Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[Melbustus]

I still find it funny that people call LTC a scamcoin. What exactly is the "scam"?
...

Of course it's not a "scam", but its benefits are often overstated. I'm all for alt-coin experimentation; just wish there were actually more real experimentation (NMC and maybe PPC are the only ones with real differences). Litecoin's quicker confirms are a moot point, for one thing...there are almost zero applications where an avg confirm of 2.5mins is acceptable where 10mins is not. I still can't buy a cup a coffee. And it doesn't matter that scrypt is asic-resistant. That's not synonymous with "asic-proof"; if ltc ever got valuable enough, asics for it would arise. It's not going to achieve better decentralization because of scrypt.

To me, litecoin is not innovative, and I therefore find it annoying that it's achieved the success it has. I do see some value in that it's a "backup" network to an extent (but, if bitcoin were successfully attacked, most likely the same attackers could hit litecoin too), and there's value in being able to move coins in and out of both chains with some liquidity. But those are 2nd order concerns. Again, I'd like to see more real alt experimentation.


tl;dr - it's not a scam, but it's also not innovative and doesn't offer anything that bitcoin doesn't.

so you like 1oz round gold coins but you dont like 1/2oz square gold coins

No, that's an improper analogy. Comparing round gold coins to square gold coins would be like comparing a bitcoin wallet file on my computer with a bitcoin wallet file on a usb drive.

[1714254426]

1714254426

[Odalv]

Bitcoin is enough. :-) (we do not more coins, just setup Barcelona(hiv, paris, help ...) addresses and  you can vote with Bitcoin)

no sir, for example if I want to donate to red cross bitcoins  I need to buy that bitcoin so I increase the demand of something I dont want, in the other hand if I have red cross coins and I buy that and then donate to red cross I increase the demand of a alt_coin_brand that I am willing to support, the red cross coins wont affect bitcoin on any way so bitcoin opportunist have nothing to gain from my donation to red cross

It is not so easy to run thousands of chains (it costs a lot of resources) ... weak chains are easy to manipulate (with money or with +51% attack)

The only way to build crypto-currentcy is to build STRONG ONE ...
 ( 1.  no one can afford to control 50%+ of mining power, 2. expensive coins(hard to manipulate price), nobody can buy them all (10%) )

[vokain]

It is not so easy to run thousands of chains (it costs a lot of resources) ... weak chains are easy to manipulate (with money or with +51% attack)

The only way to build crypto-currentcy is to build STRONG ONE ...
 ( 1.  no one can afford to control 50%+ of mining power, 2. expensive coins(hard to manipulate price), nobody can buy them all (10%) )

qft

[myself]

unless you already have BTC. what's the difference with USD?

the case of BTC vs red cross coins can be simple, if red cross coins are premined by red cross when you buy the red cross you increase the demand => increase the value  so you help red cross by purchasing the coins and them from  donating them, if the red cross coins are not premined can be set by only by exchange rules and so on  


USD transactions are more expensive that p2p crypto transactions so your donation will generate more revenue for banks

[myself]

The only way to build crypto-currentcy is to build STRONG ONE ...
 ( 1.  no one can afford to control 50%+ of mining power, 2. expensive coins(hard to manipulate price), nobody can buy them all (10%) )

in that case the cap valuation of bitcoin is the total cost to perform a 51% attack-1USD

edit: you dont care about point 2 if you can perform point 1 a currency that cant be used lose its value

[vokain]

The only way to build crypto-currentcy is to build STRONG ONE ...
 ( 1.  no one can afford to control 50%+ of mining power, 2. expensive coins(hard to manipulate price), nobody can buy them all (10%) )

in that case the cap valuation of bitcoin is the total cost to perform a 51% attack-1USD

+ time

[Odalv]

The only way to build crypto-currentcy is to build STRONG ONE ...
 ( 1.  no one can afford to control 50%+ of mining power, 2. expensive coins(hard to manipulate price), nobody can buy them all (10%) )

in that case the cap valuation of bitcoin is the total cost to perform a 51% attack-1USD

edit: you dont care about point 2 if you can perform point 1 a currency that cant be used lose its value

If I'm an investor or ordinary people then this currency is useless. (but great if I'm day trader who spend all his life with trading currencies/commodities all day long .. not useful for 99% of population)

[byronbb]

Apparently gold price at below recovery costs.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-26/gold-drops-below-its-average-cash-cost

[miscreanity]

For the record, if I held DZZ or other good short positions, I would liquidate all of them tomorrow.

[vokain]

Apparently gold price at below recovery costs.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-26/gold-drops-below-its-average-cash-cost

people must really want fiat

For the record, if I held DZZ or other good short positions, I would liquidate all of them tomorrow.

can you be more specific about your time frame here? sure it could have a reaction back up, but how many have money to spare to support higher gold prices?

[miscreanity]

For the record, if I held DZZ or other good short positions, I would liquidate all of them tomorrow.

can you be more specific about your time frame here? sure it could have a reaction back up, but how many have money to spare to support higher gold prices?

Mañana? Before June 28th.

If you think of paper gold as a form of credit, the collapse in prices means that credit is drying up. Nobody wants to lend their asset out anymore.

[notme]

For the record, if I held DZZ or other good short positions, I would liquidate all of them tomorrow.

can you be more specific about your time frame here? sure it could have a reaction back up, but how many have money to spare to support higher gold prices?

Mañana? Before June 28th.

If you think of paper gold as a form of credit, the collapse in prices means that credit is drying up. Nobody wants to lend their asset out anymore.

Okay... paper gold is a form of credit.  So, by selling a claim I own on gold, somehow I'm expressing that I want to hold onto my physical?  How does that work?  Aren't the lenders having their locked up assets returned to a liquid position, thus raising physical supply?

[myself]

Okay... paper gold is a form of credit.  So, by selling a claim I own on gold, somehow I'm expressing that I want to hold onto my physical?  How does that work?  Aren't the lenders having their locked up assets returned to a liquid position, thus raising physical supply?

is a future contract for 100 OZ of gold

[vokain]

For the record, if I held DZZ or other good short positions, I would liquidate all of them tomorrow.

can you be more specific about your time frame here? sure it could have a reaction back up, but how many have money to spare to support higher gold prices?

Mañana? Before June 28th.

If you think of paper gold as a form of credit, the collapse in prices means that credit is drying up. Nobody wants to lend their asset out anymore.

To clarify my question, do you mean it is wise to go long on gold? And for how long?

[miscreanity]

Okay... paper gold is a form of credit.  So, by selling a claim I own on gold, somehow I'm expressing that I want to hold onto my physical?  How does that work?  Aren't the lenders having their locked up assets returned to a liquid position, thus raising physical supply?

Passing a claim on to the next trader is a hot potato scenario. Redeeming  those claims for physical would be like a bank calling in outstanding loans.

Any other asset would simply stick the holder with an item that would have to be traded, i.e. less liquid. Gold is effectively cash when other forms of money fail to maintain that purpose.

While the dollar still works fine for the average person, it is not for kings (institutional class entities). Gold is returning to a metric of value among the largest pools of wealth, and therefore increased liquidity.

Edit: corrected hot potato reference.

[sidhujag]

For the record, if I held DZZ or other good short positions, I would liquidate all of them tomorrow.

can you be more specific about your time frame here? sure it could have a reaction back up, but how many have money to spare to support higher gold prices?

Mañana? Before June 28th.

If you think of paper gold as a form of credit, the collapse in prices means that credit is drying up. Nobody wants to lend their asset out anymore.

Okay... paper gold is a form of credit.  So, by selling a claim I own on gold, somehow I'm expressing that I want to hold onto my physical?  How does that work?  Aren't the lenders having their locked up assets returned to a liquid position, thus raising physical supply?

Miners are the only ones who will hedge their physical supply before they go in the market and actually sell it. This is a general commodity notion used to ensure that volatility does not affect profit and numbers are known ahead of the sale. Problem is that now most of the trades are not backed at all and are leveraged. JPM doesn't even have gold backing for its multi-billion dollar short sales of paper gold, its inventories are depleted yet it continues to put on firesales with no backing. Another issue is that before you actually intend to hedge your physical supply you must let the broker know you intend to hedge based on physical supply so you are matched against someone who wants to buy physically, or the bank is forced to take physical delivery if they are the market maker. This is kind of odd behaviour for a market which will puts extra checks in to the trader who owns the gold so they can make special arrangements for this person when the market was created for intentions of buying/selling physical commodities and not "paper" commodities. The "paper" commodities is said to create liquidity allowing physical to get better pricing, but to me is doesn't add up, as alot of hte times a big order is front-ran as soon ppl find out there is phyiscal order they become the market maker for that order making profit by placing a trade as the order is being placed.

If a big trader or company comes in to the market buying with intentions of physical delivery, more than what the inventory exists for that bank then this where the problem lies. The fact that ppl have been requesting their gold inventories and yet jpm still behaves like a 5 yr old child baffles me... but then again they have the gov't in their back pocket so there's nothing to see move along. I love the lassiez-faire attitude that these criminals have knowing that nothign will be done and even the fact that nothing is wrong.

[cypherdoc]

For the record, if I held DZZ or other good short positions, I would liquidate all of them tomorrow.

must be some sort of subliminal capitulation 

[smoothie]

The blood in the markets is accelerating....be greedy remember when it gets really really bad.

[Frozenlock]

The blood in the markets is accelerating.

Where?

[smoothie]

The blood in the markets is accelerating.

Where?

Commodities....