I'm not as eloquent as most of you here, but I must respond...
I just read through the entire post, and I am thoroughly entertained, as well as disgusted. Capslock's post says it very well, and maybe I'm missing something here, but how exactly is it "painfully obvious to anyone with half a brain that BFL is no scam"? I would really like a direct answer to this. I have not seen one shred of evidence, much less proof, that BFL's promise of ASIC's is not a scam and/or a failed project, and furthermore, the atrocious and childish behavior of the COO of BFL doesn't exactly help instill confidence in the legitimacy of the company at this point in time. One can easily defend themself and company without name calling, cussing, etc.
Question. Reading through this thread, I didn't at any point read a post from Micon saying that BFL is an outright scam. Did I miss this as well? It seems to me that the bets he is taking are more of a calling-them-on-bullshit-timeframe kind of thing, with a strong hint of looks-like-they-tried-and-probably-failed, which to me seems entirely legitimate considering the fact that BFL has collected what seems to be millions of dollars in pre-orders, while producing nothing more than excuse after excuse. How is Micon a scammer? How is he a liar?
Please feel free to correct me on any of this as I'm sure I do not have all the facts.
Jay-Z; nut up, apologize to your customers, and tell them BFL fucked up rather than slinging insults, quarters and exuses at the non-believers... or, produce. It seems an apology for the painfully long wait is already in order. If BFL isnt a scam and/or failed project, you owe it to your customers, and their massive amount of lost currency by way of BTC price hikes, lost mining time, etc. to prove that you are legitimate.
B-Mics; I don't have much to scold you for, it seems you have kept a relatively cool head in spite of all the shit that has been thrown your way, but things like joshzerlan.com are unnecessary, and beneath you. It seems a bit of a cheap shot, with high potential for further escalation. If Josh and BFL are scamming the community, it will eventually become apparent, and hopefully these people will go to jail, and/or be sued for everything.
ok, phew, just had to get it out, and now, happy betting you jive mothas!
Criticism for JoshZerlan.com accepted & noted. I can explain a little more why I responded as such: Nevermind the fact that I think Josh Zerlan works for a scammer company, this guy is a textbook bully. He's an internet bully and a real-life bully. He tried to intimidate me personally by making an aggressive show to deflect my CES recordings of his hardware. I wanted to show him that not only will his bully-deflection tactics not work, but I will use them directly against him to amplify my point and draw more attention to the fact they have not shipped and showed up to CES empty handed. Maybe this is not warranted, maybe this is childish, but I watch the culture of BFL-influenced mods censoring anti-BFL postings, I watch Josh Zerlan run around these forums talking mad shit to all skeptics in a completely unprofessional and abusive manner, all while holding USD millions in pre-orders and gambling it on R&D to create the product they promised. Wasn't going to let him push this story to the side once again. Right or wrong, I choose to fight this bully with a fact-based video account of his own actions and his own words hosted on a domain of his first & last name. |
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What do u think about the bumping pics published?
do you consider this a picture of bumping?  and Josh has made no update on the BFL forums about bumping, which started almost 1 week ago. These pictures did not need to involved 3 airplane flights and a guy from Australia to acquire - why didn't they post these months ago, or just take them with the android devices they use for mining and upload? Seems a lot like CES to me - all show, no substance. No ASIC chip, nothing mining at fast speeds, no pix of the actual bumping... nothing at all. |
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I will bet 10 coins that this statement is false:
"Butterfly Labs will deliver at least 3 working ASIC devices to customers by 3/20/2013, confirmed via pictures that are mining at an efficiency greater than 350 Mhash/Joule"
If anyone is a serious believer in BFL & their ability to deliver 3+ units 1 month from now and wants to bet on it, I will bet the other side.
We can use C's escrow tool, idk if we even need C anymore - just a trusted escrow
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I guess I just don't understand this show at all. Seems very much like CES to me, bring nothing, show nothing new, try and dress it up as nice as you can, but no substance of any sort. Why didn't the ppl working at the Kansas City BFL shop just take those pictures months ago? Cliffs: -- many more fan-boxes -- many power supplies -- many devices that could theoretically be used in production of ASIC miners -- a sweet airplane flight! ...but -- no ASIC chips -- no devices hashing at high speeds -- no picture of chips, bumped or not -- deafening silence on bumping facility I would have thought the latest delay tactic would have been employed by now, but now even the delays have delays. I am betting no ASICs by 3/20 in my betting thread ATM for anyone that is still confident BFL will ship and wants to bet. |
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1) love this site, love whoever is behind it.
2) The constant coding of new games is awesome, and keeps me personally checking back all the time to see new improvements.
3) "autoplay" is absolutely brilliant when applied to all games, but with videopoker it actually makes it fun for me to play, really scratches that degen itch but without me having to constantly make the same decisions. API so dooglus can write his own set of rules IMO and get that bad boy up to 99.6% payouts.
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Pretty cute that every post of mine here gets deleted. Sick censorship. Gmaxwell, I presume.
I suppose it's bitcointalk policy not to speak ill of BFL, a company with $10M in btc community monies that haven't shipped an ASIC yet.
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We snap off 500-chip freerolls all February long. Why not?
jump in, the tourney starts in about 5 minutes, these are 1x use code
FFF-VLENIZWA!R
FFF-S*GPZY9^N3
FFF-V!6#SPXN&J
SO YOU HAVE TO BE FAST
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There are two tournaments in the lobby, including the Monday PLO, that are in the past. There is no Monday PLO scheduled for tonight, even though it's Monday.
1) PLO MTT was messed up / rescheduled for 23 minutes from now. I'm regg'd. 2) FFFF dropping in ~ 10 min: FFF-*J1GVDEI2R FFF-N3RAVZ*%SJ FFF-D5GUQJN4XV FFF-FJ2U#AI9M& |
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Pretty sure it's not a requirement to mention that something is a pre-order in a web banner ad. If it is, please link to the relevant laws stating so.
stop legaling it up, it's extremely misleading and no matter what you bet on that is clear. potential buyer thinks "I buy X gh/s for X using X power" and starts doing calculations. have you read the initial press release? vague and scammish sounding IMO: http://www.prweb.com/releases/2012/6/prweb9611889.htmby contrast let's take a look at a press release from a real btc company with a real round of funding, Bitpay: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/bitpay-expand-bitcoin-processing-space-190000470.htmlfirst sentence lists investors. No piece of evidence alone is enough to convict, but it all keeps adding up more and more scammy with each new piece of info. Sonny, Josh's conduct at CES, Pre-order dishonesty, vague press release, constant missed deadlines with pre-order marketing spending same or increasing... |
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part of the fraud that is going on right now even if BFL ships tomorrow is the advertising:  no mention of a pre-order, just as if you get X hashing power for $X. The google pay-per-click ads are also shadily listed as such. At the very least, BFL is likely using pre-order money to fund R&D. I mean, what did they need this "private venture capital" investment for? http://www.prweb.com/releases/2012/6/prweb9611889.htm <--- press release from july 2012 announcing, vague reference to "private venture capital" and then a huge headshot of money collection as "pre-orders" = this company just takes in monies and hasn't sent anything back. It would be Luda to send them any more $ at this stage before a product gets shipped. |
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Firstly, much of BFL's ads don't say pre-order to start: secondly, they are at the very, very least guilty of using pre-order money to fund R&D. I have long said that I may in fact lose my bets if BFL gambles hard with btc-community pre-order money and wins - but I have this feeling that they are not close to winning, and they are making the final money-grabs before too many ASICs are out there from legitimate suppliers. |
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♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣
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FFF-49S6NM7P! (add a T)
FFF-2RY5*7J6H (add a percent sign 2nd to last)
FFF-XGQFP5%3E (the last character is one of the keys on your phone you rarely use, non-numberical)
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totally blew it.
oh, and the timestamps - they are in server time, aka ET, and I am on the west coast, aka PT. I think they always look like they are ~3 hrs old?
Pretty sure you can still figure out math. lol -1 lolz FFF-ST32WR*5VX FFF-8*NMA9IHYP FFF-8D5MRQ4NXI fresh ones I swear!!!! |
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Your tenuous grasp on reality is pretty hilarious Micon. Lets look at your arguments here:
so you pretty much say whatever I just called you out on then go on what appears to be a drug-fueled rant of some sort then i guess go back to posting on BFL forums about how hot the bumping was today. you got a lot of balls comin' round these parts. And I'm talking about Las Vegas. You don't come to the gambling capital of the world looking to scam, it's just sort of frowned upon where I live. You are holding tons of btc community monies. You promised product ~8 months ago. You are trolling up a betting thread, all while telling some tall tale over on the BFL forums about how the fanboxes are going to get chips, but you just can't take any pictures of them and, well, just keep shipping the pre-orders like a bauce! your posts are dripping in desperation and deep-fried in denial. Re-reading one of Navarro's best posts, Josh Zerlan exhibits a multitude of these traits: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/spycatcher/201301/are-you-being-manipulated-social-puppeteeroh, and if you are still racking that noodle for why I would ever register your full name and rank all over google for your pathetic scammer ass it's because after meeting you in person, it appears you are nothing but a bully. And I've been watching a lot of PSAs recently, and the sentiment out there is extremely anti-bully right now. Always hip with the times, when I see a bully like you speaking some bullshit about some vaporware at CES, I'm going to call you out on it. Had you been a gentleman scammer, showed me your wares like what you are supposed to do, skeptic or no, gave me your best snake oil salesman song & dance, then I wouldn't have blown you up like I am currently doing. Clearly it seems to be irritating you. Perfect response to you trying to bully me at CES 2013: 4400+ views! http://youtu.be/UlWrmIqGs3Y?t=2m41s |
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But Josh changed the terms of the bet quite a bit. For one thing he changed the end date from this month or Mar 15th to December 31st 2013.
Also his device is transparent. He is saying: "No, I will not take your carefully thought out 20BTC bet. Instead I will counter with a different bet with different terms for 100x the amount you offered. And if you don't take it, then you are a liar.".
First of all this smells like a bluff. But nonetheless noone is going to take a $50k bet with basically no terms in a couple of posts in a forum thread. It's posturing. It's obvious BS.
But I suppose it isn't obvious to everyone.
 Since Josh Zerlan of JoshZerlan.com decided to have bumping day #2 on what used to be a very civil betting thread until he devoted much time to trolling here, instead of doing whatever it is he is supposed to be doing to get millions of dollars of pre-ordered mining hardware shipping, I'm going to have to destroy his latest desperate denial-filled post line by line: Of course he's back peddling and changing his tune now you literally say the opposite of what is true, and scream it over and over until you think you are right. Since you started trolling, instead of backpeddling, I instead bet 25 more coins that you are a liar and running a scam company. You are off the reservation bucko. And again instead of backpeddling, I keep asking you personally to bet 20 coins on the statements you made here: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/692-bfl-asic-status.html and you just keep refusing. You can win a cool $500 from me (and from JoshZerlan.com, the official sponsor of this bet thread) that it's painfully obvious to anyone with half a brain that BFL is no scam. yes. Painfully obvious BFL is legit. They have collected millions, shipped no ASICs, and continue to take pre-orders, as many as who wants to order. All day long. Across all marketing channels. Painfully obvious. Anyone with half-a-brain. I seriously don't think you are reading the same thread as the rest of us. He's trying to astroturf his earlier stupidity by covering up the fact that he's claimed BFL is a scam and that we are going to run off with everyones money.
 Bryan Micon is a liar and a scammer, end of story.
I think that's more than enough proof. Case closed. If he really believed what he was saying, as you say, he would jump at the chance to win nearly $60,000 US from me, since I am willing and able to escrow 2000 BTC.
From: Planet Earth To: Josh Zerlan Subject: Reality Body: you have not proved that you control 2000 coins in this thread yet. Micon has offered you a 20 coin bet at terms from your words: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/692-bfl-asic-status.html and you refuse to take it. Hell, I'm even willing to do 100 BTC but he won't take that bet, either, because he knows it's a losing bet and everything he's said is a lie.
He'll do 2000 or 100, but Josh Zerlan won't bet me 20 coins at my terms which are based on his statements. |
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Is it possible to your way of thinking Spike that BFL could eventually ship AND be a scam?
This is a sincere question btw, you seem a likable enough fella, I'm just curious.
I simply cannot rectify their excuses as they do not add up for me. I believe they had nothing done when they began taking orders, never had the ability to ship in 2012, and have unfairly disadvantaged both FPGA vendors and competing ASIC vendors with their dishonesty.
this is a very good question, and will help solidify my beliefs about BFL: 1) they totally used pre-order money as R&D monies. The first whatever didn't work, so they gambled again. 2) http://news.yahoo.com/butterfly-labs-announces-next-generation-asic-lineup-054626776.html This is a troubling press release. Vague about who invested. 3) Sonny was convicted of Mail order fraud in 2010. this doesn't mean the company is not gambling hard to try and make ASICs - I believe they are - but I also believe they are inept and doomed to fail. 4) the massive, and I mean massive advertising buys scare me the most - you haven't produced a product yet, but are taking in as much $$$ as you can. that always smells scammy to me. |
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4) Josh Zerlan has backed down from a 20 coin bet that is within his posted timeline. This should scare most of you with pre-orders: that the man posting the timeline won't bet 20 coins on the timeline he posted. Oh yeah, and the 2nd independent ASIC maker started mining. Meaning even if BFL did ship on the fairytale timeline that Zerlan is telling, they would come to market 3rd. and remember Josh won't bet on it.
It doesn't scare me. Josh isn't taking your bet on principle. You've been calling BFL a scam all this time, that they were just going to take everyone's money and never deliver anything. And now, it appears you're changing your mind, and you believe BFL WILL deliver something, just that it might be delayed further. Josh wants you to admit that you were wrong about BFL being a scam and that you now only want to bet on how soon they will deliver. So, you're trying to call Josh out on the ship date. Josh is trying to call you out on BFL not being a scam. And neither side is willing to give. You both have valid points that the other side isn't willing to take the bet, because, theoretically, either bet would match the beliefs of both of you. But both of you want the other side to admit that they were wrong about their initial beliefs. I respectfully disagree. 1) based on Josh's own posted timeline, he should easily win the bet I offered. 2) based on JoshZerlan.com, if Josh Zerlan believed his own timeline he would likely jump at the chance to win 20 of my coins. Ask yourself that one - why wouldn't he just take my monies? |
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You are. This is not about delivering in a certain timeframe. This about about BFL being a scam.
100 BTC that BFL will deliver ASICs. I only put the 2013 timeframe on there so there's a definitive endpoint to the bet, even though it will be over long before then. YOU are the one that is unwilling to make a wager, you want to add caveats and escape clauses, not me. I want a simple wager:
100 BTC says BFL will deliver ASICs in 2013. Simple, easy and to the point. The fact that you won't bet any significant amount to back up your claim is a giant sign above your head screaming that you are lying. You won't make the bet though, because you know you will lose. So your statements about BFL being a scam are a lie, which makes Bryan Micon a liar.
1) You posted this timeline yourself 2/5/13 on the BFL forums: [ https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/692-bfl-asic-status.html#post13172 ] Here's a quick update:
We are expecting the chips on the 8th. The Fab is still maintaining that it will be the 8th, but it could be earlier than that. We are planning on the 8th though, we will have the chips sent via overnight express to our bumping and packaging facilities in California (We are not going with the North Carolina facility, as they could not meet our timeline). We are negotiating with the California bumping facility to get tooled up and ready to complete the bumping process as fast as possible. We are targeting them for being ready to bump the chips on the 14th, but it could be as late as the 18th. It should not take more than 24 hours to bump all our chips and get them to the packaging facility, where it will take another ~24 hours (probably less) to package them where I will likely be couriering them to our assembly facility.
At that point it will take less than a day to assemble some boards, where I'll send the boards to a couple test facilities to make sure everything is kosher. This step will probably take 1 - 2 days, but may take less as we tweak things. Assuming everything checks out (and we have no reason to believe it won't), we will give the assembly house the go ahead to mount the rest of the chips, which will take less than 24 hours, where I will carry them back and/or overnight express them to Kansas City and we will begin assembly and shipping operations.
So it's looking like the week of the 17th for shipping, probably a bit later in the week unless the bumping house really pulls it together, we might be able to ship as early at the 18th, but that is pretty optimistic, more likely is around the 22nd or so.
2) I'm giving you until March 15th to get 5 working BFL ASIC chips in the hands of customers, meeting your publicly advertised specs. I am willing to bet 20 coins, as I have demonstrated in this thread 3 or 4 times, most recently just now. 3) I have backed down from a Vague, 2000 coin bet from Josh Zerlan that gives BFL all of 2013, 4) Josh Zerlan has backed down from a 20 coin bet that is within his posted timeline. This should scare most of you with pre-orders: that the man posting the timeline won't bet 20 coins on the timeline he posted. Oh yeah, and the 2nd independent ASIC maker started mining. Meaning even if BFL did ship on the fairytale timeline that Zerlan is telling, they would come to market 3rd. and remember Josh won't bet on it. |
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shipped here as well. I sent 25.00042000 thanks for being a gentleman on this wager MrTeal. Whoever wins, I think you, me, mrb, and sgtspike have set a really good example how to approach and interact with someone to place a legitimate, escrow'ed bet. |
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