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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1808717 times)
notme
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September 20, 2013, 03:46:43 PM
 #5701


And, as I explained, it would be worthless.  I don't understand your obsession with it.


If there were some evidence of early release, it would be valuable, as it would point to malfeasance.  Though it is very unlikely to find that in the clear anywhere.


What exactly are you disagreeing with?  I only made two claims:
1. There are dozens of people (Fed employees, board members) who knew the decision before it was public.
or
2.  Most of those people are very well connected with Wall Street and government officials.

No problem with these as written, just that they don't lead to a meaningful conclusion in this context without a #3.
Trading something public with inside knowledge, or disclosing that knowledge to someone that trades is what brings the trouble for them.


I never made that claim.  I was just saying that if #3 were to happen, a public release would not be necessary and a timestamp wouldn't show shit.  I got in this whole mess because he asked what time the notes were released and I knew off the top of my head.  I guess I should have just lmgtfy and walked away.  I have no horse in this race, so I'm not going to run any more.  Have fun guys.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
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SkRRJyTC
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September 20, 2013, 06:11:56 PM
 #5702

...  The timestamp could be from the .gov site or any site that crawled it.

And, as I explained, it would be worthless.  I don't understand your obsession with it.

Quote
And I still have seen no proof for what you are saying.

What exactly are you disagreeing with?  I only made two claims:

1. There are dozens of people (Fed employees, board members) who knew the decision before it was public.

or

2.  Most of those people are very well connected with Wall Street and government officials.

I was disagreeing with this assumption

> When the Fed announces a 2pm release, they don't publicly release early.

I think its entirely possible that the minutes were available on a public facing server before 2PM EST.  If I was able to find half a dozen independent sources that had crawled this public facing page at 1:56 then the reasonable assumption to make would be that the minutes were released early, not that the half a dozen independent servers had their system times manipulated.
notme
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September 20, 2013, 07:59:20 PM
 #5703

...  The timestamp could be from the .gov site or any site that crawled it.

And, as I explained, it would be worthless.  I don't understand your obsession with it.

Quote
And I still have seen no proof for what you are saying.

What exactly are you disagreeing with?  I only made two claims:

1. There are dozens of people (Fed employees, board members) who knew the decision before it was public.

or

2.  Most of those people are very well connected with Wall Street and government officials.

I was disagreeing with this assumption

> When the Fed announces a 2pm release, they don't publicly release early.

I think its entirely possible that the minutes were available on a public facing server before 2PM EST.  If I was able to find half a dozen independent sources that had crawled this public facing page at 1:56 then the reasonable assumption to make would be that the minutes were released early, not that the half a dozen independent servers had their system times manipulated.

Well why didn't you say so?  Tongue

Although, if I put on my tinfoil hat, you would only need to manipulate the atomic clock driven timeservers in Colorado to compromise most of NTP.  However, taking the hat off, I doubt such manipulation would go unnoticed.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
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12jh3odyAAaR2XedPKZNCR4X4sebuotQzN
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September 21, 2013, 10:15:50 AM
 #5704


I don't know, Gold has been around for a long time.

I don't know if there is any correlations between Gold price and Bitcoins prices.


Precisely the reason why young people are reluctant to buy gold. It has been there forever. A young person with measly $10000 has no chance to make a huge profit in gold.

FNG
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September 21, 2013, 11:45:10 AM
 #5705


I don't know, Gold has been around for a long time.

I don't know if there is any correlations between Gold price and Bitcoins prices.


Precisely the reason why young people are reluctant to buy gold. It has been there forever. A young person with measly $10000 has no chance to make a huge profit in gold.
I disagree. Read some FOFOA. here's a good post from years ago  http://fofoa.blogspot.com/2009/03/all-paper-is-still-short-position-on.html
sidhujag
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September 22, 2013, 05:17:34 PM
 #5706



Line 1: Venezuela asks London for its gold back (repatriation of 99 tons).
Line 2: Germany asks New York and Paris for its gold back (repatriation of 674 tons).

Normal trading activity would generally cause prices to rise following these events as leased gold would be called back for delivery, but these countries are told to sit on their thumbs for years instead.

Then there is this:



Which looks like a steep drop in physical inventory, yes?

But wait...Lets step back a bit for some perspective...



So it is not just a drop, it is a precipitous drop, unprecedented (it only rose until Germany's demand, then only fell).

But... lets step back just a bit more and add the ETFs into the picture.  The ETFs are the general price setting metric as they are more liquid.  But they are really just paper, and unless you are a bullion bank, it might as well be just fiat, and well, a picture speaks volumes. Smiley



There you have the price falling, but massive redemption of the paper for the physical.  Intuitively redemption SHOULD cause the price to rise as the underlying asset becomes bought and also depleted through redemption.  It is becoming increasingly scarce.  So unless something weird is happening...

Consider that maybe the price is being driven down so that the redemption can be more affordable?  The central banks have it within their charter to manipulate currencies.  Gold (and bitcoin) fall into that category.  They can legally manipulate the price and not suffer the teeth of the CFTC.
I'm no conspiracy buff, but this seems consistent with the evidence at hand.

So tell me... am I crazy to be redeeming bitcoin for physical gold and silver?  Is it crazy to sell the oldest form of money for the digital/virtual/ephemeral at a time when the world is scrambling for the physical?  Maybe I am, but I am having fun doing it, and I like inflation-proof asset diversity.  More than anything, the opportunity to craft the best of its kind Bitcoin Specie has me giddy.  It is the most significant contribution I can make to the community at this time as a designer of numismatic physical money, to back the worlds best virtual currency with the worlds most durable asset.  Others may also do this, so the challenge of setting a higher standard, is exhilarating.

The production minting is starting TODAY (yay, at last), first with the Quarter Bitcoin one troy ounce silver, and soon also in gold, and I am very excited.  My team and I have been working on this for quite a while, and we are pretty happy with the result and hopeful that others will be also.  Sorry if this feels like advertising to you, it is personally exciting and so hard for me to avoid talking about it... but I will stop now.

I know soon you can buy silver via devcoin aswell.. a store is in progress.

You can also earn devcoins by writing on devtome so essentially earn silver via writing.. pretty cool huh
molecular
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September 22, 2013, 09:37:48 PM
 #5707

You can also earn devcoins by writing on devtome so essentially earn silver via writing.. pretty cool huh

You can earn bitcoin by doing work for someone who needs something done. You can also buy silver with bitcoin so you can essentially earn silver by working.

PGP key molecular F9B70769 fingerprint 9CDD C0D3 20F8 279F 6BE0  3F39 FC49 2362 F9B7 0769
wachtwoord
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September 22, 2013, 11:01:58 PM
 #5708

You can also earn devcoins by writing on devtome so essentially earn silver via writing.. pretty cool huh

You can earn bitcoin by doing work for someone who needs something done. You can also buy silver with bitcoin so you can essentially earn silver by working.

So you earn value by working?  Huh No kidding, who knew? 

sidhujag
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September 24, 2013, 02:17:32 AM
 #5709

You can also earn devcoins by writing on devtome so essentially earn silver via writing.. pretty cool huh

You can earn bitcoin by doing work for someone who needs something done. You can also buy silver with bitcoin so you can essentially earn silver by working.

So you earn value by working?  Huh No kidding, who knew? 

Only formal way to get bitcoin without exchanging fiat. Just sayin!
molecular
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September 24, 2013, 06:04:44 AM
 #5710

You can also earn devcoins by writing on devtome so essentially earn silver via writing.. pretty cool huh

You can earn bitcoin by doing work for someone who needs something done. You can also buy silver with bitcoin so you can essentially earn silver by working.

So you earn value by working?  Huh No kidding, who knew? 

Only formal way to get bitcoin without exchanging fiat. Just sayin!

You can also sell some good.

PGP key molecular F9B70769 fingerprint 9CDD C0D3 20F8 279F 6BE0  3F39 FC49 2362 F9B7 0769
sidhujag
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September 24, 2013, 06:41:30 AM
 #5711

You can also earn devcoins by writing on devtome so essentially earn silver via writing.. pretty cool huh

You can earn bitcoin by doing work for someone who needs something done. You can also buy silver with bitcoin so you can essentially earn silver by working.

So you earn value by working?  Huh No kidding, who knew? 

Only formal way to get bitcoin without exchanging fiat. Just sayin!

You can also sell some good.

True but if u have nothing to sell just wanna write to earn u can do it or write some code.. Why not do both until you item sells you can develop and earn.  Im not trolling cause you would be selling devcoin anyway.
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September 24, 2013, 06:50:41 AM
 #5712

didnt they just prove that it was leaked when they saw big trades right when the news was released? Takes 200 msec to get to chicago from ny for news but thousands of trades were already done before news after the clock ticked when news released. The computers were programmed to make trades and to make u think that it was based on the release when it wasnt
NewLiberty
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September 24, 2013, 01:56:53 PM
 #5713

didnt they just prove that it was leaked when they saw big trades right when the news was released? Takes 200 msec to get to chicago from ny for news but thousands of trades were already done before news after the clock ticked when news released. The computers were programmed to make trades and to make u think that it was based on the release when it wasnt

The big trades themselves do not prove "what the trader knew, and when they knew it".

That would need to be in evidence for a criminal charge.  The SEC may investigate, but unless they find evidence of a nexus of communication, it won't lead to more than that.  Otherwise every successful trade is a crime.

If the trades were plausibly based on public information, and the traders assert this effectively, the SEC may not be able to prosecute.  There are fed-watchers famously looking for tell-tale signs (like the look on BB's face when he walked in front of cameras into the building, or some other minor evidence or even a "hunch") things like this could show it to be in the clear.  The trade is not the crime, the trade on non-public information is a crime, as would be the malfeasance of delivering non-public information to a trader.

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1Free of Government
sidhujag
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September 24, 2013, 10:31:48 PM
 #5714

didnt they just prove that it was leaked when they saw big trades right when the news was released? Takes 200 msec to get to chicago from ny for news but thousands of trades were already done before news after the clock ticked when news released. The computers were programmed to make trades and to make u think that it was based on the release when it wasnt

The big trades themselves do not prove "what the trader knew, and when they knew it".

That would need to be in evidence for a criminal charge.  The SEC may investigate, but unless they find evidence of a nexus of communication, it won't lead to more than that.  Otherwise every successful trade is a crime.

If the trades were plausibly based on public information, and the traders assert this effectively, the SEC may not be able to prosecute.  There are fed-watchers famously looking for tell-tale signs (like the look on BB's face when he walked in front of cameras into the building, or some other minor evidence or even a "hunch") things like this could show it to be in the clear.  The trade is not the crime, the trade on non-public information is a crime, as would be the malfeasance of delivering non-public information to a trader.

Happened before:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-11/banks-on-fed-staffer-e-mail-list-get-accidental-leak-of-minutes.html

Evidence was "overwhelming". People do not make BILLION dollar decisions based on a hunch on how someone looks prior to speaking... that's not how smart money has ever worked. Whoever placed the market moving trades knew and in court would be charged unless they buy everyone out to keep them quiet or through other forceful means.

Nanex provided quantitative information on how it proves that someone must have known prior to release.

source: http://qz.com/126823/wednesdays-federal-reserve-announcement-was-leaked-says-a-financial-market-analyst/
cypherdoc
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September 24, 2013, 10:47:48 PM
 #5715

furthermore:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-09-24/tip-box-fed-made-it-possible-many-people-leak-it
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September 25, 2013, 03:06:51 AM
 #5716

Now this is different, and its news, thanks to some anon whistle-blowing?  We may be starting to get evidence of what people knew and when, even if as yet uncorroborated.  
That + trading by any of those entities is SEC bait, and they did trade.  It would also be malfeasance on the part of the Fed. 

Next, we get to discover if the SEC have gained competence since Madoff.

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1Free of Government
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September 25, 2013, 04:43:11 AM
 #5717

Now this is different, and its news, thanks to some anon whistle-blowing?  We may be starting to get evidence of what people knew and when, even if as yet uncorroborated.  
That + trading by any of those entities is SEC bait, and they did trade.  It would also be malfeasance on the part of the Fed. 

Next, we get to discover if the SEC have gained competence since Madoff.

They seem to have shut down one of the BTC stock exchanges. Priorities?

LOL, good point.  They may be too busy researching the manipulation of the Auction Market in World of Warcraft, now that virtual currency is money, to get around to looking into the largest banks in the world scooping money off the table.

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1Free of Government
SkRRJyTC
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September 25, 2013, 12:38:03 PM
 #5718

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-09-24/tip-box-fed-made-it-possible-many-people-leak-it

You mean it was public information before 2PM?  Color me shocked.
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September 25, 2013, 12:58:28 PM
 #5719

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-09-24/tip-box-fed-made-it-possible-many-people-leak-it

You mean it was public information before 2PM?  Color me shocked.

seriously. i have high hopes for the results of this investigation.  Roll Eyes

Bro, do you even blockchain?
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September 25, 2013, 01:03:40 PM
 #5720

I've heard gold is down because more of it has been mined after the price spike.
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