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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1804676 times)
Zarathustra
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August 08, 2015, 06:42:48 AM
 #30001

The economy has been growing since 2010.
The economy has been growing since 2010.
Yes, it has been growing since 2010.

these guys used to be one of the biggest bulk carrier companies in the world.  not so much anymore:


OMG you sound like the conspiracy idiots at Zero Knowledge.  Don't you know [easy credit * car loans] = [economic growth]?

As long as credit (which is money) is growing, the economy is growing as well.
As soon as the total credit sum deflates, the economy deflates as well.
This is in short the 1x1 of capitalism, which is debitism.

Less credit (less money) = less economy
Moar credit = moar economy

https://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?width=630&height=378&range=Max&id=TCMDO

and as Cypher and iCE elude too that does not benefit the 99% but just those with assess to type of capital you need to fund multinational corporations and there acquisitions so yes the system is growing, no it's not healthy.

Capitalism (Debitism) has never been 'healthy'. It is a state bastard, cyclically growing rampant until it implodes. That's never been something for the 99%. That's the difference to an anarchistic life style of the paleolithic self-sufficient communities. The neolithic revolution is the invention of the state mafia (patriarchy), the birth of the tragedy. But collectivists (iCEmen, kRUGmen et al.) don't like anarchism.

Cypher's mentality represents the mentality of an idealist - while iCE et al. represent the mentality of the aristocrats (1%).

"Staat nenne ich's, wo alle Gifttrinker sind, Gute und Schlimme: Staat, wo alle sich selber verlieren, Gute und Schlimme:
Staat, wo der langsame Selbstmord aller – »das Leben« heisst."
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Zarathustra
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August 08, 2015, 07:43:32 AM
 #30002

the sweet smell of deflation:


Don't worry, if you thought Bennie's helicopter drop was large you haven't seen anything yet. The FED will panic print to dig out of the debt depression hole they've created and the only things that will survive are real assets and real money. XOM owns real assets and will still exist on the other size of the FED's crash and still pay out cash flow from operations, in whatever unit is used as currency at the time.

In a society (which is the opposite of a self-sufficient, paleolitic, pre-patriarchal, anarchic community), assets are always valued in debt (=money).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt:_The_First_5000_Years

When debt (money) disappeared, the society disappeared as well. That's 'life' since the neolithic revolution, the invention of the state (organized violence).

Crypto/Bitcoin is the best enemy of the society.
@Fonestar, a brilliant commentator of the articles on Zero Knowledge: "The Bitcoiners are going to totally destroy your society and your laws"

"Staat nenne ich's, wo alle Gifttrinker sind, Gute und Schlimme: Staat, wo alle sich selber verlieren, Gute und Schlimme:
Staat, wo der langsame Selbstmord aller – »das Leben« heisst."
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August 08, 2015, 10:34:37 AM
 #30003

In a society (which is the opposite of a self-sufficient, paleolitic, pre-patriarchal, anarchic community), assets are always valued in debt (=money).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt:_The_First_5000_Years

yeah, because no one ever used gold and silver as money, or any other commodity-money. Or if they did, they were paleolithic, like USA 1-2 centuries ago.
[/leftist drivel]

smoothie
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LEALANA Monero Physical Silver Coins


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August 08, 2015, 11:44:08 AM
 #30004

Interesting piece on the 2013 fork.  https://freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/randomwalker/analyzing-the-2013-bitcoin-fork-centralized-decision-making-saved-the-day/?utm_content=buffer4f46c&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Some ungrateful people here need to show a little more respect for the work of the devs, especially LukeJr.

You of all people would idolize Luke jr

You of all ungrateful people here need to show a little more respect for the work of the devs, especially LukeJr.

Uh no. No one needs to show more respect for LukeJr.

Who made him king?  Roll Eyes

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Zarathustra
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August 08, 2015, 02:11:46 PM
 #30005

In a society (which is the opposite of a self-sufficient, paleolitic, pre-patriarchal, anarchic community), assets are always valued in debt (=money).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt:_The_First_5000_Years

yeah, because no one ever used gold and silver as money, or any other commodity-money. Or if they did, they were paleolithic, like USA 1-2 centuries ago.
[/leftist drivel]

Metals are only derivatives of money (which is debt, from the very beginning). Without debt, there is no economy, but self-sufficiency (anarchy).

"Staat nenne ich's, wo alle Gifttrinker sind, Gute und Schlimme: Staat, wo alle sich selber verlieren, Gute und Schlimme:
Staat, wo der langsame Selbstmord aller – »das Leben« heisst."
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August 08, 2015, 02:20:40 PM
 #30006

Gold collapsing. Bitcoin collapsing. It won't stop...

BTC: 1K9atu5zgz7izCMAynk5adBJ8Qn2YgS6nT
lexuz
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August 08, 2015, 02:42:04 PM
 #30007

Gold collapsing. Bitcoin collapsing. It won't stop...
Not only gold and bitcoin, oil and copper collapsing too. Gold will crash under $1000 and bitcoin its hard for me to say but sorry bitcoin will crash under $250  Cry
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August 08, 2015, 03:33:43 PM
 #30008

In a society (which is the opposite of a self-sufficient, paleolitic, pre-patriarchal, anarchic community), assets are always valued in debt (=money).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt:_The_First_5000_Years

yeah, because no one ever used gold and silver as money, or any other commodity-money. Or if they did, they were paleolithic, like USA 1-2 centuries ago.
[/leftist drivel]

Metals are only derivatives of money (which is debt, from the very beginning). Without debt, there is no economy, but self-sufficiency (anarchy).

Evry movement have their own words...
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August 08, 2015, 03:43:13 PM
 #30009

Metals are only derivatives of money (which is debt, from the very beginning). Without debt, there is no economy, but self-sufficiency (anarchy).

I and J.P. Morgan disrespectfully disagree:
"Gold Is Money, Everything Else Is Credit"

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August 08, 2015, 04:08:57 PM
 #30010

Metals are only derivatives of money (which is debt, from the very beginning). Without and tuck operation there is no economy, but self-sufficiency (anarchy).

I and J.P. Morgan disrespectfully disagree:
"Gold Is Money, Everything Else Is Credit"

My Bitcoin journey began with reading Adam Smith Wealth of Nations, metals held value that was in a way derived from debt (a debt to society for providing resources to the ones mining the metatarsal.) Metals that lasted then became valuable for their utility it's utility and store of value function has been vastly distorted today and it all began with generosity and debt.

 I agree with Zarathustra, that free of this crazy story we all live, in a utilitarian world metals would not be valued as they are (I'm also not thinking we're going back to the stone age, but to a similar way of being leveraged of the technology and necessary intercooperation needed to leverage it's benefits that provides the utility that was once the domain of metals over 5000 years ago.


Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
cypherdoc
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August 08, 2015, 04:41:17 PM
 #30011

the sweet smell of deflation:


Don't worry, if you thought Bennie's helicopter drop was large you haven't seen anything yet. The FED will panic print to dig out of the debt depression hole they've created and the only things that will survive are real assets and real money. XOM owns real assets and will still exist on the other size of the FED's crash and still pay out cash flow from operations, in whatever unit is used as currency at the time.

In a society (which is the opposite of a self-sufficient, paleolitic, pre-patriarchal, anarchic community), assets are always valued in debt (=money).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt:_The_First_5000_Years

When debt (money) disappeared, the society disappeared as well. That's 'life' since the neolithic revolution, the invention of the state (organized violence).

Crypto/Bitcoin is the best enemy of the society.
@Fonestar, a brilliant commentator of the articles on Zero Knowledge: "The Bitcoiners are going to totally destroy your society and your laws"

yes, i've never actually gotten around to reading that altho i've read many summaries of it and tend to agree with it's theories.  this is the Wences version of the origin of money and makes perfect sense that ppl would quite naturally start off keeping track of debts owed first with memory and then via tracking mechanisms (ledgers).  gold is a dervative of this theory and is quite cumbersome and impractical and thus never quite got out of the blocks in a major way in a modern society.  not to mention all it's faults which allow it to be manipulated into oblivion despite it's relatively fixed supply (2% inflation).

Bitcoin is hard and fixed.  all this extrapolation from Matonis about inflating the supply as a result of raising the block limit is nonsense.  they are completely two different issues.  one involves imagination while the other is a no brainer. 
acquafredda
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August 08, 2015, 07:41:06 PM
 #30012

Gold collapsing. Bitcoin collapsing. It won't stop...
Come on man.
It's a good time to buy more.
Dollars can't keep this strength for long. They'll eventually pop again and our magic metal and our fancy crypto money will go up again.

Shiny coins: this is what I see now!
 Wink

Seneca said: “There is no favorable wind for the sailor who doesn’t know where to go“.
Zarathustra
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August 08, 2015, 08:01:00 PM
 #30013

the sweet smell of deflation:


Don't worry, if you thought Bennie's helicopter drop was large you haven't seen anything yet. The FED will panic print to dig out of the debt depression hole they've created and the only things that will survive are real assets and real money. XOM owns real assets and will still exist on the other size of the FED's crash and still pay out cash flow from operations, in whatever unit is used as currency at the time.

In a society (which is the opposite of a self-sufficient, paleolitic, pre-patriarchal, anarchic community), assets are always valued in debt (=money).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt:_The_First_5000_Years

When debt (money) disappeared, the society disappeared as well. That's 'life' since the neolithic revolution, the invention of the state (organized violence).

Crypto/Bitcoin is the best enemy of the society.
@Fonestar, a brilliant commentator of the articles on Zero Knowledge: "The Bitcoiners are going to totally destroy your society and your laws"

yes, i've never actually gotten around to reading that altho i've read many summaries of it and tend to agree with it's theories.  this is the Wences version of the origin of money and makes perfect sense that ppl would quite naturally start off keeping track of debts owed first with memory and then via tracking mechanisms (ledgers).  gold is a dervative of this theory and is quite cumbersome and impractical and thus never quite got out of the blocks in a major way in a modern society.  not to mention all it's faults which allow it to be manipulated into oblivion despite it's relatively fixed supply (2% inflation).

Bitcoin is hard and fixed.  all this extrapolation from Matonis about inflating the supply as a result of raising the block limit is nonsense.  they are completely two different issues.  one involves imagination while the other is a no brainer.  

Yes, information. And the first debt is the debt to the war lords. This starts the whole thing (economy). Credit comes later and is a derivative of this first debt. Metals were among the first things that the underdogs had to tribute to the war lords (state), for the purpose to produce weapons to organize the violence.

This is the Tutankhamun dagger:



Dr. Paul C. Martin's paper about "The history of violence of the precious metal", unfortunately in German only:

http://www.goldseiten.de/content/kolumnen/download/pcm-17.pdf

"Staat nenne ich's, wo alle Gifttrinker sind, Gute und Schlimme: Staat, wo alle sich selber verlieren, Gute und Schlimme:
Staat, wo der langsame Selbstmord aller – »das Leben« heisst."
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August 08, 2015, 10:29:21 PM
 #30014

Gold collapsing. Bitcoin collapsing. It won't stop...
Come on man.
It's a good time to buy more.
Dollars can't keep this strength for long. They'll eventually pop again and our magic metal and our fancy crypto money will go up again.

Shiny coins: this is what I see now!
 Wink

yes, keep stacking. metals are backed by history. they were and still are a solid hedge.
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August 09, 2015, 12:28:33 AM
 #30015

Meanwhile...as Frap.doc and the Gavinistas fret about coffee purchases being dislocated to side/alt chains...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-08-08/12-trillion-fat-finger-how-glitch-nearly-crashed-global-financials-system-true-story

Quote
This bank had pioneered a process called straight-through processing (STP) which removes the normal manual processes of placement, checking, settling and clearing of trades. Trades done in the global marketplace typically have a 5-day clearing period to allow for all the paperwork and book-keeping to be done. This elaborate system allowed same-day settlement, something never previously possible. The bank had achieved this over a period of six years by developing a computer system with a degree of complexity that rivalled SkyNet. By 2006 it also probably had enough processing power to become self-aware, and the storage requirements were absolutely colossal. It consisted of hundreds of bleeding edge compute-farm blade servers, several £multi-million top-end database servers and the project had over 300 staff just to keep it running. To put that into perspective, the storage for this one system (one of about 500 major trading systems at the bank) represented over 80% of the total storage used within the company. The equivalent of 100 DVD's worth of raw data entered the databases each day as it handled over a million inter-bank trades, each ranging in value from a few hundred thousand dollars to multi-billion dollar equity deals. This thing was BIG.

You'd think such a critically important and expensive system would run on the finest, fault-tolerant hardware and software. Unfortunately, it had grown somewhat organically over the years, with bits being added here, there and everywhere. There were parts of this system that no-one understood any more, as the original, lazy developers had moved company, emigrated or *died* without documenting their work. I doubt they ever predicted the monster it would eventually become.

A colleague of mine one day decided to perform a change during the day without authorisation, which was foolish, but not uncommon. It was a trivial change to add yet more storage and he'd done it many times before so he was confident about it. The guy was only trying to be helpful to the besieged developers, who were constantly under pressure to keep the wretched thing moving as it got more bloated each day, like an electronic ‘Mr Creosote’.

As my friend applied his change that morning, he triggered a bug in a notoriously crap script responsible for bringing new data disks online. The script had been coded in-house as this saved the bank about £300 per year on licensing fees for the official ‘storage agents’ provided by the vendor. Money that, in hindsight, would perhaps have been better spent instead of pocketed. The homebrew code took one look at the new configuration and immediately spazzed out. This monged scrap of pisspoor geek-scribble had decided the best course of action was to bring down the production end of the system and bring online the disaster recovery (DR) end, which is normal behaviour when it detects a catastrophic 'failure'. It’s designed to bring up the working side of the setup as quickly as possible. Sadly, what with this system being fully-replicated at both sites (to [cough] ensure seamless recovery), the exact same bug was almost instantly triggered on the DR end, so in under a minute, the hateful script had taken offline the entire system in much the same manner as chucking a spanner into a running engine might stop a car. The databases, as always, were flushing their precious data onto many different disks as this happened, so massive, irreversible data corruption occurred. That was it, the biggest computer system in the bank, maybe even the world, was down.

And it wasn't coming back up again quickly.

(OK, detail over. Calm down)

At the time this failure occurred there was more than $12 TRILLION of trades at various stages of the settlement process in the system. This represented around 20% of ALL trades on the global stock market, as other banks had started to plug into this behemoth and use its capabilities themselves. If those trades were not settled within the agreed timeframe, the bank would be liable for penalties on each and every one, the resulting fines would eclipse the market capital of the company, and so it would go out of business. Just like that.

My team dropped everything it was doing and spent 4 solid, brutal hours recovering each component of the system in a desperate effort to coax the stubborn silicon back online. After a short time, the head of the European Central Bank (ECB) was on a crisis call with our company CEO, demanding status updates as to why so many trades were failing that day. Allegedly (as we were later told), the volume of financial goodies contained within this beast was so great that failure to clear the trades would have had a significant negative effect on the value of the Euro currency. This one fuckup almost started a global economic crisis on a scale similar to the recent (and ongoing) sub-prime credit crash. With two hours to spare before the ECB would be forced to go public by adjusting the Euro exchange rate to compensate, the system was up and running, but barely. We each manned a critical sub-component and diverted all resources into the clearing engines. The developers set the system to prioritise trades on value. Everything else on those servers was switched off to ensure every available CPU cycle and disk operation could be utilised. It saturated those machines with processing while we watched in silence, unable to influence the outcome at all.

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Wallets - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }


Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
https://twitter.com/Tone_LLT/status/717822927908024320


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

"Hard forks cannot be co
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August 09, 2015, 04:40:01 AM
 #30016

Deflation...

"A CRC executive said that it has put more than 50,000 freight train cars in storage due to lack of demand for shipping."

CRC = China Railway Corp

http://english.caixin.com/2015-08-06/100837142.html

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August 09, 2015, 10:15:47 AM
 #30017

Gold collapsing. Bitcoin collapsing. It won't stop...
Come on man.
It's a good time to buy more.
Dollars can't keep this strength for long. They'll eventually pop again and our magic metal and our fancy crypto money will go up again.

Shiny coins: this is what I see now!
 Wink

yes, keep stacking. metals are backed by history. they were and still are a solid hedge.

stake some shiny virtual coins as well. Bitcoin is overperforming gold in the first six months of this year.
I got some more and I'm planning to buy even more as soon as possible.
I'm waiting for the price to calm down: in this days we're having a little dump.

Seneca said: “There is no favorable wind for the sailor who doesn’t know where to go“.
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August 09, 2015, 03:10:37 PM
 #30018

I hope all of you have reviewed my posts in the kLee's PnF thread in the Economics -> Speculation forum.

You will find there people who will verify that I have predicted all of the major moves of the BTC price since the top last 2013. For example, I predicted the $315 top recently for the bounce exactly. And I made that prediction back in May when we were loitering in the low $200s.

You might also view my prescient public prediction for silver back in 2010 predicting the rise from $26 to $48 by March to May 2011 and then a fall to $26:

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article23786.html

I am able to do this by understanding very well both group psychology and more importantly because I understand Martin Armstrong's $1 billion supercomputer model of the history of the world, which for example predicted the closing price of oil at $54 for Dec. 31, 2014, back when oil was $100. I distinctly remember reading his blog back in August 2012 when the DJIA was correcting back below 12,000 and he predicted a steady rise from there to a possible double or triple. He also said that if it topped @ 18,000 in 2015, then that would be the sign that the USA stock markets had phase shifted (from being a public asset such as sovereign bonds) and aligned with private assets (such as gold, collectibles, Bitcoin). The point being that private assets peaked in 2011 (Bitcoin 2013 because it was playing catch up) and they will make their lows as the liquidity crisis accelerates and the final move into the short-end of the yield curve for bonds in Europe this October.

So gold, Bitcoin, and altcoins will be making their lows this coming spring 2016. This is 100% certain.

Expect gold to drop to < $700 ($680), Bitcoin will drop to double-digits again, and altcoins will be demolished fall to perhaps 1/5 their current prices.


So do NOT buy altcoins now. You want to be selling everything and moving to $dollars and wait.

As the Europe crisis accelerates this September - January, cash will be king. Japan will follow for its final leg down on its 26 year crisis culmination.

All over the world, capital is going to be stampeding into the $dollar and then USA stocks as safe haven. By 2017.9, we will see the DJIA double in price.

Private assets such as Bitcoin and gold, will get sold off severely because the shorts will pile on once they smell blood. The bottom will be reached by short covering, not by bulls. The bulls will be exhausted and have lost most of their capital by selling at the lows (which is what always happens to delusional fools who believe in an investing GOD as if BITGOD is something that can disobey the normal laws of investing).

I am telling you this because I want you to reserve some $dollar cash, so that you will be able to buy BTC and any world changing altcoin in Spring 2016 and become incredibly wealthy.

Ignore my warning at your peril!




...Looks like week of Aug 10 will ensue the big sell off in gold (and probably also Bitcoin):




Originally posted on MA's blog 20th July.

http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/35149

Well, here we almost are. Let's see if anything happens.

majamalu
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August 09, 2015, 03:57:46 PM
 #30019


So gold, Bitcoin, and altcoins will be making their lows this coming spring 2016. This is 100% certain.

Expect gold to drop to < $700 ($680), Bitcoin will drop to double-digits again, and altcoins will be demolished fall to perhaps 1/5 their current prices.



"100% certain"  Roll Eyes  This could haunt you for the rest of your life, if you had a conscience.

http://elbitcoin.org - Bitcoin en español
http://mercadobitcoin.com - MercadoBitcoin
acquafredda
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August 09, 2015, 05:43:56 PM
 #30020

So TPTB here you're telling that this dollar bubble will go up while everything else will go down?
I think modesty is not your best trait since you're basically saying that whatever you told us is going to be like this.

We'll see. I don't know if that's true or not: we'll see that on a daily basis.

Anyway, your analysis is intriguing and interesting but only time will tell.


Seneca said: “There is no favorable wind for the sailor who doesn’t know where to go“.
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