-win  b/c
 a) it saves network resources
 b) it brings more anonymity

2. SC - it does not move transaction fees to Blockstream. Same miners who lose fees from MC can earn this fees from SC. It is again win-win strategy
 a) miners can earn fees by mining more chains
 b) those who are not interested in mining bloat-chain are not forced to keep all the world transactions forever.
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August 15, 2015, 11:28:03 PM
 #30648

XT nodes moving up quickly. 

despite a tighter chart filter measuring ONLY hard bigger block acceptance via 0.11A which knocked down the # measured nodes earlier this morning from 207 --> 80'ish, by this afternoon the # is back up to 206 currently.
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August 15, 2015, 11:29:28 PM
 #30649

Edit: "He used satoshin@gmx.com (from original Bitcoin whitepaper) and satoshi@vistomail.com (from email logs). gmx.com is a free email service that may or may not have had location based restrictions on registration at the time. vistomail.com is an email service from anonymousspeech, the domain registrar proxy he used to register bitcoin.org"
http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/5319/what-is-the-email-of-satoshi-nakamoto

Ah, I wasn't aware that he ever used anything other than gmx.

Of course one email being hacked might lead to the other one being hacked too (by similar credentials being used, a recovery process, etc.)

But as you say maybe he doesn't care if people believe the message is legit.


If it's not a breach of privacy, we could possibly see if the email server operator has logged any such recovery requests re: the second scenario.

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Escape the plutocrats’ zanpakutō, Flower in the Mirror, Moon on the Water: brave “the ascent which is rough and steep” (Plato).
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August 15, 2015, 11:31:39 PM
 #30650

This is very likely fake but imagine the butthurt on reddit if Satoshi came out against block increase  Cheesy Cheesy
No, I and most of the redditers paying attention are not looking to win an ego battle we judge on merit. Satoshi would need to revise his original design intent and illustrate how limiting the block size with benefits either vision.

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Odalv
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August 15, 2015, 11:32:40 PM
 #30651

XT nodes moving up quickly. 

despite a tighter chart filter measuring ONLY hard bigger block acceptance via 0.11A which knocked down the # measured nodes earlier this morning from 207 --> 80'ish, by this afternoon the # is back up to 206 currently.

btw: (I'm not sure if you understand the problem)
It is not about number of XT nodes. It is about how many block are mined by XT nodes. (what is the total hash power of XT nodes)
Erdogan
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August 15, 2015, 11:35:31 PM
 #30652

XT nodes moving up quickly. 

despite a tighter chart filter measuring ONLY hard bigger block acceptance via 0.11A which knocked down the # measured nodes earlier this morning from 207 --> 80'ish, by this afternoon the # is back up to 206 currently.

btw: (I'm not sure if you understand the problem)
It is not about number of XT nodes. It is about how many block are mined by XT nodes. (what is the total hash power of XT nodes)

So you don't think the nodes have any purpose? Well a miner can do whatever he wants, but if the block he creates is not sanctioned by the nodes, his block reward is no good.
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August 15, 2015, 11:36:30 PM
 #30653

XT nodes moving up quickly. 

despite a tighter chart filter measuring ONLY hard bigger block acceptance via 0.11A which knocked down the # measured nodes earlier this morning from 207 --> 80'ish, by this afternoon the # is back up to 206 currently.

btw: (I'm not sure if you understand the problem)
It is not about number of XT nodes. It is about how many block are mined by XT nodes. (what is the total hash power of XT nodes)

it's an important metric of sentiment, as i've said all along.  not to mention of validation/relaying infrastructure.  miners will be watching it carefully to make their own decisions.
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August 15, 2015, 11:39:32 PM
 #30654

even Emin Sirer gets it:

https://twitter.com/el33th4xor/status/632687580753084416
iCEBREAKER
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August 15, 2015, 11:40:21 PM
 #30655

[..]

In the remote possiblity XT becomes a matter of more importance than the hype, mirth, and scorn it generates at present, MPex and other 1MBer Elder Whales are prepared to use substantial (possibly exhaustive) portions of their extraordinarily massive war chests to repel 8MBer attacks.  To them, this is Holy War, with barbarian Gavinista hordes clamouring for a Free Shit Junta at the gates of their bespoke civilization.  They are more of a mood to impale heads atop spikes than reward with compromise Hearn's attacks on decentralization, Tor, and the consensus process.

[...]

So you suggest the Elder Whales will buy up bitcoins from their stash of xtcoins? Just like a central bank would do? Well that is going to be interesting. But there is a risk of losing it all, so I would not bet that it plays out that way.


What are you smoking, crack?  Elder Whales exercising their GavinCoin Short option is nothing like what central banks do.  Your confused, sketchy understanding of the situation continues to surprise and baffle me with its surreal assumptions and bizarre conclusions.   Cheesy

So how do they defend the cripplecoin. Pitchforks?


This is one way to defend Bitcoin from XTcoin: The GavinCoin Short.

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Wallets - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }


Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
https://twitter.com/Tone_LLT/status/717822927908024320


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

"Hard forks cannot be co
Erdogan
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August 15, 2015, 11:43:11 PM
 #30656

[..]

In the remote possiblity XT becomes a matter of more importance than the hype, mirth, and scorn it generates at present, MPex and other 1MBer Elder Whales are prepared to use substantial (possibly exhaustive) portions of their extraordinarily massive war chests to repel 8MBer attacks.  To them, this is Holy War, with barbarian Gavinista hordes clamouring for a Free Shit Junta at the gates of their bespoke civilization.  They are more of a mood to impale heads atop spikes than reward with compromise Hearn's attacks on decentralization, Tor, and the consensus process.

[...]

So you suggest the Elder Whales will buy up bitcoins from their stash of xtcoins? Just like a central bank would do? Well that is going to be interesting. But there is a risk of losing it all, so I would not bet that it plays out that way.


What are you smoking, crack?  Elder Whales exercising their GavinCoin Short option is nothing like what central banks do.  Your confused, sketchy understanding of the situation continues to surprise and baffle me with its surreal assumptions and bizarre conclusions.   Cheesy

So how do they defend the cripplecoin. Pitchforks?


This is one way to defend Bitcoin from XTcoin: The GavinCoin Short.

That's FTLDR.
Odalv
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August 15, 2015, 11:43:17 PM
 #30657

XT nodes moving up quickly. 

despite a tighter chart filter measuring ONLY hard bigger block acceptance via 0.11A which knocked down the # measured nodes earlier this morning from 207 --> 80'ish, by this afternoon the # is back up to 206 currently.

btw: (I'm not sure if you understand the problem)
It is not about number of XT nodes. It is about how many block are mined by XT nodes. (what is the total hash power of XT nodes)

it's an important metric of sentiment, as i've said all along.  not to mention of validation/relaying infrastructure.  miners will be watching it carefully to make their own decisions.

75% of total hash power has a merit. What is the current % ?
iCEBREAKER
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August 15, 2015, 11:46:04 PM
 #30658

XT nodes moving up quickly. 

despite a tighter chart filter measuring ONLY hard bigger block acceptance via 0.11A which knocked down the # measured nodes earlier this morning from 207 --> 80'ish, by this afternoon the # is back up to 206 currently.

You better figure out how to work manual coin control.

Because I have a feeling your hoard of LeBron coins may be inexplicably tainted enhanced by thousands of small GavinCoin "gifts."

 Grin

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Wallets - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }


Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
https://twitter.com/Tone_LLT/status/717822927908024320


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

"Hard forks cannot be co
vokain
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August 15, 2015, 11:49:06 PM
 #30659

[..]

In the remote possiblity XT becomes a matter of more importance than the hype, mirth, and scorn it generates at present, MPex and other 1MBer Elder Whales are prepared to use substantial (possibly exhaustive) portions of their extraordinarily massive war chests to repel 8MBer attacks.  To them, this is Holy War, with barbarian Gavinista hordes clamouring for a Free Shit Junta at the gates of their bespoke civilization.  They are more of a mood to impale heads atop spikes than reward with compromise Hearn's attacks on decentralization, Tor, and the consensus process.

[...]

So you suggest the Elder Whales will buy up bitcoins from their stash of xtcoins? Just like a central bank would do? Well that is going to be interesting. But there is a risk of losing it all, so I would not bet that it plays out that way.


What are you smoking, crack?  Elder Whales exercising their GavinCoin Short option is nothing like what central banks do.  Your confused, sketchy understanding of the situation continues to surprise and baffle me with its surreal assumptions and bizarre conclusions.   Cheesy

So how do they defend the cripplecoin. Pitchforks?


This is one way to defend Bitcoin from XTcoin: The GavinCoin Short.

That's FTLDR.


Are you smoking crack? It's like a few paragraphs.

...مكتوب
Escape the plutocrats’ zanpakutō, Flower in the Mirror, Moon on the Water: brave “the ascent which is rough and steep” (Plato).
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August 15, 2015, 11:49:46 PM
 #30660

Big middle finger to iCEBLOW, brg444, tvbcof, and MOA:



You know I couldn't wait for this one heh  Grin

Market reaction to XT fork   Shocked



"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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