Where has it dropped 12% - AM1 @ havelock has barely moved .... always expect a slight move down after d-day
Not the Asicminer shares, in fact they gained a bit. He is talking about the Bitcoin/USD price. I think a correlation is quite probably. looks like when BTC/USD price falls, people buy AM shares to hedge their funds. It often happens the other way, AM shares being sold when BTC goes down. I'm guessing this jump in AM price is more likely to be speculation in anticipation of S.DICE owners looking for another good dividend stock in the coming days when they get their payout, which would raise the price of AM, probably by quite a lot if there's good news from Friedcat the same time. The price run up is due to 1 aggressive buyer, not a larger crowd movement. However, I do anticipate some buying after the SDICE payout. |
|
|
|
|
PM me with the qty, you send bitcoins first.
|
|
|
|
|
SDICE is dead. Long live JDICE!
|
|
|
|
Maybe an extreme example will help. If AM shares go up to 100btc each, but the dividends stay at about .025 per week. Is a 5% mgmt fee still going to justify TAT.AM selling for 95btc? Of course not.
I agree with everything you said except this. YES a 5% management fee means TAT.AM is 95 BTC when AM is 100 BTC. Why not? Think about it this way: Eventually all stocks go to zero, no company lasts forever. If you buy and hold AM for 100BTC you'll make X BTC in dividends over the life of the company. If you buy and hold TAT.AM for 100 BTC you will make 0.95 X over the life of the company. Therefore TAT.AM is worth 95% of the regular AM shares. So basically you'll ignore every other point you agree with in order to make one of the points untrue? Your explanation shows a disregard in accepted logic in order to leap to your conclusion. It also implies that TAT.AM can be worth less than zero, which is obviously impossible. You are welcome to disagree or use your own valuation models, but the fact that you choose to do so, does not make your method absolutely better, or more accurate. |
|
|
|
What do you have to say about this:  If I take 5% off the top, I have to take 5% off the bottom to have the same dividend yield. If AM decided to retain dividends for 6mos to do a massive expansion, are the shares now worth 0? 50%? What? Dividends are not the only driver of price, thus dividend yield is an incomplete way to factor it. 5% mgmt fee on divs cannot be directly converted into a 5% less valuable share. It ignores so many factors. How long do you intend to hold the shares? What will the price be when you sell? How much will you have collected in dividends by then? None of those things are absolute, nor is the yield %. You would need to hold the shares for a considerable amount of time to realize a 5% loss in gains (respective to share price) from the mgmt fee. Maybe an extreme example will help. If AM shares go up to 100btc each, but the dividends stay at about .025 per week. Is a 5% mgmt fee still going to justify TAT.AM selling for 95btc? Of course not. |
|
|
|
I don't think I am mistaken, actually, mainly because with higher volume, you don't see that gap between the 2, so obviously the market doesn't value the 5% fee in the same way you do.
Highest Bid for AM100: 0.04130000 Lowest Ask for AM1: 4.55000000 Sure, you might be able to get lucky with limit orders, but right now you're looking at AM100 being worth less than 91% of AM1. If you actually want enough volume to move an entire AM share, you would take AM100 down to 0.04080001. If you want to move multiple shares, you are SOL. AM1 is too new to use as a price reference. It only has 525 shares currently, as it grows, it will get closer to the other whole-share sources. |
|
|
|
Please explain to me where having a 4.3BTC share in Asicminer will pay for itself in a reasonable amount of time? 4.3BTC / 0.025BTC per share per week = 172 weeks... Why shouldn't LabRatMining bonds be worth the same ridiculous mark-up as Asicminer? You're missing the point that some people don't want to have to host hardware and want to enjoy the benefits of mining. I'm not only offering you the benefits of mining, but at a 7 fold rate compared to most other bond issuers. You have to consider the fact that mining isn't a sprint, it's a marathon. Don't ever purchase anything looking for it to pay itself off in 2 weeks...
AM is not the topic here. Their IPO was at .1, there's no markup to speak of. Could you answer my questions please? |
|
|
|
I will be surprised if even the first 20k are sold, ( the ones already sold are sold "privetly" )
Those that were sold were sold through BitFunder, not privately. A few were done privately as to prove to Ukto that there was interest in the company. Thank you btcmonkey and bargraphics for explaining things to people who choose not to read or can't find what I've typed. 1. Do bondholders own the equipment they are paying for? 2. Will there be any transparency for purchase prices? Proof of purchases? 3. Does the company have any assets or experience to justify such a large fundraising effort? 4. What pool will you mine on to prove your work? 5. Why on earth would anyone want to buy into stale BFL orders? Why order from any company that has not demonstrated reliable delivery? 6. When does mining start? 7. What's in it for Lab Rat? |
|
|
|
Velacreations has the right idea, and is even trying to teach you, forgoing his own advantage.
Believe what you want, but those who can do better math, and those who are better at trading will just benefit more.
You sound like MPOE-PR.  Despite her cold candor, default stubbornness, and abrasive approach, people could learn a lot from her. The 5% mgmt fee on dividends does not directly devalue the share by 5%. The math is not as simple as that.
Share price and yield from dividend are not proportionally correlated. For example, it was not long ago that AM shares were half the price of today, and paying the same divs. Divs did not double, yet the price did.
Yes, there more plenty more factors affecting the share price difference than just the dividend difference. But in the conversation you were responding to, the difference of opinion wasn't about other complexities, it was about what difference the 5% reduced dividend should make to the share price, and Velacreations was mistaken on that point. The point is that taking 5% off of the share price as a means of factoring the mgmt fee, is incorrect. |
|
|
|
Kind of rational. You get a 5% discount in your dividend.
well, then the price should be 5% of .5% (.025%) less, cause that's the difference. 4% > .025% No, because the 5% reduction is to all dividends, not just that one! well, ok, so let's look at dividends for the year (4.3, 30% APR). 5% of that is .0645 btc. 4% price difference doesn't make sense when your fee is 5% of the dividend (usually less than 1%). Only the last sentence is correct. 5% price difference is what you should expect on a 5% dividend fee. Every time you get paid, you get 5% less. Velacreations has the right idea, and is even trying to teach you, forgoing his own advantage. The 5% mgmt fee on dividends does not directly devalue the share by 5%. The math is not as simple as that. Believe what you want, but those who can do better math, and those who are better at trading will just benefit more. Share price and yield from dividend are not proportionally correlated. For example, it was not long ago that AM shares were half the price of today, and paying the same divs. Divs did not double, yet the price did. |
|
|
|
|
[HAVELOCK] [AM100] [PAID] 60.28895028 BTC to 250,172 shares, 24099 satoshi per share
|
|
|
|
|
First dividends have been paid!
Please join us in IRC to chat about ASICMINER or anything else related to Havelock and investing. #HavelockInvestments on Freenode!
|
|
|
|
Just bought in. As diff increases, choking off GPUs and even FPGAs, I'm betting on value to climb in short term, and dividends to rise in long term. Is that a reasonable assumption based on your expertise?
My position is biased in that I hold a lot of ASICMINER shares and I am on their board of directors. So you can infer that I am confident in the company  That's a given of course, I'm hoping you can spell out the particular pattern of growth you might anticipate. I expect them to continue to release hardware a step ahead of the competition, and to grow their farm to maintain a healthy % of the network as difficulty increases. |
|
|
|
Just bought in. As diff increases, choking off GPUs and even FPGAs, I'm betting on value to climb in short term, and dividends to rise in long term. Is that a reasonable assumption based on your expertise?
My position is biased in that I hold a lot of ASICMINER shares and I am on their board of directors. So you can infer that I am confident in the company |
|
|
|
|
Another quick update to let everyone know that Havelock has made a new IRC channel #HavelockInvestments on FreeNode.
I'll be lurking in there if you need me, or if you want to come talk shop with us.
|
|
|
|
|
Dividends have been paid at 0.00024099 per share!
|
|
|
|
|
Today's dividend will be 0.02536694 per share!
I will post again once I have the funds cleared and have paid it out.
Thanks!
|
|
|
|
|
Dividend will begin processing at the top of the hour. 0.00024099 per share!
|
|
|
|
The fact is 0.01687 Dividend
*ignore required ftfy |
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
