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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1940990 times)
paraipan
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October 11, 2013, 08:58:57 AM
 #5761

Congrats cypherdoc, 300 pages is quite impressive trying to make a point

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justusranvier
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October 11, 2013, 01:18:19 PM
 #5762

moarer
Nice
cypherdoc
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October 11, 2013, 01:29:02 PM
 #5763

Gold collapsing. Bitcoin up.
adamstgBit
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October 11, 2013, 01:30:30 PM
 #5764

Gold collapsing. Bitcoin up.

coincidence?
I think NOT!

miscreanity
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October 11, 2013, 02:33:37 PM
 #5765

West duped. East rising.
NewLiberty
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October 11, 2013, 03:11:57 PM
 #5766

Gold is not going up. It's the dollar that's losing value.

If anything in the marketplace should be the yardstick of value, it is gold, not USD. So you should price USD in terms of gold and you will see a very different picture. Don't let the "upward run" of gold deceive you. Gold isn't changing, the dollars are.
Are you kidding me? The gains in Gold the last 10 yrs or so reflect much more than just the inflation, it’s a speculative bubble.


Maybe there is some speculation, but the price collapse is not a bubble popping so much as it is an engineered event.

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1Free of Government
adamstgBit
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October 11, 2013, 03:25:39 PM
 #5767

Gold is not going up. It's the dollar that's losing value.

If anything in the marketplace should be the yardstick of value, it is gold, not USD. So you should price USD in terms of gold and you will see a very different picture. Don't let the "upward run" of gold deceive you. Gold isn't changing, the dollars are.
Are you kidding me? The gains in Gold the last 10 yrs or so reflect much more than just the inflation, it’s a speculative bubble.


Maybe there is some speculation, but the price collapse is not a bubble popping so much as it is an engineered event.

I have to agree with Blitz­  on this one.

their no doubt that gold has been victim of speculation.
If the dollar has lost so much value, why is it virtually all other commodities have not skyrocketed like gold?
sure everything has gotten more expensive in the past ten years, but nothing like gold.
gold price shooting up should be viewed as people predicting/speculating the dollar will fall in value.
gold was hyped to no end.... look around you see buy gold buy gold everywhere.
gold has priced in the next 10 years worth of inflation.

NewLiberty
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October 11, 2013, 03:37:27 PM
 #5768

I have to agree with Blitz­  on this one.

their no doubt that gold has been victim of speculation.
If the dollar has lost so much value, why is it virtually all other commodities have not skyrocketed like gold?
sure everything has gotten more expensive in the past ten years, but nothing like gold.
gold price shooting up should be viewed as people predicting/speculating the dollar will fall in value.
gold was hyped to no end.... look around you see buy gold buy gold everywhere.
gold has priced in the next 10 years worth of inflation.
Speculation, heh heh, you could call it that, but it isn't the normal sort of speculation...
Gold is more manipulated than any other commodity.  It is the only commodity that is classified as a currency by BASEL and the central banks.  They central banks have as a part of their reason for existing, the manipulation of the BASEL listed currencies against each other.  It is the only such currency that is not also a geographically defined one, so it is especially manipulated.  The folks doing this manipulation are many orders of magnitude more monetarily influential than "speculators".

Yes, "hyping" is a bearish indicator.
I am not suggesting that the gold/dollar price is going to rise in any particular timeframe, but I also don't pretend to know what the next 10 years of inflation are going to bring.

The gold price doesn't move by traders buying and selling more than a little, the price moves by central banks and their bullion banks moving it.  The ETFs gave these folks massive leverage power over gold.  The price direction is not for us to say, it is for the generals of the currency war.
The retail market is not the market.

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1Free of Government
adamstgBit
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October 11, 2013, 03:52:32 PM
 #5769

I have to agree with Blitz­  on this one.

their no doubt that gold has been victim of speculation.
If the dollar has lost so much value, why is it virtually all other commodities have not skyrocketed like gold?
sure everything has gotten more expensive in the past ten years, but nothing like gold.
gold price shooting up should be viewed as people predicting/speculating the dollar will fall in value.
gold was hyped to no end.... look around you see buy gold buy gold everywhere.
gold has priced in the next 10 years worth of inflation.
Speculation, heh heh, you could call it that, but it isn't the normal sort of speculation...
Gold is more manipulated than any other commodity.  It is the only commodity that is classified as a currency by BASEL and the central banks.  They central banks have as a part of their reason for existing, the manipulation of the BASEL listed currencies against each other.  It is the only such currency that is not also a geographically defined one, so it is especially manipulated.  The folks doing this manipulation are many orders of magnitude more monetarily influential than "speculators".

Yes, "hyping" is a bearish indicator.
I am not suggesting that the gold/dollar price is going to rise in any particular timeframe, but I also don't pretend to know what the next 10 years of inflation are going to bring.

The gold price doesn't move by traders buying and selling more than a little, the price moves by central banks and their bullion banks moving it.  The ETFs gave these folks massive leverage power over gold.  The price direction is not for us to say, it is for the generals of the currency war.
The retail market is not the market.

the banks can fight the free market all they want...
bitcoin will prevail!
 Cheesy

adamstgBit
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October 11, 2013, 03:55:26 PM
 #5770

Gold is not going up. It's the dollar that's losing value.

If anything in the marketplace should be the yardstick of value, it is gold, not USD. So you should price USD in terms of gold and you will see a very different picture. Don't let the "upward run" of gold deceive you. Gold isn't changing, the dollars are.
Are you kidding me? The gains in Gold the last 10 yrs or so reflect much more than just the inflation, it’s a speculative bubble.


Maybe there is some speculation, but the price collapse is not a bubble popping so much as it is an engineered event.

I have to agree with Blitz­  on this one.

their no doubt that gold has been victim of speculation.
If the dollar has lost so much value, why is it virtually all other commodities have not skyrocketed like gold?
sure everything has gotten more expensive in the past ten years, but nothing like gold.
gold price shooting up should be viewed as people predicting/speculating the dollar will fall in value.
gold was hyped to no end.... look around you see buy gold buy gold everywhere.
gold has priced in the next 10 years worth of inflation.

It appears that gold is pricing in anticipated deflation. Which would be inevitable in the event of a reversal in the trend of U.S. borrowing.

the FED will keep up QE to keep interest rates low, forever, this has nothing to do with government spending

deflation is not an option.

gold corrected is correcting a bubble

just wait till gold starts to price in BITCOIN!  Grin

adamstgBit
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October 11, 2013, 04:08:28 PM
 #5771

i hate gold with a passion.

NewLiberty
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October 11, 2013, 04:14:01 PM
 #5772

i hate gold with a passion.
If you end up with any by tragic accident, I can ease that suffering by taking it off your hands.
Have to keep my refinery well fed.

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1Free of Government
adamstgBit
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October 11, 2013, 04:17:43 PM
 #5773

i hate gold with a passion.
If you end up with any by tragic accident, I can ease that suffering by taking it off your hands.
Have to keep my refinery well fed.

i'll hold you to that

1 small coin for 10BTC

THANK YOU!

 Grin

NewLiberty
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October 11, 2013, 04:22:21 PM
 #5774

1 ozt gold is very close to 10BTC at the moment, so that is the nominal value we are putting on the Gold Bitcoin Specie pieces.
The QR will give the current spot market value as it changes across the years in most currencies.

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1Free of Government
EzCheese
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October 11, 2013, 04:24:16 PM
 #5775

Spot is $1268.1, ouch...  Silver is down as well, time to pick up some bullion soon. Smiley
molecular
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October 12, 2013, 05:17:19 PM
 #5776

1 ozt gold is very close to 10BTC at the moment, so that is the nominal value we are putting on the Gold Bitcoin Specie pieces.
The QR will give the current spot market value as it changes across the years in most currencies.

I'm waiting for the 1 oz 1 BTC gold coin.

PGP key molecular F9B70769 fingerprint 9CDD C0D3 20F8 279F 6BE0  3F39 FC49 2362 F9B7 0769
tvbcof
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October 12, 2013, 05:26:35 PM
 #5777

1 ozt gold is very close to 10BTC at the moment, so that is the nominal value we are putting on the Gold Bitcoin Specie pieces.
The QR will give the current spot market value as it changes across the years in most currencies.

I'm waiting for the 1 oz 1 BTC gold coin.


My target has always been 1kg-Au/BTC.  Even so, I am at this point choosing to liquidate BTC vs. PM's for a variety of reasons when I need cash flow.  Mostly this is because I got overbalanced in BTC several years ago.


vokain
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October 13, 2013, 12:48:25 AM
 #5778

Once we get to 1ozAu/BTC I'd be even more bullish. Black hole scenario? Smiley

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Escape the plutocrats’ zanpakutō, Flower in the Mirror, Moon on the Water: brave “the ascent which is rough and steep” (Plato).
Erdogan
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October 13, 2013, 02:25:12 AM
 #5779

Gold is not going up. It's the dollar that's losing value.

If anything in the marketplace should be the yardstick of value, it is gold, not USD. So you should price USD in terms of gold and you will see a very different picture. Don't let the "upward run" of gold deceive you. Gold isn't changing, the dollars are.
Are you kidding me? The gains in Gold the last 10 yrs or so reflect much more than just the inflation, it’s a speculative bubble.


Maybe there is some speculation, but the price collapse is not a bubble popping so much as it is an engineered event.

I have to agree with Blitz­  on this one.

their no doubt that gold has been victim of speculation.
If the dollar has lost so much value, why is it virtually all other commodities have not skyrocketed like gold?
sure everything has gotten more expensive in the past ten years, but nothing like gold.
gold price shooting up should be viewed as people predicting/speculating the dollar will fall in value.
gold was hyped to no end.... look around you see buy gold buy gold everywhere.
gold has priced in the next 10 years worth of inflation.

It appears that gold is pricing in anticipated deflation. Which would be inevitable in the event of a reversal in the trend of U.S. borrowing.

the FED will keep up QE to keep interest rates low, forever, this has nothing to do with government spending

deflation is not an option.

gold corrected is correcting a bubble

just wait till gold starts to price in BITCOIN!  Grin

Remember, the Fed is not just the Fed.

Through liquidity swaps their tendrils extend throughout the global banking systems. In the event the U.S. debt loads become insufficient to ensure the growth of the balance sheets the CBs will have to find another sink for that debt load if they want to stay in control. Most likely this will be for development projects in Sub-Saharan Africa.

And it will probably take some wars to get those deals done.

I agree with chodpaba and would like to add:

The Fed thinks that they have control, but they are just looking at some statistics without reasoning. This is how deflation could pan out: The market prices the treasury bonds partly on inflation expectation and partly on risk. When the market perceives a higher risk, the interest rate on bonds will go up, and so will the general interest rate in the economy. The response to that will be reduced demand for credit. Since credit is part of the money supply (the main part), this is effectively a reduction of the money supply (money deflation) and will utltimately lead to price deflation of goods and services.

Loss of credit was the essence of the 2008 financial crisis, which was met with grand credit creation. Next time, this may not work. Why? Because currently the Fed buys most of the bonds, and the may have to buy them all next time.

At that point, they will start the physical dollar presses. But the pace of physical dollar printing can not match the current credit creation. New, larger bills will have to be created and produced. In the mean time we will have deflation. I don't doubt that they will manage to print enough in the end.

Of course, we have politician and central banker individuals in the mix, ant they might decide to to a u-turn, define a new backed currency or whatever. But deflation is certainly a possibility.
manfred
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October 13, 2013, 09:49:44 AM
 #5780

That gold and debt chart is since 2000. Anyone have one for the last 100 years?
There is a rough homemade chart, no guaranty for its accuracy. Hope it helps in a way.
Gold was $ 430 in beginning of 1915. $ 430 was a lot of money at that time (Average car was $490 and yearly wage $600).

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