Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[oakpacific]

you have to turn on the smartphone, open Bitcoin Spinner (the most efficient phone app imo), scan a barcode, punch in the amount, click send, then wait perhaps 10 min if they're not using Bitpay.  not a huge deal but not as efficient as the card swipe.  this ignores, of course, all the underlying cc infrastructure BS that goes on.

I think there is a slight difference here, you cc's convenience is established on your trust of the merchant and the credit card issuer(that they will not overcharge you)

this ignores, of course, all the underlying cc infrastructure BS that goes on.

BS stands for Bullshit. 

Oops, missed that.

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[cypherdoc]

i see it differently.  i think most of the intrinsic value of a bitcoin lies in its store of value properties.

[ ...snip... ]

Bitcoin is an ideal store of value.

We all see it differently, to some degree, cypherdoc.

I think the store of value component is damaged by the volatility of it.

My thought is that the intrinsic value of bitcoin lies in the transmission of value (note that this is quite different from general use as a currency).  And as long as settlement times are not outstripped by volatility, it is that which gives the best bang for the buck.

But hey!  That's just me...

Simple question. Why have you put fiat into Bitcoin?  I always ask myself this question when I'm trying to figure out what the masses are doing.

I'll bet you aren't spending a lot of time 'transmitting' it.

[BTC Books]

i see it differently.  i think most of the intrinsic value of a bitcoin lies in its store of value properties.

[ ...snip... ]

Bitcoin is an ideal store of value.

We all see it differently, to some degree, cypherdoc.

I think the store of value component is damaged by the volatility of it.

My thought is that the intrinsic value of bitcoin lies in the transmission of value (note that this is quite different from general use as a currency).  And as long as settlement times are not outstripped by volatility, it is that which gives the best bang for the buck.

But hey!  That's just me...

Simple question. Why have you put fiat into Bitcoin?  I always ask myself this question when I'm trying to figure out what the masses are doing.

I'll bet you aren't spending a lot of time 'transmitting' it.

You're right - I'm not.

I use bitcoin to buy stuff - which isn't what I was talking about, of course - or donate it.  [currency]  And I save it.  [store of value]

But I'm just a little guy - and I actually believe that how the big guys use bitcoin in the mid-term (say... from now until the next halving, or the one after that) will have more impact than I will ever have.  And so - having some experience with the difficulties of moving wealth across borders - I see the impact of that as much larger.  Not as immediately as some believe, I don't think - but Cyprus will have put that thought into play across the world.

The thing is, I look around and I don't see bitcoin doing anything new and different, except for that value transmission component.  Yes, it's speculatively profitable - but that's not unique (as you of all people know, cypherdoc).  And yes, it's egalitarian - but nor is that.  All the use-cases and advantages of bitcoin already exist - if in much less convenient or poorly developed ways.  Contracts, multi-sig, etc.

But there has never been a way to transmit value in the way bitcoin does.  To hold one's wealth inviolate.

So for me, as poorly expressed as it may be, that's the killer in the app.

EDIT:  "To hold one's wealth inviolate - wherever one may choose to go."

[johnyj]

Gold really collapsed I think many people are moving here...

[cypherdoc]

But I'm just a little guy - and I actually believe that how the big guys use bitcoin in the mid-term (say... from now until the next halving, or the one after that) will have more impact than I will ever have.  And so - having some experience with the difficulties of moving wealth across borders - I see the impact of that as much larger.  Not as immediately as some believe, I don't think - but Cyprus will have put that thought into play across the world.

Cyprus illustrates the beauty of Bitcoin as a store of wealth.  Any Cypriot who exchanges Euros for Bitcoin doesn't have to move to a new country nor "transmit" Bitcoin across borders.  The conversion process is sufficient in and of itself to preserve purchasing power and act as a store of wealth.

If the Euro crashes, he could end up living like a King in his own country.

[cypherdoc]

oh, i forgot to acknowledge that labestiol and SkRRJyTC both paid up on their lost 1 BTC bets with me that gold would hit $1500 before it hit $1900.  this bet was established a long time ago and its good to have that resolved.

[bracek]

so, is gold ok, if it's price is deflation adjusted ?

I mean, square meter of house has dropped just like gold has,
and cars are selling for much less than before

[tvbcof]

I have theorized that a harbinger of economic crisis would be a significant decline in paper gold prices.  The basic mechanism would be that certain parties will realize that with a fair degree of confidence they can short sell and fail to deliver due to general market turmoil.  One of the other participants in this thread and I discussed it many pages back.  I think that I said I was expecting either $1k or $1.2k as the ballpark number, and I think he said less.  So I don't know that that is what we are seeing at this point.

Bitcoin is to me at this point a vehicle by which I can obtain more physical gold.  We didn't reach the point at $250/BTC where I was even thinking about starting to ratchet in that play, and I didn't have anything primed up to do so anyway, but at some point that will be my move.

I do wonder in light of $.5B exiting the Bitcoin market cap and stories of sharply out-of-balance physical acquisition of bullion, whether some parties are of my mindset and have made the jump.

[rpietila]

I have theorized that a harbinger of economic crisis would be a significant decline in paper gold prices.  The basic mechanism would be that certain parties will realize that with a fair degree of confidence they can short sell and fail to deliver due to general market turmoil.  One of the other participants in this thread and I discussed it many pages back.  I think that I said I was expecting either $1k or $1.2k as the ballpark number, and I think he said less.  So I don't know that that is what we are seeing at this point.

Bitcoin is to me at this point a vehicle by which I can obtain more physical gold.  We didn't reach the point at $250/BTC where I was even thinking about starting to ratchet in that play, and I didn't have anything primed up to do so anyway, but at some point that will be my move.

I do wonder in light of $.5B exiting the Bitcoin market cap and stories of sharply out-of-balance physical acquisition of bullion, whether some parties are of my mindset and have made the jump.

You could be up to something.. Physical silver is difficult to obtain right now at anything close to "spot".

[Melbustus]

You could be up to something.. Physical silver is difficult to obtain right now at anything close to "spot".

Maybe in bulk or through dealers, but I'm seeing "junk" Morgan and Peace silver dollars going for close to spot on ebay: http://www.spotcoins.com/coins/types/morgan_and_peace_silver_dollars

[cypherdoc]

Gold and Silver not doing so well.

[paraipan]

...

Glad I sold the rest of my silver in January for Bitcoins then Litecoins.

Cypher was right, Litecoins was even more right.  

Good job Cypher!

You're doing a good job supporting botnets by buying those litecoins. Wish you good luck with your investment, at this pace you better leave cryptocoins before harming yourself and others by making informed and wise decisions smoothie.

[cypherdoc]

gold and silver getting destroyed in futures trading tonite.

[miscreanity]

gold and silver getting destroyed in futures trading tonite.

All together now...

Paper gold and silver getting destroyed in futures trading tonite.

[Wingman4l7]

You could be up to something.. Physical silver is difficult to obtain right now at anything close to "spot".

Maybe in bulk or through dealers, but I'm seeing "junk" Morgan and Peace silver dollars going for close to spot on ebay: http://www.spotcoins.com/coins/types/morgan_and_peace_silver_dollars

Careful with these -- there are plenty of Chinese fakes on the market, unfortunately.

[cypherdoc]

gold and silver getting destroyed in futures trading tonite.

All together now...

Paper gold and silver getting destroyed in futures trading tonite.

would you like to buy my gold coins @ $2500/oz please?

[Melbustus]

Yeah, I don't see any spreads between paper and physical. At least on eBay. So far.

[oakpacific]

Gold bleeding....

[cypherdoc]

Yeah, I don't see any spreads between paper and physical. At least on eBay. So far.

its all in his mind.

[smoothie]

Gold and silver getting hammered.

Gold $1420

Silver $23.82