to better gauge the size and amount of pre-orders, I feel this thread is relevant to discussion: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/690-13-jan-2013-asic-update-discussion-thread.htmlReplies: 162 Views: 16,506 boy are the boys 'birding this thread hard. IMO Josh felt backed into a corner after CES 2013. The people demanded a timeline, so he came up with this post: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/692-bfl-asic-status.html With this timeline: Week of January 13th
Travel to packaging facility for final prep and walkthrough
Confirm travel plans and trip details with lead ASIC engineer for trip to fab
Week of January 20th
Final assembly facility prep
Leave for fab at the end of the week
Week of January 26th
Final chips roll off the line
Grab suitcase, a BMW or a Peugeot and make a break for the airport, Ronin style (You can see Tom about 6 minutes, 20 seconds into the video)
Arrive California at chip packaging plant
KC facility starts assembly process of units to drop PCB into
Week of February 3rd
Chips packaged
Packaged chips sent to assembly house
Assembled PCB is set for final testing and MCU programming
Notify users to start sending their FPGA units or BTC for trade in participants
Bulk assembled PCBs arrive in KC, we start dropping PCBs into waiting units
Boxing/labeling for shipment
Week of February 10th
We implement the 1/3 shipping plan en mass
1/3 of our assembled units will go to new orders in FIFO
1/3 of our assembled units will go to upgrade orders
1/3 will be randomly selected from both groups
We descend upon the Post Office, DHL, UPS and FedEx like a horde of angry locust And we've already had no-picture substrate floor time, so it appears to me he is in this thread Manti Te'o-ing it up as he goes along. One man's opinion. |
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No Micon, I do not want to make the same bet you and MRB made. That bet is also based on whether they meet specific MH/Joule requirements, which I do not want to bet on. I want to bet on them delivering an ASIC device that works (creates valid hashes for the Bitcoin network) by the end of 2013, regardless of speed or power usage to at least two forum members that prove they are running (video or pictures or ??).
If you believe they aren't going to deliver (which is what you keep stating over and over again), you shouldn't have any problem with this.
When making a wager, both sides must agree. If you look at mrb's and my discussion, a standard practice is to suggest terms, then refine on both sides until both parties agree. To have a 20 coin bet with me I would like: -- statement of a certain Mhash/Joule that proves that this BFL ASIC is a significant step up from the current top miners - that is the point of ASIC - to hash the proof-of-work problem much faster and more energy efficient than current FPGAs, as I understand it the current top dog - they claim ~ 20x-30x as fast right? current FPGA top metrics around 25 Mhash/Joule? Let's find a number you and I are both comfortable with it - as your statement reads, BFL could ship you some thumbdrive that creates 1 valid hash using your CPU and you would win the bet. Also there is no need for taunting - I won't say to you "why won't you bet me at same terms if you are so sure BFL will ship an ASIC based on specs they describe?" - I will simply go back and forth and list out the terms that would make me accept the wager. What about a statement such as 10x shipments at 5x current top Mhash/Joule ratings? And excuse the newb-ness to mining, but what is top Mhash/J ATM? it is FPGA cards? |
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https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/713-josh-have-fun-california.html#post10830That GPS is from a 1976 Baron twin.
We had a good meeting with both the substrate facility and the packaging facility. We are still working out the details for the bumping, but it should be resolved before the end of next week. We didn't see the factory floor of the substrate facility and the packaging facility would not allow pictures, though it was pretty cool. no pictures. Will be interesting to see how this timeline progresses: Week of January 13th
Travel to packaging facility for final prep and walkthrough
Confirm travel plans and trip details with lead ASIC engineer for trip to fab
Week of January 20th
Final assembly facility prep
Leave for fab at the end of the week
Week of January 26th
Final chips roll off the line
Grab suitcase, a BMW or a Peugeot and make a break for the airport, Ronin style (You can see Tom about 6 minutes, 20 seconds into the video)
Arrive California at chip packaging plant
KC facility starts assembly process of units to drop PCB into
Week of February 3rd
Chips packaged
Packaged chips sent to assembly house
Assembled PCB is set for final testing and MCU programming
Notify users to start sending their FPGA units or BTC for trade in participants
Bulk assembled PCBs arrive in KC, we start dropping PCBs into waiting units
Boxing/labeling for shipment
Week of February 10th
We implement the 1/3 shipping plan en mass
1/3 of our assembled units will go to new orders in FIFO
1/3 of our assembled units will go to upgrade orders
1/3 will be randomly selected from both groups
We descend upon the Post Office, DHL, UPS and FedEx like a horde of angry locust
He is supposed to be in Peugeot by week of 26th.
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Micon, I'll bet 20 BTC 1:1 that BFL delivers a working ASIC product to multiple end customers (i.e., people who are able to post pictures or other proof of their ASICs running) by the end of 2013.
Let's just use the same thing I'm betting on with mrb: Statement Butterfly Labs ASIC is real and will achieve 350+ Mhash/Joule by June 30, 2013 Details At least one ASIC-based Butterfly Labs product will demonstrate 350 Mhash/Joule or more, at stock frequency/voltage, at room temperature, for a sustained period of time of at least 60 minutes, with appropriate current-measuring equipment on the device's power input(s). Power consumption shall be measured by adding up current from all the device's DC inputs (12V jack, USB cable, etc.) It will not be measured "at the wall". The purpose of this bet is to avoid wildly varying efficiencies of power adapters and computer hosts. This bet applies to all ASIC-based products that Butterfly Labs will deliver to the general public. This includes the "SuperComputer" family (Jalapeno, Single SC, Mini Rig SC), as well as possibly any unannounced product that the company will be shipping by June 30, 2013. The legitimacy of the ASIC-based Butterfly Labs product(s) will be established as follow: the equipment must be reported to have been received by 10+ good standing forum members, of which: - 3 must have each personally measured the Mhash/Joule of the devices - the other 7 may not have necessarily measured the Mhash/Joule, but must have provided reports of having received working devices that seem to validate the existence and plausibility of the devices belonging to the above 3 These 10 good standing forum members do not necessarily need to report on the same product (eg. 10 Single SC). It may be a mix of products (eg. 6 reporting on Jalapeno units, plus 3 reporting on Single SC units). Examples This statement is true if, for example, the Single SC achieves 60 Ghash/s at 171 Watt or less (60000/171 = 351 Mhash/Joule) as measured with a clamp meter on its 12V DC input and 5V (USB) input. This statement is false if all Butterfly Labs products fail to achieve 350 Mhash/Joule, or if Butterfly Labs fails to deliver any product at all. Positions Micon disagrees with the statement. SgtSpike agrees with the statement. |
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Micon: I haven't had time to set up Mono to run Casascius, I will try to do this tomorrow. It sounds here like you're suggesting that 6 plus 3 is 10...
Actually I meant to add "plus one reporting on the Mini Rig SC". no problem, we're both gentlemen, and we have a 10 coin bet as of now. we'll both hit the hash soon. I'm locked and loaded, just making sure you generate the same one before i fire 10 coins out into wherever. it's pretty easy once you download and install / pretty str8 forward. as long as your end generates the same BTC address we are good. |
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Still waiting for you to take me up on my bet.
20 BTC says BFL ships a working ASIC product to multiple end customer by the end of 2013.
Jump in my mrb thread and I'll do 20 coins with you after we make terms and use Cassius escrow system |
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yes, very sorry for the "max connections" issue this morning. if you are quick, you will get this next free 100 chips:
Jan-RACX1N2!L%
remember - these are 1x codes - they get redeemed VERY FAST because it's just a free .1 bitcoin
I call it "fastest finger"
but - I plan to drip them across this thread and all other Seals social media outlets [ @sealswithclubs fires them out as does facebook.com/sealswithclubs and reddit the /sealswithclubs ]
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in email contact with casascius to figure out this escrow system. First "be a payee" escrow invitation code said not valid when i clicked "generate payment invitation"
we'll figure this out and it's likely user error on my part. I'll send casascius the screencaps if needbe. I consider that mrb and I have a 10 coin bet at this stage and we are both gentlemen so working out this escrow part IMO won't take very long and there will soon be 20 coins sitting in the blockchain with both of us holding our half of the private key and casascius holding both.
very cool when we get it working, then we can go bigger once we go through this escrow process and I can fully understand it.
there was a 1-character error in the copy past from Casascius to me. the "generate payment invitation" worked, and I have both a payment invite (very long code) and a bitcoin address that looks normal. Casascius - i send mrb the very long payment invitation? then he enters that in the "be the payer" in his casascius-escrow tool and gets the same btc address and we both ship to that? Yes, send him the payment invitation and the address. If: 1. You have an escrow invitation code from me, AND 2. You have a payment invitation code you generated or received from the other party, AND 3. Both of you agree that the escrow invitation you have and the payment invitation combined yield the same bitcoin address in the "be a payer" screen... THEN it is safe to pay that address. Whoever has all three parts (escrow invite part A, escrow invite part B, and the payment invitation) can compute the private key on the "collect your funds" screen. You can tell what code you have, since they'll start with "einva", "einvb", or "einvp". the ones with a and b came from me (mrb got a, Micon got b) and you guys produced the one with p. If you decide you are the loser, give your escrow invitation code that I originally gave you to the person who is the winner, so they have all three parts. You can publish the address if you want everyone to see the funds, but that's entirely your call. I don't need the address unless a dispute arises that gives rise to my need to know. 1) shipped mrb my "new payment invite" code (don't worry, I didn't donk it off completely and send him my einvb-code) 2) generated the btc address & I msg'd to mrb privately. As I understand it the system is very secure and we could post this btc address publicly and see when both of us send coins to it, there will be 20 total in it, and community can watch the winner scoop the pot. I want smarter technical users that I trust to tell me it's OK first before doing this. 3) casascius if all this goes as it should this is an awesome cryptographic solution to a common community issue: we want to bet each other with as little outside trust as possible. Also this makes appointing and arbiter before the bet necessary, another good practice in wagering. |
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Added this info to the OP: Original Butterfly Labs Asic Announcement: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=87934.0 [6/16/2012 OP date] elux's BFL scammer thread, concerning Sonny Vleisides: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110805.0Sonny Vleisides "intro" thread as BFL_Sonny: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110868.0Codinginmysleep Sonny Vleisides interview: http://codinginmysleep.com/interview-with-sonny-vleisides/------------------------------------------------------------- Info still needed:
-- Full company info of BFL
---- Exactly company name
---- State of incorporation
---- Officially listed principals of buttefly labs
-- Any sourcing info for where they are buying the ASICs from.
If anyone wants to answer my "newb" questions about BFL I'd really appreciate a link or a PM, it will help me fill out the OP and JoshZerlan.com: - Has BFL ever released where they plan to buy ASIC chips from? has it always been a "corporate secret" ? - Has anyone ever toured the facility? Do we know if they have a facility? - Is there any physical address for this business that is known? |
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in email contact with casascius to figure out this escrow system. First "be a payee" escrow invitation code said not valid when i clicked "generate payment invitation"
we'll figure this out and it's likely user error on my part. I'll send casascius the screencaps if needbe. I consider that mrb and I have a 10 coin bet at this stage and we are both gentlemen so working out this escrow part IMO won't take very long and there will soon be 20 coins sitting in the blockchain with both of us holding our half of the private key and casascius holding both.
very cool when we get it working, then we can go bigger once we go through this escrow process and I can fully understand it.
there was a 1-character error in the copy past from Casascius to me. the "generate payment invitation" worked, and I have both a payment invite (very long code) and a bitcoin address that looks normal. Casascius - i send mrb the very long payment invitation? then he enters that in the "be the payer" in his casascius-escrow tool and gets the same btc address and we both ship to that? |
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in email contact with casascius to figure out this escrow system. First "be a payee" escrow invitation code said not valid when i clicked "generate payment invitation"
we'll figure this out and it's likely user error on my part. I'll send casascius the screencaps if needbe. I consider that mrb and I have a 10 coin bet at this stage and we are both gentlemen so working out this escrow part IMO won't take very long and there will soon be 20 coins sitting in the blockchain with both of us holding our half of the private key and casascius holding both.
very cool when we get it working, then we can go bigger once we go through this escrow process and I can fully understand it.
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Yep I agree to at least a 10 BTC bet. I summarized our bet below (note the addition of "These 10 good standing forum members..."). Please quote my entire post to officially approve this version: Statement
Butterfly Labs ASIC is real and will achieve 350+ Mhash/Joule by June 30, 2013
Details
At least one ASIC-based Butterfly Labs product will demonstrate 350 Mhash/Joule or more, at stock frequency/voltage, at room temperature, for a sustained period of time of at least 60 minutes, with appropriate current-measuring equipment on the device's power input(s). Power consumption shall be measured by adding up current from all the device's DC inputs (12V jack, USB cable, etc.) It will not be measured "at the wall". The purpose of this bet is to avoid wildly varying efficiencies of power adapters and computer hosts. This bet applies to all ASIC-based products that Butterfly Labs will deliver to the general public. This includes the "SuperComputer" family (Jalapeno, Single SC, Mini Rig SC), as well as possibly any unannounced product that the company will be shipping by June 30, 2013.
The legitimacy of the ASIC-based Butterfly Labs product(s) will be established as follow: the equipment must be reported to have been received by 10+ good standing forum members, of which:
- 3 must have each personally measured the Mhash/Joule of the devices
- the other 7 may not have necessarily measured the Mhash/Joule, but must have provided reports of having received working devices that seem to validate the existence and plausibility of the devices belonging to the above 3
These 10 good standing forum members do not necessarily need to report on the same product (eg. 10 Single SC). It may be a mix of products (eg. 6 reporting on Jalapeno units, plus 3 reporting on Single SC units).
Examples
This statement is true if, for example, the Single SC achieves 60 Ghash/s at 171 Watt or less (60000/171 = 351 Mhash/Joule) as measured with a clamp meter on its 12V DC input and 5V (USB) input.
This statement is false if all Butterfly Labs products fail to achieve 350 Mhash/Joule, or if Butterfly Labs fails to deliver any product at all.
Positions
Micon disagrees with the statement.
mrb agrees with the statement.
I agree to this wager. In contact with the big C to figure out where to send coins and what cryptographic keys I need to save for myself / send to him. |
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This thread occasionally pays 100 chips (.1 btc)
put it in your my account "redeem code"
Jan-DCNU7%9*A!
1st one gets it! always a race!
That code was redeemed by atomicdog at 2013-01-16 05:16:43 for 100 chips. Apparently I missed out! Code must have been published somewhere else to be redeemed seconds before it was posted here? Either that, or Seals's clock is off by a few seconds compared to bitcointalk.org heh I feel we need to test this again. 100 chips fastest finger Jan-SN18HWQJM5 100 chippies this is one of the few threads on here that just keeps paying out! |
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What is more interesting, the bet or the casascious' new escrow system?
Anyway another 5000BTC bet would have been cool.
The cool part to me is that once I set them up, I don't have to do a damn thing unless they get into a dispute and both refuse to release to one another. Since my "cost" is so low, if the idea takes off, it should totally reduce the overhead and friction of doing bitcoin transactions with untrusted parties. No risk I'll lose their funds to a hacker, virtually no overhead, no need to charge 1% just to generate a couple of codes. That's a big deal! Imagine if exchanges worked that way, and had a severely limited ability to actually run with your bitcoins. The Bitcoin world would be nothing like we know it today. IMO very small fee for the arbiter, similar in scale to the bitcoin miners transactions fees Also tyvm for the private help to set me up with what after I initially download and install looks like a really cool solution for one of the early trust issues this community gets into frequently. Casascius is actively solving cryptography issues that we will likely use for years to make bets like this. I have sent Casascius privately what I think he needed to have from my end, but likely it may need something else, and I haven't sent coins anywhere yet so there is that. mrb - Can we consider to have a 10 coin bet at this stage? I'm sure in the next 24 I'll be able to figure this out with Casascius' help and fire my 10. After we do this bet and I understand the escrow system let's talk bigger. tytytytytytyty for this new escrow product & your original work, the physical btc coins (I keep 3 1btc physical coins in my collection of things that I never want to throw away because I'm still an irrational human and this small collection of physical items make me happy. I think I bought them from you personally at one of the many conventions I "sneak" into in Vegas) |
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Escrow invitation part A sent to mrb.
mrb can now generate the payment invitation and the escrow-controlled bitcoin address.
Micon, I can privately e-mail you the escrow invitation part B, no PGP required. It's not top secret, the only person it's valuable to is mrb (besides being valuable to you for validating that the bitcoin address he generates is actually under escrow control).
i totally trust you with this 10 coins. give me a hash, tell me what to save in my notes as keys, etc. brb gotta change diaper! |
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Bryan,
Bring your laptop to our next cryptoparty (this thursday) or bitcoin lunch mob (today) and I'll show you how to set up your pgp keys and OTC setup.
Oh, and I'll let you get another close up look at those empty *metal* BFL cases too 8*
barring my young daughter not changing my schedule, I'm in for Thursday. 2) what types of btc business are you into now? did you learn your pirate lesson and work for good now? or still evil?
I work for you. So... really don't know how to answer the good/evil question  remember when you wrote "Pirate is not a Ponzi" in your signature and worked tirelessly funneling more coin to him? |
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This thread occasionally pays 100 chips (.1 btc)
put it in your my account "redeem code"
Jan-DCNU7%9*A!
1st one gets it! always a race!
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https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/690-13-jan-2013-asic-update-discussion-thread-12.html#post10590Depends on your perspective... BFL has ~12,000 chips coming that will put out 7.5 GHash each, for a total of 90,000 GHash. The first week of BFL's shipments will equal Avalon's first batch. Unless your BFL order was paid for in June, Avalon doubling the hashrate won't mean that much.
But whatever. I'm content with BFL's performance for the most part. Ask me in 2 or 3 months how the various manufacturers have done.
12,000 chips @ $1,300 each = $15.6M in pre-order monies this is not science. This is 1 post on the BFL forums.
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