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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1806358 times)
vokain
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June 26, 2013, 12:21:57 AM
 #5301

Thinking of you Doc  Wink
http://www.acting-man.com/?p=24310

...مكتوب
Escape the plutocrats’ zanpakutō, Flower in the Mirror, Moon on the Water: brave “the ascent which is rough and steep” (Plato).
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June 26, 2013, 12:55:49 AM
 #5302

China ain't gonna collapse as long as there are production business left in the western world to out-source. Give it another decade.

In another decade China's exports will have collapsed as American robots and 3D printers lead a resurgence in western manufacturing.  Even China can't beat unpaid labor.
3D Printers are robots.
And who is gonna build the robots? And most importantly who's gonna supply the raw materials?

Robots will do most robot manufacture, and some repair.  There will always be maintenance people, but a 5 man team can keep an entire factory rolling.  Since there is almost no labor demand, their wages won't be that high anyway.  We may be slightly more than a decade away, but I believe we will see significant progress towards this.

You have no idea how many junkyards with over 50,000 tons of scrap steel I have within 100 miles of my house.  Americans have been throwing shit away like crazy for decades.  We also mine quite a bit of various metals.  Yes, there are some resources we lack, but we have a great abundance of energy and arable land.

Getting and processing raw material and certain kind of assembly will not be done by autonomous robots for another decade.
Then all the labour will be in engineering. Tell me why that will not be outsourced.

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
notme
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June 26, 2013, 12:58:39 AM
 #5303

China ain't gonna collapse as long as there are production business left in the western world to out-source. Give it another decade.

In another decade China's exports will have collapsed as American robots and 3D printers lead a resurgence in western manufacturing.  Even China can't beat unpaid labor.
3D Printers are robots.
And who is gonna build the robots? And most importantly who's gonna supply the raw materials?

Robots will do most robot manufacture, and some repair.  There will always be maintenance people, but a 5 man team can keep an entire factory rolling.  Since there is almost no labor demand, their wages won't be that high anyway.  We may be slightly more than a decade away, but I believe we will see significant progress towards this.

You have no idea how many junkyards with over 50,000 tons of scrap steel I have within 100 miles of my house.  Americans have been throwing shit away like crazy for decades.  We also mine quite a bit of various metals.  Yes, there are some resources we lack, but we have a great abundance of energy and arable land.

All the labour will be in engineering. Tell me why that will not be outsourced.

Tell me why it would.  What nation's university system attracts more engineering students than the US?

Also, these guys are already selling product: http://www.rethinkrobotics.com/

You'd better hope your job is harder than what these $22k robots can do with a little training (demonstration by a human, not programming).

Regardless, it doesn't matter who makes them initially.  Manufacturing jobs are going away and manufacturing will occur on a more local basis.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
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June 26, 2013, 12:59:35 AM
 #5304

Tell me why it would.  What nation's university system attracts more engineering students than the US?

Chinas
oh and India.

I think of all people bitcoiners should get what it means that Avalon & Asicminer won the ASIC race.
Also there are cultural reasons of why the US won't become relevant again

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
notme
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June 26, 2013, 01:07:22 AM
 #5305

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-worlds-best-engineering-schools-2012-6?op=1

World's 50 best engineering schools.
I count 8/50 from outside the US.  India did make the list with University of Mumbai at number 41, but I don't see any Chinese institutions.  However I'll give you that this is an English speaking publication, so I invite you to find a source that disagrees.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
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June 26, 2013, 01:14:11 AM
 #5306

Well I can't read Mandarin nor Hindi, so I'll have trouble even looking for one.

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
notme
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June 26, 2013, 01:15:49 AM
 #5307


Just Alex Jones being a fucktard as usually.  Nobody important pays any attention to that guy.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
12jh3odyAAaR2XedPKZNCR4X4sebuotQzN
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June 26, 2013, 01:23:45 AM
 #5308


Just Alex Jones being a fucktard as usually.  Nobody important pays any attention to that guy.

The guy should be granted the title "Most typical US-American" by a committee of Chinese Sociologists. Grin
Seriously for me he's a symbol of many things that went wrong in the US.

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
notme
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June 26, 2013, 01:26:38 AM
 #5309


Just Alex Jones being a fucktard as usually.  Nobody important pays any attention to that guy.

The guy should be granted the title "Most typical US-American" by a committee of Chinese Sociologists. Grin
Seriously for me he's a symbol of many things that went wrong in the US.

I will admit he has an audience, but while loud they are a very small minority.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
12jh3odyAAaR2XedPKZNCR4X4sebuotQzN
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June 26, 2013, 01:39:52 AM
 #5310


Just Alex Jones being a fucktard as usually.  Nobody important pays any attention to that guy.

The guy should be granted the title "Most typical US-American" by a committee of Chinese Sociologists. Grin
Seriously for me he's a symbol of many things that went wrong in the US.

I will admit he has an audience, but while loud they are a very small minority.

It's not really him or his audience which this is about. It is the die hard attitude of the majority in general that will be your downfall.
But thats the problem in Europe too.

But I don't see that as such a bad development, since politics aside it does rise the average living standard world-wide.

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
Frozenlock
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June 26, 2013, 02:45:31 AM
 #5311

Holy Batman!


Silver down 2.87%


Gold down 1.58%


Weeeee!
sidhujag
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June 26, 2013, 03:08:42 AM
 #5312

China ain't gonna collapse as long as there are production business left in the western world to out-source. Give it another decade.

Right and wrong it takes time for a country to wither away esp one which is second biggest financially. However it will be outsourcing to us as long as there is incentive to do so. The minute that american govt outs a tax on china labour to the corporations then itnwill stop. How can they do this? When energu
costs allow them to compete internally as well as competitive exporting. Who wouldnt pay 5% extra for something made in usa or canada?

As energy becomes cheaper through innovation or politics the choice will become available to do so.
notme
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June 26, 2013, 03:14:41 AM
 #5313

China ain't gonna collapse as long as there are production business left in the western world to out-source. Give it another decade.

Right and wrong it takes time for a country to wither away esp one which is second biggest financially. However it will be outsourcing to us as long as there is incentive to do so. The minute that american govt outs a tax on china labour to the corporations then itnwill stop. How can they do this? When energu
costs allow them to compete internally as well as competitive exporting. Who wouldnt pay 5% extra for something made in usa or canada?

As energy becomes cheaper through innovation or politics the choice will become available to do so.

Exactly, energy is key and we are closer than ever to having enough for large scale automation.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
12jh3odyAAaR2XedPKZNCR4X4sebuotQzN
tvbcof
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June 26, 2013, 04:03:25 AM
 #5314

Time to buy more silver but im in myamar Sad

I never thought I'd buy any more silver, but I'm selling some property and just may park some money there at these prices.  Or gold for that matter.  If the property sells quickly and only if I can get the phyzzz of course.  I'll chat with my CPA and find out the tax ramifications since I have plans for the capital relatively soon-ish (by my standards.)


miscreanity
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June 26, 2013, 04:05:11 AM
 #5315

England didn't just go away, but others rose to squeeze out it's dominance.

Who benefits from dropping stocks and bonds?
notme
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June 26, 2013, 04:05:58 AM
 #5316

England didn't just go away, but others rose to squeeze out it's dominance.

Who benefits from dropping stocks and bonds?

Short sellers?

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
12jh3odyAAaR2XedPKZNCR4X4sebuotQzN
sidhujag
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June 26, 2013, 04:18:41 AM
 #5317

China ain't gonna collapse as long as there are production business left in the western world to out-source. Give it another decade.

Right and wrong it takes time for a country to wither away esp one which is second biggest financially. However it will be outsourcing to us as long as there is incentive to do so. The minute that american govt outs a tax on china labour to the corporations then itnwill stop. How can they do this? When energu
costs allow them to compete internally as well as competitive exporting. Who wouldnt pay 5% extra for something made in usa or canada?

As energy becomes cheaper through innovation or politics the choice will become available to do so.

Exactly, energy is key and we are closer than ever to having enough for large scale automation.
Automation may have unitended consequences though.. Higher gdp but
also higher unemployment?
notme
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June 26, 2013, 04:34:41 AM
 #5318

China ain't gonna collapse as long as there are production business left in the western world to out-source. Give it another decade.

Right and wrong it takes time for a country to wither away esp one which is second biggest financially. However it will be outsourcing to us as long as there is incentive to do so. The minute that american govt outs a tax on china labour to the corporations then itnwill stop. How can they do this? When energu
costs allow them to compete internally as well as competitive exporting. Who wouldnt pay 5% extra for something made in usa or canada?

As energy becomes cheaper through innovation or politics the choice will become available to do so.

Exactly, energy is key and we are closer than ever to having enough for large scale automation.
Automation may have unitended consequences though.. Higher gdp but
also higher unemployment?

No, that is very much an intended consequence desired by the companies who implement it.  Mechanical labor is way cheaper and makes it possible to actually manufacture at home.

At least as far back as Adam Smith in 1776, (wage and price) deflation was identified as the outcome of leaps in technological progress.

If you depend on a job that can be automated, I would consider learning to be a mechanic, a programmer, or a hardware designer.

It sucks for those that are unable to be retrained, but when a society chases progress at all costs, this is the cost.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
12jh3odyAAaR2XedPKZNCR4X4sebuotQzN
sidhujag
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June 26, 2013, 04:56:38 AM
 #5319

China ain't gonna collapse as long as there are production business left in the western world to out-source. Give it another decade.

Right and wrong it takes time for a country to wither away esp one which is second biggest financially. However it will be outsourcing to us as long as there is incentive to do so. The minute that american govt outs a tax on china labour to the corporations then itnwill stop. How can they do this? When energu
costs allow them to compete internally as well as competitive exporting. Who wouldnt pay 5% extra for something made in usa or canada?

As energy becomes cheaper through innovation or politics the choice will become available to do so.

Exactly, energy is key and we are closer than ever to having enough for large scale automation.
Automation may have unitended consequences though.. Higher gdp but
also higher unemployment?

No, that is very much an intended consequence desired by the companies who implement it.  Mechanical labor is way cheaper and makes it possible to actually manufacture at home.

At least as far back as Adam Smith in 1776, (wage and price) deflation was identified as the outcome of leaps in technological progress.

If you depend on a job that can be automated, I would consider learning to be a mechanic, a programmer, or a hardware designer.

It sucks for those that are unable to be retrained, but when a society chases progress at all costs, this is the cost.

Yea your right the strongest survive the system grows. Im a programmer myself so im ok but i do think we will see some drastic changes as we are om the hockey stick curve effect of many functions including money growth population water consumption oil consumption and some of these have hard limits. Gonna be interesting to see what direction we take.
tvbcof
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June 26, 2013, 05:21:42 AM
 #5320

Yea your right the strongest survive the system grows. Im a programmer myself so im ok but i do think we will see some drastic changes as we are om the hockey stick curve effect of many functions including money growth population water consumption oil consumption and some of these have hard limits. Gonna be interesting to see what direction we take.

I'm guessing a hot war employing bio-warfare.  I would expect the survivors to be a pretty typical cross-section rather than the 'strongest'.  In spite of automation, a majority of the population being roughly on par with the average of today is probably in the best interest of those who end up with the ability to manipulate their own chances for survival.  Pesky non-aligned folks (like us Bitcoiners) probably won't have a chance...unless there is hope of obtaining our secret keys or something I suppose, but that's a bit of a long-shot...

That said, I think that at least Oceania and Eurasia have plenty of carrying capacity left and are on a trajectory to preserve that for a good long time from the perspective of population growth.  So I would not be surprised if a genuine calamity were some distance out and/or triggered more by convenience and planning than specifically quest for nutrition.


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