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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1804536 times)
miscreanity
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May 23, 2013, 02:36:20 PM
 #5001

Notice how I commit false choice fallacy. So clever.

Yup. I doubt it'll be long before the paper bag holders are fleeced yet again, only in the opposite direction this time.
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BitcoinAshley
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May 23, 2013, 03:53:13 PM
 #5002

not if you have stops set.

Which is why don't play the paper games or leveraged markets. Physical is better than that in my view.


Smoothie, is your blender blade fashioned out of silver? Grin
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May 23, 2013, 05:07:08 PM
 #5003

Notice how I commit false choice fallacy. So clever.

Yup. I doubt it'll be long before the paper bag holders are fleeced yet again, only in the opposite direction this time.


   "He who sells what isn't his'n
    Must buy it back, or go to prison."

      Daniel Drew

I'll again state my theory that when it is known or confidently predicted by a certain fraction of market participants, the aformentioned assertion will no longer have it's normal effect and markets will behave in an erratic and counter-intuitive manner...for a time...


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LEALANA Monero Physical Silver Coins


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May 23, 2013, 06:27:48 PM
 #5004

not if you have stops set.

Which is why don't play the paper games or leveraged markets. Physical is better than that in my view.


Smoothie, is your blender blade fashioned out of silver? Grin


I am a smoothie not a blender lol

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marcus_of_augustus
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May 24, 2013, 12:31:05 PM
 #5005

http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.co.nz/2013/05/monetary-rapture-incredible.html



Gold run at the COMEX ....  Cool

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May 24, 2013, 02:05:07 PM
 #5006

oh Lordy.  again.

silverbox?



So I just got bored....

Great Panther Silver  Stock price: $0.78  Market Cap:$108M

ASICMiner                Stock Price: BTC2.5($320) Market Cap:$128M


LOL Cheesy

https://tlsnotary.org/ Fraud proofing decentralized fiat-Bitcoin trading.
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May 24, 2013, 02:48:36 PM
 #5007

oh Lordy.  again.

silverbox?



So I just got bored....

Great Panther Silver  Stock price: $0.78  Market Cap:$108M

ASICMiner                Stock Price: BTC2.5($320) Market Cap:$128M


LOL Cheesy

oh, that's just mean. so mean. Tongue
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May 24, 2013, 04:45:53 PM
 #5008

Gold down.  Bitcoin UP.
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May 24, 2013, 07:01:28 PM
 #5009

Gold collapsing.  Bitcoin UP.
Blitz­
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May 24, 2013, 07:04:19 PM
 #5010

cypher, when will we get Gold parity? Grin

"Bitcoin had been transformed from an anarachistic challenge to the financial status quo, to the crypto spawn of Satan, fuelled by cut-throat greed and delusions of avarice." - MatTheCat
"these people don't seem to want to stop till Bitcoin is completely destroyed and left like an old cum rag in the corner of the room." - ShroomsKit
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May 24, 2013, 07:09:07 PM
 #5011

cypher, when will we get Gold parity? Grin

who knows, but the point is, it's going to happen.
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May 24, 2013, 07:14:12 PM
 #5012

I've always seen Bitcoin as Gold 2.0. Or Super Silver.

I wonder how gold bugs reconcile that everything has been going up while gold declined? How does that make sense if it's supposed to be an inflation hedge? Do they just resort to "manipulation" in the paper markets?

"Bitcoin had been transformed from an anarachistic challenge to the financial status quo, to the crypto spawn of Satan, fuelled by cut-throat greed and delusions of avarice." - MatTheCat
"these people don't seem to want to stop till Bitcoin is completely destroyed and left like an old cum rag in the corner of the room." - ShroomsKit
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May 24, 2013, 07:32:07 PM
 #5013

Do they just resort to "manipulation" in the paper markets?

It's not just a "resort". Check out the price of gold that you can hold -or silver with the same quality.
And when Comex or a major western PM dealer defaults the gold bugs will have the last laugh.

Related:
http://dailyreckoning.com/cooking-the-gold-books

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May 24, 2013, 09:24:46 PM
 #5014

I've always seen Bitcoin as Gold 2.0. Or Super Silver.

I wonder how gold bugs reconcile that everything has been going up while gold declined? How does that make sense if it's supposed to be an inflation hedge? Do they just resort to "manipulation" in the paper markets?

IMO, from a fundamental viewpoint, the U.S. dollar recently became positively correlated with the U.S. stock market - a relationship that hasn't existed in length since the 1990s. A higher dollar naturally pushes commodities (e.g. gold) lower. In regards to stocks, there are essentially two types of gold investors - inflationists and doomsdayers - who have arguably pushed gold past a sustainable trajectory in the last few years. Inflationists believe that stocks are heading higher alongside gold. Doomsdayers believe that stocks are going to crash as gold soars because of a lack of trust in the financial system. At the moment, the doomsdayer crowd is getting slaughtered and many are probably panic selling gold as stocks hit all-time highs as many are not only becoming optimistic but euphoric about the future. Many inflationists are also probably selling because inflation is still contained and shows no signs of increasing as Ben Bernanke shows more signs of tapering QE than expanding it. Apart from fundamentals, selling naturally begets selling when a market goes against one's viewpoint and position, and many have been caught on the wrong side of this trade. However, the extreme sentiment shift is pointing to, at least, a minor bullish reversal sooner rather than later. Once this dual supply is absorbed into the market (alongside speculative short-sellers), gold will probably begin following stocks and fading the dollar as usual. But, because of this recent rout of doomsdayers and inflationists, the gold market has probably regained some of its past safe haven status if stocks take a dive because everyone will once more expect Ben to continue QE instead of taper, and previous inflationists and doomsdayers will panic buy what they previously panic sold. It's typical for markets to reverse when everyone is on the same side, and today's market has definitely become a one-sided affair for stock market bulls. Furthermore, reversals typically occur when divergences begin to appear, and the dollar/stocks divergence definitely counts as a warning sign to stock market bulls more so than a new norm. I would keep a close eye on the NIKKEI, the yen, and popular carry trades in the coming weeks because they have led global stocks higher, and a reversal here would likely spill over into other markets.

From a technical perspective, well, you know where I stand, and it's a lot less complicated Cheesy

Hope that helps,

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May 24, 2013, 11:43:31 PM
 #5015

By "everything else is rising" are we referring to the stock markets that are rising on no fundamentals?

Actually, there are a few fundamentals
-Ruthless money printing by CB heads
-Artificially low interest rates, neo-keynesian policies 2 Da Max
-Unemployment rate continuing to rise
-Bubbles everywhere! Bond bubble, student loan bubble, housing bubble (reinflated) etc etc
-Economic data continually looking weaker and weaker
-Constant scandal after scam, year after year, LIBOR, Countryside, CDSs, etc., blatant manipulation everywhere, no tinfoil-hat needed


SOO, I'd say the case for paper gold manipulation isn't exactly a shot in the dark.

Are Silverdoctor and the ridiculous irrational PM-bull "news" sites exaggerating everything they can get their hands on? Sure. But that doesn't vindicate the rest of the fiat economy.

Disclaimer: Not a gold bug, or a BTC bug, or a fiat bug. I prefer the Pokemon approach because even if I'm dead wrong, I'll still be rich.  Cool Cool Cool
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May 25, 2013, 12:03:27 AM
 #5016

And when all these bubbles explode, cash will be king.
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May 25, 2013, 12:34:42 AM
 #5017

And when all these bubbles explode, cash will be king.

cash won't as you can print more

gold won't because all the goldbugs complain and moan about is how they are constantly being manipulated by the banks/gov

bitcoin however can only really be manipulated up in the long term

::CoinWatch:: watch your PPC/BTC/LTC addresses and get a running balance, no QT, no private keys, no passwords, no logins no, sign ups.
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May 25, 2013, 07:11:23 AM
 #5018

Quote
bitcoin however can only really be manipulated up in the long term

Did't know bitcoin is manipulated up!
If the bitcoin price will be up or down depends on the time span u talking about. bitcoin and steam-engines are very much alike.
Both are revolutionary in its day and world changers. And like the steam-engine bitcoin will quickly be surpassed be superior technology. (When that happens price can only go down) Not talking about current copy cats (litecoin....) put truly new designs. Might only exist on paper right now, but is only a matter of time before does new cryptocoins are released. bitcoins only weakness is the time it takes to complete a transaction. Yes steam-trains are still around and have its hard core followers, but it can not compete in the real world with a TGV.
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May 25, 2013, 07:59:41 AM
 #5019

Grin

Eventually paper gold will no longer represent the price of physical. Good to see
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May 25, 2013, 10:31:31 AM
 #5020

Just watched an interesting "goldmoney" interview with Erik Townsend.

With Bitcoin in mind listening to the first 15 or so minutes can be quite exciting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhmmvCgRiew

The rest is also interesting (more about energy / resources / china).

Here are some of the points Mr. Townsends makes:

About USD / EUR / JEN collapse:

  • The fears many people have about the USD collapsing are based on well-founded concerns, but those things are going to happen to Europe and Japan first.
  • This will result in capital flight into the USD
  • This in turn will enable US govt/fed to print more
  • The ultimate consequences of this will be horrific for the United States

About what might happen next in global currency space:

  • There will likely be a new global reserve currency replacing the USD everyone will be forced to use in international trade and new power will go to the new global reserve bankers.
  • Mechanisms by which people will be forced to convert USD->new world currency at unfavorable rates will be interesting to see.
  • Although he doesn't like it, Townsend thinks it will surely be a fiat currency
  • Why fiat? Because a sound money (gold) standard would take power from the governments and they wont give up that power and especially in the US the people are cheering the government so there wont be a revolution that would be necessary to make govt give up power.

about US / russia / china / gold / cold war:

  • Russia/China are buying physical (not only gold, but other resources they would have to buy from the west as well)
  • Townsend thinks what we're seeing is the early stages of the 500 year east-west power cycle reversing with asia being the next hegemonial superpower.
  • There will be a cold war between China and US
  • China is preparing for USD collapse (gold is hedge)
  • China is preparing for collapse of commerce with west by stockpiling coal, gold, copper,...

about energy / US protectionism

  • US might decouple US oil from free market, creating a world in which US pay $80 / barrel and the free market (rest of world) pay $200/barrel
  • This protectionism would bring on trade wars and other international tensions
  • Even if North America (incl. Canada) was able to achieve energy independence consider that this would mean that the rest of the world would no longer trade oil in USD and therefor the US would lose its "exorbitant privilege" (breakdown of petrodollar system -> higher US interest rates -> US bond and currency crisis).
  • Hence the idea of everything getting better because of (unlikely) US energy independence is not accurate.

I thought those were interesting points so I wrote them up for you guys to maybe discuss some.


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