In response to SealsDeals.info & the bet-bot in SwC chat being down, I would like make the following statements:

1)  I think the decision to do so was childish and unprofessional. 

2)  I am personally embarrassed that users have coins stuck in the "credit" part of bet, with only the following msg to explain when their funds will become available again: 
"If you sent chips to bet, or if bet owes you chips, don't worry, you'll get them in a day or two at worst."

In response to this, I have asked ST6 not to allow any withdraws from bet at this time. 

3) I hope very much that someone makes a competing staking site.  I make myself fully available to consult for free or post publicly my thoughts on trust systems and the other tricky parts. 

Reminder:  150k+ krillament today.  5 bitcoin prizepool.  I think 13 of us showed last time, sort of love the krill-game in that we see how many show up this time

o/u 17 or so?

I'll see you guys there, I've fallen off recently, losing my #4 krill spot to #7: 


Krill Rank: 7
Krill: 288468

Pretty sure Vegan is still in the lead site-wide, over a milly I think.  (holy shit that's a ton of krill!)

and now a 3000 chip krillroll (50k+) today!  

see you guys there, I can't pass up a 3 coin freeroll

 * * * * Android App Update * * * *

devices will ask you today if they haven't already.  It's ok, it's from us.

ST6 reports that the cert issue from earlier today may have been a bug and not an attack.

It is always best to stay vigilant, but this does appear to be a non-issue at this point.  Anyone who hits the site and gets a bad cert please report publicly.

 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

We're currently under what is called a DNS hijacking attack just past midnight Las Vegas time 2014-02-26. This is where the attacker tries to hijack all traffic going to the sealswithclubs.eu domain to redirect to his server, thus putting himself in the middle of all communications. He'll likely be using this to gather user credentials to compromise the account at a later time.

If you're using the browser, you will see an invalid certificate message if you're susceptible to this attack. It is critical you do not proceed after seeing this message. It'd be best to just wait it out. For an example of these messages on common browsers, you can see the image here: https://i.imgur.com/4dTNmhr.png

If you're using the Desktop Client, be certain you're using the newest v0.2.18 version which can be found at https://sealswithclubs.eu/pc-client/. The newest version will refuse to communicate with the bad guy's server, which will protect your credentials. However, this may temporarily prevent you from using our site. Again, it's best you just wait it out. If you want to try to fix the issue on your end, make sure you following the install instructions for the client carefully:
> Please follow these install instructions carefully to prevent any issues:
> 1. Remove any copy of the old client by deleting its folder.
> 2. Download the extracting archive below.
> 3. Find where you have downloaded the file to.
> 4. Double-click the file from the download location. On Windows, a black
> console window will pop up while it extracts the client. On Mac/Linux,
> extract the file using the archive tool.
> 5. When step 4 is finished, you may see a swc_client folder in the same place
> you ran the downloaded file from. If so, open that folder.
> 6. You’ll see a swc_client program with an icon of a seal. Double-click that to
> run the client. Do not move that program out of its home folder or it may not
> be able to communicate with the server properly.

DO NOT use the Android client until a new update is pushed. It is the most suceptible client out of all three to fall for the attack without warning.

If you worry that you have been compromised, you can e-mail support@sealswithclubs.eu specifically stating your account name and that you'd like to have the account temporarily locked. As long as your e-mail matches your account, we will fulfill you request. As soon as it is safe, we will e-mail you back when we've unlocked the account again for you.

- - X @ SealsWithClubs
GPG/PGP Pub Key: ​http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=1Rse0Xzt
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (MingW32)
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=Qjrw
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Right from ST6:


We're currently under what is called a DNS hijacking attack. This is where the attacker tries to hijack all traffic going to the sealswithclubs.eu domain to redirect to his server, thus putting himself in the middle of all communications.

If you're using the browser, you might see an invalid certificate message if you're suceptible to this attack. It is critical you do not proceed after seeing this message. It'd be best to just wait it out. For an example of these messages on common browsers, you can see the image here: https://i.imgur.com/4dTNmhr.png

If you're using the Desktop Client, be certain you're using the newest v0.2.18 version. This one will refuse to communicate with the bad guy's server, which will protect your credentials. However, this may temporarily prevent you from using our site. Again, it's best you just wait it out. If you want to try to fix the issue, make sure you following the install instructions for the client carefully:
> Please follow these install instructions carefully to prevent any issues:
> 1. Remove any copy of the old client by deleting its folder.
> 2. Download the extracting archive below.
> 3. Find where you have downloaded the file to.
> 4. Double-click the file from the download location. On Windows, a black
> console window will pop up while it extracts the client. On Mac/Linux,
> extract the file using the archive tool.
> 5. When step 4 is finished, you may see a swc_client folder in the same place
> you ran the downloaded file from. If so, open that folder.
> 6. You’ll see a swc_client program with an icon of a seal. Double-click that to
> run the client. Do not move that program out of its home folder or it may not
> be able to communicate with the server properly.

DO NOT use the Android client until a new update is pushed. It is the most suceptible client out of all three to fall for the attack without warning.

Tournament=BIG BTC 20000 GTD!!
Number=111413
BuyIn=475+25
PrizeBonus=20000
Entrants=40
Start=2014-02-23 18:00:08
Place7=Trilo87 (0)
Place6=TrustMeImaDr (1400)
Place5=tellerium (1600)
Place4=Puddingpops (2200)
Place3=Blueberry (3000)
Place2=martingaler (4600)

Stop=2014-02-23 21:33:23
Place1=tysonten (7200)
 

starting in ~1hr

no late reg

20 coin guaranteed prizepool

#DontGetShutOut

hall of records:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=271942.0

1)  MTT suggestions noted.  The "euro time" is where we overlay the hardest in the past, so I have to go very slow in that period.  Note that I do plan to add during that time, it is clearly "dead" for MTTs and that's not cool.

2)  but you know what is cool, the BIG BTC 20 bitcoin guarantee we snap off each and every Sunday.  By far and away the biggest prizepool each week for bitcoin pokers. 


GLGLGLGL all!

what does that mean?

look for this low post-count user randomly posting support in many thread:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=251245;sa=showPosts 

to be "+1'ing" the latest Ponzi.

#CallingItNow

-------------------------------------------------

1)  "Mini" versions of the BIG BTC and other supporting MTTs will come with time.  I know you guys are likely sick of me saying that, but I can be nothing but honest because time will show the truth.  I have a problem with over-promising SwC technology because I'm so excited to play it.  That being said we are working harder than we ever have on server-side improvements.  Please wait.  I know that's not what you want to hear, but it is truth.

2)  Friday "4.20k" 190+10 will pop off today EARLIER THAN SOME OF YOU THINK BECAUSE I MOVED THE START TIME OF THE FRIDAY-AMENT -->  5:00 PST / 8:00EST As most of you remember it was the 5k, and it has overlaid like a hooker with heroin problem. I reduced the guar slightly and +1'd the 420's in the lobby and moved it back a few hrs in hopes to increase the field size.  we'll see.  May even decrease field size first week because it's earlier, i.e. everyone will show up late for it this week.  (sorry in advance, it's in the interest of progress)

glglglglgl all / as always hit me up micon@sealswithclubs.eu for any reason
[support@sealswithclubs.eu for any account related issue]

This is accurate.  I assumed the 1st post would be "current ratings"

I will read this entire thread starting now.  really curious more than anything.  Seems like a brand new model.


At first I read this as "SBO locks in a price and does both your deposit and withdraw at that price"

but then now I think it's something like "for every 1 bitcoin we give you 5k SBO units and upon cashout you give us 5k SBO units we give you 1 bitcoin"  

can't quite figure it out still.  The site looks very professional and it's possible whoever is operating it may have a novel idea here and I just don't quite understand it yet.



As for the rating system, IMO it seems the community love the very simple bitcoin-in-bitcoin-out | no dox | fast withdraw | long history of paying winners | never any fiat conversion books like bitbook / cloudbet / nitrogen.  There is something to be said (maybe B rating?) for btcsportbook / btcsportsmatch / anonibet and formerly bitcoinsports.eu (although to be fair I have not read that thread either and do not know what the issue is with bitcoinsports, I simply see ppl are pissed off)

the ones that aren't quite as pure, maybe taking longer to pay, offering less games, or requiring more personal info but still do function as a legitimate sportsbook I think should deserve a "B" level rating.  IMO reserve F for scams.

glglglgl to all the degens in this thread.

Every sharp in Vegas bet Seattle.

1)  fucking donkdown.   my source of endless fail.  Please don't go there until I figure out wtf is wrong. 

2)  blind structure for Sunday 1k is in need of some levels IMO.   I am not opposed to crowd-sourcing a newly updated "normal" structure and applying it slowly to our bigger MTTs.  Just be warned, this won't go fast even once I have the structure in hand and approved by most.   It will certainly help to have something ready to fire.    obviously 150-300 a/25 was missing throughout.  This will be corrected, eventually.   Feel free to fire out some structures that will work properly for both 1500 and 3k chips. 

agreed with those being my top 3 at this time.  I don't bet on sports very much (compared to my poker play) but I like to keep tabs on the industry. 

can't quite figure out why the op rated SBObitcoin top dog.   after a quick look around, a bunch of things scare me.  "we use same conversion for deposit and withdraw to bitcoin" seems to be a fundamental flaw.  that coupled with the fact they use pinnacle sports somehow makes me quite likely to never deposit even something small to try it out.  Sounds like many layers of shenanigans.  would love to hear the OP's take on the site.  I saw they have pokers too.

because the data is money with bitcoin, SwC must be 100% security focused.  This can lead to something seemingly simple like a structure change requiring more steps than it may appear from a player perspective. 

note that we are working hard to fix how agile we can be. 

I will need to receive full forum gratification from lluboski for 11am PST / 2pm EST 20 chip deeper then we can move along to the 1k structure

Pretty embarassing that many are same operator. 

if anyone is familiar with them, can you please lead a "report to moderator" charge at the ones that are simply copy-pastes?  at least try the one-thread-per-site ruling, although akin to nailing Capone for tax evasion, may be the only way to stop this nonsense. 

either way I will keep fighting it, this place is too important for these early stages of btc gambling.

regardless of the content of the ponzis, they are breaking the "one site per thread" rule by copy-pasting the scams to new domains almost daily. 

I'm all for "games and rounds" housing them all for now also if making a new sub is too hard.

It seems clear the mods don't care very much about the gambling section. 

I'm thinking it's time for a forum demonstration.  A protest if you will. 

First thoughts (just spit-ballin' here.  Feel free to focus this / throw out other ideas):

-- 10x posts with the same subject.  "The People of Marketplace/gambling demand removal of Ponzi and Ponzi-esque Sites"
-- other points to list:
---- it appears only few operators are opening many new sites to clutter the front page
---- it appears many of the ponzi sites are copy-pasted to new URLs almost daily
---- the Ponzi game of "next guy needs to send for me to get paid" is not classified as a gambling game.  It is something similar for sure, but we don't want it here.

-- possibly doing this in meta as well to get some attention to the growing problem

1)  20 chip Deeper 300 GTD runs for 1st time in < 1 hr (11 am EST / 2 pm PST for us 'muricans)   the "deeper" = 5k chips / normal structure / see if the lack of 150-300 here is offset by moar chips.  (harder to edit structures than starting chips for us ATM)

2) on the subject of krillroll start times, Freemoney set the rotating regeneration times from the get-go and I like it - yes, I too am occasionally mad I miss free equity at odd times for me, but when developing a rewards system for all players, we must think about all players.   I may be waking up early or going to bed late for the 150k krillament

wrong, SwC player numbers are unaffected.  (very small % of overlap between a poker player and a ponzi player.  Maybe Tennis only...)


Vortuarackne, I appreciate your arguments.  They seem to come from a rational place.  Consider this question:

how does a Ponzi usually end? 

Are expectations managed properly? 

Think about the expectations players have with other legitimate gambling games like bitzino, just-dice, sealswithclubs, and bitcoinvideopoker. 
(not expectations in terms of win-or-lose, but expectations like the rules of the game, how payouts will be handled, how the game is scored, when it ends, etc)

I agree that a game that clearly states "You only get paid if the next guy sends coins"  and a clear "reset" time is defined (maybe after 24 hours of no sends) could function as an "honest ponzi" (and I agree that would only be similar to a Ponzi, not an actual ponzi where the entire underlying business is misrepresented) maybe we need a name like a "hope next guy sends"

either way, it's not like the other gamblings.  sub-cat for sure.  Nevermind this appears to be only a handful of operators copy-pasting sites.