Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[cypherdoc]

...or am I just getting trolled here? (not kidding).

There's plenty of money available to anyone willing to sell their services to the highest bidder.

Bitcoin threatens the interests of many entities, and those interests will have no difficulty whatsoever finding mercenaries to serve them for a buck.

They are also pretty good at what they do: https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/

There is no question that the psyops have been here since at least 2011 and especially at Reddit over the last year. you can tell who they are oftentimes and my favorite counter attack is to ask them why they're spending so much  of their supposed valuable time on a forum trying to convince others not to use bitcoin. any self respecting individual would doing other more productive things you'd think. unless they're being paid to troll of course. usually that will shut them up or bring out some hypocrisy. 

[cypherdoc]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterdiamandis/2014/06/23/my-insights-on-bitcoin-going-from-deceptive-to-disruptive/

Page 444: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=68655.msg7458468#msg7458468

which part is more intriguing; the article or the Netagio ad that precedes it?

[cypherdoc]

...or am I just getting trolled here? (not kidding).

There's plenty of money available to anyone willing to sell their services to the highest bidder.

Bitcoin threatens the interests of many entities, and those interests will have no difficulty whatsoever finding mercenaries to serve them for a buck.

They are also pretty good at what they do: https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/

everyone's getting into the act:

http://www.techspot.com/news/57162-busted-microsoft-hired-agency-paying-bloggers-to-write-pro-ie-posts.html

[Melbustus]

...
...or am I just getting trolled here? (not kidding).

Ok, I figured it out. Here are some quotes from Wendell, from the following interview: https://soundcloud.com/epicenterbitcoin/eb22

[1:45]
I...got a little bit obsessed with bitcoin starting in 2009...

Well, I mean, the unfortunate part is that I simply followed it as a curiosity, and not not so much as like oh well this is a great investment opportunity.
...
So I missed an opportunity to be one of those guys who like, you know, 300,000+ or what have you. But...I, you know, just didn't have the vision, I suppose, to see that it would really become something real.

[3:25]
I didn't think for a minute that it would actually be successful.

There it is... No matter what he's consciously/sub-consciously convinced himself in the last 5 years about whether or not bitcoin deserves to have most of the crypto value, the fact that he so thoroughly missed the boat has gotta eat at him. He was one of the few lucky enough to be on Metz-Dowd in 2009 and actually see the discussion as it happened. He had the technical know-how and intellectual curiosity to appreciate it. Yet he didn't act. He could've been set for life. He's an entrepreneur - he could've self-funded whatever projects truly interested him... Or he could've launched his own fund... The scale of that regret has got to bother him, so he's constructed this weird belief system to negate it. It probably happened slowly and sub-consciously over time, which means it's really ingrained.

It's funny, I got the sense from his response to me that he was fighting another battle, and was pissed about something else. That sentence of his where he f-bombed was just too needlessly aggressive and vengeful to make any sense in context. Now I understand him a little better.

[cypherdoc]

That is a logical comment that would work in a logical world ... but the world is currently run by crusty old men (think: cheney) who are no longer (or never were) attractive to young women, and who only get female attention (read: pussy) by spending money. These sociopathic, otherwise irrelevant old men should be put out to pasture so they can spend time with their grandkids, but because they believe they still have some relevance, they persist in trying to run/ruin the world. They should be euthanized. Ask a 20 year old male if he would instantly add 40 years to his life in exchange for $10M and he would tell you to go fuck yourself. No one wants to be old.

that's actually  an optimistic thought; i mean the parts about the 20 year old and the euthanasia.

i actually saw that guy last night on a TV preview for his upcoming Charlie Rose interview. seeing that privileged arrogant attitude and hearing his lack of remorse once again brought that long repressed feeling of anger and nausea that i used to get every time i had to hear him justify yet further intrusions into the middle east. you're too kind; that guy ought to be strung up from a tree for all the death, destruction, and expense he racked up. look at Iraq now...

[cypherdoc]

...
...or am I just getting trolled here? (not kidding).

Ok, I figured it out. Here are some quotes from Wendell, from the following interview: https://soundcloud.com/epicenterbitcoin/eb22

[1:45]
I...got a little bit obsessed with bitcoin starting in 2009...

Well, I mean, the unfortunate part is that I simply followed it as a curiosity, and not not so much as like oh well this is a great investment opportunity.
...
So I missed an opportunity to be one of those guys who like, you know, 300,000+ or what have you. But...I, you know, just didn't have the vision, I suppose, to see that it would really become something real.

[3:25]
I didn't think for a minute that it would actually be successful.

There it is... No matter what he's consciously/sub-consciously convinced himself in the last 5 years about whether or not bitcoin deserves to have most of the crypto value, the fact that he so thoroughly missed the boat has gotta eat at him. He was one of the few lucky enough to be on Metz-Dowd in 2009 and actually see the discussion as it happened. He had the technical know-how and intellectual curiosity to appreciate it. Yet he didn't act. He could've been set for life. He's an entrepreneur - he could've self-funded whatever projects truly interested him... Or he could've launched his own fund... The scale of that regret has got to bother him, so he's constructed this weird belief system to negate it. It probably happened slowly and sub-consciously over time, which means it's really ingrained.

It's funny, I got the sense from his response to me that he was fighting another battle, and was pissed about something else. That sentence of his where he f-bombed was just too needlessly aggressive and vengeful to make any sense in context. Now I understand him a little better.

he's not alone.

 look at Adam Back and Austin Hill. Adam invented the concept of POW yet he admittedly didn't get Bitcoin and never got in. now he's trying to use his influence to make up for it with sidechains which by all initial indications requires a change to the main protocol. they claim it doesn't but I'll bet there's at least some ugly hack required that allows it to function. we'll see.

anyone who has a stake in Bitcoin has to be suspicious of anyone who has a low to no stake wanting to change the protocol especially when they're operating a for profit company with core devs (gmax and Luke) who aren't drawing a paycheck yet from Bitcoin.

[justusranvier]

everyone's getting into the act:

http://www.techspot.com/news/57162-busted-microsoft-hired-agency-paying-bloggers-to-write-pro-ie-posts.html

Paid trolling/astroturfing is a thriving industry. It's part of the reason the net sucks so much right now.

[justusranvier]

look at Adam Back and Austin Hill. Adam invented the concept of POW yet he admittedly didn't get Bitcoin and never got in. now he's trying to use his influence to make up for it with sidechains which by all initial indications requires a change to the main protocol. they claim it doesn't but I'll bet there's at least some ugly hack required that allows it to function. we'll see.

anyone who has a stake in Bitcoin has to be suspicious of anyone who has a low to no stake wanting to change the protocol especially when they're operating a for profit company with core devs (gmax and Luke) who aren't drawing a paycheck yet from Bitcoin.

The best case scenario is that sidechains needs a few new opcodes to function, and the sidechains concept is just a decoy to get those opcodes into the protocol, and those opcodes turn out to be highly desirable for creating enhancing the privacy/fungibility of Bitcoin. The good kind of Trojan Horse.

On the other hand, those opcodes could be a the bad kind of Trojan Horse too.

[cypherdoc]

look at Adam Back and Austin Hill. Adam invented the concept of POW yet he admittedly didn't get Bitcoin and never got in. now he's trying to use his influence to make up for it with sidechains which by all initial indications requires a change to the main protocol. they claim it doesn't but I'll bet there's at least some ugly hack required that allows it to function. we'll see.

anyone who has a stake in Bitcoin has to be suspicious of anyone who has a low to no stake wanting to change the protocol especially when they're operating a for profit company with core devs (gmax and Luke) who aren't drawing a paycheck yet from Bitcoin.

The best case scenario is that sidechains needs a few new opcodes to function, and the sidechains concept is just a decoy to get those opcodes into the protocol, and those opcodes turn out to be highly desirable for creating enhancing the privacy/fungibility of Bitcoin. The good kind of Trojan Horse.

On the other hand, those opcodes could be a the bad kind of Trojan Horse too.

how badly can fuck ups in the scripting language (new OP codes) screw up functionality in the main protocol?  i've heard that one or more of the recent new OP codes required an "ugly hack" to the main protocol to allow them to function properly?

[cypherdoc]

once again, fungibility is paramount:

"but, for now, a legally-orchestrated sale of bitcoin assets demonstrates that a bitcoin is a bitcoin is a bitcoin."

"None of these statements carry any indication that the USMS or the Department of Justice view these coins to be ‘legally different’ or ‘subject to special treatment’ by exchanges and market participants. Conversely, the USMS is attempting to maximize its return of the sale of these bitcoin assets by specifically not disrupting their implied fungibility."

http://www.coindesk.com/government-sale-bitcoin-establishes-fungibility-precedent/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+CoinDesk+%28CoinDesk+-+The+Voice+of+Digital+Currency%29

[justusranvier]

how badly can fuck ups in the scripting language (new OP codes) screw up functionality in the main protocol?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG1qooBzE2w#t=2m26s

[Adrian-x]

how badly can fuck ups in the scripting language (new OP codes) screw up functionality in the main protocol?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG1qooBzE2w#t=2m26s

LOL’ed at the YouTube vid, I don’t think I ever watched it to the end.

I was quite shocked to see  Trace Mayer punting side chains https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut65i7Mrvyc,
I can’t wait for  BTCd and i think Andreas Antonopoulos’s prediction that there will be too many vested interests soon to effectively change the Bitcoin protocol, this gives me some sense of surety.
http://youtu.be/2Vrm0EWUpds?t=16m32s
http://youtu.be/4WHWB-02bCs?t=4m40s

For the rest this Bitcoin experiment has become highly politicized, so what comes next?

[cypherdoc]

how badly can fuck ups in the scripting language (new OP codes) screw up functionality in the main protocol?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG1qooBzE2w#t=2m26s

damn it!

lol, not only did that guy steal my verb (Zhoutonged-yes it's not a name), he stole my strategy!

[cypherdoc]

how badly can fuck ups in the scripting language (new OP codes) screw up functionality in the main protocol?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG1qooBzE2w#t=2m26s

LOL’ed at the YouTube vid, I don’t think I ever watched it to the end.

I was quite shocked to see  Trace Mayer punting side chains https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut65i7Mrvyc,
I can’t wait for  BTCd and i think Andreas Antonopoulos’s prediction that there will be too many vested interests soon to effectively change the Bitcoin protocol, this gives me some sense of surety.
http://youtu.be/2Vrm0EWUpds?t=16m32s
http://youtu.be/4WHWB-02bCs?t=4m40s

For the rest this Bitcoin experiment has become highly politicized, so what comes next?

yeah, i was surprised at Trace too.

well, he was a late comer to the game.  he didn't show up in this thread until 2012 and as a follower of his RuntoGold blog, he admitted he missed it at first back in 2010 or so but picked it up for real i think in 2012 when he showed up here.

[Melbustus]

how badly can fuck ups in the scripting language (new OP codes) screw up functionality in the main protocol?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG1qooBzE2w#t=2m26s

LOL’ed at the YouTube vid, I don’t think I ever watched it to the end.

I was quite shocked to see  Trace Mayer punting side chains https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut65i7Mrvyc,
I can’t wait for  BTCd and i think Andreas Antonopoulos’s prediction that there will be too many vested interests soon to effectively change the Bitcoin protocol, this gives me some sense of surety.
http://youtu.be/2Vrm0EWUpds?t=16m32s
http://youtu.be/4WHWB-02bCs?t=4m40s

For the rest this Bitcoin experiment has become highly politicized, so what comes next?

yeah, i was surprised at Trace too.

well, he was a late comer to the game.  he didn't show up in this thread until 2012 and as a follower of his RuntoGold blog, he admitted he missed it at first back in 2010 or so but picked it up for real i think in 2012 when he showed up here.

Doesn't he say he first started actively recommending (maybe he's stretching that) bitcoin to people at $0.05 - $0.25? That'd have to be late 2010 or early 2011...

Sidenote: Looks like he got www.runtobitcoin.com redirecting...

[cypherdoc]

how badly can fuck ups in the scripting language (new OP codes) screw up functionality in the main protocol?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG1qooBzE2w#t=2m26s

LOL’ed at the YouTube vid, I don’t think I ever watched it to the end.

I was quite shocked to see  Trace Mayer punting side chains https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut65i7Mrvyc,
I can’t wait for  BTCd and i think Andreas Antonopoulos’s prediction that there will be too many vested interests soon to effectively change the Bitcoin protocol, this gives me some sense of surety.
http://youtu.be/2Vrm0EWUpds?t=16m32s
http://youtu.be/4WHWB-02bCs?t=4m40s

For the rest this Bitcoin experiment has become highly politicized, so what comes next?

yeah, i was surprised at Trace too.

well, he was a late comer to the game.  he didn't show up in this thread until 2012 and as a follower of his RuntoGold blog, he admitted he missed it at first back in 2010 or so but picked it up for real i think in 2012 when he showed up here.

Doesn't he say he first started actively recommending (maybe he's stretching that) bitcoin to people at $0.05 - $0.25? That'd have to be late 2010 or early 2011...

Sidenote: Looks like he got www.runtobitcoin.com redirecting...

see here:

http://www.runtogold.com/2011/06/what-is-bitcoin/

so we know sometime after June 14, 2011.

don't get me wrong.  i like Trace and i consider him a friend.  he knows what he's talking about (except for Sidechains and gold ) and he is one of the best to articulate it.  he's one of our best advocates and he gets around.  i followed him when i was a goldbug btwn 2005 and when i dumped in 2011.  i think he should've won the seat for the BF last year.  he also knows how to pound on ppl which i admire.

i'm just settin' the record straight.

[majamalu]

...
...or am I just getting trolled here? (not kidding).

Ok, I figured it out. Here are some quotes from Wendell, from the following interview: https://soundcloud.com/epicenterbitcoin/eb22

[1:45]
I...got a little bit obsessed with bitcoin starting in 2009...

Well, I mean, the unfortunate part is that I simply followed it as a curiosity, and not not so much as like oh well this is a great investment opportunity.
...
So I missed an opportunity to be one of those guys who like, you know, 300,000+ or what have you. But...I, you know, just didn't have the vision, I suppose, to see that it would really become something real.

[3:25]
I didn't think for a minute that it would actually be successful.

Bingo! Good catch.

[cypherdoc]

hey FNG,

you oughta listen to this talk by Wences.  he compares and contrasts Bitcoin with gold extensively.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NERAN-89j8M&feature=youtu.be

it's a great take on how money is simply memory as outlined in this paper by the Fed's Kocherlakota:

http://www.minneapolisfed.org/research/sr/sr218.pdf

Wences makes one small mistake in the talk, however, when he said that he'd rather take a bitcoin that hadn't touched Silk Road.  well, after tomorrow, that is a non-issue.

[FNG]

hey FNG,

you oughta listen to this talk by Wences.  he compares and contrasts Bitcoin with gold extensively.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NERAN-89j8M&feature=youtu.be

it's a great take on how money is simply memory as outlined in this paper by the Fed's Kocherlakota:

http://www.minneapolisfed.org/research/sr/sr218.pdf

Wences makes one small mistake in the talk, however, when he said that he'd rather take a bitcoin that hadn't touched Silk Road.  well, after tomorrow, that is a non-issue.

Cheers. I'll give it a listen later today.

More noteworthy news  http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-26/gazprom-ready-drop-dollar-settle-china-contracts-yuan-or-rubles

USD support fading at a fast pace.

[cypherdoc]

hey FNG,

you oughta listen to this talk by Wences.  he compares and contrasts Bitcoin with gold extensively.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NERAN-89j8M&feature=youtu.be

it's a great take on how money is simply memory as outlined in this paper by the Fed's Kocherlakota:

http://www.minneapolisfed.org/research/sr/sr218.pdf

Wences makes one small mistake in the talk, however, when he said that he'd rather take a bitcoin that hadn't touched Silk Road.  well, after tomorrow, that is a non-issue.

Cheers. I'll give it a listen later today.

More noteworthy news  http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-26/gazprom-ready-drop-dollar-settle-china-contracts-yuan-or-rubles

USD support fading at a fast pace.

thx for that.  how interesting.

USD index dropping slightly.  note:  the only way to strengthen the USD if this gets going is to, in aggregate, cause a selloff in other assets like stocks, bonds, RE, & commodities thus increasing the demand for USD's. 

not...what...they...want.