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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1804531 times)
phoenix1
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August 06, 2015, 04:04:47 PM
 #29901

@ ICETroll
you missed the edit at the bottom of the article linking to this tweet

Quote
Update 10:08 GMT: OKCoin has pointed out that they sent out a tweet in support of the block size limit increase in May.

https://twitter.com/OKCoinBTC/status/598412795240009728

Quote
Block size increase makes #Bitcoin more efficient and enables faster confirmations. OKCoin's tech team believes it's the right decision.

You also totally misrepresent the article in your post (usual behaviour  Roll Eyes):

Quote
both exchanges recognize that the current one megabyte block size limit is probably too small for Bitcoin to reach mainstream adoption

Quote
“We believe in a gradual increase of the block size limit along with a hard upper limit to prevent misuse,“

Quote
BTCChina and Huobi shared concerns that a jump to 20 megabytes might be too big, while suggesting that a more sustainable long term solution should be sought after

There is another artilce (which I am sure you won't bother to dig out, and I ma not going to do for you) where they virtually agreed to an increase to 8MB blocks.

20MB was always Gavin's opening gambit ...

#REKT ... I don't think so ... Roll Eyes


"Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves"  - Confucius (China 551BC-479 BC)
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cypherdoc
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August 06, 2015, 04:05:23 PM
 #29902

simple maths that the Cripplecoiner's love to ignore.  thx to Peter_R for highlighting the importance of the exchange price:


Anthony Towns via bitcoin-dev
4 days ago
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I haven't seen anyone do the (trivial) maths on this. Have I just
missed it? By my count:

- blocks in 25 btc in rewards and about 0.5 btc in fees per block
- at ~$300 USD per btc, that's ~$7,650 per block

- current hashrate is ~400 PH/s; so ~240,000 PH/block works out
to having to spend about 30PH per dollar earnt.
- for comparison,
https://products.butterflylabs.com/cloud-mining-contracts.html
quotes $1.99 per GH/s for 12 months, which by my count is
60*60*24*365 / 1.99 GH/$ = 15.8 PH per dollar spent
- hashrate growth has slowed from about x4/quarter to x2/year:
sep '13: ~1PH/s
dec '13: ~4PH/s
mar '14: ~20PH/s
jun '14: ~80PH/s
sep '14: ~200PH/s
aug '15: ~400PH/s

- so, as far as I understand it, miners don't make absurd profits compared
to capital investment and running costs
- presumably, then, miners will stop mining bitcoin if the revenue/block
drops significantly at some point
- less miners means a lower hashrate; a lower hashrate makes
50% attacks easier, and that's a bad thing
(especially if there's lots
of pre-loved ASIC mining hardware available cheap on ebay or alibaba)

- in about a year, the block reward halves, cutting out 12.5 btc or
~$3750 USD per block
. without an increase in fees per block, miners
will just get ~$3900 USD per block
- the last time the reward for mining a block was under $4000 per block
was around oct '13, with a hashrate of ~2PH/s

- 13 btc in fees per block compared to .5 btc in fees per block is a
25x increase; which could be either an increase in fee/txn or
txns/block
- with ~500 bytes/transaction, that's ~2000 transactions per MB
- 13 btc in fees ($3900) per block means per transaction fees of
about
$2 for 1MB blocks
$1 for 2MB blocks
25c for 8MB blocks
10c for 20MB blocks
(assuming full blocks, 500 byte txns)

- comparing that to credit card or paypal fees at ~2.5% that's:
$2 -> minimum transaction $80
$1 -> minimum transaction $40
25c -> minimum transaction $10
10c -> minimum transaction $4

- those numbers only depend on the USD/BTC exchange rate in so far as
the more USD for a BTC, the more likely the block reward will pay
for hashrate without transaction fees, even with the reward reduced
to 12.5 btc/block. otherwise it's just USD/txn paying for USD/hashrate

- the reference implementation fee of 0.1mBTC/kB equates to about
3c per transaction (since it rounds up). Even 10c/transaction is more
than a 3x increase on that.

What the above says to me is that even assuming everyone starts paying
fees, the lightning network works great, and so do sidechains and whatever
else, you /still/ want to up the volume of bitcoin txns by something like
an order of magnitude above what's currently allowed within a year or so.


Cheers,
aj
brg444
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August 06, 2015, 04:16:41 PM
 #29903

as Andreas says, "prepare to lose all your money!"  

same Andreas who vouched for NeoBee?

same Andreas who broke everything while at blockchain.info?

same Andreas who's spreading wallet hacking malware on twitter?

Yep. sure making his best effort to lose people money.

That guy is an oblivious douche. I wouldn't want him on my side other than to gather some more reddit derp "support"

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
iCEBREAKER
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August 06, 2015, 04:27:21 PM
 #29904


20MB was always Gavin's opening gambit ...


Oh sure...and getting broken on the Blackwater was always Stannis' opening gambit ...

If you backpedal any faster it might cause a time vortex.   Smiley

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Wallets - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }


Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
https://twitter.com/Tone_LLT/status/717822927908024320


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

"Hard forks cannot be co
cypherdoc
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August 06, 2015, 04:39:21 PM
 #29905

only 14 more pts to go...

whoops.  breach in the hull...

sell, sell, sell.

now we have the $DJI & $DJT in sync to the downside:

cypherdoc
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August 06, 2015, 04:40:41 PM
 #29906

as Andreas says, "prepare to lose all your money!"  

same Andreas who vouched for NeoBee?

same Andreas who broke everything while at blockchain.info?

same Andreas who's spreading wallet hacking malware on twitter?

Yep. sure making his best effort to lose people money.

That guy is an oblivious douche. I wouldn't want him on my side other than to gather some more reddit derp "support"

digging your heels in, eh? 

the Kid Troll trashing anybody who's anybody in the space to try and prove his point.
majamalu
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August 06, 2015, 04:43:14 PM
 #29907


as Andreas says, "prepare to lose all your money!" 

They will not lose one satoshi. They will follow the economic majority and they will pretend that they are actually being followed.

http://elbitcoin.org - Bitcoin en español
http://mercadobitcoin.com - MercadoBitcoin
cypherdoc
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August 06, 2015, 04:46:37 PM
 #29908


as Andreas says, "prepare to lose all your money!" 

They will not lose one satoshi. They will follow the economic majority and they will pretend that they are actually being followed.

possibly, but that may be giving them too much credit.

myopes can't see past their own noses.  take it from an eye surgeon.
phoenix1
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August 06, 2015, 04:54:31 PM
 #29909


20MB was always Gavin's opening gambit ...


Oh sure...and getting broken on the Blackwater was always Stannis' opening gambit ...

If you backpedal any faster it might cause a time vortex.   Smiley

As usual, you pick up one element of the post, and ignore the rest, (the part that highlights your own misrepresentation of the article)

What exactly am I backpedalling from iCE? As this is my first post here re size, bit tricky to see what I am backpedalling from. I have always held the opinion that you quote. It is my interpretation of the situation, right or wrong. Is, was, remains unchanged. The only vortices are those you continue to create with your spinning of everyone's words. You'll get sucked into one of those, one of these days ...




"Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves"  - Confucius (China 551BC-479 BC)
cypherdoc
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August 06, 2015, 04:55:50 PM
 #29910

/u/SwagPokerz nailed for probable Cripplecoiner shilling:

from gizram84 via /r/Bitcoin/ sent 8 minutes ago

show parent

Here's an example

Click the "parent" link under my comment. You'll see it just links to "[deleted]".

    contextfull comments (33)reportmark unreadreply


https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3g04we/this_isnt_some_kind_of_thing_where_bitcoin_will/cttqb34?context=3
kazuki49
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August 06, 2015, 05:03:51 PM
 #29911

fiat is king. btw the hate bitcoiners have against fiat is far stronger than the political skirmish some moneranoj have against bitcoin (me included, I dont see reasons to use bitcoin anymore), seeing how bitcoin needs fiat to survive its quite a paradox it is hated so much, monero on other hand doesnt need bitcoin to survive.

So says the Monero pimp.

Sure, history will look funny to guys like you, the first proper electronic cash looked down upon by some holders of the first decentralized token.
cypherdoc
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August 06, 2015, 05:08:09 PM
 #29912

paging Janet...

down she goes:



iCEBREAKER
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August 06, 2015, 05:31:55 PM
 #29913

paging Janet...

down she goes:

[gloom.png]

[doom.png]

Silly Frap.doc, you just need to borrow a pair of rose-colored glasses from Gavin or Zarathustra.


Recessions, crises, depressions appear cyclically. As everybody knows. The economy has been growing since 2010.


See?  Keep calm and long AMZN.

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Wallets - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }


Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
https://twitter.com/Tone_LLT/status/717822927908024320


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

"Hard forks cannot be co
Zarathustra
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August 06, 2015, 05:49:18 PM
 #29914

paging Janet...

down she goes:

[gloom.png]

[doom.png]

Silly Frap.doc, you just need to borrow a pair of rose-colored glasses from Gavin or Zarathustra.


Recessions, crises, depressions appear cyclically. As everybody knows. The economy has been growing since 2010.


See?  Keep calm and long AMZN.

Keep calm and long AMZN? This is your interpretation of the reality? which is:

Recessions, crises, depressions appear cyclically. As everybody knows. The economy has been growing since 2010.


"Staat nenne ich's, wo alle Gifttrinker sind, Gute und Schlimme: Staat, wo alle sich selber verlieren, Gute und Schlimme:
Staat, wo der langsame Selbstmord aller – »das Leben« heisst."
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August 06, 2015, 05:54:00 PM
 #29915

paging Janet...

down she goes:

[gloom.png]

[doom.png]

Silly Frap.doc, you just need to borrow a pair of rose-colored glasses from Gavin or Zarathustra.


Recessions, crises, depressions appear cyclically. As everybody knows. The economy has been growing since 2010.


See?  Keep calm and long AMZN.

Is that so?  Then why is Jeff Bezos selling?
http://www.geekwire.com/2015/as-amazon-shares-soar-jeff-bezos-unloads-532m-in-his-largest-stock-sale-ever/

Also at something like ~3100 trailing P/E, no thanks.
cypherdoc
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August 06, 2015, 05:55:48 PM
 #29916

paging Janet...

down she goes:

[gloom.png]

[doom.png]

Silly Frap.doc, you just need to borrow a pair of rose-colored glasses from Gavin or Zarathustra.


Recessions, crises, depressions appear cyclically. As everybody knows. The economy has been growing since 2010.


See?  Keep calm and long AMZN.

iCEBLOW, you're so confused.

long AMZN?  and you've been criticizing Gavin for saying the crisis is over?  bwahahahaha.
Adrian-x
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August 06, 2015, 06:01:36 PM
 #29917

as Andreas says, "prepare to lose all your money!"  

same Andreas who vouched for NeoBee?

same Andreas who broke everything while at blockchain.info?

same Andreas who's spreading wallet hacking malware on twitter?

Yep. sure making his best effort to lose people money.

That guy is an oblivious douche. I wouldn't want him on my side other than to gather some more reddit derp "support"

reading your and iCE's comments is like watching English soccer fans pick favorite players, you hang on to the strangest things.

I just watched that youtube and Andreas says it like it is, what part of Bitcoin consensus do you disagree with and why?


Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
iCEBREAKER
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August 06, 2015, 06:12:16 PM
 #29918

The economy has been growing since 2010.

The economy has been growing since 2010.

OMG, it keeps getting more hilarious each time you say it.  Tell us another one!   Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy

(Frap.doc, please replace the battery in your sarcasm detector.   Wink)

EDIT:



#REKT

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Wallets - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }


Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
https://twitter.com/Tone_LLT/status/717822927908024320


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

"Hard forks cannot be co
brg444
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Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks


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August 06, 2015, 06:23:44 PM
 #29919

this is whom yall chose to place your faith in  Huh


"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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August 06, 2015, 06:30:33 PM
 #29920

The economy has been growing since 2010.

The economy has been growing since 2010.

OMG, it keeps getting more hilarious each time you say it.  Tell us another one!   Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy

(Frap.doc, please replace the battery in your sarcasm detector.   Wink)

Yes, it has been growing since 2010. But calm down, I know that despite the growing economy,

There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in

We asked for signs
the signs were sent:
the birth betrayed
the marriage spent
Yeah the widowhood
of every government --
signs for all to see.

I can't run no more
with that lawless crowd
while the killers in high places
say their prayers out loud.
But they've summoned, they've summoned up
a thundercloud
and they're going to hear from me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_e39UmEnqY8

"Staat nenne ich's, wo alle Gifttrinker sind, Gute und Schlimme: Staat, wo alle sich selber verlieren, Gute und Schlimme:
Staat, wo der langsame Selbstmord aller – »das Leben« heisst."
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