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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1804007 times)
Dusty
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May 25, 2013, 05:34:26 PM
 #5021

I thought those were interesting points so I wrote them up for you guys to maybe discuss some.
Thank you for your effort molecular, it has been very appreciated (by me, at least).

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May 25, 2013, 06:38:10 PM
 #5022

Of all the threads on the forums I think I like to follow this one the most. I firmly believe one should be diversified into physical at this point in time to protect ones fiat purchasing power longer-term. With that said, I also firmly believe that 1BTC = 1oz Au within two years, which opens the door to an entirely new paradigm.

Keep that printing going boys, tis good for the BTC.
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May 25, 2013, 07:02:03 PM
 #5023

I thought those were interesting points so I wrote them up for you guys to maybe discuss some.
Thank you for your effort molecular, it has been very appreciated (by me, at least).

Seconded. Some powerful points, not the last of which is establishment of a fiat global currency. Like gold, fiat isn't going to simply disappear overnight.

The natural resources acquisitions have been moving along for almost a decade now. That whole decoupling trend from a while back hasn't stopped.

It's a global game of Chinese checkers.
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May 25, 2013, 09:27:09 PM
 #5024

The reasoning by which he concluded the global reserve currency would be fiat seems faulty: governments are not an aggregate blob; each one has its own interests. No single government wants to give up its fiat control, but even less do they want to use another country's fiat. They will use gold (or maybe someday bitcoins).
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May 25, 2013, 10:22:57 PM
 #5025

The reasoning by which he concluded the global reserve currency would be fiat seems faulty: governments are not an aggregate blob; each one has its own interests. No single government wants to give up its fiat control, but even less do they want to use another country's fiat. They will use gold (or maybe someday bitcoins).


You so sure about that? Remember how easy it was for the banksters to convince a whole bunch of countries in Europe to adopt the Euro...  Grin
If major fiat currencies collapse, it will be a piece of cake for banksters to get their politician cronies to enact legislation supporting a "Eartho"  Tongue

Edit: Hopefully they pick an even stupider name.
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BTC Up or Down? go to www.bullbearanalytics.com


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May 26, 2013, 08:59:10 AM
 #5026

Just watched an interesting "goldmoney" interview with Erik Townsend.

With Bitcoin in mind listening to the first 15 or so minutes can be quite exciting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhmmvCgRiew

The rest is also interesting (more about energy / resources / china).

Here are some of the points Mr. Townsends makes:

About USD / EUR / JEN collapse:

  • The fears many people have about the USD collapsing are based on well-founded concerns, but those things are going to happen to Europe and Japan first.
  • This will result in capital flight into the USD
  • This in turn will enable US govt/fed to print more
  • The ultimate consequences of this will be horrific for the United States

About what might happen next in global currency space:

  • There will likely be a new global reserve currency replacing the USD everyone will be forced to use in international trade and new power will go to the new global reserve bankers.
  • Mechanisms by which people will be forced to convert USD->new world currency at unfavorable rates will be interesting to see.
  • Although he doesn't like it, Townsend thinks it will surely be a fiat currency
  • Why fiat? Because a sound money (gold) standard would take power from the governments and they wont give up that power and especially in the US the people are cheering the government so there wont be a revolution that would be necessary to make govt give up power.

about US / russia / china / gold / cold war:

  • Russia/China are buying physical (not only gold, but other resources they would have to buy from the west as well)
  • Townsend thinks what we're seeing is the early stages of the 500 year east-west power cycle reversing with asia being the next hegemonial superpower.
  • There will be a cold war between China and US
  • China is preparing for USD collapse (gold is hedge)
  • China is preparing for collapse of commerce with west by stockpiling coal, gold, copper,...

about energy / US protectionism

  • US might decouple US oil from free market, creating a world in which US pay $80 / barrel and the free market (rest of world) pay $200/barrel
  • This protectionism would bring on trade wars and other international tensions
  • Even if North America (incl. Canada) was able to achieve energy independence consider that this would mean that the rest of the world would no longer trade oil in USD and therefor the US would lose its "exorbitant privilege" (breakdown of petrodollar system -> higher US interest rates -> US bond and currency crisis).
  • Hence the idea of everything getting better because of (unlikely) US energy independence is not accurate.

I thought those were interesting points so I wrote them up for you guys to maybe discuss some.



most of this is going to happen

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May 26, 2013, 10:37:05 AM
 #5027

Just watched an interesting "goldmoney" interview with Erik Townsend.

With Bitcoin in mind listening to the first 15 or so minutes can be quite exciting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhmmvCgRiew

The rest is also interesting (more about energy / resources / china).

Here are some of the points Mr. Townsends makes:

About USD / EUR / JEN collapse:

  • The fears many people have about the USD collapsing are based on well-founded concerns, but those things are going to happen to Europe and Japan first.
  • This will result in capital flight into the USD
  • This in turn will enable US govt/fed to print more
  • The ultimate consequences of this will be horrific for the United States

About what might happen next in global currency space:

  • There will likely be a new global reserve currency replacing the USD everyone will be forced to use in international trade and new power will go to the new global reserve bankers.
  • Mechanisms by which people will be forced to convert USD->new world currency at unfavorable rates will be interesting to see.
  • Although he doesn't like it, Townsend thinks it will surely be a fiat currency
  • Why fiat? Because a sound money (gold) standard would take power from the governments and they wont give up that power and especially in the US the people are cheering the government so there wont be a revolution that would be necessary to make govt give up power.

about US / russia / china / gold / cold war:

  • Russia/China are buying physical (not only gold, but other resources they would have to buy from the west as well)
  • Townsend thinks what we're seeing is the early stages of the 500 year east-west power cycle reversing with asia being the next hegemonial superpower.
  • There will be a cold war between China and US
  • China is preparing for USD collapse (gold is hedge)
  • China is preparing for collapse of commerce with west by stockpiling coal, gold, copper,...

about energy / US protectionism

  • US might decouple US oil from free market, creating a world in which US pay $80 / barrel and the free market (rest of world) pay $200/barrel
  • This protectionism would bring on trade wars and other international tensions
  • Even if North America (incl. Canada) was able to achieve energy independence consider that this would mean that the rest of the world would no longer trade oil in USD and therefor the US would lose its "exorbitant privilege" (breakdown of petrodollar system -> higher US interest rates -> US bond and currency crisis).
  • Hence the idea of everything getting better because of (unlikely) US energy independence is not accurate.

I thought those were interesting points so I wrote them up for you guys to maybe discuss some.


A very good post.
The only one world currency everyone could possible agree one is Energy. So instead of having an Gold Standard it will be a "Joule Standard". It can not be manipulated, is constant and is everywhere the same. (same energy released if the apple falls in china or new york to the ground)  It means every country keeps its national currency but its base is the Joule. Same with Gold, Silver or anything else its all based on a JOULE.
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May 26, 2013, 05:32:44 PM
 #5028

most of this is going to happen happening now

Smiley
molecular
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May 28, 2013, 09:42:39 PM
 #5029

Just watched an interesting "goldmoney" interview with Erik Townsend.

With Bitcoin in mind listening to the first 15 or so minutes can be quite exciting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhmmvCgRiew

The rest is also interesting (more about energy / resources / china).

Here are some of the points Mr. Townsends makes:

About USD / EUR / JEN collapse:

  • The fears many people have about the USD collapsing are based on well-founded concerns, but those things are going to happen to Europe and Japan first.
  • This will result in capital flight into the USD
  • This in turn will enable US govt/fed to print more
  • The ultimate consequences of this will be horrific for the United States

About what might happen next in global currency space:

  • There will likely be a new global reserve currency replacing the USD everyone will be forced to use in international trade and new power will go to the new global reserve bankers.
  • Mechanisms by which people will be forced to convert USD->new world currency at unfavorable rates will be interesting to see.
  • Although he doesn't like it, Townsend thinks it will surely be a fiat currency
  • Why fiat? Because a sound money (gold) standard would take power from the governments and they wont give up that power and especially in the US the people are cheering the government so there wont be a revolution that would be necessary to make govt give up power.

about US / russia / china / gold / cold war:

  • Russia/China are buying physical (not only gold, but other resources they would have to buy from the west as well)
  • Townsend thinks what we're seeing is the early stages of the 500 year east-west power cycle reversing with asia being the next hegemonial superpower.
  • There will be a cold war between China and US
  • China is preparing for USD collapse (gold is hedge)
  • China is preparing for collapse of commerce with west by stockpiling coal, gold, copper,...

about energy / US protectionism

  • US might decouple US oil from free market, creating a world in which US pay $80 / barrel and the free market (rest of world) pay $200/barrel
  • This protectionism would bring on trade wars and other international tensions
  • Even if North America (incl. Canada) was able to achieve energy independence consider that this would mean that the rest of the world would no longer trade oil in USD and therefor the US would lose its "exorbitant privilege" (breakdown of petrodollar system -> higher US interest rates -> US bond and currency crisis).
  • Hence the idea of everything getting better because of (unlikely) US energy independence is not accurate.

I thought those were interesting points so I wrote them up for you guys to maybe discuss some.



most of this is going to happen

lmao. I'm starting to like that dude, Townsend.

In a follow-up kind-of interview with elisa johnson he reiterates the above points and when asked why he thinks a global currency was a bad idea states that this would at some point mean even bigger state than we have now. However he then talks about possibilities of technology towards more direct forms of democracy (non-representative) and - lo and behold - talks about the elite fearing bitcoin as something they can't let happen. So it seems he sees bitcoin as a tool for the people to take back some of the power, a good thing in his mind.

Very strange taken the fact the he started out telling us a global currency was not a good idea. But I guess he meant a "global fiat currency" as he stated in the previous interview. Even weirder that he is convinced the new global currency will be fiat taken he knows about bitcoin and its potential.

but listen for yourself (about 2-3 minutes from linked time):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=e97T0Bfex5A#t=930s

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miscreanity
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May 29, 2013, 12:45:17 AM
 #5030

In a follow-up kind-of interview with elisa johnson he reiterates the above points and when asked why he thinks a global currency was a bad idea states that this would at some point mean even bigger state than we have now. However he then talks about possibilities of technology towards more direct forms of democracy (non-representative) and - lo and behold - talks about the elite fearing bitcoin as something they can't let happen. So it seems he sees bitcoin as a tool for the people to take back some of the power, a good thing in his mind.

Very strange taken the fact the he started out telling us a global currency was not a good idea. But I guess he meant a "global fiat currency" as he stated in the previous interview. Even weirder that he is convinced the new global currency will be fiat taken he knows about bitcoin and its potential.

but listen for yourself (about 2-3 minutes from linked time):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=e97T0Bfex5A#t=930s

Great how Bitcoin came up naturally as a relevant topic.

Townsend described a global fiat currency as a Hail Mary play, so I think he looks at that as a doomed effort to be quickly replaced by social structures built upon modern technologies.
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May 29, 2013, 01:35:10 AM
 #5031

Small Memorial day pull-back from the top of the recent rally does not even matter when you look at how
BTC is pwning Gold!!!

the silverbox update (comparison from the beginning of this thread, March 13th, 2012, gold=1690, nasdaq=3055, Bitcoin=5.4):
Bitcoin is 129.57.  Gold is 1386.00.  Nasdaq is 3488.00
Bitcoin: 2299.44%
Gold:    -17.99%
Nasdaq:  14.17%
Gold Diff:  2826% advantage Bitcoin
Nasdaq Diff:  2002% advantage Bitcoin[/b][/size]
BitcoinAshley
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May 29, 2013, 04:19:09 AM
 #5032

Small Memorial day pull-back from the top of the recent rally does not even matter when you look at how
BTC is pwning Gold!!!

the silverbox update (comparison from the beginning of this thread, March 13th, 2012, gold=1690, nasdaq=3055, Bitcoin=5.4):
Bitcoin is 129.57.  Gold is 1386.00.  Nasdaq is 3488.00
Bitcoin: 2299.44%
Gold:    -17.99%
Nasdaq:  14.17%
Gold Diff:  2826% advantage Bitcoin
Nasdaq Diff:  2002% advantage Bitcoin[/b][/size]


So... Gold collapsing, Bitcoin UP?  Grin Grin Grin
joesmoe2012
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May 29, 2013, 04:36:54 AM
 #5033

Small Memorial day pull-back from the top of the recent rally does not even matter when you look at how
BTC is pwning Gold!!!

the silverbox update (comparison from the beginning of this thread, March 13th, 2012, gold=1690, nasdaq=3055, Bitcoin=5.4):
Bitcoin is 129.57.  Gold is 1386.00.  Nasdaq is 3488.00
Bitcoin: 2299.44%
Gold:    -17.99%
Nasdaq:  14.17%
Gold Diff:  2826% advantage Bitcoin
Nasdaq Diff:  2002% advantage Bitcoin[/b][/size]

great....Only problem is that means BTC is way over valued at the moment, it's gone haywire against notably one of the most stable metals on earth.

molecular
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May 29, 2013, 06:17:50 AM
 #5034

Small Memorial day pull-back from the top of the recent rally does not even matter when you look at how
BTC is pwning Gold!!!

the silverbox update (comparison from the beginning of this thread, March 13th, 2012, gold=1690, nasdaq=3055, Bitcoin=5.4):
Bitcoin is 129.57.  Gold is 1386.00.  Nasdaq is 3488.00
Bitcoin: 2299.44%
Gold:    -17.99%
Nasdaq:  14.17%
Gold Diff:  2826% advantage Bitcoin
Nasdaq Diff:  2002% advantage Bitcoin[/b][/size]

great....Only problem is that means BTC is way over valued at the moment, it's gone haywire against notably one of the most stable metals on earth.

Funny how I was just postponing my planned metal purchase (via BTC) again because I still think BTC is way undervalued compared to gold.

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May 29, 2013, 06:20:57 AM
 #5035

And when all these bubbles explode, cash will be king.

which cash?

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Frozenlock
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May 29, 2013, 06:26:47 AM
 #5036

And when all these bubbles explode, cash will be king.

which cash?


Probably USD, as most debts are in this currency.

Brilliantly explained here by Cypherdoc: Gold: I smell a trap.
molecular
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May 29, 2013, 07:16:53 AM
 #5037

Small Memorial day pull-back from the top of the recent rally does not even matter when you look at how
BTC is pwning Gold!!!

the silverbox update (comparison from the beginning of this thread, March 13th, 2012, gold=1690, nasdaq=3055, Bitcoin=5.4):
Bitcoin is 129.57.  Gold is 1386.00.  Nasdaq is 3488.00
Bitcoin: 2299.44%
Gold:    -17.99%
Nasdaq:  14.17%
Gold Diff:   2826% advantage Bitcoin
Nasdaq Diff:  2002% advantage Bitcoin[/b][/size]

great....Only problem is that means BTC is way over valued at the moment, it's gone haywire against notably one of the most stable metals on earth.

Funny how I was just postponing my planned metal purchase (via BTC) again because I still think BTC is way undervalued compared to gold.


ROFL!!! Bitcoin is way overvalued! Never heard more ludicrous statement. Bitcoin has never yet been overvalued since the inception, except perhaps for a few weeks or even days, couple of times, and even then only for those who cannot see beyond the next month or two.

I made some transaction very recently and I feel quite bad because I KNOW how unbelievably undervalued Bitcoin is. But my wife approves, she thinks a little diversification is a good thing.




Lol, for a second there I thought we disagreed. After seeing who you were, I double-checked and discovered you had answered to the previous poster.

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Bitcoin: The honey badger of currencies


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May 29, 2013, 09:30:37 AM
 #5038

And when all these bubbles explode, cash will be king.

which cash?


Probably USD, as most debts are in this currency.

Brilliantly explained here by Cypherdoc: Gold: I smell a trap.

Interesting that he was choosing the corner at that time, but I think his explanation isnt as clear as it could be. The issue I believe (and I believe Cypher now agrees with me... pls correct me if I'm wrong) is that there is a divergence between the price of ETF's and physical bullion.

Bro, do you even blockchain?
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May 29, 2013, 10:33:44 PM
 #5039

And when all these bubbles explode, cash will be king.

which cash?


Probably USD, as most debts are in this currency.

Brilliantly explained here by Cypherdoc: Gold: I smell a trap.

Ah that inflationairy junk?

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May 31, 2013, 07:10:26 PM
 #5040

Gold down.  Bitcoin steady.
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